[Di Okt 28 2008] [17:04:11] Thema Kevin_Kofler setzt das Kanalthema auf "KDE SIG Meeting - https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/KDE/Meetings/2008-10-28 - Init". [Di Okt 28 2008] [17:04:20] KDE SIG Meeting now. Who's present? [Di Okt 28 2008] [17:04:26] present [Di Okt 28 2008] [17:04:29] here [Di Okt 28 2008] [17:05:39] here (added agenda item, tty1/kdm) [Di Okt 28 2008] [17:06:06] Thema Kevin_Kofler setzt das Kanalthema auf "KDE SIG Meeting - https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/KDE/Meetings/2008-10-28 - Live images oversized due to recent inclusion of m17n-* and scim-* and solar-backgrounds". [Di Okt 28 2008] [17:06:20] Well, let's start with the topic of the day: our live images are oversized now. :-( [Di Okt 28 2008] [17:06:28] present [Di Okt 28 2008] [17:06:34] 2 big offenders: scim-python-pinyin and solar-backgrounds. [Di Okt 28 2008] [17:07:06] scim-python-pinyin was added because all the m17n-* and scim-* stuff got added to comps by default. [Di Okt 28 2008] [17:07:21] any ideas when these were added, by whom, and why? [Di Okt 28 2008] [17:07:25] solar-backgrounds is now dragged in by libgnome. [Di Okt 28 2008] [17:08:03] It's bad to have solar-backgrounds in, we can't use 3/4 of the images in it because KDE does not support the different times of day. [Di Okt 28 2008] [17:08:05] neat [Di Okt 28 2008] [17:08:09] And it's 38 MB. [Di Okt 28 2008] [17:08:25] We have the backgrounds we actually support in solar-kde-theme which is only 7 MB. [Di Okt 28 2008] [17:08:28] imo scim is needed for asien languages [Di Okt 28 2008] [17:08:43] but doesn't make sense to have it as default [Di Okt 28 2008] [17:08:49] Maybe we should make sure that solar-backgrounds is dragged in by something higher in the GNOME stack instead, like gnome-desktop? [Di Okt 28 2008] [17:09:07] Kevin_Kofler: I was thinking something like that too [Di Okt 28 2008] [17:09:17] FYI: solar-backgrouns was also on snap3 (i686:680 / x86_64:686 megs): http://fedoraproject.org/w/index.php?title=SebastianVahl/CurrentPackageList&oldid=56578 [Di Okt 28 2008] [17:09:28] the space problem appears with all the scim-* packages [Di Okt 28 2008] [17:09:30] how big is solar-backgrounds? [Di Okt 28 2008] [17:09:37] than: 38mb [Di Okt 28 2008] [17:10:01] why is it so big? [Di Okt 28 2008] [17:10:29] svahl: How much over is the the spins (ie, how much fat needs to be trimmed)? [Di Okt 28 2008] [17:10:49] Size (i686/x86_64): 724 megs / 729 megs [Di Okt 28 2008] [17:10:53] than: Because there are 4 images for each size. [Di Okt 28 2008] [17:10:56] so we need ~29 megs to be freed [Di Okt 28 2008] [17:10:58] One for each time of day. [Di Okt 28 2008] [17:11:02] KDE doesn't support that. [Di Okt 28 2008] [17:11:35] We could share the images we can use and save 6 or 7 MB, but I'd rather kick solar-backgrounds out of the KDE image which would save 38 MB. [Di Okt 28 2008] [17:11:42] nuking scim/m17 should do the trick [Di Okt 28 2008] [17:11:53] Maybe even just scim-python-pinyin. [Di Okt 28 2008] [17:12:18] Kevin_Kofler: or prudent splitting of solar-backgrounds (have a -common pkg for sharing, and main pkg required only by gnome-session, or something like that) [Di Okt 28 2008] [17:12:51] Yes, a -common is ideal. [Di Okt 28 2008] [17:13:05] But in any case we need to make sure to get the full solar-backgrounds the heck out of the KDE spin. [Di Okt 28 2008] [17:13:21] It would save the space we need, we wouldn't even have to kick out the SCIM stuff. [Di Okt 28 2008] [17:13:39] FYI: A diff between Snap3 and my latest spin: http://nopaste.info/e264061f9c.html [Di Okt 28 2008] [17:13:46] Not that I'm convinced we need SCIM either, as the KDE spin doesn't really support i18n. [Di Okt 28 2008] [17:13:59] (due to lack of translations) [Di Okt 28 2008] [17:15:04] Alrighty, I'll lead the charge on attacking the solar-backgrounds issue (and possible splitting, sharing, whatever) [Di Okt 28 2008] [17:15:21] removing all scim-* packages woul be easily done in the kickstart [Di Okt 28 2008] [17:15:23] +d [Di Okt 28 2008] [17:15:54] Hmmm, can you try this for a quick way to save space without removing support for any language: [Di Okt 28 2008] [17:15:58] could do that too... at least until we have space to consider them [Di Okt 28 