[Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:02:21] KDE SIG Meeting start... who's present today? [Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:02:53] * ltinkl is here [Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:02:55] * jreznik is here [Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:04:07] Kevin_Kofler, than, SMParrish, kde*foo: ping [Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:05:43] well, we can start slowly, esp since we don't have an agenda (hoiidays and all), so that'll be our first item: agenda topics [Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:07:31] Present. [Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:07:36] Nick sspreitzer is now known as sspreitzer[AWAY]. [Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:08:32] 4.1.4, RC1? [Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:08:53] Join MathStuf has joined this channel (n=MathStuf@c-71-58-177-177.hsd1.pa.comcast.net). [Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:08:55] Part mcepl has left this channel. [Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:09:14] okay that's a good one, topic 1: 4.1.4 vs 4.2.0-rc1 [Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:09:40] Easy one: F9 and F10 should get 4.1.4. [Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:09:46] Rawhide 4.2.0 RC1. [Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:10:38] The real question is: who is working on what? Or should we just do the usual "whoever gets around to it imports stuff"? [Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:10:59] Join lvillani has joined this channel (n=lvillani@kde/developer/lvillani). [Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:11:15] looks like lot of work - two releases in one time [Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:11:26] Quit hanthana has left this server (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). [Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:12:20] Quit sdziallas has left this server (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)). [Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:12:23] shrug, if worse comes to worse... we could simply skip 4.1.4 altogether [Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:12:47] some distros are doing that [Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:13:40] I'd venture doing 4.1.4 wouldn't be too hard... shouldn't be too many changes there [Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:13:49] Yeah, should be pretty simple. [Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:14:21] I'll do the 4.1.4 [Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:14:36] for F9 and F10, rawhide should get 4.2 anyway [Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:15:13] ok, looks like we have a plan. the rest of us can hammer on 4.2 [Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:15:14] I'll try to sneak in the system-libical stuff while we are at it, I wanted to do it for f10-final, but then there was a bug, we know the fix now (I'll have to look up the bug report again to find it). Now we have to update kdepimlibs anyway so why not include it? :-) [Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:16:12] Kevin_Kofler: ok, it'll be there for 4.2 anyway, but we'll have to keep out a careful eye for any other problems induced there [Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:16:19] Join sdziallas has joined this channel (n=sebastia@p57A2FC6B.dip.t-dialin.net). [Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:16:30] in the meantime, I plan to follow 4.2 development branch in svn [Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:16:41] which makes backporting and fixing stuff easier [Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:17:36] Quit fab has left this server ("Leaving"). [Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:18:01] Join alexxed has joined this channel (n=alex@dyn-85.186.119.28.tm.upcnet.ro). [Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:19:11] oh yeah, 4.2 was branched too... wee. alrighty, anything else to discuss? [Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:19:21] Topic rdieter sets the channel topic to "KDE SIG Meeting -- open discussion". [Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:19:53] anyone notice any juicy bugs lately? :) [Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:20:21] The deadkeys not working with Qt/KDE apps in GNOME sounds pretty serious to me. [Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:20:35] anyone else seen krunner having gaps in it? [Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:20:41] i can't reliably reproduce it [Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:20:45] Filed at least 3 times now (one original and 2 duplicates). [Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:20:52] MathStuf: yes, but I was waiting for rc1 before complaining. :) [Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:20:59] Sounds like bad interaction between evdev, GNOME and Qt. [Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:21:06] k [Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:21:06] Join rduaa has joined this channel (n=SMParris@32.131.58.138). [Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:21:23] Join loupgaro1blond has joined this channel (n=loupgaro@82-171-65-13.ip.telfort.nl). [Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:21:47] Kevin_Kofler: nod [Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:21:55] Quit sonar_logger1 has left this server (Remote closed the connection). [Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:23:38] The Qt/KDE apps in gnome thing... how about we suggest filing some upstream bugs (@kde, @ghome?)... and see what feedback happens [Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:23:47] Nick rduaa is now known as SMParrish_mobile. [Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:23:53] Good idea. [Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:23:55] Quit alexxed has left this server (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). [Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:24:14] Join alexxed has joined this channel (n=alex@dyn-85.186.119.28.tm.upcnet.ro). [Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:24:38] I'd venture (hopefully) the issue(s) here aren't fedora-specific [Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:25:08] Apparently Ubuntu 8.10 isn't hit, but I guess they're simply not using evdev yet. [Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:25:19] Quit SMParrish_mobile has left this server (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). [Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:25:41] Join sonar_logger1 has joined this channel (n=Who@unaffiliated/sonarlogger1/x-872231). [Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:26:09] Join sonar_logger2 has joined this channel (n=Who@unaffiliated/sonarlogger1/x-872231). [Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:26:22] Quit sonar_logger2 has left this server (Remote closed the connection). [Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:27:17] The information I could gather is that GNOME appears to use a different method of gathering Compose and deadkey data for evdev than KDE and so they don't work together. [Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:28:14] The right place to report this KDE-side is probably Qt Software (former Trolltech), because Qt-only apps are also hit. [Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:28:28] Even Qt 3 ones. [Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:28:34] But Qt 4 too. [Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:28:34] Join JSchmitt has joined this channel (n=s4504kr@p4FDD1805.dip0.t-ipconnect.de). [Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:28:51] anyone