Aug 05 18:04:56 * Topic for #fedora-meeting is: kde sig meeting -- http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/KDE/Meetings/2008-08-05 -- init Aug 05 18:04:56 * Topic for #fedora-meeting set by rdieter at Tue Aug 5 18:05:37 2008 Aug 05 18:05:15 * lvillani almost present Aug 05 18:05:34 * replica lurking Aug 05 18:05:37 let's get started... Aug 05 18:05:59 topic: RFE: add Home to top level Menu (like kde3): http://bugzilla.redhat.com/457756 Aug 05 18:06:10 * rdieter has changed the topic to: kde sig meeting -- http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/KDE/Meetings/2008-08-05 -- RFE: add Home to top level Menu (like kde3): http://bugzilla.redhat.com/457756 Aug 05 18:06:44 I'm leary to vary from upstream here too much. thoughts? Aug 05 18:07:11 I'd say add it to the menu, ppl would imho expect it to be there Aug 05 18:07:27 I think adding a .desktop file can't hurt and I wouldn't quite call it "vary from upstream". Aug 05 18:07:29 -dmwaters_- {global notice} Good day all, it looks like one of our sponsors had some routing problems. Thank you all for your patience, and thank you for using freenode! Aug 05 18:07:34 We'd just add an additional file. Aug 05 18:07:43 * lvillani agrees Aug 05 18:07:47 I would agree, its expected to be there Aug 05 18:08:05 yup, furthermore, as there is no classical Home icon on the desktop, the home files are not easily accessible Aug 05 18:08:07 ok, anyone willing to take the issue ot upstream, to lobby to change this? Aug 05 18:08:39 also, there's a genuine bug here, that "Home" is inaccessible from classic menu, which is what prompted this initially. Aug 05 18:10:02 So is the meeting about what new things can be added or changed? Aug 05 18:10:31 * jlaska_ is now known as jlaska Aug 05 18:10:32 sgodsell: current discussion topic is http://bugzilla.redhat.com/457756 Aug 05 18:10:50 ah, okay Aug 05 18:10:52 sgodsell: yes Aug 05 18:10:55 sgodsell: and agenda http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/KDE/Meetings/2008-08-05 Aug 05 18:11:32 see, making a local change without upstream followup doesn't make sense to me. Aug 05 18:11:47 upstream is free to reject it, but the effort should be make all the same. Aug 05 18:12:31 Can't we do the customizations first, then dump them all in a huge "Fedora KDE customizations" thread? That worked for a certain other distro... ;-) Aug 05 18:12:47 so its really about kde in general then Aug 05 18:12:49 fine with me. :) Aug 05 18:13:38 sounds like a good idea Aug 05 18:13:44 +1 Aug 05 18:13:53 sgodsell: fedora+kde issues yes. :) Aug 05 18:14:22 Kevin_Kofler: does that mean you're volunteering? :) Aug 05 18:14:32 lol Aug 05 18:15:07 I'm apparently not considered important enough by upstream to be allowed to post on kde-core-devel without going through moderation. :-( Aug 05 18:15:23 So I'm not sure I'm the ideal contact person there. Aug 05 18:15:45 I'm pretty sure the last time was just a fluke. Aug 05 18:16:03 Posts on kde-core-devel are moderated. Aug 05 18:16:14 Only people explicitly authorized can post directly. Aug 05 18:16:16 wow, all of them? didn't know that. Aug 05 18:16:23 well I will leave you kde guys alone then. Since I am a gnome guy :-) Aug 05 18:16:39 You're probably on the list of people who don't need moderation. Aug 05 18:16:46 heh. fools! Aug 05 18:17:18 alright, I think we're in agreement about making a change, we'll worry about the rest later. Aug 05 18:17:28 +1 Aug 05 18:17:43 next topic: system-config-printer not available from menus http://bugzilla.redhat.com/457921 Aug 05 18:17:45 wierd one Aug 05 18:18:05 * rdieter has changed the topic to: kde sig meeting -- http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/KDE/Meetings/2008-08-05 -- system-config-printer not available from menus http://bugzilla.redhat.com/457921 Aug 05 18:18:28 seems (some?) apps with Category=GTK don't show in kde menus. any ideas? Aug 05 18:18:40 I have the entry with kde 4.1 Aug 05 18:18:42 Maybe there's some more hardcoding there. Aug 05 18:18:50 lvillani: oh? raqts Aug 05 18:18:52 