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| * Topic for #fedora-board-public is: Next public Fedora Project Board meeting: 2009-02-03 UTC 1900 | ||
| * Topic for #fedora-board-public set by stickster at Wed Jan 7 18:48:51 2009 | ||
| quaid_moderator | ok, starting in just a minute | |
| * EvilBob (n=EvilBob@fedora/bobjensen) has joined #Fedora-Board-Public | ||
| * ke4qqq (n=ke4qqq@fedora/ke4qqq) has joined #fedora-board-public | ||
| stickster | For anyone not familiar with the format, quaid_moderator will listen in here, and relay questions to the #fedora-board-meeting channel. | |
| * inode0 is disoriented by this new moderator | ||
| stickster | Board members are assembled in that channel, and you can join it to watch the discussion. | |
| quaid_moderator | good day everyone | |
| viking_ice | Evening | |
| kc8hfi | whats the agenda? | |
| stickster | We are agenda-free today, 100% Q & A. | |
| -ChanServ- You have been voiced on #fedora-board-meeting by mdomsch | ||
| quaid_moderator | kc8hfi: right, this is driven by questions | |
| viking_ice | How to compete with google and becoming world dominators | |
| * JKnife (n=JKnife@gr33nn1nj4.com) has joined #fedora-board-public | ||
| quaid_moderator | viking_ice: that will segue nicely in to "What is Fedora's purpose?" | |
| * quaid_moderator has a feeling that might come up today | ||
| inode0 | is cowsay code or content? | |
| * ke4qqq raises the question "What is Fedora's purpose?' and hands it to quaid_moderator | ||
| herlo | lol | |
| JKnife | isn't it to promote the use of opensource software and opwn standards while freeing computers of horrid file formats? | |
| quaid_moderator | ke4qqq: got it | |
| herlo | it was bound to be asked :) | |
| quaid_moderator | thx, ke4qqq, I wanted to ask and comment but I'm supposed to moderate! | |
| ke4qqq | figured I might as well get it out of the way | |
| quaid_moderator | all I know is I didn't envy that question being my responsibility to answer when on the Board :) | |
| ke4qqq | though it's likely to be a long one....so others may want to go first | |
| nirik | I'll bring up the question I always do: "What is the news on the 'incident' last year, and when can we hear more? I was hoping there was going to be some news, but I haven't seen anything" | |
| stickster | quaid_moderator: spevack has doubled up before, it's not unprecedented. :-) | |
| ke4qqq | true....and you have the multiple personalities thing already going - two diff. nicks | |
| quaid_moderator | stickster: heh, that would be my caveat -- I didn't think it was the Board's to answer then, and I don't now :D | |
| quaid_moderator | ke4qqq: this is the same personality | |
| quaid_moderator | you all should be happy diauq isn't here moderating | |
| * spoleeba lurks | ||
| * edneymatias (n=edney@ns1.prognus.com.br) has joined #fedora-board-public | ||
| * quaid_moderator passes spoleeba walking slowly from his emeritus parking spot | ||
| thomasj | nirik +1 | |
| JKnife | ohh i have a question, why did yall use UTC for the meeting time instead of RedHats main office local time? (like y'all do with releases?) | |
| quaid_moderator | JKnife: I'll queue that, because the "official Fedora time" question is still open | |
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| quaid_moderator | but I do think folks are good about using UTC, so you might get a -1 troll :D | |
| JKnife | lol | |
| edneymatias | :) | |
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| * v0idang3l (n=angel@116.193.168.5) has joined #fedora-board-public | ||
| * viking_ice raises the question "when is Fedora going to get it self a live pony and give everyone a free ride on that pony when a pony ride is needed/wanted" | ||
| viking_ice | hehe | |
| JMakey | Technically, it is generally less complicated to convert between one's local time and UTC than between one's local time and another's. Less knowledge is needed. | |
| quaid_moderator | viking_ice: btw, do you want me to ask about world domination? | |
| kc8hfi | and competing with google | |
| * MostafaDaneshvar (n=MostafaD@unaffiliated/mostafadaneshvar) has joined #fedora-board-public | ||
| JKnife | quaid_moderator: Ok, serious question, Is RedHat ever going to do main stream ads for Fedora(like on TV or Radio)? | |
