[Di Nov 4 2008] [17:05:25] KDE SIG Meeting start, who's present today? [Di Nov 4 2008] [17:05:35] Thema rdieter setzt das Kanalthema auf "KDE SIG Meeting -- http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/KDE/Meetings/2008-11-04 -- Init". [Di Nov 4 2008] [17:05:36] present [Di Nov 4 2008] [17:06:21] Present. [Di Nov 4 2008] [17:07:57] than, SMParrish, ltinkl, kde*foo: ping [Di Nov 4 2008] [17:08:23] present, but still busy with bugfixes [Di Nov 4 2008] [17:08:51] ok, we'll get started slowly [Di Nov 4 2008] [17:09:07] first agenda item: Systray backport http://websvn.kde.org/?view=rev&revision=876362 [Di Nov 4 2008] [17:09:14] Thema rdieter setzt das Kanalthema auf "KDE SIG Meeting -- Systray backport http://websvn.kde.org/?view=rev&revision=876362". [Di Nov 4 2008] [17:09:24] jreznik has been championing for this, unfortunately he isn't present now. :-( [Di Nov 4 2008] [17:09:54] To sum up: what this is is a backport of the KDE 4.2 systray to 4.1. It entirely replaces the systray plasmoid. [Di Nov 4 2008] [17:10:19] has someone tested it? [Di Nov 4 2008] [17:10:50] IMHO this is far too big to solve essentially nothing (just graphical ugliness in the backgrounds of the KDE 4 systray applets), but jreznik says that bug is highly visible and so worth fixing. [Di Nov 4 2008] [17:11:02] prerequisites: 1. someone to vouche to own/work-on it. 2. test profusely locally or in a private branch, *then* we could consider it [Di Nov 4 2008] [17:11:03] Still, I think this is not a good approach to go at fixing it. [Di Nov 4 2008] [17:11:39] On the other hand, the systray applet now also includes the Plasma notification stuff, so I think we'd also get prettier notification events with that backport. [Di Nov 4 2008] [17:12:08] is jreznik the one to be working on it then? [Di Nov 4 2008] [17:12:15] Whether that makes it worthwhile, I'm not sure. I'm not in principle opposed to backports. [Di Nov 4 2008] [17:12:27] jreznik is the one who wants it, so he should be the one doing the work. ;-) [Di Nov 4 2008] [17:12:39] I wish he was present to discuss it... [Di Nov 4 2008] [17:12:39] 4.2 is just around the corner, I'm not sure if all the work would be all that worthwhile. [Di Nov 4 2008] [17:13:17] any disagreement with my aforementioned prerequisites? without that, we can't even consider it, imo. [Di Nov 4 2008] [17:14:06] I agree with these, we just have to tell jreznik. :-) [Di Nov 4 2008] [17:15:02] I'd feel a *lot* better saying we/fedora are interested in this, and our way of showing it would be to devote our developer resources to working-with/helping upstream for 4.2.x [Di Nov 4 2008] [17:15:35] but, if someone (like jreznik) wants to do it now for 4.1.x backport, I'm not going to tell him what he can/can't do with his time. [Di Nov 4 2008] [17:16:04] brb... coffee [Di Nov 4 2008] [17:16:17] rdieter: i'm fine with it, if the backport patch works fine [Di Nov 4 2008] [17:16:19] I'd much rather someone just fixed the background issue in the 4.1 systray and we keep the new stuff for 4.2. [Di Nov 4 2008] [17:16:38] I think it would just be 1 line to add, the problem is I don't know what line nor where. [Di Nov 4 2008] [17:16:57] And I think nobody knows, or it would already be fixed. [Di Nov 4 2008] [17:17:35] I hope the 4.2 rewrite actually fixed that issue. [Di Nov 4 2008] [17:17:45] And that it didn't introduce a new one. [Di Nov 4 2008] [17:17:46] is it possible that the mentioned new notification events would cause any problems? Or would be different in their behaviour/usuability? [Di Nov 4 2008] [17:18:20] svahl: that's a concern too, backports always have a danger of unforeseen interaction. [Di Nov 4 2008] [17:18:22] The background drawing problems for KDE 4 applets were not there in 4.0, but 4.0 had bad backgrounds and size issues for GTK+ applets instead. [Di Nov 4 2008] [17:18:46] ok, I think we've beaten that to death for now, we'll discuss more with jreznik when