Mai 08 22:00:21 svahl	ok.anybody here for kde sig meeting?
Mai 08 22:02:01 Kevin_Kofler	Well, I'm here, but I don't have anything to discuss really. I'll need at least one more week to get a draft KDE 4 plan for F8 up for discussion.
Mai 08 22:03:15 svahl	ok. that should be ok, I think because Rex or Than are not present
Mai 08 22:03:49 svahl	but Kevin, maybe this bug might be interesting for you? https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=238849
Mai 08 22:04:07 svahl	I've noticed this one since the integration of ConsoleKit into kdebase
Mai 08 22:04:52 *	wwoods still wants someone from the KDE SIG to talk to about KDE testing status
Mai 08 22:05:05 G	I'm here
Mai 08 22:05:11 wwoods	especially because I want to make sure any big KDE issues are on the F7 blocker list before it's too late
Mai 08 22:05:19 wwoods	it'd be good to have someone who knew what the big KDE issues were
Mai 08 22:06:00 svahl	this would be Rex, but he's not here (on flight to red hat summit)
Mai 08 22:06:36 svahl	for livecd my biggest ones are: #239300 and #239293
Mai 08 22:06:54 svahl	or, of course. than
Mai 08 22:06:59 wwoods	I think those are fixed
Mai 08 22:07:15 Kevin_Kofler	svahl: That one could be due to the ConsoleKit integration being incomplete/buggy, indeed.
Mai 08 22:07:21 wwoods	see comment #1 in 239300
Mai 08 22:07:37 Kevin_Kofler	Is there any chance you can do more debugging? For example, does $XDG_SESSION_COOKIE get set properly?
Mai 08 22:07:55 svahl	wwoods, yes. just want to mention this
Mai 08 22:07:59 Kevin_Kofler	(AFAIK, if you open a Konsole and echo it, it should just show up.)
Mai 08 22:08:19 svahl	Kevin_Kofler, will do this after the meeting
Mai 08 22:10:51 wwoods	svahl: yep! the most recent package has been tagged for f7-final - see http://koji.fedoraproject.org/koji/buildinfo?buildID=6332
Mai 08 22:11:01 wwoods	so if jeremy has time to make LiveCDs this week, that fix should be included
Mai 08 22:11:16 Kevin_Kofler	Running ck-list-sessions and posting the output will also be useful.
Mai 08 22:11:52 Kevin_Kofler	Oh, and if you can compare it to ck-list-sessions and echo $XDG_SESSION_COOKIE for GDM, that would be even more helpful, I think.
Mai 08 22:12:10 svahl	wwoods, ok. good to know. though #239293 is only "half" fixed
Mai 08 22:13:00 svahl	Kevin_Kofler, I will try that directly from livecd. But atm I need this machine :)  If you know another hint, please let me know
Mai 08 22:13:26 *	Benachrichtigung: rdieter ist online (heinlein.freenode.net).
Mai 08 22:13:27 *	rdieter (n=rdieter@sting.unl.edu) hat #fedora-meeting betreten
Mai 08 22:14:19 G	Just a couple of notes, before I have to pop away for a few, I'm willing to review Rex's pykdeextentions and guidance packages sometime this week, and I'm also thinking of packaging kphone
Mai 08 22:15:03 G	(unless someone else already is planning on packaging kphone)
Mai 08 22:15:04 wwoods	svahl: oh, it starts up in the wrong mode? seems like an EasyFix bug, maybe we can get that done for final
Mai 08 22:15:06 svahl	G, this kphone? http://download.fedora.redhat.com/pub/fedora/linux/extras/6/i386/repoview/kphone.html
Mai 08 22:15:40 G	svahl: hmmm, in that case, I should hit the wiki wishlist, I thought I saw it, but I hadn't bothered to check yet
Mai 08 22:15:49 Kevin_Kofler	rdieter: I'll try to get a draft KDE 4 F8 plan up for discussion for next week.
Mai 08 22:15:51 svahl	wwoods, yes. this should be a small fix. It was my fault to not mention it in the bug report
Mai 08 22:15:55 Kevin_Kofler	By the way, Qt 4.3 RC1 is out.
