* Du sprichst jetzt in #fedora-robotics * timn hat das Thema geändert zu: Fedora Robotics SIG - http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/Robotics * tcollett has a meeting at work, I will try make it back before but might just have to read the logs * jpgr87 (i=8076284e@gateway/web/freenode/x-ktdiaxtleemsywaw) hat #fedora-robotics betreten hello Hi jpgr87 i'm the guy that's been talking to you about co-maintaining the player package Ah, rm? yeah...apparently that handle is taken on freenode Ok, didn't know whether I'm supposed to call you by your real name or not on IRC... Nice to see you here! Let's wait some more minutes to see who else can join. tcollett is in a meeting and it is unknown whether he can attend or not oh ok. we still have a little while tcollet is one of the player devs right? yes jpgr87: is your spec based on mine (which currently is in Fedora)? yes i started with yours ok, should have kept the changelog then. Are you sponsored by now? i realized that about the changelog the other day :-) i'm not sponsored yet. I am going to submit gearbox for review with a NEEDSPONSOR tag Ok. but i'm waiting on upstream to clear up their licenses, they dom't specify which version of GPL they use and there's some weird cmake stuff, but i've only got to sort out one more file Can you give a URL for gearbox? my spec or the project project gearbox.sf.net player depends on it for the hokuyo_aist and flexiport drivers Ah, I see. Google only ever send me to the gaming related thing. i had that problem too, i ususally just append something like 'robot' to the search I didn't get a reply by anyone else, tried to reach a few, but no reply. So I'd say we just wait a few more minutes and otherwise start. alright that works even then it doesn't appear in the top 20 or so... that's true...i guess robots have actual gearboxes too * tcollett is back for 20 mins OK, I'd say let's start then. ok First: hello everybody :-) Maybe we should quickyl introduce ourselves, as we are all new to each other. * SickBoy (n=SickBoy@adsl-ull-80-31.50-151.net24.it) hat #fedora-robotics betreten I'm a computer science student at the RWTH Aachen University, Germany. I have worked on the local RoboCup team's robost for the past six years and during that wrote our new robot software framework (Fawkes). I'm currently preparing my final oral exams to finish studies. Hi tim HIi SickBoy We had just started with introducing to each other :-) right, I have been a Player developer for close to 6 years now, unfortunately a shifted jobs a couple of months back to a non robotics related firm so have less time for player now, but am still keen on seeing some good compatible versions of open source robotics packages available. i work in a research lab at penn state and am an engineering student part time, and i'm involved in the university's robotics club which uses Player to power our unmanned ground vehicles Ok, we had started the Fawkes Robotics SIG in 2008 with two intentions: a) make Fedora fit to drive a robot ok. I'm a phd student at the university of roma tre in rome (italy). I've worked on the "building from scratch" of a mobile robot (non-holonomic unicycle) b) provide a simulation environment and as much robot software as possible on Fedora Nice, we seem to have all experienced roboticists here! We have brought several robotics related packages to Fedora until now, but not even close to what we originally intended. The ultimate goal: provide a LiveCD you can hand out to students that provides them with a ready-to-use simulation environment and a rich set of robotics software. nice So, the original plan was: - provide Player/Stage/Gazebo environment and simulators - come up with kind of a "game" to easily get people involved in the simulation - Fawkes can fill the gap and provide this environment for development the behaviors in the game (features a scripting environment for robot control and can interface to Player) But: we didn't even finish first bullet point, yet. Basically man power was sparse from the beginning, then people went off for other stuff (like writing a thesis...) So, this is what the plans where. What are your ideas? i think the first thing is to get the most recent versions of p/s/g (at least p/s) into the repositories for me it is critical to make sure as many of the fixes required for packaging go back into the projects so the work doesnt need to be repeated for other distros tcollett: I fully agree. We use Fedora in our team, but others who we cooperate with use e.g. Ubuntu. It's already a pain if some required packages are not available on other distros. So to make it easier to get people started, we should push the patches upstream and make remarks, if it improves packaging. I can provide fixes needed in p/s/g for packaging in general. From a p/s/g point of view I think the target should be player 3, stage 3.2 and gazebo is about 0.9 I think as has been mentioned player 3 has several drivers that depend on gearbox, and this dependency is going to grow stronger in theory in my wrangling with creating a player 3.0 package, the only code changes that had to be done were in the cmake files Yes, Rich (jpgr87) has made an effort to package Player 3 and is now working on packaging gearbox. So it seems we agree on the next step which is to update player, introduce Stage 3.2 and recent Gazebo. right. I've got a gearbox package 95% ready to go at this point jpgr87, I saw the bug report on those, was there a patch with it? I will try catch up on some of the Player patches this weekend i didn't submit a patch when i filed the bug, i got sick of waiting and started making one jpgr87: if you don't mind, I'll merge your changes into the Fedora package and issue an update for F-11 and F-12 (nothing depends on this yet and as you have surveyed there is not much that should break anyway). Once you are sponsored you can join as a co-maintainer. that's perfectly fine, that's why I gave you the spec and srpm files Ok, once gearbox is in there you should be sponsored by then and can then re-build Player with gearbox support. i think it's going to take a week or so more to get gearbox ready to be vetted, no point in waiting if player 3 is ready to go Are you also going to introduce the Stage package? yes after i submit gearbox i will finish my stage spec Ok. The next thing I post for review will be Fawkes. I have prepared it for system-wide installation and I should get the work done by end of the month. how concerned are you with supporting ppc architectures? jpgr87: I personally do