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Fedora Release Engineering Meeting :: Monday 14-MAY-07

Rawhide

  • Notting put a lot of work into getting rawhide to build again--see IRC log for how it works
  • Discussion of mash and future rawhide building plans

Current Issues and Freeze Status

  • we agreed last week to revisit this week.
  • are we ready to freeze on Thursday?
  • discussion of packages causing problems

1. beagle

  • re-evaluate beagle and tracker for F8
  • bug #217031
  • maintainer made changes to comps
  • DECISION (UNANIMOUS): Accept maintainer's comps change, making beagle optional. Include it in manifest so that it is on media for upgrades.

1. wireless-tools

  • newest wireless-tools has a patch that's supposed to fix 64-bit that actually breaks all wireless scanning on 64-bit systems.
  • https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-extras-commits/2007-May/msg02800.html
  • warren will drive issue to conclusion
  • we not only need x86_64 testers, but also ppc and i386 to be sure the 64bit fix didn't break 32bit.
  • DECISION (UNANIMOUS): If that -3 build turns out to be No Good then we just revert the 64-bit patches entirely and call that -3 (or -4 or whatever)

1. hal

  • wwoods--hal-0.5.9-6.fc7 fixed the suspend/resume quirks for some stuff (T60 maybe?), but broke it for others (my pitiable t43)
  • without passing the quirks there's no way suspend to work on large classes of laptops
  • ACTION: jeremy will try to get hughsie to take a look--davidz won't be back until the 20th.

1. mdraid

  • wwoods--the old raidautorun stuff + IDE = doooom
  • wwoods will enage Peter Jones
  • realy need IDE drives to do good testing
  • lots of bugs; BZ: 151653, 231426, 238353, 221696, 213586, 238926
  • wwoods--never tested dmraid because no hardware; f13 is going to test now
  • DECISION: None reached
  • we should direct new packages to updates, not the final tree.
  • f13 will announce and update the freeze/release dates
  • everything must be done and ready for GA on 29-MAY-07

Outstanding GA Blocker Bugs

  • 81 bugs still on the fc7blocker
  • http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/QA/ReleaseCriteria provides guidance on release blockers
  • DECISION (UNANIMOUS):
  • Blocker only fixes starting Thursday (branch CVS same day)
  • Broken EVR paths and broken deps (including from the Merge) in the entire distro must be fixed before GA
  • wwoods to add this to release criteria

