Apr 28 18:04:18 rdieter	KDE SIG Meeting start, who's present today
Apr 28 18:04:31 svahl	present
Apr 28 18:04:35 ltinkl	present
Apr 28 18:04:37 *	rdieter hat das Thema geändert zu: KDE SIG Meeting -- https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/KDE/Meetings/2009-04-28 -- Init
Apr 28 18:04:42 Kevin_Kofler	Present.
Apr 28 18:04:45 jreznik	present
Apr 28 18:05:29 rdieter	svahl, than, ltinkl, SMParrish, kde*foo: ping
Apr 28 18:05:38 *	SMParrish here
Apr 28 18:05:42 than	present
Apr 28 18:06:12 svahl	already here
Apr 28 18:06:49 rdieter	ok, agenda item 1: Qt 4.5.1 regressions - https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=497658
Apr 28 18:06:51 buggbot	Bug 497658: medium, low, ---, than, NEW, Qt-4.5.1 Tracker
Apr 28 18:06:57 *	rdieter hat das Thema geändert zu: KDE SIG Meeting -- https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/KDE/Meetings/2009-04-28 -- Qt 4.5.1 regressions - https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=497658
Apr 28 18:08:18 rdieter	the worst regression is notification misrendering, most visible in stuff like kopete and kpackagekit
Apr 28 18:08:38 Kevin_Kofler	The thing is: we have one serious regression and a second one we wouldn't like to push Qt 4.5.1 with either.
Apr 28 18:08:39 rdieter	action/close buttons missing
Apr 28 18:08:47 Kevin_Kofler	The notification breakage is really bad.
Apr 28 18:08:57 Kevin_Kofler	But we should also try to get rssnow fixed.
Apr 28 18:09:02 than	before the regression aren't fixed we cannot push qt-4.5.1
Apr 28 18:09:09 Kevin_Kofler	+1
Apr 28 18:09:09 rdieter	than: +1, no way around it
Apr 28 18:09:13 SMParrish	+1
Apr 28 18:09:20 Kevin_Kofler	We can't push a Qt which breaks KPackageKit.
Apr 28 18:09:25 ltinkl	is it a regression between 4.5.0 and 4.5.1?
Apr 28 18:09:30 Kevin_Kofler	ltinkl: Yes.
Apr 28 18:09:44 ltinkl	oxygen style only, or all?
Apr 28 18:09:46 jreznik	it's fixed upstream
Apr 28 18:09:50 Kevin_Kofler	There was also a serious SVG rendering regression, but that one got fixed in qt-copy.
Apr 28 18:09:58 jreznik	http://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=190786
Apr 28 18:10:01 buggbot	Bug 190786: normal, NOR, ---, r scheepmaker student utwente nl, RESOLVED FIXED, Buttons on notifications are misplaced to the right (Qt4 5 1)
Apr 28 18:10:01 rdieter	kde upstream (aseigo in particular) is pretty sure it's qt bugs here
Apr 28 18:11:03 rdieter	oh yay
Apr 28 18:11:08 Kevin_Kofler	Looks like the notification one is a KDE bug after all.
Apr 28 18:11:17 than	hm it seems so
Apr 28 18:11:18 Kevin_Kofler	Or at least can be worked around in KDE.
Apr 28 18:11:23 Kevin_Kofler	http://websvn.kde.org/?view=rev&revision=960132
Apr 28 18:11:25 jreznik	one liner
Apr 28 18:11:26 rdieter	heh, volunteer to snag that patch, and do a test build?
Apr 28 18:11:44 Kevin_Kofler	Now we just need to know what's up with rssnow...
Apr 28 18:11:44 ltinkl	I will
Apr 28 18:12:29 ltinkl	jreznik: should I do it or will you?
Apr 28 18:12:41 than	ltinkl, please add comments in bugzilla when you test the patch
Apr 28 18:12:43 Kevin_Kofler	It may need some bizarre workaround like the one I did for kde-plasma-weather for 4.5.0 (I added a manual resize to some fixed size, interestingly the resize from the PopupApplet class works then, so the hardcoded size isn't actually used).
Apr 28 18:12:57 ltinkl	than: ok
Apr 28 18:13:32 jreznik	ltinkl: could you? or tomorrow - I have clean F11 laptop here...
