[14:09] any KDE SIG'ers present for a little chat? (: [14:09] yes [14:10] yes [14:10] svahl: can you fill us in on kde livecd status? ( http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SebastianVahl/KDELiveCD ) [14:12] of course. the last week I've played with some configurations for livecd-creator to get a feeling for the size. the usage is quite easy, only a few programs needs more configuration to work properly. [14:13] in the wiki page I've tried to set up two configurations: a really basic on (like fedora-livecd-gnome) and an enhanced one (like fedora-livecd-desktop) [14:14] most of the packages in the second one are just suggestions to fill the cd [14:14] I like the KDE-Desktop-LiveCD pkg list, which, imo, is what we should focus on. [14:14] think also so [14:15] one problem I had is to localize the cd. kde-i18n-* and koffice-langpack-* are too big to fit on one cd without leaving out some essentials. [14:15] i've noticed there is a basket-kontact package [14:15] mether: ping, I saw you had comments on the livecd on fedora-desktop, anything to add? [14:15] perhaps we should include that as well [14:16] basket-kontact (last I knew) reliably crashed kontact. omit until fixed, imo. [14:16] ChitleshGoorah, haven't noticed it. will have a look at it. [14:16] I'm using the fc6 version. It's fine :) [14:16] rdieter, yes: now i think we should only use two configurations: 1 full live-cd and a live-dvd with localization [14:17] can you clarify one thing to me? [14:17] svahl: how much space did kde-i18n-* and koffice-langpack-* add? Perhaps we could pick-n-choose languages for the livecd. [14:17] we will have : [14:17] the problem for now is, that livecd-creator do not support creating dvds [14:17] a live kde spin and a install kde spin, right ? [14:18] rdieter, the downloaded rpms use ~350MB. [14:18] ChitleshGoorah: up until now, the plan was to do kde spin first, then try livecd if we had time. svahl volunteered to work on the livecd part. [14:19] svahl: my CD vs DVD knowledge is lacking, but I had assumed it's pretty much exactly the same format. ?? [14:19] there are a lot of patches roaming on the livecd ML, svahl have you seen any update on the srpm your provided ? [14:19] I've created an iso last week with kde-i18n. The only other packages I could include: kdelibs, arts, kdebase, kdeaccessibility, kdeartwork, kdebindings, kdegraphics, kdenetwork,kdepim, kdenetworkmanager [14:19] size of the iso: 690 mb [14:20] svahl: yuck, yep too big. Like I said, may have to pick-n-choose languages (if at all) for now. [14:20] rdieter, the problem creating a dvd is that livecd-creator is hardcoded to use only 3gb ob space for creating the iso [14:20] svahl: imo, you can leave kdebindings out. [14:20] svalh: ok, so limit ourselves to 3gb. (: [14:20] for now... [14:20] see: https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-livecd-list/2007-March/msg00052.html [14:20] +1 rdieter and at the same time i guess the srpms split hasn't been considered [14:21] and leave kde*-extras out. [14:21] oh. 3Gb of installed packages, not the size of the dvd [14:21] ChitleshGoorah: you're refereing to -extras' splits? [14:21] creating a 700MB CD would take 2-2,5 GB [14:21] yes, there isn't any progress in that direction [14:22] ChitleshGoorah: there won't be until packages are first reviewed and merged. [14:23] but, it would be better before the review [14:23] reviewing/merging is prereq to pretty much everything else. [14:23] after the review the packager will be on his own [14:23] ChitleshGoorah: sure, but than has to focus his time on something, and I'd rather that be to merging and processing reviews. [14:24] if he has spare time, fine. (but I don't think he does...) [14:24] good then [14:24] so afterwards extensive testing should be carried out [14:25] svahl: maybe when livecd maintainer (finally) responds to review, and imports into Fedora cvs, we can get more things fixed. [14:25] i spoke to some kde folks at chemnitz linuxtag, [14:25] hope so [14:25] Chitlesh...: go on... (: [14:25] the openoffice dialog of fedora is of gtk [14:26] if we are looking forward a KDE (pure) we should consider building openoffice for kde dialog support [14:26] sure, there's a kde one, but imo, they both pretty much suck equally. (: (caveat: experience based on ooo1) [14:26] or perhaps opt the kubuntu/opensuse idea [14:27] I don't think the goal is for a "pure" KDE. I'd rather call our efforts a KDE-centric. [14:27] besides, tacking ooo ourselves is a *huge* undertaking, unless ooo maintainer is willing to do it. [14:28] if i come up with a solution, I gues you can consider it, right ? :) [14:28] of course. [14:28] anything else (other than ooo)? [14:28] good, i'll do the research [14:30] two basic questions for livecd again: would we ship firefox (+30MB iso size) or firefox/evolution (+60MB)? [14:30] firefox only [14:31] svahl, imo, *only* if