he's avail. move on? [Di Nov 4 2008] [17:19:19] rdieter: +1 [Di Nov 4 2008] [17:19:30] Thema rdieter setzt das Kanalthema auf "KDE SIG Meeting -- Desktop User Guide". [Di Nov 4 2008] [17:19:36] topic: Desktop User Guide [Di Nov 4 2008] [17:19:43] svahl: Right, the plasma notification stuff is a bit risky, it's a bit annoying that it got merged with the systray, so it isn't easily possible to backport things one at a time. [Di Nov 4 2008] [17:19:44] any news here? [Di Nov 4 2008] [17:20:06] rdieter: None that I know of, but I must admit I haven't been following it closely. [Di Nov 4 2008] [17:20:22] who added it to the agenda? :) [Di Nov 4 2008] [17:21:33] jreznik, according to the history. [Di Nov 4 2008] [17:21:56] well, any volunteer then to look over the DUG, and come back with a brief status report (after meeting, whatever)? [Di Nov 4 2008] [17:22:14] Hasn't jreznik also volunteered to delegate the work there? Or am I wrong? [Di Nov 4 2008] [17:22:39] ok, we'll leave the task for him for now... let's move on for now. [Di Nov 4 2008] [17:22:52] Thema rdieter setzt das Kanalthema auf "KDE SIG Meeting -- additional packages for live images (~20 megs free)". [Di Nov 4 2008] [17:22:56] topic: additional packages for live images (~20 megs free) [Di Nov 4 2008] [17:23:07] wee! space for more goodies. [Di Nov 4 2008] [17:23:42] I'd love to put Marble on it, but 1. it isn't split from kdeedu yet (IMHO should be, also for the benefit of e.g. Digikam) and 2. I don't know how big it is. [Di Nov 4 2008] [17:23:53] @input-methods was removed from fedora-live-base.ks, so there will be no scim-* and m17n-* for now [Di Nov 4 2008] [17:24:18] Kevin_Kofler: I've been threatening to split it for awhile, I'll just do it, and we can see. [Di Nov 4 2008] [17:24:50] BTW, when you tested Digikam's Marble integration, are you sure you had kdeedu installed and not just kdeedu-libs? [Di Nov 4 2008] [17:24:52] I've done a spin with kdeedu and removed some packages for it, but it's still too big (712/717): https://fedoraproject.org/w/index.php?title=SebastianVahl/CurrentPackageList&oldid=57924 [Di Nov 4 2008] [17:24:52] esp for the spreading use of marble/libmarble in other apps (like digikam for now) [Di Nov 4 2008] [17:25:04] Because that might explain why it had been crashing for you. [Di Nov 4 2008] [17:25:09] Kevin_Kofler: I'll test digikam/marble integration again, and find out [Di Nov 4 2008] [17:25:10] The Marble KPart is in kdeedu. [Di Nov 4 2008] [17:25:50] any other suggestions? (It's also not a sin to not use the entire 700MB) [Di Nov 4 2008] [17:26:19] kdeedu-math was also proposed (+ ~4 megs) [Di Nov 4 2008] [17:27:01] svahl: Is that 712/717 or 612/617? [Di Nov 4 2008] [17:27:20] Because the page says 612/617 which looks really low to me. [Di Nov 4 2008] [17:27:34] Kevin_Kofler: it's a typo. both spins are over 700 megs (I've only replaced the last two diggits) [Di Nov 4 2008] [17:28:07] OK, that's indeed too big. [Di Nov 4 2008] [17:28:43] kdeedu-math would fit, but I'm not sure it makes much sense to specifically put these on a general-purpose spin. [Di Nov 4 2008] [17:29:30] oh, the kalgebra plasma applet is a must have. :) [Di Nov 4 2008] [17:30:06] alright, brainstorm a bit, and see if we can come up with anything else useful to add. let's move on... [Di Nov 4 2008] [17:30:33] topic: bug #468889 - libldap-2.4.so.2: undefined symbol: ldap_int_tls_destroy [Di Nov 4 2008] [17:30:35] Bug https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=468889 medium, medium, ---, jsafrane@redhat.com, ASSIGNED, libldap-2.4.so.2: undefined symbol: ldap_int_tls_destroy [Di Nov 4 2008] [17:30:43] Thema rdieter setzt das Kanalthema auf "KDE SIG Meeting -- #468889- libldap-2.4.so.2: undefined symbol: ldap_int_tls_destroy". [Di Nov 4 2008] [17:31:04] sounds like maintainer can reproduce now, but seems we're not much closer to finding a solution here. [Di Nov 4 2008] [17:32:14] For the live