Mai 08 22:16:03 rdieter	here on a *real* slow connection...
Mai 08 22:16:23 svahl	Hi rdieter 
Mai 08 22:16:42 wwoods	svahl: I'll add both of those to the LiveCD blocker - is this a LiveCD-only problem, or is it a general F7 problem?
Mai 08 22:16:43 rdieter	Kevin_Kofler: looks like most of the parallel-install issues should be sorted out, so we'll hopefully get to avoid /opt/kde4
Mai 08 22:17:19 G	svahl: there, if it's already in, I've fixed the wishlist
Mai 08 22:17:20 svahl	wwoods, I've workarounded it on livecd since test3 because I've misread another bug. The problem would occur _after_ installation
Mai 08 22:17:38 wwoods	but only if you install from LiveCD?
Mai 08 22:18:07 svahl	yes. on a "prime" installation firefox and evolution would be installed. On the livecd we don't include them
Mai 08 22:19:08 rdieter	G: talked with guidance devs (kubuntu folks), and I'll be fixing its packaging soon, so no need to review what's there now/as-is.
Mai 08 22:19:40 Kevin_Kofler	rdieter: Great. I'll probably keep using /opt/kde4 for the F<=7 packages though so kdebase4 can be installed next to kdebase (3). But I really hope we can get rid of it for F8.
Mai 08 22:20:07 rdieter	KK: I hope to get rid of it for everybody, asap. :)
Mai 08 22:20:36 Kevin_Kofler	I can do that too in principle, but for F<=7, this means not packaging stuff like Konqueror 4.
Mai 08 22:20:46 rdieter	why not?
Mai 08 22:20:53 Kevin_Kofler	Because we don't want to replace the /usr/bin/konqueror and so from F7.
Mai 08 22:20:56 G	rdieter: but pykdeextensions seems okay right?
Mai 08 22:21:01 rdieter	G: yes
Mai 08 22:21:22 rdieter	KK: they (supposedly) can be side-by-side (haven't confirmed myself)
Mai 08 22:21:36 Kevin_Kofler	They need different executable names for sure.
Mai 08 22:21:37 rdieter	KK: I suppose the menus miht be confusing
Mai 08 22:21:44 Kevin_Kofler	And not just Konqueror, but kcontrol, kwrite etc. too.
Mai 08 22:21:57 rdieter	KK: that's supposedly fixed. ???
Mai 08 22:22:10 Kevin_Kofler	Oh, it is?
Mai 08 22:22:33 Kevin_Kofler	So they're using konqueror4 etc. now?
Mai 08 22:22:44 Kevin_Kofler	Because we sure can't have 2 files named /usr/bin/konqueror. ;-)
Mai 08 22:23:03 rdieter	KK: that's the word on the kde-core-devel list.
Mai 08 22:23:21 Kevin_Kofler	I'll have to read that thread, that sounds good indeed.
Mai 08 22:23:33 Kevin_Kofler	I've been a bit busy these days.
Mai 08 22:23:51 Kevin_Kofler	Any news about the KDEHOME (~/.kde) config file problem?
Mai 08 22:24:03 *	XulChris is here
Mai 08 22:24:07 rdieter	svahl: now that kdm is fixed (crosses fingers), gdm can go.
Mai 08 22:24:10 XulChris	i thought no meeting today?
Mai 08 22:24:22 XulChris	rdieter: you ircing from the plane? :)
Mai 08 22:24:29 Kevin_Kofler	rdieter: There's still #238849 to fix.
Mai 08 22:24:39 rdieter	got to the hotel earlier than anticipated. :)
Mai 08 22:24:49 Kevin_Kofler	svahl said he'll do more testing after the meeting.
Mai 08 22:25:06 svahl	rdieter, ok. I've replaced gdm on latest rawhide livecd. There was no bug report (at least mine). So it should be ok
Mai 08 22:26:37 rdieter	I'll finish up kde-settings integration either tonight or tomorrow.