2008] [17:16:07] -scim-python-pinyin [Di Okt 28 2008] [17:16:10] +scim-pinyin [Di Okt 28 2008] [17:16:43] That replaces the huge scim-python-pinyin with the older scim-pinyin which is only 2.2 MB (well, compressed, but still a lot less than the 14 MB compressed of scim-python-pinyin). [Di Okt 28 2008] [17:16:46] Kevin_Kofler: -scim-python-pinyin should be enough (it could also be removed with yum without additional removals) [Di Okt 28 2008] [17:17:00] ah, ok, sry [Di Okt 28 2008] [17:17:35] sharing with solar-backgrounds, we'll get updates from there too, e.g. http://mihmo.livejournal.com/64097.html [Di Okt 28 2008] [17:18:48] rdieter: I'm willing to work on a solar-backgrounds-common with the shared artwork. [Di Okt 28 2008] [17:19:05] :) thx [Di Okt 28 2008] [17:19:09] But that is pretty much unrelated to getting the solar-backgrounds dep moved to something higher up in the GNOME stack. [Di Okt 28 2008] [17:19:37] nd [Di Okt 28 2008] [17:19:38] nod [Di Okt 28 2008] [17:19:43] We only want solar-kde-theme and its deps (which would include solar-backgrounds-common) on the KDE spin, not the GNOME theme we can't use. [Di Okt 28 2008] [17:20:58] That said, replacing scim-python-pinyin by scim-pinyin should be enough to save some space quickly. [Di Okt 28 2008] [17:21:59] And somebody should talk to the i18n folks, having a 37 MB input method for a single language installed by default for everyone really makes no sense. [Di Okt 28 2008] [17:22:35] We don't have space to throw away like that on the live images. [Di Okt 28 2008] [17:23:33] So the action items are: [Di Okt 28 2008] [17:23:48] 1. short term: -scim-python-pinyin +scim-pinyin -> svahl? [Di Okt 28 2008] [17:24:04] nod. I'll do a test spin after the meeting and commit the new kickstart then [Di Okt 28 2008] [17:24:12] 2. medium term: talk to the i18n folks about size constraints [Di Okt 28 2008] [17:24:34] 3. medium term: talk to the GNOME desktop team folks about moving the solar-backgrounds dep to something not on the KDE spin [Di Okt 28 2008] [17:25:16] We've been notoriously bad at talking to other teams about issues like this, who's going to do the talking? [Di Okt 28 2008] [17:25:52] * rdieter raises hand. :) [Di Okt 28 2008] [17:26:11] * rdieter will take one for the team. [Di Okt 28 2008] [17:26:42] I think solar-backgrounds is the most important issue, the scim stuff can be worked around by tweaking our kickstart. [Di Okt 28 2008] [17:29:47] About solar-backgrounds-common: one important thing to consider, though, is that KSplash only supports PNG images (it uses its own minimal subset of Qt with support for all the other images ripped out, for fast loading they say), so if they want to switch to JPG or something we can't use that in the KSplash theme. [Di Okt 28 2008] [17:31:01] sure [Di Okt 28 2008] [17:31:42] next topic? i have to leave office earlier ;-) [Di Okt 28 2008] [17:32:17] The input method stuff was actually not a comps change, but a fedora-live-base.ks change: http://git.fedorahosted.org/git/?p=spin-kickstarts.git;a=commitdiff;h=bd870f59d70eacb0362462976444381a7924f067 [Di Okt 28 2008] [17:32:37] I added topic: TTY mods to kdmrc (switch X to tty1 per faster startup) [Di Okt 28 2008] [17:33:28] Thema Kevin_Kofler setzt das Kanalthema auf "KDE SIG Meeting - https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/KDE/Meetings/2008-10-28 - TTY mods to kdmrc (switch X to tty1 per faster startup)". [Di Okt 28 2008] [17:33:33] I've tested kdmrc mods, ServerVTs=1, and dropping tty1 from ConsoleTTYs does the trick. [Di Okt 28 2008] [17:33:49] Then let's do that. [Di Okt 28 2008] [17:34:35] OK, I'll commit the mod to svn here in a bit, and we can spin a new tarball/rpm from that. [Di Okt 28 2008] [17:35:24] comitted [Di Okt 28 2008] [17:35:45] the flames on fedora-devel are interesting to watch. :) [Di Okt 28 2008] [17:36:23] anything else for today? [Di Okt 28 2008] [17:37:05] well, can someone else spin a newer kde-settings rpm? I (and Kevin) will work on the solar-backgrounds issue. [Di Okt 28 2008] [17:37:48] can someone reproduce this "kcmshell4: symbol lookup error: /usr/lib/libldap-2.4.so.2: undefined symbol: ldap_int_tls_destroy"? [Di Okt 28 2008] [17:37:55] or I could do kde-settings, and Kevin can get started on finding sharable