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[http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-xen fedora-xen list].
[http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-xen fedora-xen list].


==== Xen Users Shafted on Fedora? ====
==== Xen Users Future on Fedora ====
{{Admon/Warning|Add ref|Add ref to Qumranet press release in past FWN}}
[[EvanLavelle|Evan Lavelle]] wondered[1] if those who have invested years in {{package|xen}} on Fedora have been "shafted". "<code>Xen</code> isn't flavour of the month around here, but I assumed there were good reasons for that. Now, rather belatedly, I've found" that Red Hat acquired Qumranet and {{package|KVM}}. (FWN #143[2])


[[EvanLavelle|Evan Lavelle]] wondered[1] if those who have invested years in Xen on Fedora have been "shafted". "Xen isn't flavour of the month around here, but I assumed there were good reasons for that. Now, rather belatedly, I've found" that Red Hat acquired (FWN #143[Z]) Qumranet and KVM.
[[NeilThompson|Neil Thompson]] thought[3] not. "Shafted?...I don't think so. We're just in a blip at the moment." Neil pointed out that "RHEL5, which has a number of years left, includes xen - I don't think
Red Hat are going to mess their corporate clients around by removing it. The problem with F8 is that the {{package|kernel}} people could no longer drag an obsolete (2.6.21) <code>kernel</code> around just for xen, and decided to concentrate on helping get it into the mainstream <code>kernel</code>.  This[4] has taken longer than expected."


[[NeilThompson|Neil Thompson]] thought[4] not. "Shafted?...I don't think so. We're just in a blip at the moment." Pointing out that "RHEL5, which has a number of years left, includes xen - I don't think
Jan ONDREJ was also concerned[5] that, "<code>KVM</code> is still not a replacement for paravirtualized machines and I think fully virtualized <code>KVM</code> will be slower like a paravirtualized XEN."
Red Hat are going to mess their corporate clients around by removing it. The problem with F8 is that the kernel people could no longer drag an obsolete (2.6.21) kernel around just for xen, and decided to concentrate on helping get it into the mainstream kernel.  This has taken longer than expected."


Jan ONDREJ was also concerned[2] that, "KVM is still not a replacement for paravirtualized machines and I think fully virtualized KVM will be slower like a paravirtualized XEN."
[[RichardJones|Richard W.M. Jones]] countered[6]
 
"<code>KVM</code> is a great replacement for <code>Xen</code>. It's much easier to use for a start -- no more rebooting into a completely separate <code>kernel</code> hypervisor. As long as you have the <code>virtio</code> drivers in the guest, which is the default for all new Linux distros, performance is roughly the same."  
[[RichardJones|Richard W.M. Jones]] countered[3]
"KVM is a great replacement for Xen. It's much easier to use for a start -- no more rebooting into a completely separate kernel hypervisor. As long as you have the <code>virtio</code>[4] drivers in the guest, which is the default for all new Linux distros, performance is roughly the same."  


Apropros to the topic, but on another list, [[MarkMcLoughlin|Mark McLoughlin]] explained[7]
Apropros to the topic, but on another list, [[MarkMcLoughlin|Mark McLoughlin]] explained[7]
"Para-virtualization isn't always better.
"Para-virtualization isn't always better. <code>KVM</code> uses full virtualization, meaning that it uses the processor's support for virtualization. This means you can run an unmodified guest OS on <code>KVM</code>.  
 
If you can modify the guest OS, then <code>KVM</code> does allow you to use paravirtualization for some performance sensitive operations - so e.g.  we've got <code>pvclock</code>, pv MMU and <code>virtio</code> devices.
KVM uses full virtualization, meaning that it uses the processor's support for virtualization. This means you can run an unmodified guest OS on KVM.
 
If you can modify the guest OS, then KVM does allow you to use paravirtualization for some performance sensitive operations - so e.g.  we've got <code>pvclock</code>, pv MMU and <code>virtio</code> devices.
 
Don't get tied up in marketing terminology - try both and decide for yourself which works best for you."
Don't get tied up in marketing terminology - try both and decide for yourself which works best for you."


{{Admon/Note |Bugz? Ref or cut? Can't view right now. |Sal then said
Support for dom0 is targeted[8] for <code>kernel</code> 2.6.29, but the
Just there is at least one critical problem with Fedora 10 DomU and also one
changelogs[9] for the release candidates don't seem to indicate completion yet.
for Fedora 9 DomU, so Fedora 10 kernels can't run stable. :(
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=478414
What is this?
 
Neil countered[5] "Your problem is with an F8 Dom0...the 2.6.29 kernel that will (hopefully) be in
F11 should sort out most of the paravirt problems, from what I can see."
 
