Jun 05 22:09:06 svahl is today a kde sig meeting? Jun 05 22:09:41 rdieter oops, yes, sorry I'm late. Jun 05 22:09:57 * rdieter hat das Thema geändert zu: KDE SIG meeting - http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/FedoraMeetingChannel Jun 05 22:10:08 rdieter anyone else present? Jun 05 22:10:26 Kevin_Kofler I'm here again. Jun 05 22:10:52 Kevin_Kofler Let's start with a short question about FeatureKDE4: Who should be listed as the official "owner" of the feature? Jun 05 22:11:02 rdieter imo, KDE SIG (again). Jun 05 22:11:19 Kevin_Kofler That makes sense. Jun 05 22:11:49 svahl Would be the best, I think Jun 05 22:13:19 Kevin_Kofler So how do we want to proceed? Should I just base the page on my current draft plan? Shouldn't we discuss the plan first? Jun 05 22:14:44 rdieter use the current draft, and we'll go from there. Jun 05 22:14:48 svahl I'm not sure if kde will be released in october. So this is maybe a little bit dangerous (assuming, it will be released in eg. december) Jun 05 22:15:54 rdieter svahl: we'll be fine. the kde release team's dates a relatively firm. Jun 05 22:16:08 rdieter are ... firm. Jun 05 22:16:24 Kevin_Kofler And we don't have much choice IMHO. As I said earlier today: Jun 05 22:16:25 svahl well. I hope so. :) Jun 05 22:16:25 Kevin_Kofler Jun 05 18:13:30 In any case, at this point, I don't think defaulting to KDE 3 in F8 still is really an option, Qt 3 is going EOL in less than a month, and KDE is also in strict bugfix-only freeze. Shipping something in that state wouldn't quite fit Fedora's objectives. Jun 05 22:16:43 svahl Kevin_Kofler, I know. Jun 05 22:17:21 rdieter so, if it's a choice between a kde4 rc/prelease, and an unsupported kde3, I'd choose the former. Jun 05 22:17:26 Kevin_Kofler Trolltech has been focusing on Qt 4 for a long time already (Qt 3 was already in bugfix-only mode, now they're discontinuing it completely), and now KDE is too. Jun 05 22:18:14 svahl ok Jun 05 22:18:26 rdieter fwiw, all the kde folks @rh I spose with on the phone last Friday were in complete agreement, that kde4 is the (only) way to go for f8. Jun 05 22:18:35 rdieter s/spose/spoke/ Jun 05 22:19:05 Kevin_Kofler That's great, I was worried about them being more on the conservative side there. Jun 05 22:19:44 rdieter they are conservative when it comes to supporting rhel, of course... but for fedora we're pretty much on the same page. Jun 05 22:20:56 rdieter svahl, you and Kevin should be in on the conference call next time around... Jun 05 22:20:59 Kevin_Kofler The next action item for me will be creating Releases/FeatureKDE4, mentioning it in the feature list for F8, moving the contents now in KevinKofler/F8KDE4Plan there and making KevinKofler/F8KDE4Plan redirect to the official page. Jun 05 22:21:24 svahl rdieter, when will that be? Jun 05 22:21:42 rdieter svahl: dunno yet, Florian will probably be in touch to arrange it. Jun 05 22:21:54 rdieter Kevin_Kofler: looks good, make it so. :) Jun 05 22:22:21 * rdieter does his best Patrick Stewart finger point imitation... Jun 05 22:24:03 rdieter For posterify, those on the last conference call included: me, Than, Florian, Phil Knrisch, Pete Graner Jun 05 22:24:48 XulChris hi Jun 05 22:24:56 XulChris late but present Jun 05 22:25:30 rdieter hi Jun 05 22:25:49 XulChris whats the status on 3.5.7 for fc6? Jun 05 22:25:53 rdieter summary of Fri conference call with kde folks @ rh: Jun 05 22:26:08 rdieter Pete, Senior Manager of Base Operating Systems, pledged that rh takes supporting kde seriously. Jun 05 22:26:27 Kevin_Kofler XulChris: Than is working on it in the F7 branch, I suppose he'll take care of FC6 once F7 has it. Jun 05 22:27:00 XulChris hrm Jun 05 22:27:26 rdieter we agreed Than would continue to be technical lead... Jun 05 22:27:30 XulChris