| jjmcd
| #startmeeting Docs Project Meeting - Agenda: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs_Project_meetings 00:03:02 <zodbot_> Meeting started Thu Sep 10 00:03:02 2009 UTC. The chair is jjmcd. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 00:03:02 <zodbot_> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
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| jjmcd
| two minutes - he's not gonna show
| 00:03
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| jjmcd
| #topic Roll Call
| 00:03
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| * danielsmw
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| * jjmcd is here
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| * bcotton is here
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| * rudi is here
| 00:03
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| * jjmcd needs more windows to do this
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| jjmcd
| #topic Last week's action items
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| jjmcd
| danielsmw to package an editor for Scribite - where are we? 00:04:46 <danielsmw> jjmcd: I surveyed what would work with scribite and what had what features and such
| 00:04
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| danielsmw
| And I've decided on TinyMCE
| 00:04
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| * perspectival is here
| 00:04
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| danielsmw
| the problem I've run into is the lack of guidelines on javascript library packaging
| 00:05
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| danielsmw
| And especially js built with ant
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| danielsmw
| (which I didn't actually know was possible, who knew).
| 00:05
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| danielsmw
| As a new packager, I don't think I can handle that sort of task by myself.
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| danielsmw
| It's not a time thing, just a knowledge thing.
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| jjmcd
| Well, somebody has to be able to help with js, but ant? You may be on your own 00:06:11 <danielsmw> So I can still do it, but I'd really appreciate if someone would be willing to sit down iwth me one day and do it. 00:06:28 <danielsmw> There are actually pretty okay ant guidelines under Packaging/Java
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| danielsmw
| It's the mixture of the two that I don't understand.
| 00:06
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| jjmcd
| Oh, OK. What about whoever wrote those guidelines?
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| danielsmw
| I suppose I could ask them. The JS guidelines are still in draft, though. I'm not sure that there really even are guidelines, officially. 00:07:32 <danielsmw> Personally, it doesn't make sense to package javascript libraries. 00:07:38 <jjmcd> Perhaps having the background of writing the guidelines they will have the perspective to be able to guide you
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| danielsmw
| But I don't understand the going ons of Zikula
| 00:07
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| danielsmw
| and such.
| 00:07
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| danielsmw
| That's probably at least a start, you're right.
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| jjmcd
| Well, Zikula isn't sooo different from other web apps
| 00:08
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| danielsmw
| Okay, then I'll do that this week and hopefully get somewhere by the weekend.
| 00:08
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| jjmcd
| OK, I'll try to be around to offer what little I can
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| danielsmw
| Thanks, jjmcd
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| jjmcd
| Maybe mostly moral support
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| danielsmw
| :-)
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| jjmcd
| The other items are Sparks, quaid and ianweller, none of whom are here
| 00:08
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| jjmcd
| ANything else on action items?
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| jjmcd
| #topic Release notes format changes
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| jjmcd
| OK, here I need some help
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| danielsmw
| I can offer moral support. :-)
| 00:10
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| jjmcd
| We talked about having all changes in tables, and only a little in the way of prose 00:10:48 <jjmcd> But there are a lot of apps that cross beats, and not all apps are covered by beats 00:11:11 <jjmcd> And oh yeah, Alpha was really lame, only about 20% of packages, so we don't really know what we have 00:11:30 <jjmcd> I am proposing to move the tables to the end, and organize them by rpm_group 00:11:50 <jjmcd> With an alphabetical index, people can find anything fairly easily 00:12:13 <jjmcd> Trouble is, it is big, but we don't really know for sure how big
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| jjmcd
| Any thoughts on that approach?
| 00:12
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| * danielsmw likes alphabetical indexes.
| 00:12
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| danielsmw
| Does it matter if it's too big, really?
| 00:13
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| danielsmw
| besides losing some style points?
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| danielsmw
| that might be a dumb question, I'm not familiar with RN so much
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| jjmcd
| I don't think so. We don't add a lot to translate
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| danielsmw
| okay.