Mai 08 22:26:58 rdieter	that'll fix xdg-user-dir interaction.
Mai 08 22:27:39 rdieter	did I miss anything juicy before I got here? :)
Mai 08 22:28:30 svahl	wwoods was asking for the blockers for f7
Mai 08 22:28:43 Kevin_Kofler	#238849?
Mai 08 22:29:03 rdieter	annoying, but not a blocker, imo.
Mai 08 22:29:23 Kevin_Kofler	Well, in principle, from the description, it sounds like #228111, which was already FC7Blocker, is missing a part.
Mai 08 22:29:23 *	davej hat die Verbindung getrennt (Remote closed the connection)
Mai 08 22:29:39 rdieter	anyone able to reproduce 238849?
Mai 08 22:29:40 wwoods	Ideally I'd like to have an official QA Contact from the KDE SIG
Mai 08 22:29:56 wwoods	basically I just want someone to ask "hey, how's KDE going? is there stuff that should be on the blocker list?" etc.
Mai 08 22:30:14 Kevin_Kofler	svahl said he's going to do more testing (including some debugging stuff I've asked for) right after the meeting.
Mai 08 22:30:23 rdieter	wwoods: I can do that (unless someone else wants to volunteer)
Mai 08 22:30:50 Kevin_Kofler	Oh and what's the latest date for the deep freeze now? Because I'll try hard to fix #238849 in time for that if at all possible, because of the live CD. For the installed distro, this is easily fixed with an update, but updating a live CD is not fun.
Mai 08 22:31:05 wwoods	rdieter: I'd really appreciate it - it'd be especially useful if you could join fedora-qa-list / hit the QA meetings so we can make sure KDE gets the love and attention it deserves
Mai 08 22:31:45 wwoods	Kevin_Kofler: I'm not sure if it's official yet, but the current plan is to push the freeze back a week (to Thursday the 17th)
Mai 08 22:31:50 rdieter	wwoods: I think I can do that. (I've sat in a few meetings from time-to-time already).
Mai 08 22:32:29 wwoods	we don't have rawhide, we're having trouble getting builds done at all (ppc64 grrr), and we're not planning on doing another test release before Final
Mai 08 22:32:55 wwoods	So we'd be crazy not to give the world at *least* a week between rawhide coming back and the freeze
Mai 08 22:33:10 rdieter	yeah, kinda need rawhide. (hard to test fixes otherwise)
Mai 08 22:33:46 wwoods	you can still pull the packages straight out of koji
Mai 08 22:34:01 wwoods	which works for getting people to test targeted fixes for blocker bugs
Mai 08 22:34:22 wwoods	but it's nowhere near good enough
Mai 08 22:34:37 wwoods	for me to feel at all comfortable releasing in.. 16 days
Mai 08 22:34:45 *	rdieter nods
Mai 08 22:35:49 wwoods	so yeah. for now, if you need to test a newly-built package, pull it from koji. jkeating should have rawhide back Real Soon Now
Mai 08 22:36:25 *	Kelly-Nixa (n=DarkPhoe@bas1-windsor12-1128743759.dsl.bell.ca) hat #fedora-meeting betreten
Mai 08 22:36:27 rdieter	any other potential blockers?
Mai 08 22:36:40 Kelly-Nixa	Did I miss the KDE SIG meeting?
Mai 08 22:36:54 rdieter	Kelly-Nixa: no, in progress.
Mai 08 22:37:13 *	rdieter passes Kelly-Nixa complentary punch-n-pie.
Mai 08 22:37:20 wwoods	Kevin_Kofler: do you think 238849 can be fixed for final (assuming we push everything back a week and final is ~23 days from now)?
Mai 08 22:37:23 Kelly-Nixa	Great.  I'm trying to think of an interesting idea for the metabar, because I don't want to just copy the same design the other 10 distro-versions do.
Mai 08 22:38:11 Kevin_Kofler	Big maybe. I can't tell until I know exactly what's amiss.
Mai 08 22:38:34 Kevin_Kofler	It's probably something easy to fix, but we haven't tracked it down yet.