| viking_ice | quaid_moderator: nope.. | |
| quaid_moderator | JKnife: got it | |
| ke4qqq | JKnife: do they even do mainstream ads for RH? | |
| quaid_moderator | never have, fwiw | |
| quaid_moderator | but Fedora is different, eh? | |
| JKnife | ke4qqq: I thnk it would be something cool todo | |
| * quaid_moderator wants a series of "Because we do it the Fedora Way," that call back to Sean Connery in The Untouchables | ||
| EvilBob | I have a question, I recently heard about the Red Hat Summit in Chicago. It is my understanding that there will not be a FUDcon tied to this event that is in the middle of the coasts allowing contributors from the plains and midwest more of a chance to get to a FUDcon. Why was this decision made. | |
| ke4qqq | I'd love to see truth happens on tv, but the unwashed masses wouldn't get it. | |
| JKnife | heh | |
| inode0 | EvilBob: bad scheduling in the cycle, not the best result combining them in boston, etc. | |
| quaid_moderator | good question EvilBob, got it | |
| JKnife | They could start minor ads on local tvs as a trial run and see how it does then move to a bigger scale | |
| * quaid_moderator thinks inode0 has the gist, but wants to see Paul answer formally | ||
| JKnife | o/ EvilBob | |
| inode0 | will encourage us to do FADs instead :) | |
| EvilBob | inode0: thanks but I want to hear the board as part of the computer and software industry snub the midwest themselves | |
| quaid_moderator | FAD @ Summit is a great idea, perhaps | |
| * SMParrish has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) | ||
| ke4qqq | quaid_moderator: I'll bite - lets hear the purpose/goal for both the community and distribution | |
| * viking_ice raises hands and asks a serious question: Why don't we replace the offical GA release with an updated one from Fedora Unity and archive the GA release when they have released an updated GA release ? | ||
| EvilBob | inode0: NOTHING happens in with in an 8hour drive from here | |
| inode0 | quaid_moderator: did you get my question, which may have sounded frivolous but was serious | |
| spoleeba | viking_ice, isnt that more of a release engineering question | |
| spoleeba | viking_ice, the board's mandate isn't to micromanage the details of releases | |
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| inode0 | EvilBob: you want to organize FUDcon in the twin cities? | |
| EvilBob | inode0: i want ANYTHING to happen where I can drive to it | |
| * MostafaDaneshvar (n=MostafaD@unaffiliated/mostafadaneshvar) has left #fedora-board-public | ||
| viking_ice | spoleeba: how so ? this affect all fedora's end users but ok | |
| inode0 | We've really been encouraged ... but paying union rates to colocate with something like the Summit is wildly expensive | |
| spoleeba | viking_ice, the board does not micromanage all decisions | |
| spoleeba | viking_ice, this is a bottom up organization | |
| quaid_moderator | inode0: still looking, can you repost | |
| EvilBob | inode0: the lack of events in this area is what made being an Ambassador a waste of time for me. | |
| inode0 | quaid_moderator: is cowsay code or content? | |
| spoleeba | viking_ice, fesco/releng set time tables for release milestones.. a respin would be yet another mileston in the release process | |
| quaid_moderator | inode0: can you enlighten me what that is just in case I have to explain? | |
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| inode0 | quaid_moderator: the question really is how can I look at a package and classify it as code or content | |
| viking_ice | spoleeba: Has fedora unity been asked if they could not manage that/those milestone(s) ? | |
| spoleeba | the purpose discussion is never going to go away | |
| inode0 | cowsay is a perl script and a library of cows | |
| JKnife | so wait.. Fedora has mixed unknown goals? shouldn't the goals be one f the first things done when starting a project to help build the road map? | |
| spoleeba | Fedora as a project pushes the boundary of purpose because its pushing tech | |
| inode0 | I found the OVM business a little unsettling | |
| spoleeba | we arent going to be able to build a 12 foot fence around what Fedora is...all we can do is put little sawhorses around and make a temporary fence | |
| spoleeba | inode0, shrug | |
