Meeting:Docs IRC log 20081210

quaid	<meeting id="Docs">	11:04
quaid	prepping for a 'bot :)	11:04
* quaid notes Sparks is present		11:04
quaid	quaid esta aqui	11:04
stickster	present!	11:04
jjmcd	et moi, aussi	11:05
-!- danielsmw [n=danielsm@cu-nat-2.clemson.edu] has joined #fedora-meeting		11:05
-!- notting [n=notting@redhat/notting] has left #fedora-meeting ["Ex-Chat"]		11:05
quaid	word to that	11:05
quaid	DocsProject/SteeringCommittee/Meetings#Wednesday.2C_10_December_2008	11:06
* jsmith is here		11:07
quaid	ok, then	11:07
-!- quaid changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Docs mtg - helper docs		11:08
quaid	stickster: we have a Catch-22, don't we?	11:08
quaid	are we going to try to put off some of this work for the virtual hackfest this month?	11:08
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* danielsmw is here but listening in the background		11:11
quaid	word	11:11
quaid	I'm thinking ...	11:11
quaid	we need to really figure that we'll do improvements to our actual self-help-ourselves docs	11:11
quaid	during the group hackfest	11:11
Sparks	yes	11:12
quaid	a good first step is to get the page renaming done	11:12
* Sparks creates a topic portion of the hackfest page		11:12
quaid	which I started on, and can take as a deliverable for next week.	11:12
quaid	that will show the holes better, etc.	11:12
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Sparks	Do we want to do any page migration to xml during the hackfest?	11:16
quaid	hmm	11:16
quaid	if there is an F9 User Guide, why not?	11:16
Sparks	Maybe we can update it for F10 at the same time (or near the same time)	11:16
quaid	yes, another good one	11:17
danielsmw	chiming in	11:17
danielsmw	as for the f9 user guide	11:17
danielsmw	there really isn't that much progress on it	11:17
danielsmw	and a few pages are already on f10	11:17
danielsmw	so perhaps during the hackfest	11:18
danielsmw	we can go ahead and do what sparks suggests	11:18
danielsmw	update to f9, put that somewhere and start converting	11:18
danielsmw	and then go ahead and update to f10	11:18
quaid	ok	11:18
* Sparks writes idea to wiki		11:18
quaid	danielsmw: while the topic is open, have you thought about the F8 push?	11:18
danielsmw	the f8 push to xml?	11:18
* quaid is now off topic :)		11:19
quaid	danielsmw: no, just to a specific wiki place	11:19
danielsmw	quaid: i hadn't though of it, but that can be done. i saw that on the list. we'll just move it to a subdirector called F8-User-Guide or something	11:19
danielsmw	quaid: i'm pretty busy this week, but I can do that first half of next week	11:19
quaid	danielsmw: sure, that works; I can work with you on a good wiki name and such forth	11:20
danielsmw	quaid: its settled then, see you next week.	11:21
quaid	Sparks: what is the hackfest page url?	11:22
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quaid	anything more on this topic?	11:23
Sparks	DocsProject/Holiday_Virtual_Hackfest	11:23
quaid	ACTION: quaid to work with everyone on page naming by 17 Dec	11:23
quaid	ACTION: helping docs worked on during virt hackfest	11:24
quaid	Sparks: I'm moving the 'deadline' on that to 23 Dec, so that is the day for us to have things all finalized before the following weekend comes	11:25
Sparks	works for me	11:26
* quaid living in his Judeo-Christian country will also be distracted from 23 to 26ish		11:26
* Sparks considers renaming the page to something more... appropriate		11:26
quaid	heh	11:26
quaid	Docs_Project_holiday_virtual_hackfest?	11:26
jjmcd	Something like Docs/Hackfest/Holiday/2008/Virtual ?	11:27
Sparks	Yeah, what jjmcd said.	11:27
Sparks	:)	11:27
* quaid kicks jjmcd under the table		11:27
jjmcd	ow	11:27
quaid	heh, oh dear	11:27
-!- quaid changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Docs mtg - F11 planning		11:28
quaid	for example ...	11:28
-!- quaid changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Docs mtg - F11 planning :: CMS		11:28
quaid	jsmith: so you are looking for a CMS that has XML on the backend with CMS wysiwyg editing?	11:28
jsmith	quaid: Yes, in a nutshell	11:30
quaid	I'm looking for collaborators	11:30
quaid	to help find a solution	11:30
quaid	so this is where we have some crossover, maybe ...	11:30
jsmith	I'm happy to share what I've found.	11:30
quaid	let	11:31
quaid	let's gather stuff on CMS_solution_for_Fedora_Project_websites	11:31
jjmcd	Are the objectives documented somewhere	11:32
* quaid adding another section at the end		11:32
quaid	jjmcd: I think that page does it	11:32
* quaid also updates schedule section		11:32
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quaid	laubersm: discussing # Tweak through F10 release	11:35
quaid	# After F10, migrate www. to tweaked solution	11:35
quaid	wooks	11:35
quaid	woops, even!	11:35
quaid	let's gather stuff on CMS_solution_for_Fedora_Project_websites	11:35
* quaid now adding a fourth section for list of possible CMS solutions		11:35
ke4qqq	are we going to adjust the schedule along with that?	11:36
quaid	jsmith: as you see, we didn't really have Docbook as an high ideal, low expectations there basically	11:36
quaid	jsmith: we tried to hack that in to Plone with zero real success	11:36
jsmith	RIght	11:36
quaid	ke4qqq: I did somewhat, reload the page	11:36
quaid	and then tell me what you think about it :)	11:36
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ke4qqq	ok - that at least seems more within the realm of the possible.	11:37