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| rudi
| The other intrinsic problem is that the rpm groups don't always make much sense 00:14:51 <jjmcd> rudi, you got that right, but if I turn my head sideways, I can generally see how someone could imagine they belong the way they are 00:14:57 <danielsmw> that's true. lots of things belong in more than one category in reality, so the groups are occasionally confusing.
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| jjmcd
| Which leads me to believe that no grouping is perfect
| 00:15
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| rudi
| Indeed
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| jjmcd
| Example tables/index in http://jjmcd.fedorapeople.org/Download/f12alpha 00:15:40 <danielsmw> Although grouping it my rpm may encourage packagers to more carefully consider the groups they use.
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| jjmcd
| I was kind of thinking that, too
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| jjmcd
| With the index you can find what you are looking for
| 00:16
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| rudi
| Yeah -- it will be good if we can somehow apply some pressure in that direction
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| ryanlerch
| and not create new groups
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| ryanlerch
| or sub groups
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| jjmcd
| Some are just stupid, like Applications/Games vs games
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| jjmcd
| Why do you need both, pick one or the other
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| ryanlerch
| from memory, the networking one was a bit crazy too
| 00:17
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| jjmcd
| The list on fedorapeople is against rawhide. I expect F12 will be smaller than that, but we don't have a feel for how much smaller because alpha was so limited 00:18:23 <jjmcd> Yes, there are amateur radio apps in networking that have nothing to do with networking 00:19:02 <jjmcd> Also, there are some beats with a few minor changes, I think we need to drop them rather than adding fluff 00:20:15 <jjmcd> And I think we need to move embedded development out of development to the specialized group. It really goes with FEL 00:20:34 <jjmcd> even tho it has the word development. It doesn't fit with the rest
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| jjmcd
| rudi, are you pretty much there on installer?
| 00:21
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| rudi
| Well, I haven't got anything new :)
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| jjmcd
| I think I may have put some placeholders in there but not turned it into real prose
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| rudi
| I'll take another look
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| jjmcd
| I did go through the feature pages and tried to spatter stuff through the beats
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| jjmcd
| We were supposed to have the 'big' pots out yesterday
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| jjmcd
| So I intend to do what I can tomorrow and Saturday and then try to make pots saturday or sunday. The beats are nowhere near where I'd like, but L10N is waiting on us
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| rudi
| I'll pitch in to help with that
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| jjmcd
| I appreciate that rudi
| 00:25
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| jjmcd
| I'll be out of town Friday
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| rudi
| NP
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| jjmcd
| But except for a few interruptions, I'll be around otherwise 00:26:07 <jjmcd> The good news is we don't have to do all that po madness from 11 so it should be a little easier
| 00:25
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| jjmcd
| although I should check with glezos on that
| 00:26
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| rudi
| Yeah -- check. I'm assuming that we *will* have to do the po madness
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| jjmcd
| #action jjmcd to check with glezos on po's
| 00:26
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| jjmcd
| OK, anything else on release notes?
| 00:27
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| jjmcd
| I'm surprised noriko didn't come over
| 00:28
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| jjmcd
| We have no ke4qqq for Zikula so ....
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| jjmcd
| #topic Status on CC license rollout
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| jjmcd
| ANything new to report?
| 00:28
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| jjmcd
| hearing nothing
| 00:29
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| jjmcd
| #topic Guide needs?
| 00:29
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| danielsmw
| I haz guide needs
| 00:30
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| jjmcd
| Ahhhh, whatcha got?
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| rudi
| I know -- I'm the blocker there
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| danielsmw
| rudi: :-)
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| danielsmw
| a little, rudi, but I can still write content
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| rudi
| Yeppa
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| danielsmw
| rudi: Did I send you an email about what sections I wanted to cover for F11?
| 00:31
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| danielsmw
| I think I wrote it and may not have sent it
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| danielsmw
| doesn't matter, anyway, the point is
| 00:31
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| rudi
| I saw a link in IRC
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| danielsmw
| okay, good
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| rudi
| But you were offline by the time I read it -- I bookmarked it
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| danielsmw
| do you still have the link by chance?
