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(Request Pro Arguments for Empathy)
 
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== Pro Arguments for Empathy ==
== Pro Arguments for Empathy ==
* Voice chat with GoogleTalk (though this will probably need us to look at our firewall rules for this to work out of the box) - bpepple
* Voice chat with GoogleTalk (though this will probably need us to look at our firewall rules for this to work out of the box) - bpepple
* Better GNOME integration the Pidgin - bpepple
** pidgin-2.6.0 supports this.
** This requires non-free codecs from gstreamer plugins to fully interoperate with GoogleTalk, and you need to manually edit your firewall rules. - warren
* Better GNOME integration than Pidgin - bpepple
* Account migration support from Pidgin has been added to Empathy.  Not really a big issue since this feature is for new installs, but still worth pointing out. - bpepple
* Account migration support from Pidgin has been added to Empathy.  Not really a big issue since this feature is for new installs, but still worth pointing out. - bpepple
* Support for Tubes (for AbiWord collaration, etc) - bepple
* Support for Tubes (for AbiWord collaration, etc) - bepple
* Geo Location.  Geo location support was just merged in tp-gabble today, and should hopefully make it into Empathy in time for the F11 release.  More info: http://blog.pierlux.com/2009/01/22/empathy-where-are-you/en/ - bpepple
* Geo Location.  Geo location support was just merged in tp-gabble today, and should hopefully make it into Empathy in time for the F12 release.  More info: http://blog.pierlux.com/2009/01/22/empathy-where-are-you/en/ - bpepple
 
''From the description on Features/Empathy page it is not obvious why the change to Empathy as default should be done. I assume that "Stay in sync with upstream" refers to GNOME. Yes, of course we should have the latest and greatest version of Empathy. But making it default just because it is GNOME would be an bad idea if the alternatives are better. I am sure you have good reason. From the Pro list here I understand that voice chat is the killer feature. And apparently also that you you consider it a more long term solution than Pidgin. Please consider stating the "Benefit to Fedora" more clearly! [[User:Kiilerix|Kiilerix]] 23:04, 25 February 2009 (UTC) ''


== Con Arguments for Empathy ==
== Con Arguments for Empathy ==
* File transfer support currently is only implemented for Link-local XMPP (telepathy-salut) - bpepple
* File transfer support currently is only implemented for Link-local XMPP (telepathy-salut) - bpepple
** Works fine for non local XMPP (telepathy-gabble) too in Fedora 11 - [[User:Bochecha|Mathieu Bridon]] 10:53, 3 June 2009 (UTC)
* Missing plugin system, so many of the add-on features available to Pidgin (like encryption, etc) are not available to Empathy - bpepple
* Missing plugin system, so many of the add-on features available to Pidgin (like encryption, etc) are not available to Empathy - bpepple
* Account dialog still has some issues (like http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=548717), which I'm not sure will be completed before F11 - bpepple
* Account dialog still has some issues (like http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=548717), which I'm not sure will be completed before F11 - bpepple
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** I just tried again, and found that it '''does''' show the channel information nowadays. This has been fixed. - mclasen
** I just tried again, and found that it '''does''' show the channel information nowadays. This has been fixed. - mclasen
* Telepathy-haze multi-protocol support has been a bit spotty.  We seem to get a fair amount of bug reports about the various protocols (yahoo, etc) not  working for folks. - bpepple
* Telepathy-haze multi-protocol support has been a bit spotty.  We seem to get a fair amount of bug reports about the various protocols (yahoo, etc) not  working for folks. - bpepple
** I filed the yahoo not working bug.  Upstream maintainers are very responsive to this sort of thing, and were very quick to fix telepathy-haze.  Yahoo now works again (http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=591381) - caillon
** Not sure whether it is still true, but multi-user chat finally works with tp-haze (it used to be limited just to one-on-one conversation)?
* Empathy is useless behind a proxy. Most corporate and university users can't use empathy at all. Pidgin works fine behind proxy.
* MUC/IRC chat support is a joke. Upstream author have been promising for the last two years xchat-gnome-like interface for Telepathy (or straight rewriting of xchat-gnome to use Telepathy instead of xchat-engine which is there now), but it never came to anything. Without it Empathy is quite hard to be a replacement for pidgin in the multi-person chat area.
* support for VoIP is very immature ... e.g., ekiga.net cannot be used for account (although it has a special icon in the account creation dialog), I was not able to make it reliably work with talk.fp.o account. UI is also quite miserable (again), [https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=16306 no SIP contacts in a buddy list], no history in the call dialog, which is somehow hidden under "Send IM message" dialog.
* supports only GTalk XMPP VoIP, not standardized Jingle XEPs (not that pidgin support would be that great, but at least it is based on standards).