that probably means bug #213369 is going to show up again :( Jun 05 22:28:03 rdieter I'll continue doing mostly what I've been doing, community-wise. Jun 05 22:28:35 rdieter I insisted on more communication, transparency. Jun 05 22:28:49 XulChris i dont see the communication part, he never shows up to the meetings Jun 05 22:28:58 rdieter Pete vouged rh folks (Than in particular) would make an effort to participate more. Jun 05 22:29:30 rdieter then we talked a bit about kde4. Jun 05 22:29:32 XulChris unless he shows up at the morning ones Jun 05 22:29:58 rdieter XulChris: not today anyway. Jun 05 22:30:15 Kevin_Kofler He wasn't here at the 1600 UTC meeting (which is the time he picked) either today. Jun 05 22:31:04 rdieter I'll nag Than later to make sure to be here next time, before I start getting crabby. Jun 05 22:31:42 XulChris so what was said about kde4? Jun 05 22:32:15 rdieter re: kde4, that it's definitely the target for f8. Jun 05 22:32:20 Kevin_Kofler 2000 UTC is a bit late for folks in Europe (22:00 in the summer), it's acceptable for folks like me who do this in their spare time anyway, but I can understand RH maintainers not wanting to do work meetings at 10 PM. ;-) Jun 05 22:33:04 rdieter actually, I prefer the earlier time too. Jun 05 22:33:18 rdieter not sure how we ended up with that time slot. ??? :) Jun 05 22:33:21 XulChris so does that mean rawhide will have a kde4beta package? Jun 05 22:33:43 rdieter XulChris: soon, in the meantime, you can tryout the kde4 pkgs in the kde-redhat/unstable repo. Jun 05 22:33:45 svahl 1600 UTC would also be fine for me (at least atm) Jun 05 22:34:05 XulChris rdieter: ok i need to upgrade to f7 first Jun 05 22:34:23 Kevin_Kofler Actually, the plan is to have the regular kde* packages be KDE 4, and have only kdelibs3 and kdebase3 (a minimal one with the runtime stuff only, no apps) packages. Jun 05 22:34:24 rdieter XulChris: we've got kde4 pkgs for both fc6 and f7 Jun 05 22:34:44 XulChris rdieter: ya but upgrade to f7 is already on my todo list ;-) Jun 05 22:34:49 svahl parallel installation or kde4 only? Jun 05 22:34:50 Kevin_Kofler But yes, I made kdelibs4, kdepimlibs4 and kdebase4 packages for F6/F7. Jun 05 22:35:12 rdieter XulChris: meeting time, does the earlier slot work for you? Jun 05 22:35:26 XulChris rdieter: depends on what i did the night before ;-) Jun 05 22:35:31 rdieter If so, maybe we can just nix this one. Jun 05 22:35:35 Kevin_Kofler No other components though, it really doesn't make sense to parallel-install all of KDE IMHO, for apps, one version is enough, and that's KDE 3 up to F7 and KDE 4 in F8. Jun 05 22:36:11 rdieter right, would be a wee bit nutty to have 2 konquerors. Jun 05 22:36:27 Kevin_Kofler Konqueror is actually in my kdebase4. Jun 05 22:36:38 svahl sry, I meant the existing packages in kde-redhat-unstable Jun 05 22:36:49 Kevin_Kofler But it shouldn't land in the compat kdebase3 package in F8. Jun 05 22:37:06 rdieter svahl: those kde4 pkgs install into separate prefix: /opt/kde4 Jun 05 22:37:16 svahl ok. thx Jun 05 22:37:30 Kevin_Kofler And they use separate config dirs too so they don't clobber your KDE 3 settings. Jun 05 22:37:40 rdieter just a short-term hack, until we have something better. Jun 05 22:37:51 Kevin_Kofler Right. Jun 05 22:39:08 Kevin_Kofler The prefix breaks the FHS, the config dir makes settings not migrate transparently and both require lots of search&replace patching, so they're both evil short-term hacks to get rid of in the F8 packaging. Jun 05 22:39:33 Kevin_Kofler Config file backwards compatibility shouldn't be too much of an issue if only one version of apps is shipped, the libraries are supposed to be able to cope. Jun 05 22:39:34 rdieter ok, last chance, anyone against dropping this later/2nd KDE SIG meeting