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| danielsmw
| never mind, I got it
| 00:32
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| danielsmw
| https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Danielsmw/Desktop_Guide_tasks 00:32:41 <danielsmw> anyway, my proposal is just to work up through the first 5 chapters for F12 release. 00:32:48 <jjmcd> There is a lot of detail in the desktop beat that I wonder whether it belongs in the desktop guide
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| danielsmw
| jjmcd: I will take a look and see if perhaps it does
| 00:33
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| jjmcd
| thanks
| 00:33
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| danielsmw
| anyway, if anyone has any comment on what I've chosen to be ready for F12, now's your chance I suppose. 00:34:27 <danielsmw> Okay, well, I'll put something out to the list, but that's all I have to say. 00:35:03 <danielsmw> except, rudi: I really don't want to pressure you at all, because it isn't a big deal, but do you have an estimate on when you'll be ready?
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| danielsmw
| with the Xml skeleton?
| 00:35
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| jjmcd
| Looks to me like a good triage
| 00:35
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| rudi
| Still "RSN" -- next couple of days
| 00:35
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| danielsmw
| okay, that's fine.
| 00:35
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| rudi
| (although I know I said that two days ago!!) :)
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| danielsmw
| :)
| 00:35
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| * danielsmw is done with his guide needs.
| 00:36
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| jjmcd
| OK, anything else on guide?
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| jjmcd
| s/?/s?
| 00:36
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| danielsmw
| ??
| 00:36
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| jjmcd
| <---- old PDP guy
| 00:37
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| * bcotton needs to actually work on the RPM guide, but doesnt require any external assistance at the moment (except maybe a cattle prod) 00:37:37 <danielsmw> jjmcd: yeah, i always get confused when regexs aren't closed on the end 00:37:47 <jjmcd> hehe - I think we all have that "the hurrier I go the behinder I get" syndrome 00:38:10 <jjmcd> danielsmw, I'm pretty ancient, esp. as this business is concerned. 00:38:35 <jjmcd> By the way, today is Dennis Ritchie's birthday, seems to me there should have been a lot more press about it
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| jjmcd
| #topic All other business
| 00:38
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| jjmcd
| Anything else for the good of the order?
| 00:39
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| rudi
| Anyone else here able to sponsor new package maintainers?
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| jjmcd
| 5
| 00:39
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| rudi
| (I think ianweller can)
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| danielsmw
| I need one, I'll have to ask ianweller.
| 00:40
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| jjmcd
| lets all gang up on the missing ianweller
| 00:40
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| rudi
| lolz
| 00:40
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| rudi
| We need to get some new packagers sponsored who are going to look after Publican dependencies
| 00:40
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| jjmcd
| Yes, I need to get my badge as well
| 00:41
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| rudi
| That's a current blocker for Publican 1.0 and the new Fedora brand package for 0.44
| 00:41
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| jjmcd
| rudi, how can we find out about that sort of thing?
| 00:41
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| rudi
| I raise it in a meeting? :)
| 00:42
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| jjmcd
| Hey - I just got an email from mister K&R himself!
| 00:42
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| jjmcd
| I suspected as much
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| jjmcd
| It would be nice to be able to identify those things before they become painful
| 00:43
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| rudi
| It only *just* became a blocker
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| jjmcd
| K
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| rudi
| (within the last couple of days)
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| rudi
| But I didn't want to rush the sponsorship process either
| 00:44
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| rudi
| It's important that we do things right.
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| rudi
| But yeah, it's been a few days without any activity yet, so now I'm making noise :) 00:45:23 <jjmcd> Yes, I agree. Seems like there are things we could predict, though. After all, it isn't like we don't have computers and stuff.
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| jjmcd
| OK, anything else?
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| jjmcd
| 5
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| jjmcd
| 4
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| jjmcd
| 3
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| jjmcd
| 2
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| jjmcd
| 1
| 00:47
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| jjmcd
| #endmeeting
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|