here reproduce the problem (I know, that means using gnome)? [Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:29:15] else, we should suggest the original reporters, or someone who *is* experiencing it do the upstream reporting [Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:29:27] Quit No5251 has left this server ("Kein Anschluss unter dieser Nummer!"). [Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:30:32] I'm trying to fire up GNOME on my laptop to check this. [Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:31:40] cool... hey something tickled a memory... Kevin_Kofler, what's the scoop on phonon-backend-gstreamer + kde-4.2? any better for our (F11) needs yet? [Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:31:47] Join llaumgui has joined this channel (n=llaumgui@cro34-2-82-226-153-125.fbx.proxad.net). [Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:32:10] Quit loupgaroublond has left this server (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). [Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:32:10] Nick loupgaro1blond is now known as loupgaroublond. [Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:32:33] I can't reproduce the issue under GNOME. [Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:32:42] hm I am running gnome... if I can be on any help :) [Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:32:47] Maybe it only happens if the KDE apps haven't been set up under KDE first. [Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:33:00] I'd doubt that Kevin [Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:33:17] Kevin_Kofler: or if kde isn't configured for evdev (ie, a migrated/upgraded system)? [Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:33:19] but who knows, I'll try to reproduce it later [Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:33:19] pingou_laptop: Have you seen anything like this: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=468590 ? [Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:33:21] Bug 468590: medium, medium, ---, than@redhat.com, ASSIGNED, Deadkeys not working in Qt/KDE applications in GNOME [Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:34:12] rdieter: The scoop is that Amarok developers still consider phonon-gstreamer to be horrible (too many known bugs). [Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:34:38] And I'm not aware of the output device mess (i.e. PA problems) being fixed yet either. [Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:34:47] deadkey = shortcut key ? as multimedia keys ? [Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:34:55] ok... [Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:35:03] Deadkey = accent key. [Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:35:10] I have not read the report yet [Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:35:10] Quit greenlion has left this server (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). [Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:35:14] I believe the circumflex accent is a deadkey on a French keyboard. [Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:35:26] The other accented letters are hardcoded. [Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:35:28] Quit ldimaggi_ has left this server ("Leaving"). [Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:35:47] The German layout uses deadkeys for all accents. [Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:35:47] Join ldimaggi_ has joined this channel (n=ldimaggi@c-76-19-171-76.hsd1.ma.comcast.net). [Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:36:00] hm on kate I have trouble with " and ' I can not do é or è [Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:36:03] Quit ldimaggi_ has left this server (Client Quit). [Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:36:06] deadkeys are used for letters like ěščřžýáíé [Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:36:06] Join ldimaggi_ has joined this channel (n=ldimaggi@c-76-19-171-76.hsd1.ma.comcast.net). [Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:36:08] I'm checking again [Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:36:08] :) [Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:36:38] ok I confirm I can not do é, è ê on kate here [Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:36:43] or rather those keys that are not present directly in the keyboard layout [Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:37:15] this is what it gives : ´e`e^e [Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:37:24] Yeah, that's exactly that bug. [Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:37:32] I've seen this at times [Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:37:37] which reminds me this bug *might* be related to the layout switching problem I'd found earlier [Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:37:48] starting a new Kate fixed it usually [Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:37:55] Within a KDE session? [Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:37:56] Join hanthana has joined this channel (n=hanthana@124.43.47.211). [Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:37:57] That's interesting then. [Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:38:02] sometimes kong address bar would do it too [Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:38:05] *konq [Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:38:22] The Konq address bar is weird for deadkeys indeed. [Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:38:31] I think it's due to the history popup. [Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:38:34] * pingou_laptop is under gnome atm [Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:38:43] inline-search (using '/') fails with it too [Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:38:56] But I haven't seen this in Kate (and I couldn't reproduce it by booting my F10 laptop into GNOME either). [Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:39:07] * pingou_laptop goes back to work, ping if a gnome is needed ;) [Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:39:51] In the Konq address bar, you have to click away the popup for the deadkeys to work. [Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:39:55] I think it's a different bug. [Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:40:04] 4.1.85 doesn't have a dropdown anymore [Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:40:05] Probably worth filing as well. [Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:40:19] wait, there it is [Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:40:19] Huh? That's yet another bug then. [Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:40:24] just doesn't do bookmarks anymore [Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:40:34] Ah OK. [Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:41:12] What do we do with the weather plasmoid? I have a heavily-patched version which builds against 4.1 (after backporting the weather dataengine from trunk into kdebase-workspace), but is missing several features and the tabbar looks horrible, so I don't think packaging this for 4.1 is a good idea. [Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:41:42] Quit chacha_chaudhry has left this server ("Ex-Chat"). [Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:41:43] agreed, that's kde-4.2 [Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:41:45] So should I do a specfile without all the hacks and conditionals for 4.1 and submit that for review, targeting only Rawhide ATM (and F-10 and F-9 after the update to 4.2)? [Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:42:01] Or should I wait for spstarr to fix the networking bugs