space allows. [14:31] forget about evolution [14:32] http://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-ambassadors-list/2007-March/msg00049.html [14:32] I'll represent kde at Cebit in 2 weeks [14:32] and at the same time, I'll be in contact with some kde folks [14:32] perhaps before then, we can come up with something [14:33] if anything you guys want me to discuss drop me a mail [14:33] i was looking forward for the livecd spin [14:34] :) svahl and I can work to smooth the edges till then :) [14:34] :) [14:35] I've noticed for me some configurations and their target sizes. It could help for comparison: http://www.deadbabylon.de/files/KDE-Live-CD [14:35] is there any tarball or srpm for the flying high theme ? [14:35] ask fedora-artwork... (: [14:36] let me make a livecd trial first, then we'll see about those eye-candy stuffs [14:37] ChitleshGoorah, I will upload some rpms later this evening (GMT+1). For those I will use only the basic kde packages and some addons (k3b, amarok, digikam). [14:37] I see svahl , if we remove those -extras we can save space [14:38] +1 remove kde*-extras [14:38] k [14:38] Hrm, maybe keep kdeartwork-extras, until after merge (it's got all the good screensavers) [14:39] ups. the last one (TRY 006) with the basic packages has a iso size of 659 MB (i386 rawhide) [14:39] rdieter: can you apply the split for kdenetwork, I'll review it then [14:40] it wouldn't take much time as i already know that package [14:40] I'd much rather apply package modifcations post-review. [14:40] oki then [14:42] so that's it ? [14:42] mether: any comments on livecd? [14:42] I think we should not include firefox. It is too big [14:43] I'm ok with omitting it, but it'd be a shame to omit it if we had space for it. [14:43] but I don't know how many kde users would be angry then :) [14:43] good, leave it then [14:44] Rahul Sanduram suggested on fedora-desktop to use dolphin as default file-manager (like in KDE4). What do you think about that? [14:44] just focus on maximizing the usability of the livecd. If the space can be used for other well-deserving apps, go with that. [14:45] svahl: no opinion, yet, haven't used dolphin all that much. [14:45] me too [14:45] I'm packaging dolphine for fedora. I'll say let's stick to konqueror for now [14:46] I think it's too much an unknown to rely on, maybe include it in the spin/livecd yes, more than that, I'm not sure. [14:46] but I don't think that we sould do so. konqueror is the default file-manager in KDE3 and KDE4 with an polished dolphin isn't ready yet [14:46] if there are nice enhancements on dolphin, we can consider it, but for now, it is only a baby style file-manager [14:46] not include it at all? I don't care much either way. [14:47] do what you think is best for now (probably opt to save space). [14:47] 1. we have to save space [14:48] 2. with the space left we should consider what could be include for more usualibilty [14:48] and we have konqueror already (and probably krusader) [14:48] IMHO, Dolphin is really not ready to become the default. All the cool new features (e.g. file tree view) are still being developed, and possibly (probably?) only in the KDE 4 version. [14:48] (directory tree view, that is) [14:48] and thats another point: Should we include applications with duplicate functionality? [14:49] svahl: imo, no, at least avoid that if you can. [14:49] svahl: these will be moved to -extras [14:49] yeah, that's the whole point of splitting F7's kde packages into main and -extras bits. [14:49] ok. then should amarok also be the default music application? [14:49] The question is: what exactly is duplicate functionality? Does Krusader really duplicate the functionality of Konqueror or Dolphin, for example? [14:49] the -extras bits will be less-desirable, duplicate functionality stuff. [14:49] good point [14:50] amrok? most definitely. [14:50] noatun,juk will either be omitted altogether, or put in kdemm-extras (vs. amarok). [14:50] ok [14:51] ok [14:51] I'll start to focus kde spin work on the pkgmanifest, using comps.xml style (which pungi now supports) [14:52] I'll update the wiki asap on that. [14:52] in short, modify comps-fe7.xml to set our "default" apps from type=optional to type=default (in the kde-desktop section) [14:52] and I will add an section for the live cd [14:52] svahl: thanks, please do. [14:53] hopefully, we can overlap livecd apps/spin-defaults as much as possible. [14:54] fyi, if you want to continue discussions to a mailing list, please use fedora-desktop ml. [14:55] running out of time today, any other topics? [14:55] yes. I will reply to my thread asap when the wiki page is written and I've created the (new) basic configuration to discuss about that [14:56] ChitleshGoorah: can you post today's log? (I can otherwise) [14:59] meeting to end in 60... [15:00] ok. bye [15:01] meeting closed, thanks everyone.