| spoleeba | inode0, its absolutely no different than what has come before with java | |
| spoleeba | inode0, no different | |
| kc8hfi | what are the 4 F's that marketing have been promoting? | |
| spoleeba | inode0, there was a crap load of open java code out there that we did not ship until we had an open java to intepret it | |
| inode0 | following precedents doesn't make things right - that argument means little to me | |
| spoleeba | inode0, its absolutely right | |
| spoleeba | inode0, same arguments then as now | |
| inode0 | it may be right, following a precedent doesn't make it right | |
| spoleeba | inode0, the argumetns have not changed | |
| mmcgrath | ctyler: Its tricky to say "best" because its subjective. Saying "newest" or "most stable" is more objective. | |
| mmcgrath | both could be best, but they tend to conflict with eachother. | |
| spoleeba | inode0, recycling the arguments..again...doesnt change history | |
| inode0 | spoleeba: it might help if code in this context were better defined (say interpreted code is content without an interpreter if that is the position of Fedora) | |
| inode0 | is that the position? | |
| spoleeba | inode0, you arent going to get a clean definition of code/content | |
| ctyler | mmcgrath: agreed | |
| spoleeba | inode0, C code is intepreted code | |
| EvilBob | As a FEdora user and Contributor I would hate to see a "LTS" branch take away from our already strained manpower resources | |
| spoleeba | inode0, a compiler has to...interpret it | |
| spoleeba | EvilBob, yes... anything like that would require new resources | |
| inode0 | then saying cowsay or ovm is content is arbitrary and that is just going to cause hard feelings | |
| inode0 | if you can't define it, don't use it as a point to discriminate | |
| spoleeba | EvilBob, but..if for example.. I started a company whose busines it was to create a Fedora LTS...and put the resources in place... | |
| spoleeba | inode0, im not descrimating | |
| spoleeba | inode0, its the same as java | |
| spoleeba | inode0, there is precedent.. on a case by case basis | |
| spoleeba | inode0, feel free to cite an opposing precedent | |
| inode0 | yes, you are making a discrimination by classifying a package as content rather than as code and applying different rules to it | |
| spoleeba | inode0, you are attempting to desciminate by making OVM a special case | |
| spoleeba | inode0, i am not saying its content | |
| inode0 | i haven't even stated a position on ovm | |
| spoleeba | inode0, i consistently stated that I view ovm as code | |
| inode0 | ok, if ovm is code that it should be accepted by the guidelines, right? | |
| spoleeba | inode0, no | |
| spoleeba | inode0, for the same reasons that java was not..before we had a java interpreter | |
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| inode0 | fesco rejected it because they said it wasn't code but rather it was content and had to meet an extra burden | |
| spoleeba | inode0, i am not fesco | |
| EvilBob | inode0: forgive me, the OVM issue is the Chitlesh item, is that correct? | |
| spoleeba | EvilBob, FEL..yes | |
| EvilBob | K | |
| * viking_ice raises hands and asks another one ( not sure if that's a micro one as well ) Now with the ability to create a "live" cd should'nt Fedora stop officially site with a specific DE ( Now it's Gnome ) and allow all DE to compete on a fair ground and all reference to "Desktop" would strictly be a generic one ( containing a just a list of all the DE's that Fedora offers ) ? | ||
| inode0 | this "enhances the OS user experience" requirement is for content, not code | |
| quaid_moderator | viking_ice: got it | |
| * edneymatias has quit (Client Quit) | ||
| spoleeba | viking_ice, are you saying the Desktop Spin should be called the Gnome Desktop Spin? | |
| viking_ice | This basically comes down to Anaconda not auto select for an End user a specific DE but rather ask the end user to choose one of the DE's available if he has not done so already on the DVD ISO | |
| EvilBob | quaid_moderator: add to my FUDcon query, WHat funding is available if the community got something arranged in the area. | |
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| nirik | skvidal: it would be: "we plan to release details in a press conference at 2009-xx-xx and will take questions then" | |