SAL pointed[6] to changelogs.
"I think it will not be in 2.6.29. Although
http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenParavirtOps says that it's planned for
2.6.29, I can't see any progres in 2.6.29-rc2 changelog:
http://www.kernel.org/pub/linux/kernel/v2.6/testing/ChangeLog-2.6.29-rc2
http://www.kernel.org/pub/linux/kernel/v2.6/testing/ChangeLog-2.6.29-rc1
 
I think, 2.6.29 is closed for large changes. Or I missed something?"
}}


[1] http://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-xen/2009-January/msg00031.html
[1] http://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-xen/2009-January/msg00031.html


[Z] http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FWN/Issue143#Red_Hat_Acquires_Makers_of_KVM.2C_Qumranet_Inc.
[2] http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FWN/Issue143#Red_Hat_Acquires_Makers_of_KVM.2C_Qumranet_Inc.


[2] http://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-xen/2009-January/msg00032.html
[3] http://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-xen/2009-January/msg00033.html


[3] http://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-xen/2009-January/msg00041.html
[4] http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/XenPvopsDom0


[4] http://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-xen/2009-January/msg00033.html
[5] http://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-xen/2009-January/msg00032.html


[5] http://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-xen/2009-January/msg00035.html
[6] http://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-xen/2009-January/msg00041.html


[6] http://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-xen/2009-January/msg00038.html
[7] http://www.redhat.com/archives/et-mgmt-tools/2009-January/msg00063.html


[7] http://www.redhat.com/archives/et-mgmt-tools/2009-January/msg00063.html
[8] http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenParavirtOps


[9] http://www.kernel.org/pub/linux/kernel/v2.6/testing/ChangeLog-2.6.29-rc2 http://www.kernel.org/pub/linux/kernel/v2.6/testing/ChangeLog-2.6.29-rc1


==== Migrating Xen DomU to KVM Guest ====
==== Migrating Xen DomU to KVM Guest ====

Revision as of 23:38, 31 January 2009

Virtualization

In this section, we cover discussion on the @et-mgmnt-tools-list, @fedora-xen-list, @libvirt-list and @ovirt-devel-list of Fedora virtualization technologies.

Contributing Writer: Dale Bewley

Enterprise Management Tools List

This section contains the discussion happening on the et-mgmt-tools list

New Release virt-manager 0.6.1

Cole Robinson announced[1] a new Package-x-generic-16.pngvirt-manager release, version 0.6.1.

This release includes:

  • VM disk and network stats reporting (Guido Gunther)
  • VM Migration support (Shigeki Sakamoto)
  • Support for adding sound devices to an existing VM
  • Enumerate host devices attached to an existing VM
  • Allow specifying a device model when adding a network device to an existing VM
  • Combine the serial console view with the VM Details window
  • Allow connection to multiple VM serial consoles
  • Bug fixes and many minor improvements.

[1] http://www.redhat.com/archives/et-mgmt-tools/2009-January/msg00067.html

New Release virtinst 0.4.1

Cole Robinson announced[1] a new Package-x-generic-16.pngvirtinst release, version 0.4.1.

This release includes:

  • Add virt-image -> vmx support to virt-convert, replacing virt-pack (Joey Boggs)
  • Add disk checksum support to virt-image (Joey Boggs)
  • Enhanced URL install support: Debian Xen paravirt, Ubuntu kernel and boot.iso, Mandriva kernel, and Solaris Xen Paravirt (Guido Gunther, John Levon, Cole Robinson)
  • Expanded test suite
  • Numerous bug fixes, cleanups, and minor improvements

[1] http://www.redhat.com/archives/et-mgmt-tools/2009-January/msg00068.html

Fedora Virtualization List

This section contains the discussion happening on the fedora-virt list.

Fedora Xen List

This section contains the discussion happening on the fedora-xen list.

Xen Users Future on Fedora

Evan Lavelle wondered[1] if those who have invested years in Package-x-generic-16.pngxen on Fedora have been "shafted". "Xen isn't flavour of the month around here, but I assumed there were good reasons for that. Now, rather belatedly, I've found" that Red Hat acquired Qumranet and Package-x-generic-16.pngKVM. (FWN #143[2])

Neil Thompson thought[3] not. "Shafted?...I don't think so. We're just in a blip at the moment." Neil pointed out that "RHEL5, which has a number of years left, includes xen - I don't think Red Hat are going to mess their corporate clients around by removing it. The problem with F8 is that the Package-x-generic-16.pngkernel people could no longer drag an obsolete (2.6.21) kernel around just for xen, and decided to concentrate on helping get it into the mainstream kernel. This[4] has taken longer than expected."