EULA

IRC Transcript

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<tr id="t12:58"><td class="other" colspan="2">{{Template:Tip}} f13 changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Fedora Release Meeting: Rawhide</td><td><a href="#t12:58" class="time">12:58</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t12:58"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">meeting in just a couple minutes</td><td class="time"><a href="#t12:58" class="time">12:58</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t12:58"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">poelcat: hi, are you here?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t12:58" class="time">12:58</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t12:59"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e"> poelcat</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">f13: present and accounted for</td><td class="time"><a href="#t12:59" class="time">12:59</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:00"><td class="action" colspan="2">* mmcgrath here for a while</td><td><a href="#t13:00" class="time">13:00</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:00"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">alright, lets get a rollcall.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:00" class="time">13:00</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:00"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">jwb: notting, jeremy, rdieter, warren, wwoods: ping?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:00" class="time">13:00</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:00"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">mmcgrath: thanks for stopping by</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:00" class="time">13:00</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:01"><td class="action" colspan="2">* jeremy is here (though the plumber is here too, so may be in and out)</td><td><a href="#t13:01" class="time">13:01</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:01"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144"> warren</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">I'm here it seems.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:01" class="time">13:01</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:01"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144"> warren</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">jeremy, plumber will be joining us? =)</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:01" class="time">13:01</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:02"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">Ok, well the rest will come in or notice this channel in a few moments.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:02" class="time">13:02</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:02"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">first topic is Rawhide.  Bill put in a lot of great work and managed to make a rawhide show up.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:02" class="time">13:02</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:03"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">notting: can you let us know what you had to do, and how we can keep it going?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:03" class="time">13:03</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:04"><th class="nick" style="background: #854685"> jeremy</th><td class="text" style="color: #854685">yes, that would be good :)</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:04" class="time">13:04</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:05"><td class="action" colspan="2">* f13 wonders if notting got distracted by a shiney</td><td><a href="#t13:05" class="time">13:05</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:05"><th class="nick" style="background: #488888"> mmcgrath</th><td class="text" style="color: #488888">:)</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:05" class="time">13:05</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:05"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e"> poelcat</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">donkey?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:05" class="time">13:05</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:08"><td class="action" colspan="2">* f13 tries the sms approach</td><td><a href="#t13:08" class="time">13:08</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:09"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">hrm.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:09" class="time">13:09</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:09"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144"> warren</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">f13, tried his desk phone?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:09" class="time">13:09</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:09"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">warren: he's working from home.  Helping wife take care of new baby.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:09" class="time">13:09</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:10"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">well, until he gets here.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:10" class="time">13:10</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:10"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">mmcgrath: what's our storage story like today?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:10" class="time">13:10</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:10"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">yarg, finally got X back up</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:10" class="time">13:10</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:11"><td class="action" colspan="2">* wwoods here</td><td><a href="#t13:11" class="time">13:11</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:11"><th class="nick" style="background: #488888"> mmcgrath</th><td class="text" style="color: #488888">hmm</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:11" class="time">13:11</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:11"><td class="action" colspan="2">* mmcgrath looks it up</td><td><a href="#t13:11" class="time">13:11</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:11"><th class="nick" style="background: #488888"> mmcgrath</th><td class="text" style="color: #488888">f13: I'm trying to get a quote for you on adding storage to the netap btw.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:11" class="time">13:11</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:12"><th class="nick" style="background: #488888"> mmcgrath</th><td class="text" style="color: #488888">f13: its filling up but we're ok.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:12" class="time">13:12</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:12"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">ok.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:12" class="time">13:12</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:12"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">mmcgrath: any new information on eta on mounting the netapp?  Having to use that other NFS storage is putting a _huge_ cramp in our style.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:12" class="time">13:12</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:13"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">compose processes which should take 20~ minutes are taking 4+ hours</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:13" class="time">13:13</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:13"><th class="nick" style="background: #488888"> mmcgrath</th><td class="text" style="color: #488888"><nod> I'm going to push hard to get it mounted in the next day or two even if it is a T less then what we were asking for.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:13" class="time">13:13</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:13"><td class="action" colspan="2">* mmcgrath heard it was taking 30 minutes?</td><td><a href="#t13:13" class="time">13:13</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:13"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">30 minutes for one createrepo.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:13" class="time">13:13</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:14"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">on hte fast side.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:14" class="time">13:14</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:14"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">and there goes notting :(</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:14" class="time">13:14</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:14"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">notting: welcome back?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:14" class="time">13:14</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:14"><th class="nick" style="background: #4b904b"> notting</th><td class="text" style="color: #4b904b">*sigh*</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:14" class="time">13:14</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:15"><td class="action" colspan="2">* notting kicks his upstream network. and flings poo at networkmanager</td><td><a href="#t13:15" class="time">13:15</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:15"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40"><f13> first topic is Rawhide.  Bill put in a lot of great work and managed to make a rawhide show up.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:15" class="time">13:15</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:15"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40"><f13> notting: can you let us know what you had to do, and how we can keep it going?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:15" class="time">13:15</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:15"><td class="action" colspan="2">* wwoods leads general cheers: yeah! yay notting! he is our hero! etc.</td><td><a href="#t13:15" class="time">13:15</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:16"><th class="nick" style="background: #4b904b"> notting</th><td class="text" style="color: #4b904b">ok, so</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:16" class="time">13:16</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:16"><th class="nick" style="background: #4b904b"> notting</th><td class="text" style="color: #4b904b">it involved:</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:16" class="time">13:16</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:16"><th class="nick" style="background: #4b904b"> notting</th><td class="text" style="color: #4b904b">1) running mash by hand (this can be scripted)</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:16" class="time">13:16</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:16"><th class="nick" style="background: #4b904b"> notting</th><td class="text" style="color: #4b904b">2) running pungi on that tree by hand (this is awfully hard to script with mock, and other machines involved.)</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:16" class="time">13:16</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:16"><th class="nick" style="background: #4b904b"> notting</th><td class="text" style="color: #4b904b">- for this i used the x86_64 and i386 chroots on publictest4, and made a quick chroot on ppc1</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:16" class="time">13:16</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:17"><th class="nick" style="background: #4b904b"> notting</th><td class="text" style="color: #4b904b">3) set up a rsync server on xen6 (installed xinetd, wrote config (sorry mmcgrath, forgot about puppet)</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:17" class="time">13:17</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:17"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">we really need to teach koji to do this stuff so we can run the mash / pungi stuff as normal koji tasks on the builders</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:17" class="time">13:17</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:17"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">sortof.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:17" class="time">13:17</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:17"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">there is more to it than just teaching koji how to do a runroot task.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:17" class="time">13:17</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:17"><th class="nick" style="background: #4b904b"> notting</th><td class="text" style="color: #4b904b">4) ran rsync to push it to wallace (internal mirror master). this took a loooong time due to the amount of data)</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:17" class="time">13:17</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:18"><th class="nick" style="background: #4b904b"> notting</th><td class="text" style="color: #4b904b">the rsync can be scripted. i made sure to a) exclude deletions of debuginfo (since the tree had a very incomplete set at the time, should be fixed now), and I also didn't delete the ia64/s390/s390x trees, in case someone still wants them for a while</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:18" class="time">13:18</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:18"><th class="nick" style="background: #4b904b"> notting</th><td class="text" style="color: #4b904b">mdomsch: random point - you suggest --delay-updates, the rsync on our mirror master head doesn't support that :/</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:18" class="time">13:18</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:19"><th class="nick" style="background: #4b904b"> notting</th><td class="text" style="color: #4b904b">i am not sure how we script pungi right now, as it involves setting  up mock chroots on other machines :/</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:19" class="time">13:19</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:20"><th class="nick" style="background: #854685"> jeremy</th><td class="text" style="color: #854685">notting: ssh keys!</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:20" class="time">13:20</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:20"><th class="nick" style="background: #854685"> jeremy</th><td class="text" style="color: #854685">followed by 'ssh host somecommandshere'</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:20" class="time">13:20</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:21"><th class="nick" style="background: #4b904b"> notting</th><td class="text" style="color: #4b904b">jeremy: still... randomly saying 'hey, i'll abuse that builder' is kinda rude</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:21" class="time">13:21</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:21"><th class="nick" style="background: #4b904b"> notting</th><td class="text" style="color: #4b904b">also, to run pungi we'd need to toss a modified config at it</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:21" class="time">13:21</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:21"><th class="nick" style="background: #4b904b"> notting</th><td class="text" style="color: #4b904b">which is sort of messy through a chroot</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:21" class="time">13:21</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:21"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">notting: yeah, we need koji runroot capability</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:21" class="time">13:21</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:21"><th class="nick" style="background: #4b904b"> notting</th><td class="text" style="color: #4b904b">f13: random pungi question - why is the createrepo in the -B stage instead of the -G phase?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:21" class="time">13:21</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:21"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">notting: configs can be stored in $SCM and pulled.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:21" class="time">13:21</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:22"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">notting: mostly because said createrepo used to live in buildinstall itself.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:22" class="time">13:22</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:22"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">this stage stuff was a patch I probably shouldn't have taken in.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:22" class="time">13:22</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:22"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">obviously it's not really ready to be broken up in stages like that.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:22" class="time">13:22</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:22"><th class="nick" style="background: #4b904b"> notting</th><td class="text" style="color: #4b904b">please don't take it out! sort of need it for rawhide</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:22" class="time">13:22</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:23"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">I know.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:23" class="time">13:23</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:23"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">although</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:23" class="time">13:23</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:23"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">in the future, we should be able to send off bits of mash to builders, to do the full gather/buildinstall part.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:23" class="time">13:23</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:24"><th class="nick" style="background: #4b904b"> notting</th><td class="text" style="color: #4b904b">the rpm gathering doesn't need to be sent off - that would make it slower</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:24" class="time">13:24</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:24"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">notting: so we could fairly easily automate rawhide, if it wasn't installable</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:24" class="time">13:24</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:24"><th class="nick" style="background: #4b904b"> notting</th><td class="text" style="color: #4b904b">f13: yes</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:24" class="time">13:24</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:25"><th class="nick" style="background: #4b904b"> notting</th><td class="text" style="color: #4b904b">f13: although, due to the rsync hoop jumping,it would be kicked off via an internal script</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:25" class="time">13:25</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:25"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">nod</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:25" class="time">13:25</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:26"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">perhaps we should get that part automated, and we'll work on the installable part on the side?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:26" class="time">13:26</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:27"><th class="nick" style="background: #4b904b"> notting</th><td class="text" style="color: #4b904b">ok, will start poking. the internal script will be something ridiculously short like ssh <host> doit && rsync</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:27" class="time">13:27</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:28"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">nod, that's what I was hoping for</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:28" class="time">13:28</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:28"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">rsync shouldn't be nearly as bad next time around.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:28" class="time">13:28</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:28"><th class="nick" style="background: #4b904b"> notting</th><td class="text" style="color: #4b904b">oh, all the extras debuginfo stuff *should* be imported now.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:28" class="time">13:28</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:28"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">goot.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:28" class="time">13:28</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:28"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">well that will make it slower 9:</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:28" class="time">13:28</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:29"><th class="nick" style="background: #4b904b"> notting</th><td class="text" style="color: #4b904b">random note: koji commandline throws bizarre errors if you try to import the same source RPM twice in parallel</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:29" class="time">13:29</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:29"><th class="nick" style="background: #4b904b"> notting</th><td class="text" style="color: #4b904b">but the db ends up ok</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:29" class="time">13:29</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:30"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">anything else on Rawhide?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:30" class="time">13:30</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:30"><th class="nick" style="background: #4b904b"> notting</th><td class="text" style="color: #4b904b">just fyi:</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:30" class="time">13:30</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:30"><th class="nick" style="background: #4b904b"> notting</th><td class="text" style="color: #4b904b">i started that compose at ~3PM on friday</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:30" class="time">13:30</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:30"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">oh - some of the folks internal to Red Hat have asked about rawhide builds for non-standard arches (e.g. ia64)</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:30" class="time">13:30</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:30"><th class="nick" style="background: #4b904b"> notting</th><td class="text" style="color: #4b904b">it finished pushing to the mirror master at ~10AM on saturday</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:30" class="time">13:30</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:31"><th class="nick" style="background: #854685"> jeremy</th><td class="text" style="color: #854685">wwoods: they need to get the package builds for those arches going</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:31" class="time">13:31</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:31"><th class="nick" style="background: #4b904b"> notting</th><td class="text" style="color: #4b904b">f13 (and other interested parties) - please chime in on <a href="http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Infrastructure/RFR/Compose">http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Infrastructure/RFR/Compose</a></td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:31" class="time">13:31</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:31"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">I don't really want to commit us to building that stuff, but it seems like we might want to do it internally</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:31" class="time">13:31</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:32"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">wwoods: lets talk about that in a more internal setting.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:32" class="time">13:32</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:32"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">wwoods: but simple answer, Fedora will not be building/composing rawhide for those arches.