| nirik | but I understand not having that. I think it's important to ask. | |
| quaid_moderator | EvilBob: got it | |
| * quaid_moderator notes that is a question probably for the NA Ambassador group, ke4qqq might have a clue what Sep. looks like for budget | ||
| ke4qqq | EvilBob thus far we have paid for FADs out of FAMNA's budget | |
| inode0 | we don't really fund FUDcons if that is what the question it | |
| ke4qqq | propose one, tell us how much you need - we'll try and get it for you provided CommArch give us the money | |
| ke4qqq | no but we are funding FAD @ SCALE and LFNW | |
| nirik | skvidal: I think I would like to hear "it was a failure of: people or packages or process" and I would love to hear that the people or packages or process were fixed both for fedora and anyone using the fedora distro. | |
| quaid_moderator | EvilBob: it could be a shadow conference, but that would require people to be at the Summit | |
| * inode0 thought EvilBob was still talking about FUDcons | ||
| quaid_moderator | EvilBob: the venue is going to be the hardest part, I reckon | |
| EvilBob | ke4qqq: see that is the God Damned problem | |
| EvilBob | ke4qqq: there are NO events to piggy back on any where near here | |
| ke4qqq | you don't need to - someone picked those - we are talking about one at clemson that is attached to nothing | |
| viking_ice | spoleeba: Well yes in Gnome case it would be Gnome Desktop Spin and so for "$DENAME Desktop Spin" and the Desktop wiki page would be a generic desktop page ( just contain list of all the DE that are available in Fedora and sub pages of those DE would be there as in Desktop/Gnome Desktop/XFCE etc.. ) | |
| ke4qqq | the issue is - who can you get to come, what can you get accomplished, and how much will it cost. | |
| EvilBob | ke4qqq: and I am not really interested in a FAD as I understand what a FAD is | |
| quaid_moderator | EvilBob: talk with lcafiero about Lindependence | |
| spoleeba | EvilBob, where is here? | |
| * nirik thanks the board and skvidal. | ||
| quaid_moderator | that is good for tapping the wider distro community | |
| EvilBob | you could hold a FAD in my townhouse complex and I would not bother to go | |
| * mmcgrath admits he has been working on that. | ||
| inode0 | EvilBob: FAD may mean something different now than what you are thinking, maybe not | |
| spoleeba | EvilBob, I'm going to be in Ind for a NSF workshop at the end of March... a workshop on sustainable cyber infrastructure.. its a perfect tie in for a Fedora infrastructure FAD | |
| EvilBob | ke4qqq: I have nothing to do with Ambassadors, ambassador involvement for me in the past has been a major waste of time | |
| quaid_moderator | Fedora Activity Day == FAD | |
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| quaid_moderator | it _used_ to be Ambassador Day | |
| ke4qqq | it's not necessary related to Ambassador - the one at scale is packaging and docs iirc. | |
| ke4qqq | no ambassador involvment except the ambassadors present are involved in other aspects and we provided some funding | |
| viking_ice | spoleeba: This allows for the current ones and new ones that might emerge later to compete against each other on a fair ground as in they them self are responsible to market them self the best DE to use to the end user then the end user choose himself what to use ( based on the live cd experience he got ) | |
| EvilBob | quaid_moderator: thank you for the clarification, still does not make sense to me that one has to ask the FASCo for funding in that case | |
| quaid_moderator | EvilBob: FAMSCo handles the purse strings for Community Architecture | |
| quaid_moderator | EvilBob: also, if you haven't been paying attention, we have a ... uniquely American NA Ambassador regional crew | |
| poelcat | quaid_moderator: Q: What key strategic initiatives is the board pursuing for 2009? | |
| * EvilBob just shakes his head | ||
| quaid_moderator | inode0, ke4qqq, herlo, lcafiero ... darn, who am I forgetting? | |
| quaid_moderator | bpowell ... | |
| quaid_moderator | EvilBob: wtf do you want to ask then? | |
| EvilBob | Nothing | |
| EvilBob | forget I asked anythign | |
| quaid_moderator | roger | |
| viking_ice | quaid_moderator: Did you pick up my question regarding the "Official Desktop" ( as in there would be none ) | |