== Misc wish list items ==
== Misc wish list items ==
* Support for logging in with GSSAPI/Kerberos with XMPP.  Pidgin currently supports this, but I'm not 100% sure this should be considered a block for making Empathy the default IM.  [https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=472655 Bug #472655] - bpepple
* Support for logging in with GSSAPI/Kerberos with XMPP.  Pidgin currently supports this, but I'm not 100% sure this should be considered a block for making Empathy the default IM.  [https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=472655 Bug #472655] - bpepple

Latest revision as of 20:13, 1 September 2009

Feature Wrangler Review

  • Please update owner information
    • John, why do you think feature ownership should be limited to individuals ?
    • I'm fine with having the desktop team being the owners, but we need some kind of e-mail addy, so we can contact feature owners on FESCo meeting invites, summaries, etc. - bpepple
      • If FESCo doesn't know how to contact the desktop team, we have a problem...

Pro Arguments for Empathy

  • Voice chat with GoogleTalk (though this will probably need us to look at our firewall rules for this to work out of the box) - bpepple
    • pidgin-2.6.0 supports this.
    • This requires non-free codecs from gstreamer plugins to fully interoperate with GoogleTalk, and you need to manually edit your firewall rules. - warren
  • Better GNOME integration than Pidgin - bpepple
  • Account migration support from Pidgin has been added to Empathy. Not really a big issue since this feature is for new installs, but still worth pointing out. - bpepple
  • Support for Tubes (for AbiWord collaration, etc) - bepple
  • Geo Location. Geo location support was just merged in tp-gabble today, and should hopefully make it into Empathy in time for the F12 release. More info: http://blog.pierlux.com/2009/01/22/empathy-where-are-you/en/ - bpepple

Con Arguments for Empathy

  • File transfer support currently is only implemented for Link-local XMPP (telepathy-salut) - bpepple
    • Works fine for non local XMPP (telepathy-gabble) too in Fedora 11 - Mathieu Bridon 10:53, 3 June 2009 (UTC)
  • Missing plugin system, so many of the add-on features available to Pidgin (like encryption, etc) are not available to Empathy - bpepple
  • Account dialog still has some issues (like http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=548717), which I'm not sure will be completed before F11 - bpepple
  • IRC support (telepathy-idle) sorta sucks in Empathy. for example, chat windows don't show what irc-room it's for. - bpepple
    • I just tried again, and found that it does show the channel information nowadays. This has been fixed. - mclasen
  • Telepathy-haze multi-protocol support has been a bit spotty. We seem to get a fair amount of bug reports about the various protocols (yahoo, etc) not working for folks. - bpepple
    • I filed the yahoo not working bug. Upstream maintainers are very responsive to this sort of thing, and were very quick to fix telepathy-haze. Yahoo now works again (http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=591381) - caillon
    • Not sure whether it is still true, but multi-user chat finally works with tp-haze (it used to be limited just to one-on-one conversation)?
  • Empathy is useless behind a proxy. Most corporate and university users can't use empathy at all. Pidgin works fine behind proxy.
  • MUC/IRC chat support is a joke. Upstream author have been promising for the last two years xchat-gnome-like interface for Telepathy (or straight rewriting of xchat-gnome to use Telepathy instead of xchat-engine which is there now), but it never came to anything. Without it Empathy is quite hard to be a replacement for pidgin in the multi-person chat area.
  • support for VoIP is very immature ... e.g., ekiga.net cannot be used for account (although it has a special icon in the account creation dialog), I was not able to make it reliably work with talk.fp.o account. UI is also quite miserable (again), no SIP contacts in a buddy list, no history in the call dialog, which is somehow hidden under "Send IM message" dialog.
  • supports only GTalk XMPP VoIP, not standardized Jingle XEPs (not that pidgin support would be that great, but at least it is based on standards).

Misc wish list items

  • Support for logging in with GSSAPI/Kerberos with XMPP. Pidgin currently supports this, but I'm not 100% sure this should be considered a block for making Empathy the default IM. Bug #472655 - bpepple