Mai 08 22:38:40 rdieter	hold on metabar, for now, we're discussing potential release blockers atm.
Mai 08 22:38:53 rdieter	KK: so you've been able to reproduce?
Mai 08 22:39:04 svahl	Kelly-Nixa, maybe this one would fit into the metabar? http://people.redhat.com/dfong/fc7graphics/05firstboot-left.png
Mai 08 22:39:13 *	kital hat die Verbindung getrennt (Remote closed the connection)
Mai 08 22:39:43 Kevin_Kofler	rdieter: svahl is on it on a second machine.
Mai 08 22:39:58 Kelly-Nixa	Well, the problem isn't graphics that'll fit in the metabar, the problem is what I'm going to do with the text and so on.  I'll explain when we get to that section in the meeting.
Mai 08 22:40:49 *	wolfy (n=lonewolf@fedora/wolfy) hat #fedora-meeting betreten
Mai 08 22:40:52 wwoods	Kevin_Kofler: I'm going to go ahead and put it on FC7Target, but I don't think we need to delay the release until you have a fix
Mai 08 22:42:26 rdieter	KN: in the meantime, writeup a proposal (and maybe a mock screenshot) and post to fedora-desktop (or fedora-devel).  can get more feedback that way.
Mai 08 22:43:09 Kelly-Nixa	Oh, I know.  I need to think of a design idea before I can write anything, though, and that's where I am right now.  Though I do have some ideas.
Mai 08 22:43:16 Kevin_Kofler	The latest is that I don't think this is due to the ConsoleKit stuff (which appears to be working properly), but a separate bug.
Mai 08 22:44:01 rdieter	ok, since we have wwoods ear: what's up with iwlwifi?  Is it ever going to work? :)
Mai 08 22:44:20 tibbs	Tried this morning's kernel yet?
Mai 08 22:44:33 tibbs	So far reports are better than previous versions.
Mai 08 22:44:43 rdieter	tibbs: no, is there hope?
Mai 08 22:44:47 rdieter	yay
Mai 08 22:45:06 rdieter	in the absense of rawhide, where does one get it?
Mai 08 22:46:22 rdieter	well, any other blocker to discuss, or can we move on (to metabar?)?
Mai 08 22:46:40 Kevin_Kofler	http://people.redhat.com/davej/
Mai 08 22:48:16 svahl	no blocker but another question for livecd (Rex, did you get my mail): What about lisa? I've enabled it for testing purposes since test3. Should we enable it on livecd?
Mai 08 22:48:25 rdieter	woohoo, thanks.
Mai 08 22:48:46 rdieter	imo, don't enable it (use stock defaults)
Mai 08 22:49:13 Kelly-Nixa	I found via experimentation that lisa doesn't always work as expected, though I'm not sure why.  Sometimes the kio_slave just doesn't seem to react.
Mai 08 22:49:15 rdieter	let folks turn it on if they want it.
Mai 08 22:49:15 svahl	ok. but it would be easy to only enable it for livecd
Mai 08 22:50:20 rdieter	again, imo, it either should be enabled by default, everywhere, or not.  changing behavior for livecd is inconsistent.
Mai 08 22:50:36 svahl	rdieter, this one is related to lisa: #238790      is samba-client be required for kdenetwork in next rawhide push?
Mai 08 22:50:41 wwoods	rdieter: heh sorry, got distracted
Mai 08 22:50:50 svahl	ok. i will disable it then
Mai 08 22:51:06 rdieter	svahl: yeah, that's fixed in the next pklg iteration (already done)
Mai 08 22:51:10 wwoods	it's called iwl3945 now, I think, and.. it.. kinda works?
Mai 08 22:51:23 wwoods	it's shaky but it's gradually getting better and better
Mai 08 22:51:38 wwoods	we're still not positive it'll hit Good Enough by the time we release F7
Mai 08 22:51:55 wwoods	I'm 80% sure it'll be good enough to ship (and fix in later kernel updates)
Mai 08 22:52:09 rdieter	wwoods: thanks.