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:32" class="time">13:32</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:32"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">and Red Hat won't be doing it for Fedora either.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:32" class="time">13:32</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:32"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">right, this will have implications for other people wanting to do their own koji->mash->pungi composes of rawhide (SGI, AlphaCore, etc)</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:32" class="time">13:32</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:33"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">wwoods: correct, they should have their own koji to mash from (:</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:33" class="time">13:33</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:33"><th class="nick" style="background: #854685"> jeremy</th><td class="text" style="color: #854685">wwoods: just that they need to do the builds themselves.  they're secondary arches as far as fedora is concerned</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:33" class="time">13:33</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:33"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">in short: we'll probably want to figure out some directions for telling other people how to build rawhide themselves, at some point (like after F7)</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:33" class="time">13:33</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:33"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">wwoods: this is all part of our grand secondary arch plans, which spot-food is leading.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:33" class="time">13:33</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:33"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">gotcha.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:33" class="time">13:33</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:35"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">ok, moving on.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:35" class="time">13:35</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:35"><td class="other" colspan="2">{{Template:Tip}} f13 changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Freeze on Thursday?</td><td><a href="#t13:35" class="time">13:35</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:35"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">we agreed last week to revisit this week.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:35" class="time">13:35</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:35"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">although given we've only had one rawhide, perhaps we need to revisit on Wed?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:35" class="time">13:35</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:36"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">my opinion depends on what we consider to be the gate for the freeze. we're obviously nowhere near fixing all the open blockers.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:36" class="time">13:36</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:37"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">so if that's not the determining factor.. what is?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:37" class="time">13:37</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:38"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">wwoods: are we making progress on them?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:38" class="time">13:38</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:38"><th class="nick" style="background: #488888"> mmcgrath</th><td class="text" style="color: #488888">f13: sorry I've got to run, (flight to catch) any immediate needs from me?  I'll get back on when I'm at the gate.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:38" class="time">13:38</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:38"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">mmcgrath: don't think so.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:38" class="time">13:38</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:38"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">at this point we're already in a devel freeze so I'm unclear on what this other freeze will mean</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:38" class="time">13:38</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:38"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144"> warren</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">Without rawhide, we can't get bits to testers and get feedback turnaround, we're in an awfully shaky level of awareness</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:38" class="time">13:38</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:38"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">f13: yeah, some, but there's some huge scary ones, like anaconda's handling of mdraid</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:38" class="time">13:38</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:38"><th class="nick" style="background: #488888"> mmcgrath</th><td class="text" style="color: #488888">k</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:38" class="time">13:38</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:38"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">wwoods: we'd stop taking anything but the blocker bugs and things that prevent composes.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:38" class="time">13:38</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:38"><td class="action" colspan="2">* mmcgrath out</td><td><a href="#t13:38" class="time">13:38</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:38"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">warren: we've had one rawhide... (:</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:38" class="time">13:38</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:39"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">ahhh. yeah, at this point I'm fine saying "nothing but blockers and compose-breakers from now on" on thursday.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:39" class="time">13:39</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:40"><th class="nick" style="background: #4b904b"> notting</th><td class="text" style="color: #4b904b">wwoods: what sort of status do we have on the updated rawhide? anything go completely bang?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:40" class="time">13:40</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:40"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144"> warren</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">We need to be testing install of that, and testing upgrade of previous Fedora...</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:40" class="time">13:40</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:40"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">chatter seems mostly positive, although emacs exploded</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:40" class="time">13:40</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:40"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">wwoods: at that time, we'd also branch CVS and let stuff start moving toward F8 and f7 updates.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:40" class="time">13:40</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:41"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">so we're talking about the freeze *and* the branchpoint. ok.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:41" class="time">13:41</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:41"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">yeah, they're tied together</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:41" class="time">13:41</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:41"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">gotcha.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:41" class="time">13:41</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:42"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144"> warren</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">In order to reduce confusion, should we also STOP addition of "extras" packages at that point?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:42" class="time">13:42</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:42"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144"> warren</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">at least until gold is cut</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:42" class="time">13:42</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:42"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">warren: they could be added to devel/, which would build to dist-f8</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:42" class="time">13:42</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:42"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144"> warren</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">oh</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:42" class="time">13:42</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:42"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144"> warren</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">ok</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:42" class="time">13:42</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:42"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">warren: we'd just not respond to any FC-7 branch requests for new packages.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:42" class="time">13:42</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:43"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144"> warren</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">k</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:43" class="time">13:43</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:43"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">or even if we did, they'd get tagged dist dist-fc7-updates-candidate</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:43" class="time">13:43</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:43"><th class="nick" style="background: #4b904b"> notting</th><td class="text" style="color: #4b904b">warren: might be a good idea, although it gives a short time that upgrades could be broken. can be fixed post-release ,though</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:43" class="time">13:43</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:43"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">there's a few packages - beagle, hal, wireless-tools - that we need to make decisions on. I feel like those should be pre-freeze but I don't know if that's required.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:43" class="time">13:43</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:43"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144"> warren</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">f13, well, branch requests can go through, we just wont tag?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:43" class="time">13:43</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:43"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144"> warren</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">wwoods, what is the hal issue?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:43" class="time">13:43</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:43"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144"> warren</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">beagle we really should turn off prior to the freeze.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:43" class="time">13:43</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:43"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">warren: right, we would direct new packages to updates, not the final tree.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:43" class="time">13:43</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:43"><th class="nick" style="background: #854685"> jeremy</th><td class="text" style="color: #854685">wwoods: then we should go through them one by one now</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:43" class="time">13:43</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:44"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">warren: newest hal screws up quirks for a bunch of machines - symptoms are mostly resume regressions</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:44" class="time">13:44</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:44"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">beagle is.. beagle. the redhat.com maintainer suggests we remove it or disable it by default for F7.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:44" class="time">13:44</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:44"><td class="action" colspan="2">* warren votes for removal</td><td><a href="#t13:44" class="time">13:44</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:45"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">newest wireless-tools has a patch that's supposed to fix 64-bit that actually breaks all wireless scanning on 64-bit systems.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:45" class="time">13:45</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:45"><th class="nick" style="background: #4b904b"> notting</th><td class="text" style="color: #4b904b">wwoods: eh, whaaa? (re: beagle)</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:45" class="time">13:45</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:45"><th class="nick" style="background: #4b904b"> notting</th><td class="text" style="color: #4b904b">why is it suddenly that drastic now?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:45" class="time">13:45</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:45"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">notting: yes, filed under "things that would have been nice to know before the feature freeze"</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:45" class="time">13:45</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:45"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">notting: posted to -devel, they can't fix it where it breaks nad makes things really slow, want to make it off by default.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:45" class="time">13:45</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:45"><th class="nick" style="background: #854685"> jeremy</th><td class="text" style="color: #854685">wwoods: one at a time implies not just spewing them all out together so that we can sanely discuss them :/</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:45" class="time">13:45</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:45"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144"> warren</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">wireless-tools worked reasonably well on x86-64 prior to that patch.  With that patch, it doesn't work AT ALL.  They stopped responding on the topic, so we should just back it out.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:45" class="time">13:45</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:45"><td class="action" colspan="2">* warren checks on caillon...</td><td><a href="#t13:45" class="time">13:45</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:45"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">lets go back to beagle.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:45" class="time">13:45</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:46"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">starting with beagle, then.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:46" class="time">13:46</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:46"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">bug #217031</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:46" class="time">13:46</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:46"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">basically, certain file types make the scanner freak out and peg the CPU forever</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:46" class="time">13:46</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:46"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">...again</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:46" class="time">13:46</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:47"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">oh here's the fun thing.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:47" class="time">13:47</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:47"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">the maintainer already axed it from comps. :(</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:47" class="time">13:47</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:47"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">one could make the argument that beagle is less solid than NM, and we don't enable NM by default, so...</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:47" class="time">13:47</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:47"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">it stands to reason that we should at least *consider* removing it</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:47" class="time">13:47</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:47"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">yeah, especially since the maintainer has attempted to remove it himself.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:47" class="time">13:47</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:48"><th class="nick" style="background: #854685"> jeremy</th><td class="text" style="color: #854685">f13: it's not like a comps change is impossible to revert</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:48" class="time">13:48</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:48"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">no, it's not, just providing a data point.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:48" class="time">13:48</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:48"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144"> warren</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">Is beagle the only mono thing that is installed by default?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:48" class="time">13:48</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:49"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">warren: tomboy</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:49" class="time">13:49</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:49"><th class="nick" style="background: #854685"> jeremy</th><td class="text" style="color: #854685">warren: I think tomboy gets installed by default also</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:49" class="time">13:49</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:49"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">f-spot</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:49" class="time">13:49</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:49"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144"> warren</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">default?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:49" class="time">13:49</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:49"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144"> warren</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">oh</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:49" class="time">13:49</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:49"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">not sure if those are defaults actaully</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:49" class="time">13:49</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:49"><th class="nick" style="background: #854685"> jeremy</th><td class="text" style="color: #854685">tomboy is default</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:49" class="time">13:49</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:49"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144"> warren</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">well, given that beagle has such negative effects, it makes sense to simply not install it by default.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:49" class="time">13:49</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:49"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">tomboy is default, f-spot is optional.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:49" class="time">13:49</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:49"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">beagle is the only one that's running by default</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:49" class="time">13:49</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:49"><th class="nick" style="background: #854685"> jeremy</th><td class="text" style="color: #854685">wwoods: yes</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:49" class="time">13:49</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:49"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">which means every fedora system automatically has the mono interpreter stuff running</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:49" class="time">13:49</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:49"><th class="nick" style="background: #4b904b"> notting</th><td class="text" style="color: #4b904b">f-spot is optional</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:49" class="time">13:49</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:50"><th class="nick" style="background: #4b904b"> notting</th><td class="text" style="color: #4b904b">which means it's not in prime, if i understand right</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:50" class="time">13:50</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:50"><th class="nick" style="background: #4b904b"> notting</th><td class="text" style="color: #4b904b">or fedora, or whatever we're calling it ;)</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:50" class="time">13:50</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:50"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">not to mention the overhead of the scanning, the fact that it scans by default on batteries.. arjan has noted that it'll kill an hour from battery life</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:50" class="time">13:50</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:50"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144"> warren</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">Do not install beagle by default, but let it run by default if installed.  That way only people who choose to install it conveniently get it without more twiddling.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:50" class="time">13:50</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:50"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">as it stands right now, beagle and beagle-evolution are optional.  I'm OK with it staying that way.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:50" class="time">13:50</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:50"><th class="nick" style="background: #4b904b"> notting</th><td class="text" style="color: #4b904b">f13: so, not in the tree?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:50" class="time">13:50</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:50"><td class="action" colspan="2">* rdieter pokes head in...</td><td><a href="#t13:50" class="time">13:50</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:50"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">optional? they were previously defaults</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:50" class="time">13:50</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:50"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">is that alexl's change?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:50" class="time">13:50</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:50"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">warren: maintainer changed comps.