rats even Aug 05 18:18:59 it's called 'Printing' Aug 05 18:19:11 where should it appear btw_ Aug 05 18:19:14 lvillani: where? Admininstration->Printing ? Aug 05 18:19:27 yes Aug 05 18:19:29 that's where it appears for me, but only if I remove Category=GTK Aug 05 18:19:38 I did nothing Aug 05 18:19:48 I see it there as well, no modification needed Aug 05 18:19:51 know what? I did have the dreaded kmenu-gnome installed at one time, maybe it left some crud behind. Aug 05 18:19:59 likely Aug 05 18:20:00 I don't understand how Category=GTK is relevant at all, unless there's some hardcoding somewhere to treat it specially. Aug 05 18:20:06 But then why is it working for lvillani? Aug 05 18:20:10 there's none afaik Aug 05 18:20:18 I've got it here with no issues 4.1 on F9 Aug 05 18:20:19 Kevin_Kofler: for me as well Aug 05 18:20:38 ok, looks like it's a local issue somehow. I feel better now. Aug 05 18:20:55 rdieter: yeah seems a local issue Aug 05 18:21:06 rdieter: Look in your ~/.config/menus for suspicious files. Aug 05 18:21:10 alrighty lets move on. (will do). Aug 05 18:21:16 Everything which contains "GTK" and sits in there is suspicious. Aug 05 18:21:32 next topic: kde-4.1 update feedback http://admin.fedoraproject.org/updates/F9/FEDORA-2008-6743 Aug 05 18:21:53 * rdieter has changed the topic to: kde sig meeting -- http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/KDE/Meetings/2008-08-05 -- kde-4.1 update feedback http://admin.fedoraproject.org/updates/F9/FEDORA-2008-6743 Aug 05 18:22:11 Looks good so far, but we're waiting for the next testing push to get the stuff with the fixes pushed out for some testing. Aug 05 18:22:23 There are several reported issues which are fixed by the new builds. Aug 05 18:22:40 As I commented in #fedora-kde earlier, at first, I was midly annoyed at some of the non-constructive and/or non-actionable comments being left, but then it occured to me to be flatterred by all the feedback and attention. Aug 05 18:22:52 I installed Fedora 9 on three machines last week, had no problems at all updating packages Aug 05 18:23:04 lvillani: thx, excellent Aug 05 18:23:06 (new workstation, eeepc, Dell laptop) Aug 05 18:23:30 all using kde 4.1 and cool kwin effects :> Aug 05 18:23:49 well, question remains, how do we feel about it, and are we getting close to ready to push to stable? Aug 05 18:24:26 once the konq/kate process problems are fixed with kdelibs, i think it'd be ready Aug 05 18:24:29 no problems from on my side either Aug 05 18:24:36 from - Aug 05 18:24:44 I think we should let the fixed builds hit testing first. Aug 05 18:24:51 it is fine, for me Aug 05 18:24:53 And let them at least a few days in testing. Aug 05 18:24:57 Kevin_Kofler: +1 Aug 05 18:25:00 I've had 4.1 on my laptop (main machine) for almost a week. No problems but lots of oooooohs and ahhhhhhhs from onlookers -) Aug 05 18:25:21 Hopefully that'll also give me time to fix quarticurve-kwin-theme which is suffering from display issues. Aug 05 18:25:24 maybe wait for qt 4.4.1 to hit f9? Aug 05 18:25:24 * JSchmitt_ is now known as JSchmitt Aug 05 18:25:31 * replica wonders where SMParrish lives Aug 05 18:25:42 lvillani: Oh no, you just opened another can of worms! Aug 05 18:25:53 heh :) Aug 05 18:25:54 http://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=168007 Aug 05 18:25:55 Bug 168007: medium, medium, ---, kernel-maint@redhat.com, CLOSED CURRENTRELEASE, unknown symbol warnings from depmod for xfs.ko, during yum update Aug 05 18:25:55 lvillani: there's a regression in 4.4.1 Aug 05 18:26:06 (ignore buggbot, as usual) Aug 05 18:26:20 it should be fixed before we push it in F9 update Aug 05 18:26:26 +1 Aug 05 18:26:33 fine Aug 05 18:26:48 The Plasma developers are currently debating what the correct fix is. Aug 05 18:26:58 Give them a few more hours to sort things out. Aug 05 18:27:06 I heard about a complete rewrite of the plasma systray applet Aug 05 18:27:22 * SMParrish Lives in Raleigh NC home of RedHat 8-) Aug 05 18:27:32 4.0 -> 4.1 did see a *lot* of code changes wrt systray. :) Aug 05 18:28:01 