| quaid_moderator | viking_ice: yes, got it | |
| quaid_moderator | that's the last question in my queue, btw | |
| JKnife | I think just think a tv ad of college students saying stuff like "I use fedora because I support sharing of infromation" then at the end show a fedora logo | |
| ke4qqq | poelcat's question isn't in your queue quaid_moderator? | |
| ke4qqq | JKnife: produce one - tv stations have to air public service announcements for free.... :) | |
| spoleeba | quaid_moderator, speaking of contributors...... here's my question... have we identified target groups to seek out as contributors? Or are we content with a walkin only approach to recruitment? | |
| viking_ice | Well there seem to be lack in of future vision as in as I see it Fedora needs focuse more on the end user ( instead of focusing mainly on contributes ) because the more Fedora is exposed and use the more likely will more maintainers ( or a person that grows up to be a maintainer ) want to join | |
| quaid_moderator | ke4qqq: thx, looking ... | |
| quaid_moderator | poelcat: got it | |
| quaid_moderator | Sparks_Work: got it | |
| quaid_moderator | sorry , that was for spoleeba | |
| EvilBob | thanks F13 | |
| JKnife | ke4qqq: uhmm... I could drive upto UNC if I had a video camera :P | |
| ke4qqq | JKnife: you don't have to do all the work, just lead the effort - others will get involved - though I think it might be more interesting to tap actual contributors rather than just random students. | |
| EvilBob | Would FAD attendees at the Summit have to pay the couple months wages to be there? | |
| herlo | EvilBob: no, we didn't have to pay to be at FUDCon | |
| JKnife | ke4qqq: ohh i have a idea.. have people submit videos to say youtube, we download them and make the video :) | |
| herlo | EvilBob: I don't know if that goes for the actual RH SUmmit events | |
| quaid_moderator | herlo: Fedora track was free to FUDCon attendees, but ... whatever :) | |
| ke4qqq | JKnife: you'd need higher quality, but you should toss the idea up on the f-marketing list | |
| quaid_moderator | herlo: the key is, it was physically possible to be in the same building, but Fedora paid through the nose for the space aiui | |
| herlo | quaid_moderator: yeah, that was kind of my point. I didn't know for sure on that part though because I didn't get to go to the RH Summit :( | |
| * quaid_moderator was a like a one-armed wallpaper hanger at that event | ||
| EvilBob | herlo: so it was a non-answer, thanks for sharing however | |
| herlo | quaid_moderator: yeah, RH Summit seems like a good spot for the FAD format | |
| herlo | EvilBob: anytime | |
| * herlo did get the sarcasm :) | ||
| JKnife | ke4qqq: youtube now has high quality videos... normal youtube http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FL_ZjJgbDmc watch about 10secs then click on "watch in high quality" on the bottom right of the video | |
| quaid_moderator | herlo: I'm going to submit a few talk ideas, see if I can get to go anyway, so I'll pitch in on a FAD | |
| herlo | :) quaid_moderator good call | |
| EvilBob | quaid_moderator: I have a few ideas also | |
| quaid_moderator | EvilBob: sweet | |
| * inode0 thinks separate FADs would be better | ||
| quaid_moderator | EvilBob: if you want to collaborate or just get a readover from someone, ping me | |
| inode0 | why tie them up in a circus? | |
| quaid_moderator | I worked on the committee last year so have seen a few proposals now | |
| herlo | inode0: we should try them both ways and see which works best and gets the most contributors to a FAD | |
| EvilBob | quaid_moderator: that was one thing that was super in 2007 we did not have anything structured for Fedora stuff but we got a lot of things done being able to meet and work out things, | |
| herlo | +1 glezos, that is pretty much what we're shooting for at the SCaLE FAD :) | |
| EvilBob | quaid_moderator: that is where we laid out the May/Oct release target | |
| quaid_moderator | glezos: yeah, I proposed that to mmcgrath for Infra, since that would work there ... I am going to be trying something like that at the SCaLE FAD | |
| glezos | herlo: it's successful, productive and VERY cost effective. Lots of groups of people together. Minimize travel and lodging costs. | |