Jan ONDREJ was also concerned[5] that, "KVM is still not a replacement for paravirtualized machines and I think fully virtualized KVM will be slower like a paravirtualized XEN."

Richard W.M. Jones countered[6] "KVM is a great replacement for Xen. It's much easier to use for a start -- no more rebooting into a completely separate kernel hypervisor. As long as you have the virtio drivers in the guest, which is the default for all new Linux distros, performance is roughly the same."

Apropros to the topic, but on another list, Mark McLoughlin explained[7] "Para-virtualization isn't always better. KVM uses full virtualization, meaning that it uses the processor's support for virtualization. This means you can run an unmodified guest OS on KVM. If you can modify the guest OS, then KVM does allow you to use paravirtualization for some performance sensitive operations - so e.g. we've got pvclock, pv MMU and virtio devices. Don't get tied up in marketing terminology - try both and decide for yourself which works best for you."

Support for dom0 is targeted[8] for kernel 2.6.29, but the changelogs[9] for the release candidates don't seem to indicate completion yet.

[1] http://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-xen/2009-January/msg00031.html

[2] http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FWN/Issue143#Red_Hat_Acquires_Makers_of_KVM.2C_Qumranet_Inc.

[3] http://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-xen/2009-January/msg00033.html

[4] http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/XenPvopsDom0

[5] http://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-xen/2009-January/msg00032.html

[6] http://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-xen/2009-January/msg00041.html

[7] http://www.redhat.com/archives/et-mgmt-tools/2009-January/msg00063.html

[8] http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenParavirtOps

[9] http://www.kernel.org/pub/linux/kernel/v2.6/testing/ChangeLog-2.6.29-rc2 http://www.kernel.org/pub/linux/kernel/v2.6/testing/ChangeLog-2.6.29-rc1

Migrating Xen DomU to KVM Guest

Migrating a virtual machine from Xen to KVM is straight forward. Well, more or less.

Template:Admin/Warning

Richard W.M. Jones explained[3] how to migrate from Xen to KVM

  • Ensure recent kernel in guest with

"Install a recent Linux kernel in the guest, adjust the configuration file[1], and reboot. You only need Package-x-generic-16.pngxenner if you want to run the Xen PV guest unchanged (ie. without installing a new guest kernel).

[1] 'virsh edit domname', and edit the domain type, <os> and <emulator> fields, as detailed here: http://libvirt.org/drvqemu.html"

And[5] detailed how to take advantage of speedy virtio drivers in the guest. "You have to tell the host to give the guest a virtio network card - change the NIC <model type='virtio'/> as described here: http://libvirt.org/formatdomain.html#elementsNICS

The guest needs to have a relatively up to date kernel which has drivers for the virtio network card - that's included in all recent Linux kernels (virtio_net.ko)."

Richard finally noted[6] "Upgrading to using virtio_blk is very complicated. You have to rebuild initrd, and there's a difficult circular dependency to be resolved when doing this because you need to be using virtio_blk in order for mkinitrd to believe that you need it, although possibly mkinitrd supports some command line argument to override this. I actually gave up at this point.

For newly installed guests, recent anaconda just works everything out for you and puts the correct drivers into initrd."

Mark McLoughlin distilled this into the mkinitrd command in the guest:

mkinitrd --with virtio_pci --with virtio_blk -f /boot/initrd-$(kernelversion) $(kernelversion)

"You only need to do this once. After that, if a new kernel is installed while you're booted off a virtio disk, then mkinitrd will include the modules automatically. "

Emre Erenoglu elaborated[8] "You will also need to specify /dev/vdX on the kernel root= line and make sure your init script inside your initrd triggers the virtio drivers at boot so that the /dev/vdX are created."

Template:Admon/Note

Template:Admin/Warning Mark McLoughlin added[9] a caveat. "Could this have been an x86_64 Fedora 9 xen guest? If so, you probably hit a nasty special case - the F9 x86_64 xen kernel didn't have support for running 32 bit binaries like grub, so the bootloader would never have been installed into the MBR. That works fine for pygrub, but not with KVM's real BIOS."

[3] http://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-xen/2009-January/msg00041.html

[4] http://wiki.libvirt.org/page/Virtio

[5] http://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-xen/2009-January/msg00048.html

[6] http://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-xen/2009-January/msg00053.html

[7] http://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-xen/2009-January/msg00054.html

[8] http://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-xen/2009-January/msg00058.html

[9] http://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-xen/2009-January/msg00078.html


Libvirt List

This section contains the discussion happening on the libvir-list.

oVirt Devel List

This section contains the discussion happening on the ovirt-devel list.