not care. If it works, fine, if not, also fine... ok. gearbox doesn't build on any ppc architectures at the moment If someone wants it he can fix it or ask for help. So for now we should just exclude that architecture. With these three packages we already have a lot for the mentioned LiveCD. Then we can do what I'd call semi-upstream work, come up with nice demos and "games" to get people interested and involved. what do you mean by "games" So as you see I really want to get that LiveCD running. Then in more iterations we can add more and more robotics software. But we need something to attract more people. I mean more kind of an interactive demo. Get the user involved, make him operate the virtual robot, play with it, get curious. Have a showcase to attract people. something simple like launching stage and running playerjoy while other robots execute the wander behavior or something? Yes, that could be a first start. you could probably write a logo style app for player/stage or something along those lines to get people into the coding side a bit more. I have developed a Lua-based scripting environment for robots. So what I'd also like to see is something like taking the user from an easy "move robot to the kitchen" to a more advanced "fetch and carry" agent. The increased complexity can be seen as the levels of this "game". anyone here had any contact with the BRICS project? nope i've never heard of it From what I read on the website this is heading into a similar direction. http://www.iitk.ac.in/robotics/brics/ http://www.best-of-robotics.org/ Ok, that are different things :-) ahh , my link goes to a under construction site sorry it looks like they're focusing on microcontroller programming? basically an EU funded project to bring together best practices in open source robotics it has an industrial leaning, but mobile robots etc are under its scope tcollett: ok, but this seems out of range for us atm? I had some contact with one of the project leads earlier in the year and standard packages is something they are interested in, so could be an area we could get resources from particularly if we want orocos packages but probably something to look at once P/S/G and gearbox are in Hmm, sounds interesting. Next year I'll be looking for funding for a robotics job at the university anyway :-) maybe we should just make a note of it on the wiki page So what do you think about the general direction for the LiveCD? i think it's a good target sounds like a good plan to me Ok. I hope we can get some more people involved. I'll write a mail to the main devel list, maybe there are people interested but are not aware of the SIG, yet. i've also been adding to http://playerstage.sourceforge.net//wiki/LinuxRoboticsStudio So the next milestones are: - Player 3 (basically done, just needs pushing) - gearbox + Player rebuild (Rich, awaiting license clearance and review) - Stage 3.2 (Rich) - Fawkes 0.4 (due by end of the month, will file a review request then) Once we are there, we can start thinking about a LiveCD and demos. LiveCDs are pretty simple to make, demos will be the tricky part jpgr87: I agree. if there are player/stage/gazebo bugs that are holding packaging up (i.e. build issues) send me an email directly as well and I will make them a priority jpgr87: how much time can you devote to the packaging stuff, i.e. when do you think can we have Stage 3.2 (I'll do the review assumed you are sponsored then) I haven't tried an x86_64 build, but i'm sure i'm going to run into the same hardcoded /lib/ issues i can shoot for the end of next week * tcollett has to go now, good to meet you all, I will be following with great interest and will help where I can tcollett: thanks for attending. Good bye and we'll keep you posted on the mailing list. jpgr87: wow, that's fast. CC me on reviews you file, I can do at least preliminary reviews which could make it easier to get a sponsor to review... jpgr87: I'll push Player this week, so that it should be through by then. ok. i'd like to go over the cmake patch I made one last time before you push it Ok, just let me know and sent the most recent one. I can do the other spec work until then. So this means that we can aim for an initial LiveCD in November/December. Awesome! alright that works. as of now the koji build completes, i want to make sure the pkg-config generated paths and cmake module paths are ok so i will try to email you an updated patch by Saturday or Sunday Sounds good to me! Once we got some more things done on the list we can schedule a new meeting. alright. I'd also like to talk about seperating drivers out into different plugin packages We have some minor decisions to make for the LiveCD, like what other stuff to put on there. E.g. Gnome or XFCE (latter might provide more storage for robotic software on the CD) jpgr87: Ok, want to do that right now or once some more stuff is in there? it might be something we have to talk to upstream about. Right now libplayerplugins.so is really monolithic and pulls in a LOT of dependancies Yes, that was my impression as well. if you're trying to target an embedded or minimal system, you don't need to bring in an sql server or all the firewire libs Agreed. You should discuss this with tcollett. yeah...i feel like it's going to require a bit of doing though Yes... for now the monolith is fine Right, one at a time... exactly. we can bring that up after we get all this initial packaging done I think then we are set for the coming weeks. Enough work to do. agreed. right now my schedule is: review cmake patch for player (this weekend), submit gearbox (pending licensing), and once player 3 is pushed i'll submit stage 3.2(.1 hopefully) Awesome. My schedule is: push Player 3 update (as soon as I get your new patch), (pre-)review your packages, push Fawkes. great. I'd also ask that you look over the BuildRequires section and/or install and make sure the rpm runs before you push 3.0 I will Please put me on the CC when you file review requests, so that I can have a look. alright. your username is just timn right? Yes, but I think you need the email adress, that you can see on the mails from the mailing list. right, the bugzilla is different alright not a problem Good, we'll discuss when to have the next meeting on the mailing list when we see fit. alright great Thanks for the good meeting and your efforts. We can make this roll (erm, spin...). not a problem, happy to contribute! * timn needs to hurry now to get some bread before the shops close I'll post the meeting minutes on the wiki. Bye. sounds good. bye!