Apr 28 18:13:47 ltinkl	jreznik: k, I'll do it
Apr 28 18:13:56 rdieter	rock.  anyone have ideas on the qdevelop thing?
Apr 28 18:14:16 *	ltinkl has no idea, never used/seen it
Apr 28 18:15:02 rdieter	ok, move on then?
Apr 28 18:15:03 than	i will take a look at this qdevelop
Apr 28 18:18:01 *	rdieter hat das Thema geändert zu: KDE SIG Meeting -- https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/KDE/Meetings/2009-04-28 -- KDE 4.2.3
Apr 28 18:18:28 rdieter	next item: kde-4.2.3.  rumor has it that it will be tagged and tar'd for packagers within a day or 2
Apr 28 18:18:50 ltinkl	tagging happens today
Apr 28 18:18:58 ltinkl	just got a mail from dirk
Apr 28 18:19:03 ltinkl	sry, tomorrow
Apr 28 18:19:04 Kevin_Kofler	ltinkl: The latest from Dirk is tomorrow at 23:59 UTC.
Apr 28 18:19:09 ltinkl	ye
Apr 28 18:19:09 Kevin_Kofler	Right.
Apr 28 18:19:20 Kevin_Kofler	So that would mean tarballs ~2 days from now.
Apr 28 18:19:22 rdieter	cool, personally, I think we should continue to focus on F-11-related issues on kde-4.2.2, before jumping on 4.2.3...
Apr 28 18:19:36 rdieter	still, that's what the devel/ branch is for, if someone has an itch
Apr 28 18:19:48 ltinkl	we might see some qt 4.5.1 - KDE 4.2.3 regressions, remember =)
Apr 28 18:20:10 Kevin_Kofler	Actually 4.2.3 has the patch for the notification regression with 4.5.1 already. :-)
Apr 28 18:20:12 ltinkl	I'm wondering which one to roll out first
Apr 28 18:20:15 jreznik	is it reported upstream?
Apr 28 18:20:34 ltinkl	bb jreznik :p
Apr 28 18:20:36 rdieter	jreznik: yes (don't have the bug# handy atm)
Apr 28 18:21:20 rdieter	jreznik: I can find it, if you want
Apr 28 18:21:42 rdieter	https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=177154
Apr 28 18:21:45 buggbot	Bug 177154: normal, NOR, ---, r scheepmaker student utwente nl, NEW, Plasma notification style ignores some parameters in KNotification::event
Apr 28 18:24:00 rdieter	so... what do you are think we should do or plan for wrt 4.2.3 ?
Apr 28 18:24:27 Kevin_Kofler	Speaking of 4.2.3: upstream now has GCC 4.4 and glibc 2.9 fixes for kdelibs (which are better than our current workarounds) in trunk, I think we should backport them to the upstream 4.2 branch, they'll benefit all distros.
Apr 28 18:24:33 Kevin_Kofler	I can do that.
Apr 28 18:25:08 Kevin_Kofler	I think nobody should object to fixing things (there's 2 glibc 2.9 build fixes and the proper fix for the dtoa.cpp aliasing problem).
Apr 28 18:25:44 rdieter	I'm ok with that
Apr 28 18:25:47 ltinkl	I did the dtoa fix earlier today
Apr 28 18:25:49 than	Kevin_Kofler, +1
Apr 28 18:26:08 than	it's the same fix what is committed in firefox
Apr 28 18:26:23 than	and it's the correct fix
Apr 28 18:26:26 Kevin_Kofler	ltinkl: In our packages, I want to commit it to upstream 4.2.
Apr 28 18:26:44 Kevin_Kofler	It's clearly a bugfix, and an important one at that.