Mai 08 22:52:26 rdieter	ok, moving on... Kelly-Nixa, metabar?
Mai 08 22:52:32 svahl	rdieter, what's the status of the *-extras-subpackages? They could save some space on livecd.
Mai 08 22:52:43 svahl	oh. sorry :)
Mai 08 22:53:15 rdieter	svahl: working on it. :)
Mai 08 22:53:29 svahl	will the get into rawhide before f7?
Mai 08 22:53:34 svahl	the=they
Mai 08 22:53:51 rdieter	svahl: yes, count on it.
Mai 08 22:54:19 svahl	ok. can you write me a mail so I don't miss it? I really need some testing then
Mai 08 22:54:21 Kevin_Kofler	Oh, and what do we do with redhat-artwork-kde? Is the main redhat-artwork package going to reenable the KDE stuff and obsolete it or is it going to stay for F7?
Mai 08 22:54:32 Kevin_Kofler	I don't care either way, it's not a big burden to maintain. ;-)
Mai 08 22:54:37 Kelly-Nixa	Okay.  I want to avoid taking http://www.kde-look.org/content/show.php/Metabar+Lineart+Theme?content=26418 and putting the fedora wallpaper in the background like it seems everyone else does.  I have a few ideas on how to do that, but I'm trying to narrow them down better.
Mai 08 22:54:37 Kelly-Nixa	I assume we don't want any Javascript in the metabar?
Mai 08 22:54:38 rdieter	KK: good question.
Mai 08 22:55:21 Kevin_Kofler	Or, third option, it could be built as a regular subpackage of redhat-artwork.
Mai 08 22:56:05 rdieter	KK: me?  I like 3.
Mai 08 22:56:32 svahl	A regular subpackage would be the best way, I think
Mai 08 22:56:37 rdieter	with the merge, there's little/no point to the separate packaging/maintaining.
Mai 08 22:56:52 Kevin_Kofler	Then let's convince the redhat-artwork maintainers (there's lots of people on its ACL) to do that.
Mai 08 22:57:29 Kevin_Kofler	And let's also add redhat-artwork-kde as a dependency of kdebase now that that's possible.
Mai 08 22:57:30 rdieter	KK: ok, can you do that?  (I'll back you up, chime in if needed)
Mai 08 22:57:41 Kevin_Kofler	(At least the KDM theme is in there.)
Mai 08 22:57:50 rdieter	kdebase will be fixed asap (tonight likely)
Mai 08 22:58:04 rdieter	actually, it'll be a dep of kde-settings
Mai 08 22:58:38 rdieter	ok, metabar... is there a prob with js?
Mai 08 22:58:48 svahl	what ksplash would we use in f7? echo or bluecurve?
Mai 08 22:58:53 *	EvilBob hat die Verbindung getrennt ("Leaving")
Mai 08 22:59:05 rdieter	echo
Mai 08 22:59:15 Kelly-Nixa	Yeah, reports are it slows down the loading of the bar quite a bit and eats a lot of processor power.
Mai 08 22:59:48 rdieter	ok, no js then.  don't think it would buy us much anyway.
Mai 08 23:00:03 Kelly-Nixa	Neither do I, to be frank.
Mai 08 23:03:06 tibbs	For some reason the KDM theme has a large empty black space where I suppose the face browser is supposed to be.
Mai 08 23:03:21 Kevin_Kofler	https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=239495
Mai 08 23:04:33 rdieter	i'm gonna drop out a sec, see if I can get a non-tunneled session going.
Mai 08 23:04:42 svahl	tibbs, yes. face browsing isn't enabled in kdm yet
Mai 08 23:04:45 *	rdieter hat die Verbindung getrennt (Remote closed the connection)
Mai 08 23:04:50 Kevin_Kofler	That one's due to the background image being used for both GDM and KDM.
Mai 08 23:05:14 Kevin_Kofler	KDM does support user images, I'm not sure how well it'll fit into the existing background though.
Mai 08 23:05:36 tibbs	svahl: I guess my point is that face browsing is kind of useless and so the black space is unnecessary.