But they're already at work redoing it all over again for 4.2, because 4.1 still has some problems. Aug 05 18:28:24 The main user-visible one is the fact that the solid background color doesn't fit in well with the gradient in the default Plasma theme. Aug 05 18:28:42 ok, looks like we don't see any current blockers, but we'll let the latest set of pkgs seep in updates-testing for a bit longer. Aug 05 18:28:57 Kevin_Kofler, well, if you use the 'Elegance' theme it isn't noticeable at all Aug 05 18:29:19 * rdieter has changed the topic to: kde sig meeting -- http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/KDE/Meetings/2008-08-05 -- open discussion Aug 05 18:29:32 that's it for the agenda, any other topics to discuss? Aug 05 18:29:34 systemsettings menu categorization Aug 05 18:29:48 (I added it to the agenda too, late, sorry.) Aug 05 18:29:51 ok, Aug 05 18:30:18 I think we all agree that systemsettings needs to be shown in the menu, especially for the classic menu which doesn't have the "Computer" tab. Aug 05 18:30:26 The problem is: where. Aug 05 18:30:36 Currently we're putting it under Settings where it was in 4.0. Aug 05 18:30:46 Kevin_Kofler: Settings Aug 05 18:30:48 ok, same issue as for "Home" Aug 05 18:30:56 But other candidates are System, our System Settings or the top level. Aug 05 18:31:13 The System Settings category is added by our menu patch. Aug 05 18:31:18 settings seems the most logical Aug 05 18:31:26 top level will match kcontrol location for kde3, but I'm ok with anywhere. Aug 05 18:31:31 Upstream has System and Settings categories, and things with both categories show up in both. Aug 05 18:31:35 replica: +1 Aug 05 18:31:48 We have System for System only, Settings for Settings only and System Settings for the .desktop files which set both. Aug 05 18:31:56 that's where i'd look for it if i were new to kickoff (which i am ;) Aug 05 18:32:05 I'd say toplevel, as in KDE 3, Help and Find are there as well Aug 05 18:32:13 On the other hand, having something called "System Settings" not under "System Settings" is weird. ;-) Aug 05 18:32:21 But then again it doesn't just set system settings. Aug 05 18:32:33 So I believe Settings is actually the correct category, unless we want to put it at the top level. Aug 05 18:32:51 * ltinkl votes for toplevel together with Home Aug 05 18:33:07 * SMParrish agrees with ltinkl Aug 05 18:33:37 it's settings tools, imo it should be in Settings Aug 05 18:33:51 both! :) Aug 05 18:33:55 :D Aug 05 18:34:13 see, all other OSes I know put those 2 entries in toplevel menu Aug 05 18:34:52 It's easy to put it at the top level in any case, just change Settings to Core in the show-systemsettings patch. Aug 05 18:35:13 I don't really care as long as it's in the menu. Aug 05 18:35:28 well, I agree with than_, btw Aug 05 18:36:17 this is the place (again), where I'd recommend raising the issue upstream... (regardless, bugs *do* need to be filed for this and Home cases,, for not showing in Classic menu) Aug 05 18:37:05 let's tally again, who's for toplevel? please vote. Aug 05 18:37:11 +1 Aug 05 18:37:31 +1 Aug 05 18:37:38 unofficial, of course, just getting an idea. Aug 05 18:37:53 I'm OK with any location other than "none". :-) Aug 05 18:38:09 does that count as toplevel++? :) Aug 05 18:38:16 and for "Settings"? please vote. Aug 05 18:38:27 +1 :) Aug 05 18:38:33 +1 Aug 05 18:38:40 it's the correct place for that Aug 05 18:38:41 +1 (if my vote counts ;) Aug 05 18:38:49 * rdieter joins Kevin_Kofler on the fence. Aug 05 18:39:19 ok, definitive result of undecided. Aug 05 18:39:34 Hmmm, maybe we should ask svahl for an opinion? Aug 05 18:39:36 well, I'll +1 settings just so that we can decide on doing *something* Aug 05 18:39:44 :) Aug 05 18:39:46 Settings is where it is now. :-) Aug 05 18:39:51 settings is probably where upstream will put it when they finally fix the issue Aug 05 18:40:00 So let it stay there unless we can decide on something else. Aug 05 18:40:12 we should add it in Settings first Aug 05 18:40:17 I don't want it to pingpong between