quaid	:D	11:38
quaid	the thing is ...	11:38
quaid	I'd LOVE to train people on using it on Sat. of the fudcon varcamp	11:38
quaid	and it's a fair hackfest to do on Friday, when websites and infra are there to help us solve problems	11:38
quaid	so we could go live with a working yet work to do instance that day	11:38
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quaid	all right, I guess more list discussion is in order :)	11:42
-!- quaid changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Docs mtg :: Task table Docs_Project_admin_tasks_for_experienced_contributors#Task_table		11:42
quaid	it's updated to this meeting so far	11:43
quaid	toolchain next steps is going to be part of the virt hackfest, I reckon	11:43
quaid	how about publican migration?	11:44
quaid	are we trying to load too much in to those days?	11:44
quaid	by we, I mean me, of course :)	11:44
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ke4qqq	I don't know - whats the level of effort/time for publican migration	11:45
Sparks	Well... The Security Guide (in some form) has been changed to XML.	11:45
quaid	ke4qqq: ok, so let's talk about the Installation Guide as an example	11:46
quaid	here is the rough overview:	11:46
quaid	* XML files need to be renamed	11:46
quaid	* Some sections need renaming	11:46
quaid	* Small amount of XML fixes possible	11:46
quaid	* Some new files need creating (small)	11:46
quaid	that's probably it	11:47
quaid	the release notes are already using the Properly_named.xml style	11:47
quaid	so that one would be easier; I was Publican-proofing this time :)	11:47
ke4qqq	Is there documentation on migrating - everything I have seen on publican is starting from scratch	11:47
quaid	ke4qqq: exactly, there is not	11:47
quaid	so we want to self-doc, too	11:47
ke4qqq	that sounds like a half day worth of work easy	11:47
quaid	yes, that's about my estimate	11:47
ke4qqq	more if we have to document along the way	11:47
quaid	we do have the option of pushing this closer to F11, or doing it as a hackfest onsite at FUDCon	11:48
ke4qqq	I'd rather us take a simple doc and do it to write the documentation	11:49
ke4qqq	and maybe do the rest as a hackfest or as we have time	11:49
quaid	do we have a simple doc that would work with?	11:49
stickster	Guys, I'm sorry I've been quiet meeting wise, I just got off a phone call	11:49
quaid	np	11:49
quaid	and now you have to jet!	11:50
stickster	I know, it sucks :-(	11:50
ke4qqq	I don't know - IG may be the simple doc	11:50
* stickster 's whole week has gone this way		11:50
laubersm	ke4qqq: +1 on last - simple one and document now; rest later and expand documentation if needed	11:50
quaid	welll, it helps Publican overall, since other people would want to migrate	11:50
jsmith	stickster: Mine too!	11:50
quaid	ok, let's set the virtual hackfest goal	11:50
ke4qqq	yeah mine has been the same way stickster - something evil this week.	11:50
quaid	to be to write a migration doc and *start* migrating $something	11:51
* Sparks moves that idea to the wiki		11:52
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quaid	ok, next task table item	11:53
quaid	is the team per document	11:53
quaid	I'll write an email on that to the list right now, since the early deadline is approaching	11:53
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ke4qqq	we have a struggle there that I don't know that we've even identified a lead for every document yet have we?	11:55
quaid	yep	11:55
quaid	that's part of it, the task	11:55
quaid	is a bit unclear there	11:55
quaid	it's lead *and* team, but lead is key IMO to keeping it alive	11:55
quaid	if no one person is willing to try to get a team ...	11:55
ke4qqq	I agree	11:55
quaid	also, lead != all is good, since no one person should have to do it her/his self	11:56
ke4qqq	right	11:56
ke4qqq	and refresh my memory - was the thought that we'd drop a document if it had no lead?	11:57
quaid	yeah	11:57
quaid	since a team without a lead here is too problematic	11:57
jjmcd	Where is the list of docs and current (if any) leads?	11:57
quaid	if folks want to act as a collective and can put together a plan that will work, that's probably OK	11:57
* stickster drops off to pick up daughter		11:57
-!- stickster is now known as stickster_afk		11:57
quaid	http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs_Project_content_tasks_for_experienced_contributors	11:57
ke4qqq	so you are still listed on a ton of documents quaid, which of those are you really the lead for?	11:58
quaid	I'll remove myself	11:59
quaid	none, really	11:59
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quaid	that is ... I did that with the standard "guy in charge takes on all that no one else is doing"	11:59
quaid	so I can do that later if we think it's worthy, but I'm not really supposed to be taking on *more* Docs work :)	11:59
ke4qqq	thats what I thought - I think we need to strip your name from them - otherwise people will assume you have it covered :)	12:00
* quaid strips		12:00
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Sparks	yikes	12:03
quaid	sorry, crazy	12:06
quaid	actually my mouse was working, but full desktop lock	12:06
quaid	ok, time to close the meeting here	12:06
* quaid figures FAMSCo coming in?		12:06
quaid	head back to #fedora-docs to finish up discussions	12:07
quaid	</meeting>	12:07

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