| herlo | glezos: yes, and they successfully do it at PyCon and other conferences all the time | |
| * viking_ice answers skvidal: Just alone the whole i586 should be enough for justifying the their being or an updated GA existance | ||
| viking_ice | the whole i586 incident | |
| EvilBob | mdomsch: and we will keep doing it until the Board tells us we can't, and in that case we will become something else | |
| quaid_moderator | EvilBob: I gave a magazine a Unity spin, too; darn handy | |
| herlo | stickster: (in f-board), we did hand out Unity discs, but I'd like them to become more official and thus want to press them if it can be blessed by the board. | |
| * quaid_moderator thinks with this question we'll never get to the others, but still has them in queue | ||
| ke4qqq | herlo: press? | |
| herlo | ke4qqq: yes | |
| * viking_ice answers bandwith question is it fair to enduser to download first the official dvd iso then having to update it with x GB instead of just download an updated dvd ISO | ||
| herlo | ke4qqq: as opposed to burn and distribute | |
| ke4qqq | wow | |
| quaid_moderator | I have one from viking_ice, poelcat, and spoleeba | |
| herlo | ke4qqq: it would be something we could do with the 2nd quarter funds | |
| herlo | ke4qqq: let me clarify that | |
| herlo | 2nd quarter after a release | |
| ke4qqq | so if they produce a single respin we only have three months to hand it out | |
| EvilBob | herlo: remember the Re-Spins of Fedora that Unity produces are released under the 3b section of the GPLv2 also so you as an ambassador have no worries about needing to have source available | |
| inode0 | you do real cowsay contents into perl | |
| herlo | EvilBob: k | |
| inode0 | read | |
| ke4qqq | EvilBob: Board says otherwise | |
| EvilBob | ke4qqq: what does the board have to say about what I do? | |
| EvilBob | ke4qqq: NOTHING | |
| herlo | ahh, I should ping FESCO it seems if we ant to go that direction | |
| ke4qqq | EvilBob: board set policy that Ambassadors must have source on hand and able to burn if handing out discs at an event | |
| spoleeba | ke4qqq, Unity is free to rely on that clause for the stuff they distribute | |
| inode0 | nice | |
| EvilBob | ke4qqq: you need to read the GPL | |
| herlo | quaid_moderator: sounds like you should get those guys back on track :) darn that inode0 | |
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| spoleeba | ke4qqq, i do not think the Board decision was about Unity respins..it was about Fedora project media | |
| ke4qqq | right | |
| ke4qqq | but we are talking about burning unity media and handing it out at a fedora booth | |
| EvilBob | ke4qqq: the Re-Spins that Unity Produces are beyond the control of the board | |
| ke4qqq | I don't dispute that, but the behavior of Ambassadors representing fedora at a fedora sponsored both isn't | |
| EvilBob | ke4qqq: and Unity has the guts to keep sources around for 3 years | |
| spoleeba | ke4qqq, the Ambassadors can choice to apply the same policy to Unity respins | |
| ke4qqq | s/both/booth | |
| EvilBob | ke4qqq: and here goes more politics with the Ambassadors that their FiASCo has to decide for them | |
| ke4qqq | that came down from the Fedora Board, not famsco | |
| spoleeba | ke4qqq, again i do not belive the Board said anything about Unity respins | |
| JKnife | quaid_moderator: Why Linux for Fedora and not, lets say *BSD or minix3? | |
| ke4qqq | they didn't specify anything - they said source for the media we hand out | |
| inode0 | the board just said things worked the other way! | |
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| spoleeba | ke4qqq, the issue is the fact that Fedora as a project makes no garuntee or even implies that source will be available long enough for that clause to be effective | |
| EvilBob | ke4qqq: again, please read the GPL | |
| herlo | EvilBob: the GPL doesn't matter in a case where we go further than it states | |
| ke4qqq | EvilBob: I am not sating that it violates the gpl | |
| spoleeba | ke4qqq, if you trust Unity says they will keep the sources around..and you trust them to keep the sources around...then the Unity spins are a completely different situation | |
| EvilBob | ke4qqq: Fedora Unity releases Re-Spins that the Board has NO control over | |