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:50" class="time">13:50</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:50"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">er wwoods</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:50" class="time">13:50</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:51"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">notting: unless they get pulled in via some other deps, yes.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:51" class="time">13:51</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:51"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">ah, I thought you were saying they were optional prior to his change</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:51" class="time">13:51</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:51"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">notting: actually I just did a pungi compose with the new comps and it does not get pulled into the spin.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:51" class="time">13:51</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:51"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144"> warren</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">how is this difficult?  What is wrong with simply deciding not to install it by default?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:51" class="time">13:51</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:51"><th class="nick" style="background: #4b904b"> notting</th><td class="text" style="color: #4b904b">jeremy: is commitspam for comps working for you?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:51" class="time">13:51</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:52"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">warren: for one, I would like to be sure that our frozen release notes don't make reference to it.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:52" class="time">13:52</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:52"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">quaid: stickster: know if there is any beagle content in the release notes?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:52" class="time">13:52</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:52"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">so, wait, it's not even going to be on the *media* anymore?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:52" class="time">13:52</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:52"><th class="nick" style="background: #854685"> jeremy</th><td class="text" style="color: #854685">notting: only via fedora-extras-commits</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:52" class="time">13:52</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:52"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">won't that be.. bad.. for people upgrading from fc6?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:52" class="time">13:52</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:52"><th class="nick" style="background: #854685"> jeremy</th><td class="text" style="color: #854685">wwoods: it might make sense to add it to the manifest so that it remains on the media</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:52" class="time">13:52</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:52"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">wwoods: it wouldn't be, unless we add it in via the manifest for the upgrade case.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:52" class="time">13:52</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:52"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">(good catch)</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:52" class="time">13:52</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:52"><th class="nick" style="background: #4d4d93"> stickster</th><td class="text" style="color: #4d4d93">f13: I don't think there's any beagle content, but let me check real quick</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:52" class="time">13:52</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:53"><th class="nick" style="background: #854685"> jeremy</th><td class="text" style="color: #854685">(side-note: we need to revisit the manifest thing again post-f7...  it's causing us a fair bit of pain due to optional packages that we due want available, but not installed by default)</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:53" class="time">13:53</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:53"><th class="nick" style="background: #4d4d93"> stickster</th><td class="text" style="color: #4d4d93">f13: nope, none to date in our XML in CVS</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:53" class="time">13:53</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:54"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">it's sad, too, I really like the concept of beagle</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:54" class="time">13:54</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:54"><td class="action" colspan="2">* stickster too</td><td><a href="#t13:54" class="time">13:54</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:54"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">but, ugh. the current implementation is just.. not nearly ready</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:54" class="time">13:54</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:54"><th class="nick" style="background: #4b904b"> notting</th><td class="text" style="color: #4b904b">well ,it's ready enough that we've shipped it by default for how long?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:54" class="time">13:54</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:54"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">wwoods: tried the other search thingy?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:54" class="time">13:54</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:54"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">anyway, so I guess it's decided: we're making beagle optional in f7 but keeping it on the media</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:54" class="time">13:54</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:55"><th class="nick" style="background: #97974f"> nirik</th><td class="text" style="color: #97974f">tracker any better?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:55" class="time">13:55</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:55"><th class="nick" style="background: #4b904b"> notting</th><td class="text" style="color: #4b904b">jeremy: should be fixed now</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:55" class="time">13:55</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:55"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">f13: tracker? yeah, it's nicely quick and low memory reqs, but it doesn't index evolution yet</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:55" class="time">13:55</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:55"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">that's the big win for me</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:55" class="time">13:55</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:55"><th class="nick" style="background: #4d4d93"> stickster</th><td class="text" style="color: #4d4d93">nirik: better on this particular axis (battery drain), but covers  fewer formats</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:55" class="time">13:55</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:55"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">although it's way better at, for instance, finding tagged media files</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:55" class="time">13:55</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:55"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">beagle doesn't index id3 / ogg tags</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:55" class="time">13:55</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:55"><th class="nick" style="background: #4d4d93"> stickster</th><td class="text" style="color: #4d4d93">true dat</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:55" class="time">13:55</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:55"><th class="nick" style="background: #4b904b"> notting</th><td class="text" style="color: #4b904b">which part of tracker is 'better'? i would assume the 'daemon that has to walk all files' would suck no matter how it's written</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:55" class="time">13:55</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:55"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">I guess we should vote on this.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:55" class="time">13:55</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:56"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">Proposal: Accept maintainer's comps change, making beagle optional.  Include it in manifest so that it is on media for upgrades.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:56" class="time">13:56</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:56"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">+1</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:56" class="time">13:56</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:56"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144"> warren</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">+<code></td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:56" class="time">13:56</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:56"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">+1</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:56" class="time">13:56</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:56"><th class="nick" style="background: #854685"> jeremy</th><td class="text" style="color: #854685">+1</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:56" class="time">13:56</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:56"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144"> warren</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">err.. +1</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:56" class="time">13:56</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:56"><th class="nick" style="background: #4b904b"> notting</th><td class="text" style="color: #4b904b">is there another option?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:56" class="time">13:56</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:56"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">notting: force it to be default again.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:56" class="time">13:56</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:56"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">force it back to being default, get someone else to fix 217031 for F7</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:56" class="time">13:56</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:57"><th class="nick" style="background: #854685"> jeremy</th><td class="text" style="color: #854685">notting: leave it in its current state?  hope maybe something can get fixed in the next few days?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:57" class="time">13:57</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:57"><th class="nick" style="background: #9b519b"> rdieter</th><td class="text" style="color: #9b519b">proposal: +1</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:57" class="time">13:57</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:57"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">we should definitely re-evaluate beagle and tracker for F8 though</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:57" class="time">13:57</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:58"><th class="nick" style="background: #4b904b"> notting</th><td class="text" style="color: #4b904b">+0.1. I really don't like changing things after feature freeze like this, but it being essentially a feature-ectomy makes it clean. HOWEVER</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:58" class="time">13:58</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:58"><th class="nick" style="background: #4b904b"> notting</th><td class="text" style="color: #4b904b">wwoods: please test to make sure all the default panel/etc search stuff still does something sane :)</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:58" class="time">13:58</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:58"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">will do.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:58" class="time">13:58</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:58"><td class="action" colspan="2">* jwb is late</td><td><a href="#t13:58" class="time">13:58</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:59"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">good lord. I can't even load beagle-project.org</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:59" class="time">13:59</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:59"><th class="nick" style="background: #9b519b"> rdieter</th><td class="text" style="color: #9b519b">wwoods: for f8, include <a href="http://strigi.sourceforge.net/">http://strigi.sourceforge.net/</a> for evaluation too.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:59" class="time">13:59</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:59"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">okay, so on the off chance that removing beagle causes a ripple effect</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:59" class="time">13:59</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:59"><th class="nick" style="background: #97974f"> nirik</th><td class="text" style="color: #97974f">and recoll</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:59" class="time">13:59</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:59"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">squash the ripple bugs, or revert the change & go back to beagle-default?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:59" class="time">13:59</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:00"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">depends on the ripple.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:00" class="time">14:00</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:00"><td class="action" colspan="2">* f13 doesn't like planning that far ahead.</td><td><a href="#t14:00" class="time">14:00</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:00"><th class="nick" style="background: #854685"> jeremy</th><td class="text" style="color: #854685">well, the ripple bugs probably need fixing anyway.  since people apparently _are_ already just removing beagle from their system</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:00" class="time">14:00</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:01"><th class="nick" style="background: #539e9e"> mdomsch</th><td class="text" style="color: #539e9e">notting, --delay-updates :-(</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:01" class="time">14:01</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:01"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">so actually, that bug is fixed in beagle-0.2.17</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:01" class="time">14:01</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:01"><th class="nick" style="background: #4b904b"> notting</th><td class="text" style="color: #4b904b">mdomsch: rhel 2.1 :(</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:01" class="time">14:01</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:01"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">but the maintainer has just requested that we remove beagle from the distro rather than backporting the fix (or updating to 0.2.17)</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:01" class="time">14:01</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:02"><th class="nick" style="background: #4b904b"> notting</th><td class="text" style="color: #4b904b">wwoods: someone claimed that 0.2.17 still failed for them</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:02" class="time">14:02</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:02"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">anyway, I think the vote passed, so we have a plan for now.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:02" class="time">14:02</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:02"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">I'll respond to Alex's post</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:02" class="time">14:02</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:02"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">wwoods: whats the next item on your hit list?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:02" class="time">14:02</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:03"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">next let's do wireless-tools, which is pretty straightforward</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:03" class="time">14:03</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:03"><th class="nick" style="background: #97974f"> nirik</th><td class="text" style="color: #97974f">checkin on wireless tools this morning.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:03" class="time">14:03</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:03"><th class="nick" style="background: #97974f"> nirik</th><td class="text" style="color: #97974f"><a href="https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-extras-commits/2007-May/msg02800.html">https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-extras-commits/2007-May/msg02800.html</a></td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:03" class="time">14:03</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:03"><th class="nick" style="background: #539e9e"> mdomsch</th><td class="text" style="color: #539e9e">notting, what's it going to take to upgrade that RPM?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:03" class="time">14:03</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:03"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">nirik: oh nice. have you tried it?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:03" class="time">14:03</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:03"><th class="nick" style="background: #97974f"> nirik</th><td class="text" style="color: #97974f">not yet, but I can real quick.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:03" class="time">14:03</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:03"><th class="nick" style="background: #97974f"> nirik</th><td class="text" style="color: #97974f">except it's not built. ;(</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:03" class="time">14:03</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:03"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">this is bug #238657</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:03" class="time">14:03</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:05"><th class="nick" style="background: #4b904b"> notting</th><td class="text" style="color: #4b904b">mdomsch: not sure if they'll take a non-official update. obviously, you can guess the chances of getting rsync updated for rhel2.1 or rhel3 at this point</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:05" class="time">14:05</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:05"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">caillon is stuck in airport hell.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:05" class="time">14:05</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:05"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">won't be back until Wed~</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:05" class="time">14:05</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:05"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">wireless-tools-28-1 works fine, 28-2 added a patch to "Backport a few 64bit alignment fixes from the latest betas"</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:05" class="time">14:05</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:05"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">which which broke all wireless scanning on x86_64, so we've been telling people to revert to -1</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:05" class="time">14:05</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:05"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">he'll be checking mail and such periodically so we could get his go ahead to build -3 and see if it works.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:05" class="time">14:05</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:05"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">well, anybody can build a test srpm and build it that way</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:05" class="time">14:05</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:05"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144"> warren</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">Proposal: Just back it out and build -3.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:05" class="time">14:05</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:05"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">warren: are you effected by this?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:05" class="time">14:05</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:05"><td class="action" colspan="2">* nirik builds the cvs version. </td><td><a href="#t14:05" class="time">14:05</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:06"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">I think nirik's building the current -3 (revised patch) right now</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:06" class="time">14:06</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:06"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">nirik: are you building locally?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:06" class="time">14:06</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:06"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144"> warren</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">f13, yes</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:06" class="time">14:06</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:06"><th class="nick" style="background: #97974f"> nirik</th><td class="text" style="color: #97974f">yeah, just locally.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:06" class="time">14:06</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:06"><th class="nick" style="background: #97974f"> nirik</th><td class="text" style="color: #97974f">seems to work ok.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:06" class="time">14:06</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:06"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144"> warren</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">f13, I discovered and reported the breakage and spent hours with caillon trying to fix it</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:06" class="time">14:06</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:06"><th class="nick" style="background: #97974f"> nirik</th><td class="text" style="color: #97974f">I can still scan fine.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:06" class="time">14:06</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:06"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144"> warren</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">f13, we were unsuccessful</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:06" class="time">14:06</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:06"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">warren: including the patch he has in CVS?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:06" class="time">14:06</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:06"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144"> warren</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">f13, yes.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:06" class="time">14:06</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:07"><th class="nick" style="background: #97974f"> nirik</th><td class="text" style="color: #97974f">warren: looks like he backed out lots of the former -2 patch...