first? [Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:42:15] I think he expects us to wait until those are fixed. [Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:43:03] let's defer to what spstarr wants [Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:43:15] why not submit it to review, cc-me and I'll do it [Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:43:43] but... reviewing early couldn't hurt [Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:44:16] I'll get started on doing a specfile without the ugly conditionals. [Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:44:22] I have a specfile which should also work for 4.2 now, but it's full of conditionals for 4.1. [Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:44:49] on kde-look there are several new interesting 4.2 plasmoids, emdek is working hard :) so maybe I can package them for rawhide too... [Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:45:00] http://repo.calcforge.org/f10/weather-plasmoid/kde-plasma-weather.spec [Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:45:07] Kevin_Kofler: so clean it for 4.2 only [Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:45:30] Yeah, I think killing the scary conditionals will make the review easier. :-) [Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:46:23] Speaking of plasmoids, what about the NM plasmoid? [Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:46:42] IMHO we really want that one for F11, and they said it should be ready around the same time as KDE 4.2. [Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:46:53] So we should look into packaging it. [Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:47:18] Also for F9/F10 updates, with 4.2 if ready, otherwise in a later separate update. [Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:47:43] Kevin_Kofler: looks promising - I really don't like nm-applet [Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:48:22] Neither do I, in fact I'm running the KDE 3 knetworkmanager on my laptop now. [Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:48:44] cite: "Something I find a bit confusing is that it offers two context menues, one on right click and one on left click. I often find myself looking in both until I've found the option I've been looking for." [Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:48:49] On this computer I don't use NM at all, but custom rc.local script hacks. ;-) [Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:48:52] http://vizzzion.org/?blogentry=839 [Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:48:53] Quit tk009 has left this server ("sleep"). [Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:49:35] looks like won't be ready for prime-time until 4.3, but as a tech-preview/alpha soon [Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:49:36] he is absolutely right... I hope NM plasmoid will be more user friendly... [Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:49:43] jreznik: all GNOME applets are like that that I've seen [Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:49:58] the selinux policy thing is like that [Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:50:04] as is PK-gnome [Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:50:29] jreznik: at least it'll act/look like other things in KDE [Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:50:40] The keyring issue is what annoys me the most about nm-applet. [Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:50:55] IMHO we want the NM plasmoid as the default in F11. [Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:51:01] +1 [Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:51:02] If not, we should really reevaluate KNM. [Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:51:13] +1 [Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:51:20] +1 if it gets usable in time with 4.2 [Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:51:32] In time for F11 which is after 4.2. ;-) [Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:51:39] The KDE 3 KNM works great for me in F10, I don't see why it isn't the default. [Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:51:42] KNM lacks VPN config import :( [Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:51:57] And I think it really shouldn't have been EOLed before the NM plasmoid is ready. [Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:52:34] KNM indeed doesn't support VPN. [Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:52:42] This is one of the reasons we didn't make it the default. [Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:52:52] The NM plasmoid apparently does support it though, see the screenshot. :-) [Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:53:00] knm is unsuitable as default, and a pain to maintain... that said, if you want to pick it up and un-EOL, go for it. [Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:53:01] I've had it working before [Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:53:14] It's probably already more usable than KNM. [Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:53:25] but it hasnt worked lately (dies unexpectedly) [Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:53:39] I have to look on it tomorrow, looking forward for NM plasmoid! [Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:53:40] and 802.1x options aren't all there in nm-applet either [Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:54:01] before we run out of time... another (probably depressing) topic... upcoming conferences... anyone planning on attending anything soon? FUDCon, Fosdem? [Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:54:02] I've hacked it in the gconf files, but the applet overwrites at every opportunity [Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:54:08] even when denied write access :( [Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:54:18] rdieter: No. [Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:54:20] Not me. [Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:54:40] if fudcon were this week... [Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:55:02] me either, had hoped to splurge for fosdem this year, but alas, this and next month are bad for me (which means on FUDCon or CampKDE either... boo) [Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:55:16] Quit k0k has left this server (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). [Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:56:18] Quit rosset has left this server (""brb""). [Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:56:25] Join k0k has joined this channel (n=k0k@fedora/k0k). [Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:56:55] Quit GeroldKa has left this server (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)). [Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:57:11] Quit k0k has left this server (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). [Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:57:53] Quit lfoppiano has left this server (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). [Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:57:59] ok, looks like we're out of time for today, let's wrap up, thanks all. [Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:58:15] Part MathStuf has left this channel ("Failure: Success!"). [Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:58:19] KDE SIG meeting end [Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:58:21] Topic rdieter sets the channel topic to "Channel is used by various Fedora groups and committees for their regular meetings | Note that meetings often get logged | For questions about using Fedora please ask in #fedora | See http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_meeting_channel for meeting schedule".