| ke4qqq | I am not saying that the board has any control over unity or would want to. | |
| EvilBob | ke4qqq: the only control they have is our use of the fedora-release package | |
| spoleeba | ke4qqq, the reasoning for the Board guidance..is to protect amabassadors from a situation where they are liable...because we do not keep the sources around long enough for the clause to be invoked | |
| spoleeba | ke4qqq, you can choose to apply the same policy to Unity spins...but dont suggest that the Board made any ruling at all about them | |
| EvilBob | ke4qqq: I am telling you that the Unity Project can release the Re-Spins under a different clause of the GPL than Fedora Project may | |
| ke4qqq | I make no such pretense | |
| inode0 | EvilBob: as just a guy who occasionally distributes media to others I feel an obligation to make source media available in the same manner if desired - that isn't anything unusual | |
| ke4qqq | spoleeba: I am talking about if Fedora presses media, and has Ambassadors handing it out at events sponsored by Fedora - the policy as it sits now is that media we distribute must have source available to burn or already burned - not that it's a requirement of the GPL, but rather a requirement put upon ourselves. not an obligation to Unity or anything else. | |
| spoleeba | ke4qqq, Fedora media != Unity media | |
| ke4qqq | we were just talking about asking fesco to bless unity release as fedora release | |
| spoleeba | ke4qqq, you are free to choose to require the same policy...but you implied it was Board guidance that people use that policy for all media..which is not the case | |
| inode0 | I think everyone understands that spoleeba | |
| ke4qqq | not 20 minutes ago | |
| ke4qqq | spoleeba: I'll dig it up, but iirc, it stated any media we distributed | |
| EvilBob | ke4qqq: I do not believe that Unity has asked or has interest in such a relationship, as one of the founders I know I do not. | |
| inode0 | when thinking about doing this in the freemedia program we planned to include requests for unity source | |
| viking_ice | Is the Desktop SIG a Gnome Desktop SIG or is that SIG made up of members from other *DE SIG's | |
| ke4qqq | it's been discussed on the mailing lists, irc, and even here. herlo just brought up pressing the media | |
| herlo | yeah, I sure did :) and I was pointed at FESCO. | |
| spoleeba | ke4qqq, im pretty sure Unity media never came up in Board discussions over that policy | |
| EvilBob | ke4qqq: that however would be up to an individual if they want to get media bless that is created from the iso images that Unity creates | |
| spoleeba | ke4qqq, the word 'all' still can be contextualized to mean 'all Fedora spins' | |
| poelcat | quaid_moderator: to caillon: the fedora board is often compared to corporate boards at publicly traded companies so I was wondering what goals and objectives the fedora board is setting and how they plan to lead fedora forward | |
| EvilBob | ke4qqq: has nothing to do with Unity at this point | |
| ke4qqq | EvilBob: true | |
| ke4qqq | spoleeba: could be | |
| spoleeba | ke4qqq, im pretty sure i was in the board discussion | |
| EvilBob | ke4qqq: Unity is separate from the Fedora Project for several reasons that go well beyond this one issue | |
| quaid_moderator | poelcat: my side opinion is that being a "bottom up" organization, it's not really comparable to a public board for a public corp | |
| spoleeba | quaid_moderator, its comparable to a non-profit board | |
| poelcat | you can't have it both ways :) | |
| quaid_moderator | spoleeba: not sure if I agree, but that's just me | |
| spoleeba | quaid_moderator, have you ever been on the board for a local social services org..like a soup kitchen.. or a community theature? | |
| quaid_moderator | it's not clear to me that Fedora's strategy is Board set or approved, nor if it should be. | |
| quaid_moderator | spoleeba: not personally, but I'm a NPO brat -- my mom has been working at NPOs for 30 years, been on the board of several, etc. | |
| quaid_moderator | spoleeba: I won't dispute that it acts like an NPO board at times, but I'm not sure that is the right way. | |
| spoleeba | quaid_moderator, you should probablyt have a sit down with her and talk about common problems witn non-profits when they hit the 5 year mark | |