</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:07" class="time">14:07</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:07"><th class="nick" style="background: #97974f"> nirik</th><td class="text" style="color: #97974f"><a href="https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-extras-commits/2007-May/msg02800.html">https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-extras-commits/2007-May/msg02800.html</a></td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:07" class="time">14:07</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:07"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144"> warren</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">why didn't he build it?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:07" class="time">14:07</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:07"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">warren: probably because he's stuck in an airport and the tubes suck.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:07" class="time">14:07</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:07"><th class="nick" style="background: #97974f"> nirik</th><td class="text" style="color: #97974f">dunno. It works here tho, and -2 segfaulted on me</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:07" class="time">14:07</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:07"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144"> warren</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">nirik, latest CVS you mean?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:07" class="time">14:07</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:07"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">I'm doing a --scratch build that will be publically available, we could get reporters to try that build.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:07" class="time">14:07</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:08"><th class="nick" style="background: #97974f"> nirik</th><td class="text" style="color: #97974f">warren: yes, -3 works here... built locally from cvs.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:08" class="time">14:08</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:08"><th class="nick" style="background: #4b904b"> notting</th><td class="text" style="color: #4b904b">f13: stuck getting out of SD?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:08" class="time">14:08</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:08"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40"><a href="http://koji.fedoraproject.org/koji/taskinfo?taskID=7892">http://koji.fedoraproject.org/koji/taskinfo?taskID=7892</a></td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:08" class="time">14:08</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:08"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">notting: yeah</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:08" class="time">14:08</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:08"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144"> warren</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">f13, given that -2 is totally broken, why not just build and push -3 so it gets wider testing?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:08" class="time">14:08</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:09"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144"> warren</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">f13, we not only need x86_64 testers, but also ppc and i386 to be sure the 64bit fix didn't break 32bit.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:09" class="time">14:09</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:09"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">warren: scratch build does all arches</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:09" class="time">14:09</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:09"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144"> warren</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">f13, yes, but why not just push it to rawhide tagged?  It can't be worse than -2, and we automatically get WAY more testing.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:09" class="time">14:09</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:09"><th class="nick" style="background: #97974f"> nirik</th><td class="text" style="color: #97974f"><a href="http://www.scrye.com/~kevin/wireless-tools-28-3.fc7.x86_64.rpm">http://www.scrye.com/~kevin/wireless-tools-28-3.fc7.x86_64.rpm</a> if anyone here wants my locally built one to test real quick.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:09" class="time">14:09</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:09"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">warren: because if this doesn't fix the x86_64, the easiest thing is to just untag.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:09" class="time">14:09</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:10"><th class="nick" style="background: #854685"> jeremy</th><td class="text" style="color: #854685">the patch doesn't look insane; I can definitely see it fixing 64bit problems</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:10" class="time">14:10</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:10"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144"> warren</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">f13, please don't just revert and expect people to use -1.  We should properly push an overriding newer release.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:10" class="time">14:10</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:10"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40"><a href="http://koji.fedoraproject.org/koji/getfile?taskID=7894&name=wireless-tools-28-3.fc7.x86_64.rpm">http://koji.fedoraproject.org/koji/getfile?taskID=7894&name=wireless-tools-28-3.fc7.x86_64.rpm</a></td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:10" class="time">14:10</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:10"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">I'd propose that if that -3 build turns out to be No Good then we just revert the 64-bit patches entirely and call that -3 (or -4 or whatever)</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:10" class="time">14:10</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:10"><th class="nick" style="background: #854685"> jeremy</th><td class="text" style="color: #854685">wwoods: +1</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:10" class="time">14:10</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:10"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144"> warren</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">I think we should just push -3 in to rawhide, it is no worse than -2.  We need wide exposure and testing.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:10" class="time">14:10</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:11"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144"> warren</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">If it explodes just revert fully in -4.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:11" class="time">14:11</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:11"><th class="nick" style="background: #854685"> jeremy</th><td class="text" style="color: #854685">warren/nirik: since the two of you are hitting this and caillon is stuck in airport hell, can one of the two of you drive it?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:11" class="time">14:11</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:11"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">we're not doing automatic rawhide pushes yet, so that's not really fully effective, but yeah</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:11" class="time">14:11</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:11"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">right</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:11" class="time">14:11</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:11"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144"> warren</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">jeremy, yeah, I'll drive, I already spent hours on this.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:11" class="time">14:11</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:11"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">it would be far quicker to get people to test these scratch built rpms.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:11" class="time">14:11</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:11"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144"> warren</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">f13, why not both?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:11" class="time">14:11</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:11"><th class="nick" style="background: #854685"> jeremy</th><td class="text" style="color: #854685">okay.  we have a plan, let's move on :)</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:11" class="time">14:11</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:11"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">since the build is already done.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:11" class="time">14:11</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:12"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144"> warren</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">just tag it and do it both ways.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:12" class="time">14:12</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:12"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">warren: whatever.  I don't care.  Scratch rpms are available _now_ for people to test.  Can be done in parallel.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:12" class="time">14:12</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:12"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">can't tag a scratch build.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:12" class="time">14:12</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:12"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">next on my list is hal - was davidz at the Summit? will he be around this week?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:12" class="time">14:12</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:12"><th class="nick" style="background: #854685"> jeremy</th><td class="text" style="color: #854685">wwoods: item #3... hal stuffs</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:12" class="time">14:12</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:12"><th class="nick" style="background: #854685"> jeremy</th><td class="text" style="color: #854685">davidz was at the summit</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:12" class="time">14:12</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:12"><td class="action" colspan="2">* warren builds -3 for real and tags it...</td><td><a href="#t14:12" class="time">14:12</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:12"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">basically hal-0.5.9-6.fc7 fixed the suspend/resume quirks for some stuff (T60 maybe?)</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:12" class="time">14:12</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:13"><th class="nick" style="background: #854685"> jeremy</th><td class="text" style="color: #854685">and I think he's traveling this week :-/</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:13" class="time">14:13</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:13"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">but broke it for others (my pitiable t43)</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:13" class="time">14:13</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:13"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">I'm actually not sure -6 was the one that fixed davej's laptop</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:13" class="time">14:13</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:13"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144"> warren</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">wwoods, my T60 was suspending/resuming fine both before and after.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:13" class="time">14:13</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:13"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">warren: well, okay then</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:13" class="time">14:13</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:13"><td class="action" colspan="2">* warren will reinstall his T41 tonight to test it there...</td><td><a href="#t14:13" class="time">14:13</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:13"><td class="action" colspan="2">* nirik tries the scratchbuild wireless-tools. Works fine. </td><td><a href="#t14:13" class="time">14:13</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:14"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">that answers that. but it definitely breaks my t43 - see 238792</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:14" class="time">14:14</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:14"><th class="nick" style="background: #854685"> jeremy</th><td class="text" style="color: #854685">wwoods: the fix is probably that quirks are being _passed_ now.  some of the quirks in hal-info may be wrong</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:14" class="time">14:14</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:14"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">jeremy: ahhhh.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:14" class="time">14:14</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:14"><th class="nick" style="background: #854685"> jeremy</th><td class="text" style="color: #854685">(there's been a lot of discussion about that on the hal list)</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:14" class="time">14:14</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:14"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">quirks being passed now seems like a feature</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:14" class="time">14:14</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:14"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">definitely</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:14" class="time">14:14</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:14"><th class="nick" style="background: #854685"> jeremy</th><td class="text" style="color: #854685">f13: bugfix</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:14" class="time">14:14</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:14"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">jeremy: where bug is the feature isn't there?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:14" class="time">14:14</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:15"><th class="nick" style="background: #854685"> jeremy</th><td class="text" style="color: #854685">f13: where bug is without passing the quirks, there's no way in hell for suspend to work on large classes of laptops</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:15" class="time">14:15</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:15"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">okay, let's definitely keep -6 and push davidz or somebody to get the right quirks for t43 et. al.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:15" class="time">14:15</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:15"><th class="nick" style="background: #854685"> jeremy</th><td class="text" style="color: #854685">f13: the quirks were all handled with stuff hardcoded in the scripts in fc6; they moved to being in fdi files for f7</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:15" class="time">14:15</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:15"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">jeremy: were they being passed for some period of time and just not for a short period?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:15" class="time">14:15</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:15"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">ah.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:15" class="time">14:15</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:15"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">the final big pre-freeze problem I want to discuss is mdraid handling</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:15" class="time">14:15</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:16"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">that sounds a bit better, although does that mean we haven't seen these quirks at all during f7 until just now?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:16" class="time">14:16</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:16"><th class="nick" style="background: #854685"> jeremy</th><td class="text" style="color: #854685">wwoods: for the hal stuff, I'll try to get hughsie to take a look</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:16" class="time">14:16</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:16"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">jeremy: that would be fantastic, thank you</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:16" class="time">14:16</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:16"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">wwoods: davidz won't be back until the 20th.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:16" class="time">14:16</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:16"><th class="nick" style="background: #854685"> jeremy</th><td class="text" style="color: #854685">f13: we've seen some of them; suspend/resume is doom :-/</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:16" class="time">14:16</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:16"><th class="nick" style="background: #854685"> jeremy</th><td class="text" style="color: #854685">anyway, mdraid</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:16" class="time">14:16</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:16"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">so it turns out that all my test machines are IDE-free now, so maybe that's why this went on so long, but as far as I can tell</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:16" class="time">14:16</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:16"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">the old raidautorun stuff + IDE = doooom</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:16" class="time">14:16</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:17"><th class="nick" style="background: #4b904b"> notting</th><td class="text" style="color: #4b904b">'the old'?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:17" class="time">14:17</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:17"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">the ioctl that anaconda uses</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:17" class="time">14:17</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:17"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">and the stuff that mkinitrd uses</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:17" class="time">14:17</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:17"><th class="nick" style="background: #4b904b"> notting</th><td class="text" style="color: #4b904b">mkinitrd had a fix to use mdadm go in</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:17" class="time">14:17</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:17"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">they both use the older mdraid metadata, which encodes the rest of the raid set as maj/min device numbers</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:17" class="time">14:17</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:18"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">which obviously explodes when we change all hdX to sdX</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:18" class="time">14:18</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:18"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">notting: yeah, that fix is in mkinitrd (but not tagged for F7)</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:18" class="time">14:18</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:18"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">anaconda will need a similar fix to be able to see pre-f7 mdraid devices that include IDE members</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:18" class="time">14:18</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:19"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">but anaconda just calls the autorun ioctl directly, as far as I can tell</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:19" class="time">14:19</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:19"><th class="nick" style="background: #4b904b"> notting</th><td class="text" style="color: #4b904b">this is 'see them even though they're not referenced by ide device name anywhere on the system'?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:19" class="time">14:19</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:19"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">notting: yeah - they're referenced by ide name in the @#!^!@^ superblock</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:19" class="time">14:19</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:20"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">I need to confirm this, but AFAIK there's a couple different versions of the mdraid metadata, and that ioctl reads the old metadata, which lists the members by maj/min number</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:20" class="time">14:20</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:20"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">mdadm reads the newer metadata, which uses partition uuids to find 'em</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:20" class="time">14:20</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:20"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">so mdadm works</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:20" class="time">14:20</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:21"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">this sounds a lot like pjones land here.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:21" class="time">14:21</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:22"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">yeah, if we decide that This Needs To Be Done then pjones'll be the one doing the heavy lifting, I suspect</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:22" class="time">14:22</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:22"><th class="nick" style="background: #854685"> jeremy</th><td class="text" style="color: #854685">erg.  indeed the major/minor is used there</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:22" class="time">14:22</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:22"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">did he do the mkinitrd change?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:22" class="time">14:22</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:22"><td class="action" colspan="2">* jeremy is looking at the kernel code</td><td><a href="#t14:22" class="time">14:22</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:22"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">jeremy: yeah. facepalm.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:22" class="time">14:22</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:22"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">this is a fairly invasive change to loader this late in the game.. but I'm not sure we have a choice</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:22" class="time">14:22</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:22"><th class="nick" style="background: #854685"> jeremy</th><td class="text" style="color: #854685">the anaconda change is going to be ... less straight-forward, though :-/</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:22" class="time">14:22</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:24"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">jeremy: so.. are we just going to have to make the change and hope everything works out?