CD size, maybe we should just keep the space reserved for localized spins? [Di Nov 4 2008] [17:32:46] +1 [Di Nov 4 2008] [17:33:51] I like that too, good idea [Di Nov 4 2008] [17:33:54] About the ldap issue: Looks like libldap isn't finding its own symbols for some reason I don't understand. [Di Nov 4 2008] [17:34:46] join the club. :) well, I have a hunch... I'll try a local rebuild of openldap, and see if that helps any. [Di Nov 4 2008] [17:35:19] it could be a issue in linker [Di Nov 4 2008] [17:35:56] link kcm_kdm against ldap is a workaround [Di Nov 4 2008] [17:36:20] i'm not happy to do it [Di Nov 4 2008] [17:36:55] can we ask the upstream why they are using it ? [Di Nov 4 2008] [17:37:30] the problem is that striggi_*rf* stuff needs kldap [Di Nov 4 2008] [17:37:47] and kcmshell4 kdm seems to load the plugin [Di Nov 4 2008] [17:38:02] maybe a side-effect of uselessly linking openldap when not used or needed? [Di Nov 4 2008] [17:38:24] rdieter: i don't think so [Di Nov 4 2008] [17:38:28] ok [Di Nov 4 2008] [17:38:48] Well, it could be that not doing it "fixes" it. [Di Nov 4 2008] [17:38:57] But ultimately the issue is still there. [Di Nov 4 2008] [17:39:03] well, direct further ideas/feedback to the aforementioned bug, and we'll keep banging away. [Di Nov 4 2008] [17:39:04] It just should not happen. [Di Nov 4 2008] [17:39:22] do we want the workaround? [Di Nov 4 2008] [17:39:36] Which workaround? [Di Nov 4 2008] [17:39:52] links kcm_kdm against ldap [Di Nov 4 2008] [17:40:09] We could try it. [Di Nov 4 2008] [17:40:18] I have no idea if that will fix it though. [Di Nov 4 2008] [17:40:19] it works, [Di Nov 4 2008] [17:40:24] than: if the extra link helps, then we could consider it I guess... you wanna try? (if you have some spare time, that is) [Di Nov 4 2008] [17:40:32] i already tested it [Di Nov 4 2008] [17:40:35] oh [Di Nov 4 2008] [17:40:43] wierd [Di Nov 4 2008] [17:40:45] Let's do it then as a workaround and get it tagged f10-final ASAP. [Di Nov 4 2008] [17:40:59] ok [Di Nov 4 2008] [17:41:04] Then we have plenty of time to work on a proper fix. [Di Nov 4 2008] [17:41:26] I don't think we should ship F10 with an avoidable bug just because we don't have the perfect solution. [Di Nov 4 2008] [17:41:36] Thema rdieter setzt das Kanalthema auf "KDE SIG Meeting -- http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/KDE/Meetings/2008-11-04 -- Open Discussion". [Di Nov 4 2008] [17:41:57] that's it for the agenda, let's discuss 4.1.3 plans. [Di Nov 4 2008] [17:42:40] than: you proppose we ship 4.1.3 an a F10-update, right? [Di Nov 4 2008] [17:43:05] rdieter: yes, it's too late and risky to have it in F10-release [Di Nov 4 2008] [17:43:36] I would tend to agree ( can't believe I'm saying this, must be getting old ). :) [Di Nov 4 2008] [17:43:37] so we will ship it as a F10-update [Di Nov 4 2008] [17:44:30] ok, ltinkle is working on F-9 branch, you're doing F-10, either wait to commit to F-10 cvs branch or work in a private/local branch? or ? [Di Nov 4 2008] [17:44:36] lukas is working on F9 [Di Nov 4 2008] [17:44:43] ltinkl, sorry. :) [Di Nov 4 2008] [17:45:05] we should probably create subbranch [Di Nov 4 2008] [17:45:14] and commit 4.1.3 there [Di Nov 4 2008] [17:45:42] i'm ok with that [Di Nov 4 2008] [17:46:06] when the F10 is released, we can merge the changes [Di Nov 4 2008] [17:46:14] I'd rather commit 4.1.3 to the main branch and subbranch 4.1.2 stuff if needed. [Di Nov 4 2008] [17:46:20] That way we don't have to merge. [Di Nov 4 2008] [17:46:31] Kevin_Kofler: +1 [Di Nov 4 2008] [17:46:43] But I'm not 100% sure we can build from a subbranch, I've seen the kernel folks do it in the past, but that was a long time ago. [Di Nov 4 2008] [17:46:43] ok, even better. [Di Nov 4 2008] [17:47:45] Also Fedora's CVS probably won't make it easy to branch an old revision. [Di Nov 4 2008] [17:48:26] Normally one can try and just delete the branch and start all over if