content, then I'll take that to #fedora-desktop to discuss splitting solar-backgrounds [Di Okt 28 2008] [17:38:25] than: there's a bz on that, ?? it's the extra linking to libldap (even when it isn't used) that causes that. [Di Okt 28 2008] [17:38:48] or am I remembering something different? [Di Okt 28 2008] [17:38:50] I don't see why that would be causing undefined symbols, really. [Di Okt 28 2008] [17:38:51] bz number? [Di Okt 28 2008] [17:39:09] it's a bug and should be fixed [Di Okt 28 2008] [17:39:14] The BZ was about some crash, I'm not sure what happened to that. [Di Okt 28 2008] [17:39:33] than: when do you see that? how to reproduce? [Di Okt 28 2008] [17:39:42] But the undefined symbol bug is a new one. [Di Okt 28 2008] [17:40:08] try to start kcmshell4 kdm [Di Okt 28 2008] [17:40:16] and click cancel [Di Okt 28 2008] [17:40:35] ah, bingo. :) [Di Okt 28 2008] [17:40:41] it should display this [Di Okt 28 2008] [17:41:17] it's strange i cannot reproduce it on my test machine with F9-updates [Di Okt 28 2008] [17:41:31] openldap bug methinks, just built openldap-4.2.12 Oct 15 [Di Okt 28 2008] [17:42:11] API change without soname change? [Di Okt 28 2008] [17:42:25] this issue causes a problem in kdesu [Di Okt 28 2008] [17:42:44] odd though, ldd -r /usr/lib64/libldap.so.2 doesn't show anything undefined [Di Okt 28 2008] [17:42:45] It must be breaking something in kdepimlibs or even kdelibs. [Di Okt 28 2008] [17:43:01] libldap-2.4.so.2 sorry [Di Okt 28 2008] [17:44:00] can someone try to rebuild kdelibs/kdepimlibs [Di Okt 28 2008] [17:44:06] and test it? [Di Okt 28 2008] [17:44:12] I can. [Di Okt 28 2008] [17:44:18] rdieter: thanks [Di Okt 28 2008] [17:44:53] still smells like an openldap bug [Di Okt 28 2008] [17:45:26] or I could revert back to the last openldap-4.2.11 build and see if the problem goes away. :) [Di Okt 28 2008] [17:45:47] rdieter: please try it [Di Okt 28 2008] [17:46:42] kdepimlibs has been rebuilt today (after the Rawhide snapshot happened) to use the system libical, so there's no need to rebuild it yet again. [Di Okt 28 2008] [17:47:23] rdieter: the problem also shows up in F9 [Di Okt 28 2008] [17:47:56] what openldap version there? [Di Okt 28 2008] [17:48:15] 2.4.10-1.fc9 [Di Okt 28 2008] [17:48:37] ok, I'd venture downgrading won't help, need to find where that missing symbol is coming from [Di Okt 28 2008] [17:49:09] One small thing about solar ksplash: The first login into a new user account needs some time (~10 seconds here). The old ksplash shows some activity then, but the solar theme isn't moving. Especially on the live images on slower machines this could be confusing. [Di Okt 28 2008] [17:49:22] that symbol is in openldap alright, wtf? [Di Okt 28 2008] [17:49:33] yes [Di Okt 28 2008] [17:50:59] ping openldap maintainer(s) for comment? [Di Okt 28 2008] [17:53:00] rdieter: not yet [Di Okt 28 2008] [17:55:12] or file a bug, either way, getting their input here would probably be valuable, instead of blind rebuilding or downgrading (neither would seem to help, offhand) [Di Okt 28 2008] [17:56:37] i'm not sure it's a bug in openldap, but rather in kde [Di Okt 28 2008] [17:57:04] Either way, we need to figure out what's going on. [Di Okt 28 2008] [17:57:07] This is very strange. [Di Okt 28 2008] [17:57:28] How can a .so not find its own symbols? [Di Okt 28 2008] [17:59:03] right, if the missing symbol were in a kde binary/lib, that's one thing, but that's not the case here (apparently) [Di Okt 28 2008] [17:59:53] rdieter: it's fine with me if you want to fill this bug ;-) [Di Okt 28 2008] [18:00:05] s/fill/file [Di Okt 28 2008] [18:00:15] ok [Di Okt 28 2008] [18:00:57] though it may take awhile, bz is soooo speedy [Di Okt 28 2008] [18:03:50] https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=468889 [Di Okt 28 2008] [18:03:52] Bug 468889: medium, medium, ---, jsafrane@redhat.com, NEW, libldap-2.4.so.2: undefined symbol: ldap_int_tls-destroy [Di Okt 28 2008] [18:05:29] rdieter: Can you +1 this one? https://fedorahosted.org/rel-eng/ticket/873 [Di Okt 28 2008] [18:06:22] tested it much ? :) [Di Okt 28 2008] [18:06:47] * rdieter is dl'ing it now [Di Okt 28 2008] [18:07:16] I ask in the ticket for everyone's benefit. [Di Okt 28 2008] [18:08:42] BTW, time's up for our meeting.