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:24" class="time">14:24</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:24"><th class="nick" style="background: #854685"> jeremy</th><td class="text" style="color: #854685">wwoods: well, we can do a fair bit of targeted testing on it to make ourselves feel better</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:24" class="time">14:24</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:24"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">I dunno, maybe there's a workaround? tell people to switch to vt2 and run mdadm? or is the impact small enough that we just go for it</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:24" class="time">14:24</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:25"><th class="nick" style="background: #4b904b"> notting</th><td class="text" style="color: #4b904b">really really really could use fixed</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:25" class="time">14:25</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:25"><th class="nick" style="background: #854685"> jeremy</th><td class="text" style="color: #854685">wwoods: the workaround won't work</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:25" class="time">14:25</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:25"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">really really really should have been fixed months ago</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:25" class="time">14:25</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:25"><td class="action" colspan="2">* jeremy really really really filed a bug about it months ago :(</td><td><a href="#t14:25" class="time">14:25</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:25"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">I'm sad that we all missed it or forgot about it</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:25" class="time">14:25</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:25"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">I'm gonna get some IDE drives for my test machines</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:25" class="time">14:25</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:25"><th class="nick" style="background: #4b904b"> notting</th><td class="text" style="color: #4b904b">wwoods: alas, the only box i have with old-ide is my laptop, and i can't really nuke it to test this</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:25" class="time">14:25</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:26"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">yeah, no, I should have caught this months ago</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:26" class="time">14:26</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:26"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144"> warren</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">Which bug number are we discussing?  Is there any concise summary of this problem?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:26" class="time">14:26</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:26"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">so I'll be Super Tester Bitch for it</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:26" class="time">14:26</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:26"><th class="nick" style="background: #854685"> jeremy</th><td class="text" style="color: #854685">notting: well, most of the testing will need to be just general raid testing</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:26" class="time">14:26</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:26"><th class="nick" style="background: #a25555"> jwb</th><td class="text" style="color: #a25555">doesn't qemu present devices as old-ide?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:26" class="time">14:26</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:26"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144"> warren</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">how old IDE are we talking about?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:26" class="time">14:26</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:26"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">warren: there's a bunch. 151653 is the first one</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:26" class="time">14:26</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:26"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">warren: anything that used to be hdX</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:26" class="time">14:26</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:27"><th class="nick" style="background: #854685"> jeremy</th><td class="text" style="color: #854685">jwb: it does</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:27" class="time">14:27</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:27"><th class="nick" style="background: #854685"> jeremy</th><td class="text" style="color: #854685">that's how I tested old ide upgrades :)</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:27" class="time">14:27</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:28"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">231426, 238353, 221696, 213586, 238926</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:28" class="time">14:28</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:29"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">weird that they all end in 3 or 6.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:29" class="time">14:29</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:29"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">some of those are mkinitrd-related and some anaconda-related but it's all the same root cause</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:29" class="time">14:29</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:29"><th class="nick" style="background: #854685"> jeremy</th><td class="text" style="color: #854685">so, can someone talk to peter and see if he has time to spend on it?  if not... then we have to figure out plan b (which probably involves me spending tomorrow on it)</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:29" class="time">14:29</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:30"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">wwoods: you seem to have a good handle on the problem, want to poke peter?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:30" class="time">14:30</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:30"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">f13: sure</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:30" class="time">14:30</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:30"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144"> warren</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">"anaconda fails to bring up raid device whose members have moved"  .... moved means what?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:30" class="time">14:30</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:30"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">warren: changed device name/number</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:30" class="time">14:30</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:30"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">e.g. hda -> sdc</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:30" class="time">14:30</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:30"><th class="nick" style="background: #854685"> jeremy</th><td class="text" style="color: #854685">anything else?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:30" class="time">14:30</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:31"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144"> warren</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">wwoods, this includes renumbering?  Same devices (like sdc1), but md1 inexplicably became md0?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:31" class="time">14:31</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:31"><td class="action" colspan="2">* warren ran into weird behavior like that.</td><td><a href="#t14:31" class="time">14:31</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:31"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">warren: I don't think so?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:31" class="time">14:31</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:31"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">I'm not sure, I can try to investigate further though</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:31" class="time">14:31</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:32"><th class="nick" style="background: #9b519b"> rdieter</th><td class="text" style="color: #9b519b">wrt semi non-trivial kde updates coming down the pike, would I risk a lynching for suggesting including kde-3.5.7 (released to packagers today) in f7-final?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:32" class="time">14:32</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:33"><th class="nick" style="background: #4b904b"> notting</th><td class="text" style="color: #4b904b">yes</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:33" class="time">14:33</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:33"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">probably yes.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:33" class="time">14:33</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:34"><th class="nick" style="background: #9b519b"> rdieter</th><td class="text" style="color: #9b519b">ok, we'll stick with (patched) 3.5.6 for now. :)</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:34" class="time">14:34</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:34"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">oh, dmraid is another thing I see a lot of complaints about, but I have no hardware to test.. and there appears to be a workaround</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:34" class="time">14:34</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:35"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144"> warren</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">dmraid is like HPT and Promise ataraid?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:35" class="time">14:35</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:35"><th class="nick" style="background: #854685"> jeremy</th><td class="text" style="color: #854685">warren: yes</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:35" class="time">14:35</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:35"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">yeah, the fakeraid BIOS-raid stuff</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:35" class="time">14:35</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:35"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144"> warren</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">wwoods, what does the workaround involve?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:35" class="time">14:35</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:35"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">wwoods: I have hardware to test, but just nvidia raid.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:35" class="time">14:35</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:36"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">warren: 234719 - apparently you can run "dmraid -ay" from the console during install and it'll see the devices properly. but then grub won't boot it, so it's not really useful</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:36" class="time">14:36</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:37"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144"> warren</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">wwoods, did dmraid work properly before?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:37" class="time">14:37</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:37"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144"> warren</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">wwoods, FC6 installer?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:37" class="time">14:37</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:37"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">I thought it did - we have install test cases for it</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:37" class="time">14:37</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:37"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">warren: yes.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:37" class="time">14:37</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:37"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">like I said - no hardware, I've never tested it :/</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:37" class="time">14:37</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:38"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144"> warren</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">wwoods, is the broken component of this regression even isolated?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:38" class="time">14:38</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:38"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">I'm going to test dmraid in just a few minutes.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:38" class="time">14:38</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:39"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144"> warren</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">I'm tagging wireless-tools -3 because it isn't worse than -2.  If necessary we'll do a -4.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:39" class="time">14:39</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:40"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">warren: +1</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:40" class="time">14:40</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:40"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">okay, enough bugtalk from me</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:40" class="time">14:40</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:40"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144"> warren</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">We seriously need -3 to be tested not just by x86_64 users, but all users.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:40" class="time">14:40</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:41"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144"> warren</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">we don't want to accidentally break it for everyone else.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:41" class="time">14:41</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:41"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">hopefully we can do a rawhide push after we cram in some more fixes and then see what people think</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:41" class="time">14:41</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:41"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">did we decide on the thursday freeze?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:41" class="time">14:41</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:42"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">no....</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:42" class="time">14:42</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:43"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">wwoods: we got sidetracked by your list of decisions to be made</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:43" class="time">14:43</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:43"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">sorry!</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:43" class="time">14:43</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:43"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">no no, that's good</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:43" class="time">14:43</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:43"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">as we needed to get through that to make a decision.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:43" class="time">14:43</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:43"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">okay, knowing what we know now (there is significant badness but We Have A Plan, By God)</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:43" class="time">14:43</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:43"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">wwoods: do you feel any better about doing the blocker only/branching on Thursday?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:43" class="time">14:43</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:44"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">definitely</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:44" class="time">14:44</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:44"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144"> warren</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">vote on it?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:44" class="time">14:44</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:45"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">the world gets until Thursday for new packages and last-minute updates (and we get a few days to clean up the blocker/target lists)</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:45" class="time">14:45</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:45"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144"> warren</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">f13, when do we decide which blockers we will actually stop release for?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:45" class="time">14:45</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:45"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">after Thursday nothing that does not fix a blocker will be accepted</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:45" class="time">14:45</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:45"><th class="nick" style="background: #97974f"> nirik</th><td class="text" style="color: #97974f">81 still on the fc7blocker...</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:45" class="time">14:45</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:45"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">warren: by definition, all of them, but a lot of things on that list shouldn't be there</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:45" class="time">14:45</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:45"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a"><a href="http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/QA/ReleaseCriteria">http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/QA/ReleaseCriteria</a> is how we're supposed to decide</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:45" class="time">14:45</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:45"><th class="nick" style="background: #9b519b"> rdieter</th><td class="text" style="color: #9b519b">we should work to prune those out (those that don't really belong).</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:45" class="time">14:45</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:46"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">in short - apps that crash on startup, services that won't start, and anything that corrupts data or breaks installs</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:46" class="time">14:46</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:46"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">everything else is a Target</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:46" class="time">14:46</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:46"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">wwoods: presumably we'd have a meeting thursday or earlier to go over the blocker list.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:46" class="time">14:46</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:46"><th class="nick" style="background: #854685"> jeremy</th><td class="text" style="color: #854685">anyone who wants to go through before and prune is welcome :)</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:46" class="time">14:46</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:46"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144"> warren</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">wwoods, or broken deps?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:46" class="time">14:46</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:47"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">Proposal:  Blocker only fixes starting Thursday (branch CVS same day)</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:47" class="time">14:47</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:47"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144"> warren</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">Hmm, do we have a broken dep report after the merge?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:47" class="time">14:47</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:47"><th class="nick" style="background: #854685"> jeremy</th><td class="text" style="color: #854685">f13: +1</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:47" class="time">14:47</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:47"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">repoclose away</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:47" class="time">14:47</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:47"><td class="action" colspan="2">* nirik also thinks broken EVR upgrades must be fixed. (If any)</td><td><a href="#t14:47" class="time">14:47</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:48"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144"> warren</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">Broken EVR paths and broken deps must be fixed before shipping.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:48" class="time">14:48</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:48"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">warren: those could be considered blockers.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:48" class="time">14:48</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:48"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">wwoods: you should add that to your ReleaseCriteria</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:48" class="time">14:48</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:49"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">f13: sure</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:49" class="time">14:49</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:51"><th class="nick" style="background: #4b904b"> notting</th><td class="text" style="color: #4b904b">hee "it seems that it's always the dumper" (re: emacs)</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:51" class="time">14:51</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:51"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">can we get some more votes on the proposal?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:51" class="time">14:51</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:51"><th class="nick" style="background: #4b904b"> notting</th><td class="text" style="color: #4b904b">f13: +1</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:51" class="time">14:51</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:52"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">+1</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:52" class="time">14:52</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:52"><th class="nick" style="background: #9b519b"> rdieter</th><td class="text" style="color: #9b519b">+1</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:52" class="time">14:52</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:53"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144"> warren</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">which proposal specifically?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:53" class="time">14:53</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:53"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">jwb: ping?