Mai 08 23:06:06 Kelly-Nixa	I'll experiment with it if you want.  I already have all the F7 graphics on my test system.
Mai 08 23:06:11 svahl	Kevin_Kofler, the syntax is enabled in kdm, but I don't know why it's not shown (I don't have any knowledge about this)
Mai 08 23:06:26 *	Benachrichtigung: rdieter ist online (heinlein.freenode.net).
Mai 08 23:06:26 *	rdieter (n=rdieter@208.10.47.224) hat #fedora-meeting betreten
Mai 08 23:07:10 tibbs	I looked at the theme stuff but the horror of XML overwhelmed me and I think it's part of the background image anyway.
Mai 08 23:07:45 rdieter	ok, better.
Mai 08 23:07:46 Kevin_Kofler	svahl: I might be able to look into that, but I make no promises because I'm pretty much swamped already and I also think user images aren't that useful. ;-)
Mai 08 23:08:00 Kelly-Nixa	I love working with XML.
Mai 08 23:08:16 tibbs	I did notice a couple of issues that cropped up when bringing up F7t4/kde on a laptop; I haven't filed bugs yet.
Mai 08 23:08:23 svahl	but maybe more useful than a black space instead :)
Mai 08 23:08:31 tibbs	I got both klaptop and kpowersave in the toolbar.
Mai 08 23:08:40 tibbs	knetworkmanager doesn't autostart.
Mai 08 23:08:47 Kelly-Nixa	I noticed that in F6, actually.
Mai 08 23:09:03 tibbs	kpowersave has no option to not suspend when on AC and the lid is closed.
Mai 08 23:09:13 rdieter	tibbs; klaptop is going away, and knetworkmanager has already been added back to the pkglist.
Mai 08 23:09:31 Kelly-Nixa	BTW, is there a reason KMix doesn't autostart either?
Mai 08 23:09:37 tibbs	I think the knetworkmanager thing is easy; it just needs a file in /usr/share/autostart
Mai 08 23:09:47 rdieter	tibbs: we could evaluate guidance power manager when/if it can get fixed/reviewed.
Mai 08 23:09:47 svahl	tibbs, #237654  for klaptop/kpowersave, knetworkmanager was "forgotten" in test4 but is back now
Mai 08 23:10:08 svahl	tibbs, knetworkanager is autostarted on the livecd
Mai 08 23:10:13 rdieter	kmix should/will autostart, I'll make sure that's in kde-settings.
Mai 08 23:10:21 tibbs	rdieter: I have heard many complaints about guidance.
Mai 08 23:10:34 tibbs	I think kpowersave is nice; it's just missing that one feature.
Mai 08 23:10:55 rdieter	tibbs: well, I've heard many praises, so there, nya.  (of course, I haven't actually gotten it to work yet). :)
Mai 08 23:11:09 tibbs	I'd report it upstream but all there seems to be is a sourceforge forum.
Mai 08 23:11:40 rdieter	so likely we'll lean toward kpowersave (or the gnome applet, heaven forbit)
Mai 08 23:12:53 Kelly-Nixa	I just mentioned it because it doesn't autostart in F6 right now, and in my case I have KHotkeys connected to KMix.
Mai 08 23:14:31 tibbs	All in all I'm pleased with the experience of bringing up test4/kde on this laptop.
Mai 08 23:14:53 tibbs	My only real problems have been kernel regressions making the machine mostly useless.
Mai 08 23:15:02 *	rdieter nods
Mai 08 23:16:42 rdieter	anything else, otherwise we can call it.
Mai 08 23:17:08 svahl	not from me
Mai 08 23:17:24 *	mdomsch hat die Verbindung getrennt (Remote closed the connection)
Mai 08 23:17:51 rdieter	can somebody grab (and post to wiki) the irc log?  (I missed some of it)
Mai 08 23:18:11 rdieter	(or if you're lazy, mail the log to me, and I can post it)
Mai 08 23:18:13 *	svahl could to that
Mai 08 23:18:18 svahl	do
Mai 08 23:18:24 rdieter	ok, thanks all!