it fails. But I think the pre-tag checks will block that (they definitely block deletion of non-branch tags, so I guess they'll also block deleting branches). [Di Nov 4 2008] [17:50:00] any cvsadmin's present that can comment? [Di Nov 4 2008] [17:50:20] I don't understand why we can't just do all operations CVS allows, but unfortunately that's not something for KDE SIG to decide. [Di Nov 4 2008] [17:50:50] (I think the pre-tag checks are overly paranoid and serve no useful purpose.) [Di Nov 4 2008] [17:50:50] if there's a problem i will commit in a private/local branch, i don't want to waste time here [Di Nov 4 2008] [17:51:23] Kevin_Kofler: I likely agree with you, but instead of fixing CVS, I'd rather move to something else. [Di Nov 4 2008] [17:52:04] Hmmm, actually a fairly safe way to create a subbranch retroactively would be to use CVS's feature to create a CVS branch from a tag. [Di Nov 4 2008] [17:52:28] So we could create a branch starting at the tag for the last 4.1.2 build and do 4.1.2 fixes from there. [Di Nov 4 2008] [17:52:47] And so safely move on to 4.1.3 stuff without worrying about branching now. [Di Nov 4 2008] [17:52:55] ok, we can discuss the implementation details after meeting, any other topics to discuss? [Di Nov 4 2008] [17:53:35] Adding some quicklaunch icons to the panel by default? [Di Nov 4 2008] [17:53:45] * Kevin_Kofler always has Konqueror (web) and Konsole there. :-) [Di Nov 4 2008] [17:54:03] a small note for the live images again as a FYI: These packages were added after the Preview release was composed: digikam, kdeedu-kstars, konq-plugins, pavucontrol, twinkle. [Di Nov 4 2008] [17:54:21] we should remove battery applet from default setting [Di Nov 4 2008] [17:54:25] svahl: thanks [Di Nov 4 2008] [17:54:43] The battery applet is there by default in F10? It shouldn't... [Di Nov 4 2008] [17:54:44] than: +1, we have guidance [Di Nov 4 2008] [17:54:52] It'll be something for F11 with PowerDevil. [Di Nov 4 2008] [17:55:09] yes [Di Nov 4 2008] [17:55:10] But it's too late to add it for F10 (especially since a battery applet backport is needed for it to use PowerDevil). [Di Nov 4 2008] [17:55:25] So the battery applet should not be there by default. [Di Nov 4 2008] [17:55:52] can someome take care of it? [Di Nov 4 2008] [17:56:09] svahl: No objections to those extra apps. [Di Nov 4 2008] [17:57:20] svahl: it's great you can add lancelot if there's anough space on live CD [Di Nov 4 2008] [17:57:37] than: I can try, how best to implement, patching kdebase-workspace or using kde-settings somehow? [Di Nov 4 2008] [17:57:56] That's something we need to figure out. [Di Nov 4 2008] [17:58:01] rdieter: i prefer kde-settings [Di Nov 4 2008] [17:58:10] I think we have to define a complete plasma-appletsrc if we use kde-settings. [Di Nov 4 2008] [17:58:10] than: I want to avoid packages with the same functionality. And we'll also have kickoff and simplemenu as menus [Di Nov 4 2008] [17:58:38] Kevin_Kofler: that's whan I'm afraid of... I'll try tho [Di Nov 4 2008] [17:58:46] but if there are no other objections I could surely add it [Di Nov 4 2008] [17:58:59] svahl: thanks [Di Nov 4 2008] [17:59:03] svahl: And those are actually easily switchable, Lancelot is not (it has to be added to the panel by hand). [Di Nov 4 2008] [17:59:41] thanks all, we're about out of time for today. [Di Nov 4 2008] [17:59:47] KDE SIG meeting end [Di Nov 4 2008] [18:00:13] Thema rdieter setzt das Kanalthema auf "Channel is used by various Fedora groups and committees for their regular meetings | Note that meetings often get logged | For questions about using Fedora please ask in #fedora | See http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/FedoraMeetingChannel for meeting schedule". [Di Nov 4 2008] [18:00:35] but as a positive point: lancelot is only visible in the plasmoids viewer, not in the menu. So If someone wants it he/she knows where too look. So I'll add it