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:53" class="time">14:53</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:53"><th class="nick" style="background: #a25555"> jwb</th><td class="text" style="color: #a25555">f13, yo</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:53" class="time">14:53</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:53"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">broken EVR paths / broken deps: blocker for all (test & final) releases, or just final?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:53" class="time">14:53</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:53"><th class="nick" style="background: #a25555"> jwb</th><td class="text" style="color: #a25555">f13, i'm like .25% here</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:53" class="time">14:53</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:53"><th class="nick" style="background: #a25555"> jwb</th><td class="text" style="color: #a25555">what's the proposal?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:53" class="time">14:53</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:54"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144"> warren</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">wwoods, just final</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:54" class="time">14:54</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:54"><th class="nick" style="background: #4b904b"> notting</th><td class="text" style="color: #4b904b">wwoods: definitely blocker for final. almost-but-not-quite blocker for test releases</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:54" class="time">14:54</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:54"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144"> warren</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">wwoods, it would have been impossible to fix deps of gaim-* plugins for Test4 for example.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:54" class="time">14:54</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:54"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">jwb: Proposal:  Blocker only fixes starting Thursday (branch CVS same day)</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:54" class="time">14:54</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:54"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">okay, I'll list both as SHOULD</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:54" class="time">14:54</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:54"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144"> warren</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">How about.... fixing deps of stuff included in the spin is a blocker for test and final.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:54" class="time">14:54</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:54"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144"> warren</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">Fixing deps for the entire repo is a blocker for final.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:54" class="time">14:54</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:54"><th class="nick" style="background: #a25555"> jwb</th><td class="text" style="color: #a25555">f13, yes that sounds very sane to me.  and i agree with the broken EVR paths being blocker as well</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:54" class="time">14:54</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:55"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">warren: I wouldn't go that far for test releases.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:55" class="time">14:55</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:55"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">highly desireable, not blocker.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:55" class="time">14:55</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:56"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144"> warren</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">f13, packages within a spin shouldn't have working deps?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:56" class="time">14:56</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:56"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">warren: most should, but I'm not going to complain if some don't, since anaconda will still happily install</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:56" class="time">14:56</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:56"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">or at least it used to.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:56" class="time">14:56</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:56"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">jeremy: will it still?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:56" class="time">14:56</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:57"><th class="nick" style="background: #854685"> jeremy</th><td class="text" style="color: #854685">yes.  what else should we do?  laugh in your face? :)</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:57" class="time">14:57</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:57"><th class="nick" style="background: #a25555"> jwb</th><td class="text" style="color: #a25555">yes</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:57" class="time">14:57</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:57"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">nod</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:57" class="time">14:57</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:57"><th class="nick" style="background: #a25555"> jwb</th><td class="text" style="color: #a25555">you should have laughing ninja kittens</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:57" class="time">14:57</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:58"><th class="nick" style="background: #4b904b"> notting</th><td class="text" style="color: #4b904b">jeremy: steal the g-p-m 'can't suspend' sound</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:58" class="time">14:58</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:58"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">that's why I'm less inclined to drag out a test release freeze cycle waiting for every possible dep to be fixed.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:58" class="time">14:58</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:58"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">so, broken deps for the spin = MUST, broken EVR for entire distro = SHOULD?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:58" class="time">14:58</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:59"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">(where MUST = blocker for test+final and SHOULD = blocker for final)</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:59" class="time">14:59</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:59"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">you're making things complicated</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:59" class="time">14:59</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:59"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144"> warren</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">we need a matrix to visualize this</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:59" class="time">14:59</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:59"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">KISS</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:59" class="time">14:59</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:59"><th class="nick" style="background: #a25555"> jwb</th><td class="text" style="color: #a25555">yes, KISS.  "fix your fscking broken deps"</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:59" class="time">14:59</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:59"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">Broken deps for test == SHOULD>  Broken deps for final == MUST</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:59" class="time">14:59</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:59"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">btw, rawhide + dmraid just booted here.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:59" class="time">14:59</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:00"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">f13: is that broken deps for the entire distro, or just the stuff in the spin?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:00" class="time">15:00</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:00"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">entire distro</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:00" class="time">15:00</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:00"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">since the entire distro is itself a spin</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:00" class="time">15:00</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:01"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">oh, we're doing KitchenSink?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:01" class="time">15:01</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:01"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">wwoods: presumably anybody can by enabling the full repo at install time</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:01" class="time">15:01</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:01"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">we'll do a tree, just no isos</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:01" class="time">15:01</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:02"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">do we consider broken EVR upgrade paths a subset of broken deps, or is that a separate thing?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:02" class="time">15:02</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:02"><th class="nick" style="background: #a25555"> jwb</th><td class="text" style="color: #a25555">separate</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:02" class="time">15:02</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:02"><th class="nick" style="background: #a25555"> jwb</th><td class="text" style="color: #a25555">but it's important</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:02" class="time">15:02</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:02"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144"> warren</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">separate, but equal</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:02" class="time">15:02</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:03"><th class="nick" style="background: #4b904b"> notting</th><td class="text" style="color: #4b904b">oh crap</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:03" class="time">15:03</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:03"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">oh crap?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:03" class="time">15:03</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:03"><th class="nick" style="background: #4b904b"> notting</th><td class="text" style="color: #4b904b">where is the eula for f7 - is it *completely* online?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:03" class="time">15:03</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:03"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">notting: yes.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:03" class="time">15:03</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:03"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">notting: Legal decree, no eula in the distro</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:03" class="time">15:03</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:04"><td class="action" colspan="2">* jwb tries to determine with this has to do with EVR upgrade paths</td><td><a href="#t15:04" class="time">15:04</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:04"><th class="nick" style="background: #4b904b"> notting</th><td class="text" style="color: #4b904b">where is the current eula?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:04" class="time">15:04</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:04"><th class="nick" style="background: #4b904b"> notting</th><td class="text" style="color: #4b904b">jwb: nothing. apologies for the interrupt, want to make sure eula is correct?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:04" class="time">15:04</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:04"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">um...</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:04" class="time">15:04</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:04"><th class="nick" style="background: #a25555"> jwb</th><td class="text" style="color: #a25555">correct as in lacking the "Core"?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:04" class="time">15:04</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:05"><th class="nick" style="background: #4b904b"> notting</th><td class="text" style="color: #4b904b">jwb: and not saying anything outright lying when we have firmware in the distro</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:05" class="time">15:05</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:05"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40"><a href="http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Legal/Licenses/EULA">http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Legal/Licenses/EULA</a></td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:05" class="time">15:05</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:05"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">it still has CORE (:</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:05" class="time">15:05</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:05"><th class="nick" style="background: #a25555"> jwb</th><td class="text" style="color: #a25555">can try....  would rather have gregdk do it though...</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:05" class="time">15:05</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:05"><th class="nick" style="background: #a25555"> jwb</th><td class="text" style="color: #a25555">or someone with access to RH legal</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:05" class="time">15:05</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:06"><th class="nick" style="background: #4b904b"> notting</th><td class="text" style="color: #4b904b">ok. will start working this</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:06" class="time">15:06</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:06"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144"> warren</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">f13, what about name?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:06" class="time">15:06</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:06"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">hrm?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:06" class="time">15:06</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:06"><th class="nick" style="background: #a25555"> jwb</th><td class="text" style="color: #a25555">notting, thx.  if it wasn't legal-ish i would have no issues</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:06" class="time">15:06</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:06"><th class="nick" style="background: #4b904b"> notting</th><td class="text" style="color: #4b904b">warren: names are under review</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:06" class="time">15:06</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:07"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">I guess we voted for the freeze, next topic</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:07" class="time">15:07</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:07"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">well, we're over time anyway.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:07" class="time">15:07</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:07"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144"> warren</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">by an hour =)</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:07" class="time">15:07</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:07"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">these meetings aren't short :(</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:07" class="time">15:07</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:08"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144"> warren</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">who will announce the Thursday freeze?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:08" class="time">15:08</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:08"><th class="nick" style="background: #a25555"> jwb</th><td class="text" style="color: #a25555">f13, want me to update the freeze/release dates?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:08" class="time">15:08</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:08"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">I will.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:08" class="time">15:08</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:08"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144"> warren</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">k</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:08" class="time">15:08</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:08"><th class="nick" style="background: #a25555"> jwb</th><td class="text" style="color: #a25555">ok</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:08" class="time">15:08</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:08"><td class="action" colspan="2">* rdieter is busy with work-stuff atm, ping me if you needed.</td><td><a href="#t15:08" class="time">15:08</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:08"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">jwb: I don't think we changed any dates today.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:08" class="time">15:08</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:08"><th class="nick" style="background: #a25555"> jwb</th><td class="text" style="color: #a25555">f13, well we set the freeze date.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:08" class="time">15:08</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:08"><td class="other" colspan="2">{{Template:Tip}} f13 changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: <a href="http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/FedoraMeetingChannel">http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/FedoraMeetingChannel</a> -- Meetings often get logged -- see schedule in the wiki for next meeting</td><td><a href="#t15:08" class="time">15:08</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:08"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">jwb: it was already set for Thursday</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:08" class="time">15:08</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:09"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">we just confirmed that we didn't need to further move it</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:09" class="time">15:09</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:09"><th class="nick" style="background: #a25555"> jwb</th><td class="text" style="color: #a25555">f13, <a href="http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/7/Schedule">http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/7/Schedule</a></td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:09" class="time">15:09</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:09"><th class="nick" style="background: #a25555"> jwb</th><td class="text" style="color: #a25555">f13, not according to that :)</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:09" class="time">15:09</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:09"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144"> warren</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">f13, even if nothing changed, the warnings should go out.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:09" class="time">15:09</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:09"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">hrm, I thought we changed that last week.  *sigh*</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:09" class="time">15:09</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:10"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">warren: yeah, we're talking about a seperate issue.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:10" class="time">15:10</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:10"><th class="nick" style="background: #a25555"> jwb</th><td class="text" style="color: #a25555">f13, well we had the "thou shalt be done by 31 of May" come down, but i never saw anything about the freeze date</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:10" class="time">15:10</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:10"><th class="nick" style="background: #a25555"> jwb</th><td class="text" style="color: #a25555">f13, anyway, just update it when you send out the announce eh?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:10" class="time">15:10</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:10"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">roger</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:10" class="time">15:10</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:10"><th class="nick" style="background: #a25555"> jwb</th><td class="text" style="color: #a25555">danke</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:10" class="time">15:10</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:11"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">actually we need to be done by 29 May, IIRC</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:11" class="time">15:11</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:11"><th class="nick" style="background: #a25555"> jwb</th><td class="text" style="color: #a25555">yeah, something like that</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:11" class="time">15:11</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:11"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144"> warren</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">gold bits so they can burn it</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:11" class="time">15:11</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:12"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">and synched/burnt by 31</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:12" class="time">15:12</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:13"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">which I'm still kind of thinking may be an act of god.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:13" class="time">15:13</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:13"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">or act of Zod</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:13" class="time">15:13</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:15"><th class="nick" style="background: #a25555"> jwb</th><td class="text" style="color: #a25555">f13, we need to get the updates tags ready...</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:15" class="time">15:15</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:16"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">yeah</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:16" class="time">15:16</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:16"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">I started work on that, got distracted</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:16" class="time">15:16</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:17"><th class="nick" style="background: #a25555"> jwb</th><td class="text" style="color: #a25555">f13, and even if bohdi isn't ready i think we need a way for people to request tagging for updates...</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:17" class="time">15:17</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:17"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">once we branch, the builds will automatically get tagged with the update candidate tag.