time? Jun 05 22:40:06 * tibbs hat die Verbindung getrennt ("Konversation terminated!") Jun 05 22:40:17 XulChris what time is the early one? Jun 05 22:40:31 XulChris this one starts at 1pm for me Jun 05 22:40:38 Kevin_Kofler 4 hours earlier. Jun 05 22:40:44 Kevin_Kofler 1600 UTC, this one is 2000 UTC. Jun 05 22:40:46 XulChris 9am? Jun 05 22:41:28 XulChris i will proabably miss about 1/2 the meetings at that time Jun 05 22:41:29 rdieter well 11am for me (Central) Jun 05 22:41:57 XulChris many times i go on late night programming binges Jun 05 22:42:16 XulChris not guaranteed to be awake at 9am, but by 1pm im usually about :) Jun 05 22:43:14 rdieter well, we can see how it goes. Seems most kde folks are in Europe, so we need to accomodate. Jun 05 22:43:23 XulChris i suppose if i have something really important i can set my alarm Jun 05 22:46:05 rdieter that's the spriit! Jun 05 22:47:04 rdieter Kevin: I'll start playing with moving kde4 pkgs prefix back to /usr, using %cmake build macros, etc... Jun 05 22:47:28 rdieter how should we approach making the compat-kde3 stuff? Jun 05 22:48:04 Kevin_Kofler I just hope I'll not oversleep at 18:00. ;-) I'm an even more extreme nighttime guy than XulChris and in fact I was the only European not to complain about the old 0300 UTC time. ;-) Jun 05 22:48:37 rdieter hee (that one was 9/10pm for me) Jun 05 22:49:47 Kevin_Kofler The compat stuff is a good question. I guess we should just start with having the -devel packages conflict before trying to investigate workarounds to that. Jun 05 22:49:55 rdieter And, if any of you can gather 2+ people to meet any given time, feel free to just do it (add to FedoraMeetingChannel wiki, etc...) Jun 05 22:50:04 Kevin_Kofler Hopefully there won't be tons of file conflicts left in the non-devel package too. Jun 05 22:50:25 rdieter -devel Conflicts: +1, I see no (easy) way around that. Jun 05 22:51:57 Kevin_Kofler Well, we could try the super-evil "separate prefix for -devel only with tons of symlinks" hack, that might even work. Jun 05 22:54:46 rdieter I don't think I like super-evil. Jun 05 22:55:32 rdieter at least not for iteration 1, start out simple. Jun 05 22:57:21 rdieter well, I gotta run, anything parting comments? Jun 05 22:58:29 rdieter ok, thanks all. Jun 05 22:58:36 svahl rdieter, at linuxtag I was asked If you will be at academy Jun 05 22:58:52 rdieter yes, http://akademy2007.kde.org/conference/talks/07.php Jun 05 22:59:08 rdieter alleycat: c5 maybe, c4 is out (need newer dbus). Jun 05 22:59:08 svahl and some kde guys also mentioned, that the like that we are more close to upstream now Jun 05 22:59:22 svahl the=they Jun 05 22:59:31 rdieter nice Jun 05 23:00:17 rdieter linuxtag sounded awesome, wish I could have been there. Jun 05 23:01:06 svahl well. it was ok. but there were not so much visitors as I exspected Jun 05 23:02:42 Kevin_Kofler My SRPMs should build on anything >= FC5 assuming you have the required dependencies, that includes EL5 and clones. (I didn't ask Rex to build 3.90.1 for FC5 anymore because Strigi is not in FE5 and IMHO it isn't worth going through the trouble with EOL in 1 month, but EL5 could be a worthwhile target). Jun 05 23:03:24 Kevin_Kofler Of course, the userbase of RHEL and clones usually isn't quite the userbase willing to try out experimental stuff. ;-) Jun 05 23:04:31 Kevin_Kofler Maybe the FC6 packages even install on EL5 already, though of course I can't guarantee that. Jun 05 23:04:35 rdieter can somebody grab the irc log, I'm late... :) Jun 05 23:04:54 * rdieter hat das Thema geändert zu: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/FedoraMeetingChannel -- Meetings often get logged -- see schedule in the wiki for next meeting Jun 05 23:05:12 svahl ok. will do that Jun 05 23:05:33 svahl see you next week