Apr 28 18:26:50 than	Kevin_Kofler, it's fine if we have them in 4.2 branch
Apr 28 18:27:57 than	Kevin_Kofler, i hope Alex wont complain the fix for  glibc 2.9/gcc-4.4
Apr 28 18:30:07 rdieter	ok, move on... lastly  https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=488737
Apr 28 18:30:10 buggbot	Bug 488737: medium, low, ---, rdieter, CLOSED WONTFIX, Disable Plasma notifications for jobs
Apr 28 18:30:17 *	rdieter hat das Thema geändert zu: KDE SIG Meeting -- https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/KDE/Meetings/2009-04-28 -- https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=488737
Apr 28 18:30:34 than	we will 0-day update for KDE-4.2.3
Apr 28 18:30:41 than	s/will/will do
Apr 28 18:30:47 rdieter	than: +1
Apr 28 18:31:19 rdieter	I suppose I jumpted the gun closing that bug, but now that we have notifications working as advertised, I think it a really really really bad idea to circumvent them by default
Apr 28 18:31:57 Kevin_Kofler	Re 4.2.3 as 0-day update, I think there are no objections to that. While I'm not too happy about this not going in, there's really not enough time to test it properly for the release and rel-eng won't like the idea either.
Apr 28 18:32:10 Kevin_Kofler	An update is the safest solution.
Apr 28 18:32:24 Kevin_Kofler	rdieter: Do the notifications for jobs also work as advertised?
Apr 28 18:32:35 Kevin_Kofler	Just today someone complained on #fedora-kde that they still vanish.
Apr 28 18:32:43 Kevin_Kofler	(before the download is completed)
Apr 28 18:32:51 rdieter	the "I" should remain in the task bar
Apr 28 18:32:57 rdieter	now, before it would vanish
Apr 28 18:33:11 SMParrish	Kevin_Kofler: That person was not aware it went to the tray
Apr 28 18:33:39 rdieter	it's still not perfect, but not nearly as bad as it was before
Apr 28 18:33:56 MathStuf	Kevin_Kofler: they still do here; when was this to be fixed?
Apr 28 18:33:58 Kevin_Kofler	It horribly sucks as a UI, but at least it's not completely unshippable now.
Apr 28 18:34:14 Kevin_Kofler	Assuming it really does show up in the tray.
Apr 28 18:34:30 rdieter	MathStuf: kdebase-runtime-4.2.2-4 has the fix
Apr 28 18:34:43 MathStuf	rdieter: i don't think i ever saw the 'i' disappear before the transfer was complete, only the box for the transfer
Apr 28 18:34:48 SMParrish	Been working fine for me here on rawhide
Apr 28 18:35:06 MathStuf	i have that
Apr 28 18:35:11 rdieter	right, the box disappears, but you can still get to it by clicking the "i".  Before, the I wouldn't be persistent
Apr 28 18:35:23 MathStuf	hmm
Apr 28 18:35:53 MathStuf	i thought it was, but its not somethingi realized before if it did happen
Apr 28 18:35:57 rdieter	MathStuf: that's the "not perfect part", but at least it's accessible now
Apr 28 18:36:31 rdieter	in 4.3 if there's hidden items, I think the taskbar "I' will throb or animate somehow
Apr 28 18:36:37 MathStuf	cool
Apr 28 18:37:46 Kevin_Kofler	Yuck!
Apr 28 18:38:03 Kevin_Kofler	Why can't the popup just stay open as long as it's current?
Apr 28 18:38:17 Kevin_Kofler	IMHO this Plasma notification system sucks and we should be using the old ones.
Apr 28 18:38:48 rdieter	the theory is good, I agree with you that for long running items (file copies), a persistent popup would be preferable
Apr 28 18:38:50 MathStuf	i don't like the windows popping up in "random" (best-fit) spots on my screen, so having a central place for them is better IMO
Apr 28 18:39:18 Kevin_Kofler	What's good about some crazy animation rather than just keeping the popups open?
Apr 28 18:39:28 jreznik	and systray resizing when info icon appears...
Apr 28 18:39:52 jreznik	or this systray icon should be animated
Apr 28 18:40:39 MathStuf	Kevin_Kofler: if there are some keep-until-interacted-with notifications, id like to know that there are some rather than a mile-high stack of boxes
Apr 28 18:41:05 Kevin_Kofler	Well, I guess some people like it. :-)
Apr 28 18:41:20 MathStuf	though notifications should be "joinable"
Apr 28 18:41:28 Kevin_Kofler	I still like my old-fashioned progress dialogs. :-)
Apr 28 18:41:41 rdieter	that was pretty much it for the agenda, anything else for today?