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:17" class="time">15:17</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:18"><th class="nick" style="background: #a25555"> jwb</th><td class="text" style="color: #a25555">update candidate == updates testing?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:18" class="time">15:18</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:18"><th class="nick" style="background: #a25555"> jwb</th><td class="text" style="color: #a25555">or pre-updates testing?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:18" class="time">15:18</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:18"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">and dist-fc7-updates-candidate tag should be unlocked and will inherit from dist-fc7</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:18" class="time">15:18</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:18"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">both pre-updates teating and updates-testing</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:18" class="time">15:18</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:18"><th class="nick" style="background: #a25555"> jwb</th><td class="text" style="color: #a25555">so anything tagged with update candidate will show up in updates-testing on the mirrors?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:18" class="time">15:18</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:19"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">the current workflow is that a package exsts in dist-fc7-updates-candidate, maintainer requests update through bodhi, it goes out into -testing.  Only when it goes from -testing to -final would it move from dist-fc7-updates-candidate to dist-fc7-updates (and would populate the buildroot)</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:19" class="time">15:19</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:19"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">jwb: only if they go through bodhi</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:19" class="time">15:19</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:19"><th class="nick" style="background: #a25555"> jwb</th><td class="text" style="color: #a25555">ok</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:19" class="time">15:19</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:20"><th class="nick" style="background: #97974f"> nirik</th><td class="text" style="color: #97974f">so whats the path for new packages that were added in this freeze time? they go to updates for f7? or ?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:20" class="time">15:20</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:20"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">nirik: after Thursday, new packages will get a devel/ branch and be tagged with dist-f8</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:20" class="time">15:20</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:20"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">nirik: they can request an F-7 branch, and a build from there will go into the updates pool</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:20" class="time">15:20</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:21"><td class="action" colspan="2">* jwb hopes f13 is logging this</td><td><a href="#t15:21" class="time">15:21</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:21"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">so they'd have to request an 'update' through bodhi.  THis is good as users get new package notifications as well as update notifications.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:21" class="time">15:21</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:21"><th class="nick" style="background: #97974f"> nirik</th><td class="text" style="color: #97974f">so they will need to specially request the f7 branch? that might end up being a lot of packages.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:21" class="time">15:21</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:22"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144"> warren</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">Only four packages in F7 with broken deps that aren't kmod.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:22" class="time">15:22</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:22"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">nirik: no different than requesting the FC-6 branch</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:22" class="time">15:22</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:22"><td class="action" colspan="2">* warren sending mail to owners.</td><td><a href="#t15:22" class="time">15:22</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:22"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">nirik: it would be the standard new package process</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:22" class="time">15:22</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:22"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">nirik: you get devel/ for free, you ask for what other branches you want.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:22" class="time">15:22</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:22"><th class="nick" style="background: #97974f"> nirik</th><td class="text" style="color: #97974f">yeah, but things added in this freeze period might have, fc5/fc6/devel, but no f7... which breaks upgrade paths...</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:22" class="time">15:22</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:23"><th class="nick" style="background: #a25555"> jwb</th><td class="text" style="color: #a25555">nirik, that's already the case</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:23" class="time">15:23</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:23"><th class="nick" style="background: #a25555"> jwb</th><td class="text" style="color: #a25555">today.  now</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:23" class="time">15:23</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:23"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">why would a user ask for FC-5, FC-6, but not F-7 branch?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:23" class="time">15:23</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:23"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">and if they did, why would a cvs admin actually grant that request?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:23" class="time">15:23</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:23"><th class="nick" style="background: #97974f"> nirik</th><td class="text" style="color: #97974f">sure, but once devel is final f7, there will be a hell of a lot more users hitting it.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:23" class="time">15:23</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:23"><th class="nick" style="background: #a25555"> jwb</th><td class="text" style="color: #a25555">nirik, devel already _is_ final f7</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:23" class="time">15:23</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:24"><th class="nick" style="background: #a25555"> jwb</th><td class="text" style="color: #a25555">right NOW</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:24" class="time">15:24</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:24"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">nirik: I think one of us is confusing the other.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:24" class="time">15:24</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:24"><th class="nick" style="background: #97974f"> nirik</th><td class="text" style="color: #97974f">yeah... likely me.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:24" class="time">15:24</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:24"><th class="nick" style="background: #97974f"> nirik</th><td class="text" style="color: #97974f">what I am thinking of is this:</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:24" class="time">15:24</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:24"><th class="nick" style="background: #a25555"> jwb</th><td class="text" style="color: #a25555">f13, users don't ask for fc-5 or fc-6.  they just update and it gets pushed</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:24" class="time">15:24</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:24"><th class="nick" style="background: #97974f"> nirik</th><td class="text" style="color: #97974f">new packge. They request fc5/fc6/devel right now.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:24" class="time">15:24</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:24"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">jwb: we're talking about new packages.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:24" class="time">15:24</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:24"><th class="nick" style="background: #a25555"> jwb</th><td class="text" style="color: #a25555">f13, ah</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:24" class="time">15:24</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:24"><th class="nick" style="background: #97974f"> nirik</th><td class="text" style="color: #97974f">they build for fc5/fc6/devel.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:24" class="time">15:24</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:25"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">nirik: if they ask _right_ _now_ then yes, they have to ask for the build to be tagged for f7-final.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:25" class="time">15:25</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:25"><th class="nick" style="background: #97974f"> nirik</th><td class="text" style="color: #97974f">they don't request the new package for f7 because they don't know about doing that</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:25" class="time">15:25</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:25"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">nirik: if they ask after thursday, devel is now f8, and they'd have to ask for FC-5, FC-6, and F-7</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:25" class="time">15:25</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:25"><th class="nick" style="background: #97974f"> nirik</th><td class="text" style="color: #97974f">branch happens for f7... does there package have a f7 branch?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:25" class="time">15:25</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:25"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">nirik: yes, it would.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:25" class="time">15:25</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:25"><th class="nick" style="background: #a25555"> jwb</th><td class="text" style="color: #a25555">nirik, yes.  requests are only for tags</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:25" class="time">15:25</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:25"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">nirik: at branch time, all active devel/ packages get branched.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:25" class="time">15:25</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:26"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">this hasn't changed.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:26" class="time">15:26</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:26"><td class="action" colspan="2">* jwb wonders if we're talking about rel-eng requests or cvsadmin requests</td><td><a href="#t15:26" class="time">15:26</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:26"><th class="nick" style="background: #97974f"> nirik</th><td class="text" style="color: #97974f">ok, so then their package has a fc5/fc6 and devel (now f8) version, right? what about f7?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:26" class="time">15:26</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:26"><th class="nick" style="background: #a25555"> jwb</th><td class="text" style="color: #a25555">now</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:26" class="time">15:26</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:26"><th class="nick" style="background: #a25555"> jwb</th><td class="text" style="color: #a25555">er, no</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:26" class="time">15:26</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:26"><th class="nick" style="background: #a25555"> jwb</th><td class="text" style="color: #a25555">CVS: cvsadmin request creates fc5/fc6/devel branches</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:26" class="time">15:26</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:26"><th class="nick" style="background: #a25555"> jwb</th><td class="text" style="color: #a25555">branching happens thursday</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:26" class="time">15:26</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:27"><th class="nick" style="background: #a25555"> jwb</th><td class="text" style="color: #a25555">now package has fc5/fc6/fc7/devel</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:27" class="time">15:27</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:27"><th class="nick" style="background: #97974f"> nirik</th><td class="text" style="color: #97974f">ok, and what packages do they have in the repo then?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:27" class="time">15:27</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:27"><th class="nick" style="background: #a25555"> jwb</th><td class="text" style="color: #a25555">yep, getting to that</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:27" class="time">15:27</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:27"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">which repo?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:27" class="time">15:27</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:27"><th class="nick" style="background: #97974f"> nirik</th><td class="text" style="color: #97974f">the cvs side makes sense to me just fine. I think the tags are confusing me.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:27" class="time">15:27</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:27"><th class="nick" style="background: #a25555"> jwb</th><td class="text" style="color: #a25555">plague: user builds.  fc-5/fc-6 have packages in extras repo</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:27" class="time">15:27</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:27"><th class="nick" style="background: #97974f"> nirik</th><td class="text" style="color: #97974f">right</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:27" class="time">15:27</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:28"><th class="nick" style="background: #a25555"> jwb</th><td class="text" style="color: #a25555">koji: user builds.  package is in dist-fc7.  if they want it in f7-final, they email rel-eng and request it</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:28" class="time">15:28</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:28"><th class="nick" style="background: #97974f"> nirik</th><td class="text" style="color: #97974f">ok, say they did not</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:28" class="time">15:28</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:28"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">then the build just sits there.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:28" class="time">15:28</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:28"><th class="nick" style="background: #a25555"> jwb</th><td class="text" style="color: #a25555">if they don't email, it gets inherited to dist-f8, and the package is not available in a f7 repo</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:28" class="time">15:28</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:28"><th class="nick" style="background: #97974f"> nirik</th><td class="text" style="color: #97974f">ok, that is the case I am talking about.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:28" class="time">15:28</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:28"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">and will be picked up once rawhide starts composing from dist-f8</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:28" class="time">15:28</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:28"><th class="nick" style="background: #a25555"> jwb</th><td class="text" style="color: #a25555">nirik, that's true today</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:28" class="time">15:28</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:29"><th class="nick" style="background: #97974f"> nirik</th><td class="text" style="color: #97974f">end user on fc6 installs packageA. Upgrades to f7, and packageA isn't available anymore.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:29" class="time">15:29</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:29"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">nirik: this exists today, which is why so many mails have been sent about requesting tags for yoru builds.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:29" class="time">15:29</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:29"><th class="nick" style="background: #a25555"> jwb</th><td class="text" style="color: #a25555">the broken upgrade paths thing should catch that and send them nag-mail</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:29" class="time">15:29</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:29"><th class="nick" style="background: #97974f"> nirik</th><td class="text" style="color: #97974f">yeah, true... ok.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:29" class="time">15:29</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:30"><th class="nick" style="background: #97974f"> nirik</th><td class="text" style="color: #97974f">do we have a broken upgrade path thing we can run now? the extras one was in the extras push scripts. The core one was part of brew?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:30" class="time">15:30</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:32"><th class="nick" style="background: #a25555"> jwb</th><td class="text" style="color: #a25555">silence</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:32" class="time">15:32</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:32"><th class="nick" style="background: #a25555"> jwb</th><td class="text" style="color: #a25555">i think that means no?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:32" class="time">15:32</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:32"><th class="nick" style="background: #a25555"> jwb</th><td class="text" style="color: #a25555">:)</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:32" class="time">15:32</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:33"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">sorry, went to go get a soda</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:33" class="time">15:33</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:33"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">we're going to have to port the extras one over and make it part of the rawhide compose</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:33" class="time">15:33</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:33"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">I just don't know who's going to be that "we"</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:33" class="time">15:33</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:34"><th class="nick" style="background: #a25555"> jwb</th><td class="text" style="color: #a25555">f13, what do you need access to to test it?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:34" class="time">15:34</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:34"><th class="nick" style="background: #97974f"> nirik</th><td class="text" style="color: #97974f">mschwent mostly wrote it I think... don't know if he would be willing to work on it or not. He sounded kinda burned out in his last few emails.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:34" class="time">15:34</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:34"><th class="nick" style="background: #a25555"> jwb</th><td class="text" style="color: #a25555">he's a bit pissed at the moment</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:34" class="time">15:34</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:35"><th class="nick" style="background: #97974f"> nirik</th><td class="text" style="color: #97974f">yeah. Which is sad. :(</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:35" class="time">15:35</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:36"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">jwb: access to the script, and uh, not sure what it looks at to compare.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:36" class="time">15:36</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:37"><th class="nick" style="background: #a25555"> jwb</th><td class="text" style="color: #a25555">f13, i thought it ran right on the repos at push time</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:37" class="time">15:37</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:38"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">it could, I have no idea</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:38" class="time">15:38</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:39"><td class="action" colspan="2">* jwb goes looking</td><td><a href="#t15:39" class="time">15:39</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:40"><th class="nick" style="background: #97974f"> nirik</th><td class="text" style="color: #97974f"><a href="http://cvs.fedora.redhat.com/viewcvs/upgradecheck/?root=fedora">http://cvs.fedora.redhat.com/viewcvs/upgradecheck/?root=fedora</a></td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:40" class="time">15:40</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:41"><th class="nick" style="background: #a25555"> jwb</th><td class="text" style="color: #a25555">that looks like it should already work?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:41" class="time">15:41</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:41"><th class="nick" style="background: #97974f"> nirik</th><td class="text" style="color: #97974f">yeah, it just might.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:41" class="time">15:41</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:42"><th class="nick" style="background: #a25555"> jwb</th><td class="text" style="color: #a25555">f13, think you can run that inside the colo and see what the results are?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:42" class="time">15:42</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:42"><th class="nick" style="background: #a25555"> jwb</th><td class="text" style="color: #a25555">f13, given that would be fastest...</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:42" class="time">15:42</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:42"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">might be able to</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:42" class="time">15:42</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:42"><th class="nick" style="background: #97974f"> nirik</th><td class="text" style="color: #97974f">I can run it here too, but yeah, slower</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:42" class="time">15:42</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:44"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">it was changed 3 hours ago, maybe somebody is already running it?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:44" class="time">15:44</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:44"><th class="nick" style="background: #a25555"> jwb</th><td class="text" style="color: #a25555">you'd have to ask ville</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:44" class="time">15:44</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:45"><th class="nick" style="background: #a25555"> jwb</th><td class="text" style="color: #a25555">can't hurt though</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:45" class="time">15:45</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:48"><td class="action" colspan="2">* nirik tries a run here. Hopefully not mailing people... ;) </td><td><a href="#t15:48" class="time">15:48</a></td></tr>
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