| spoleeba | quaid_moderator, i think there is a crap load of parallels | |
| quaid_moderator | spoleeba: ok | |
| spoleeba | quaid_moderator, which means a crap load of solution-ineering | |
| spoleeba | quaid_moderator, that would apply to our little baby | |
| quaid_moderator | spoleeba: not saying they aren't comparable, but that I'm careful about thinking they are interchangeable | |
| spoleeba | quaid_moderator, and im saying..there are some common growth pains...and ways to deal with them..that we aren't even looking at | |
| quaid_moderator | spoleeba: do you have interest in forming up a SIG-of-sorts to work on that problem? generate a list of "top 10 shit we should be doing"? | |
| inode0 | Question: could the board collect some questions in advance of these meetings so more thought could be given to them before the board discusses them? | |
| quaid_moderator | heck, just a few wiki pages would be a good starting point | |
| quaid_moderator | inode0: got it | |
| spoleeba | quaid_moderator, after you talk to your mom..and if the light bulb goes on for you and she confirms what i just said..sure | |
| inode0 | or would they be interested in giving questions more thought before discussing them in public I guess? | |
| quaid_moderator | spoleeba: don't misunderstand me | |
| quaid_moderator | spoleeba: my thinking is grounded in reality; I've been a volunteer for 30 years, too | |
| quaid_moderator | spoleeba: it is that reality experience ... I'm asking, _should_ the Fedora Board be run and comparable to an NPO board? | |
| quaid_moderator | because I think maybe not, and maybe it is not comparable in important ways. | |
| spoleeba | quaid_moderator, id settle for one important way | |
| viking_ice | ups wrong channel.. :( | |
| quaid_moderator | spoleeba: so that is different than, "What can Fedora learn from the common experiences of volunteer-run organizations at this point in our history." | |
| quaid_moderator | spoleeba: funding is one way ... the definition of an NPO requires a whole slew of stuff to be a 501 C(3) | |
| herlo | as a follow up to the join-fedora page comment in public, there have been many comments in my daily work to improve that. | |
| herlo | but nobody has taken it on | |
| quaid_moderator | spoleeba: many NPO volunteers are doing it in their spare time and unrelated to $dayjob, the same cannot be said of FLOSS communities. | |
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| herlo | one thought would be to get the newly formed fedora-mentors-list off and running and improving the mentoring in each of these areas... | |
| spoleeba | quaid_moderator, how many of our contributors are spare timers? | |
| spoleeba | quaid_moderator, i dont think we know | |
| quaid_moderator | spoleeba: but we do know about NPOs | |
| spoleeba | quaid_moderator, but if you want to say thats a mismatch..youd have to be able to see we dont have enough spare timers | |
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| quaid_moderator | spoleeba: I think the clear point is, the Board is surrounding a group of volunteers who have a much wider and varied source than an NPO, where work volunteers do can be intimately tied to their $dayjob | |
| quaid_moderator | even when corporations send people out to do community work | |
| quaid_moderator | it's just not ever for the business interest | |
| quaid_moderator | where I can assure you RHT seeds Fedora money specifically because it is good business. :) | |
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| spoleeba | quaid_moderator, am i talking about RHT seeded resources? | |
| quaid_moderator | spoleeba: no red herrings, of course RHT is just an example of a corporate community member. | |
| quaid_moderator | there are hundreds of similar examples in Fedora today. | |
| quaid_moderator | spoleeba: note that it only takes one difference between an NPO board/situation and the Fedora Board/situation for what I said to be true. | |
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| quaid_moderator | </meeting> | |
| * stickster has changed the topic to: Next public Fedora Project Board meeting: 2009-03 | ||
| * stickster has changed the topic to: Next public Fedora Project Board meeting: 2009-03-03 UTC 1900 | ||
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