Apr 28 18:41:42 MathStuf	feed/knode/mail notifications merge instead of being beside each other for each fetch
Apr 28 18:41:54 *	rdieter hat das Thema geändert zu: KDE SIG Meeting -- https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/KDE/Meetings/2009-04-28 -- open discussion
Apr 28 18:42:10 SMParrish	What I dont like is the Qt-subaplication that shows up in the task switcher when a notification is present
Apr 28 18:42:27 MathStuf	SMParrish: hmm?
Apr 28 18:42:31 MathStuf	i don't see that
Apr 28 18:42:51 MathStuf	kwin makes transparency different, but there's no entry in the task tray
Apr 28 18:42:54 Kevin_Kofler	MathStuf: Grouping the progress reports together is actually what the whole point of showing the progress inside the Plasma notifications is for.
Apr 28 18:43:10 SMParrish	you have to alt-tab with a notification window present to see it
Apr 28 18:43:25 MathStuf	hmm
Apr 28 18:43:35 MathStuf	when the next one shows up, I'll look at its KWin flags
Apr 28 18:43:52 MathStuf	Kepp Above and No Border are set
Apr 28 18:43:55 MathStuf	*Keep
Apr 28 18:44:27 MathStuf	should probably have "All Desktops" set
Apr 28 18:44:45 MathStuf	since it only appears on the desktop it spawned on currently
Apr 28 18:44:58 Kevin_Kofler	Another complaint about the Plasma notifications for job progress:
Apr 28 18:45:02 Kevin_Kofler	<Tuju> is there coming improvement for progress bar dialog
Apr 28 18:45:03 Kevin_Kofler	<Tuju> kde3 one displayed remainig time, full path etc and this new one shows only speed and size.
Apr 28 18:45:04 MathStuf	but afaik, its a call to KWindowSystem to set that
Apr 28 18:45:33 MathStuf	i have src/dest here on my notifications
Apr 28 18:45:39 MathStuf	I'll try to get a screenshot
Apr 28 18:46:06 Tuju	MathStuf: so do i, but path names are so long that it chops them useless.
Apr 28 18:46:25 MathStuf	yeah, it elides them; they're not copyable from highlight and click?
Apr 28 18:46:33 Tuju	i don't think so
Apr 28 18:46:41 Tuju	neither you can't stretch the window
Apr 28 18:47:02 Tuju	actually my good windows user friend made the notification floating and then we were in trouble
Apr 28 18:47:08 Tuju	you couldn't get rid of it.
Apr 28 18:47:23 MathStuf	hrm...need a larger file to actually have a persistent transfer up
Apr 28 18:48:11 Tuju	or the fact that notification is not a window, might be the partil root of the problems.
Apr 28 18:48:33 MathStuf	hmm...yeah, src/dest is not selectable/copyable
Apr 28 18:48:44 Tuju	i'm not completely against the whole notification thing, but it definately needs some improvement.
Apr 28 18:49:27 Tuju	i think it suffers a bit from so called Dublo syndrome.
Apr 28 18:49:29 MathStuf	SMParrish: following flags are set for notification windows: Keep above, Noborder, skip taskbar, skip pager
Apr 28 18:49:51 MathStuf	should also have Desktop: All i think
Apr 28 18:51:16 MathStuf	so if its appearing in the taskbar -> KWin bug?
Apr 28 18:55:56 Kevin_Kofler	OK, anything else?
Apr 28 18:56:37 Kevin_Kofler	Oh, and MathStuf: it's a bug in whatever is displaying the tasklist which is showing the notification.
Apr 28 18:56:50 Kevin_Kofler	"skip taskbar, skip pager" is pretty clear about what should happen.
Apr 28 18:57:20 MathStuf	k
Apr 28 18:57:40 MathStuf	i had a bug a while ago where kontact would show up n the task list despite having the flags set
Apr 28 18:57:54 MathStuf	restarting it would have the task list obey them
Apr 28 18:58:02 Kevin_Kofler	Most likely the same bug.
Apr 28 18:59:26 rdieter	times up, lets close up, thanks everyone.
Apr 28 18:59:31 rdieter	KDE SIG Meeting End