Settings and the toplevel. Aug 05 18:40:28 we can always change it later Aug 05 18:40:31 I'm trading Settings for Home going into toplevel Aug 05 18:40:37 ^^ Aug 05 18:40:46 ok, any other topics for today? Aug 05 18:41:07 akademy? :) Aug 05 18:41:17 * ltinkl was about to suggest it Aug 05 18:41:22 so who does attend akademy? Aug 05 18:41:29 oh oh, me! Aug 05 18:41:43 me too Aug 05 18:41:52 * ltinkl points at than Aug 05 18:42:06 ltinkl, than: after meeting, let me know when you're getting there, and where you're staying. Aug 05 18:42:22 rdieter: sure Aug 05 18:43:09 and maybe we can put our heads together a bit (brainstorm) wrt to my talk, I still haven't finallized on anything yet Aug 05 18:43:15 http://techbase.kde.org/Events/Akademy/2008/Attendees Aug 05 18:43:20 ^^ list of attendees Aug 05 18:43:32 add yourself if you're going Aug 05 18:43:59 rdieter: when is your talk? Aug 05 18:44:59 Um.. checking... 16:25 SAT, http://akademy.kde.org/conference/presentation/41.php Aug 05 18:46:34 ideally, I could con... err... trick...err convince you guys to talk a bit with me. :) share a highlight or 2 of F9 development and working with kde4. Aug 05 18:47:10 rdieter: no problem, let's discuss it Friday evening on site^W in some local pub Aug 05 18:47:20 ltinkl: +99 Aug 05 18:47:56 ok, how about some words about FUDConBrno? Aug 05 18:48:08 now? Aug 05 18:48:26 Kevin_Kofler: sure, why not? :) just an fyi, what's the plan, who's already coming, etc... Aug 05 18:48:31 oops, ltinkl even. Aug 05 18:48:51 http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FUDCon/FUDConBrno2008 Aug 05 18:49:16 there's a FUDCon going to take place in September this year in Brno Aug 05 18:49:33 I'll probably come to FUDConBrno for the main day (the Saturday "BarCamp"). I can take the train from Vienna in the early morning and back out in the late evening, it's so close. :-) Aug 05 18:49:48 for those who don't know, Brno is in Czech Republic so here's your chance to attend if you come from Europe Aug 05 18:49:52 * rdieter curses, wishes he could be there. Aug 05 18:50:35 furthermore, Redhat offices are in Brno so you'll have chance to talk to Redhat developers directly Aug 05 18:51:26 I hope I won't get lost in the city with my nonexistent Czech language skills. :-( Aug 05 18:51:37 conference program, accomodation, travel info and other stuff on the wiki page above :) Aug 05 18:52:00 Kevin_Kofler: I can pick ppl up at the station/airport if needed Aug 05 18:52:58 ltinkl, Kevin_Kofler, than: ever done a BarCamp before? Aug 05 18:53:10 rdieter: nope Aug 05 18:53:18 * ltinkl already wondered wth is that :) Aug 05 18:53:27 will we camp the bar? sound good :DD Aug 05 18:53:57 in short, you pitch some talk/session topic to the croud, and all sessions get quick-n-dirty votes to which ones are most popular, and those are the ones assigned rooms Aug 05 18:54:49 controlled chaos, but it works, marvelously. Aug 05 18:55:24 rdieter: just put "beer" somewhere in the title of your talk Aug 05 18:55:43 so, ltinkl, than(?), and Kevin_Kofler, think of some good kde session/topics to pitch, and see how it goes. :) Aug 05 18:56:10 * rdieter adds "beer" to akademy title slide. check. Aug 05 18:56:19 I'm thinking of "make KDE the default Fedora KDE" topic Aug 05 18:56:25 s/KDE/DE Aug 05 18:56:39 provacative ;) Aug 05 18:56:49 ltinkl: that's the spirit! Aug 05 18:57:14 ok, well, looks like we're out of time for today, let's head back to #fedora-kde. thanks all. Aug 05 18:57:23 ltinkl: You'll need to duck when the tomatoes fly. ;-) Aug 05 18:57:36 or those beer glasses Aug 05 18:57:42 * rdieter has changed the topic to: Channel is used by various Fedora groups and committees for their regular meetings | Note that meetings often get logged | For questions about using Fedora please ask in #fedora | See http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/FedoraMeetingChannel for meeting schedule Aug 05 18:57:47 stale kolaches Aug 05 18:57:49 end meeting Aug 05 18:58:07 oh, can someone grab and post the log of the meeting? Aug 05 18:58:31 I can do it