[Di Apr 14 2009] [18:02:22] KDE SIG Meeting, init, who's present today? [Di Apr 14 2009] [18:02:31] Thema rdieter setzt das Kanalthema auf "KDE SIG Meeting -- http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/KDE/Meetings/2009-04-14 -- Init". [Di Apr 14 2009] [18:02:34] * jreznik is here [Di Apr 14 2009] [18:02:36] present [Di Apr 14 2009] [18:02:50] than sent regrets [Di Apr 14 2009] [18:03:23] * ltinkl is here [Di Apr 14 2009] [18:03:34] Present (made it just in time :-) ). [Di Apr 14 2009] [18:04:01] woo, look over, http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/KDE/Meetings/2009-04-14#Agenda , anything else to discuss today? [Di Apr 14 2009] [18:04:04] Thema rdieter setzt das Kanalthema auf "KDE SIG Meeting -- http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/KDE/Meetings/2009-04-14 -- Agenda". [Di Apr 14 2009] [18:04:36] I suppose an obligatory artwork status update wouldn't hurt. [Di Apr 14 2009] [18:04:37] KDE 4.2.2 / Qt 4.5 status [Di Apr 14 2009] [18:05:16] some recent bugs? [Di Apr 14 2009] [18:06:21] * rdieter can't think of any worth mention, but is already a bit loopy from cold medicine [Di Apr 14 2009] [18:06:22] The fd leak saga maybe? Not really recent, but recent updates. [Di Apr 14 2009] [18:06:39] ok [Di Apr 14 2009] [18:06:47] we can hit that at the end [Di Apr 14 2009] [18:07:02] (That would be: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=484370 ) [Di Apr 14 2009] [18:07:04] Bug 484370: medium, low, ---, than, ASSIGNED, kde is leaking open file descriptors, causing SELinux AVC warnings [Di Apr 14 2009] [18:07:52] topic 1: kdeartwork(-subpkgs) on the KDE live images (short) [Di Apr 14 2009] [18:08:06] svahl? [Di Apr 14 2009] [18:08:17] svahl, jreznik ? (we should probably assign owners/names for agenda items, eh? :) ) [Di Apr 14 2009] [18:08:23] :) [Di Apr 14 2009] [18:08:42] Thema rdieter setzt das Kanalthema auf "KDE SIG Meeting -- http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/KDE/Meetings/2009-04-14 -- kdeartwork(-subpkgs) on the KDE live images (short)". [Di Apr 14 2009] [18:09:00] svahl it's your showtime now :) [Di Apr 14 2009] [18:09:05] I've added kdeartwork and kdeartwork-sounds to the live images. On the snapshot there is also kdeartwork-kxs but the size increased a few megs the last days so I'll remove it soon [Di Apr 14 2009] [18:09:16] kdeartwork-screensavers was just too big [Di Apr 14 2009] [18:09:23] what's the current size? [Di Apr 14 2009] [18:09:40] 694/700 megs https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SebastianVahl/CurrentPackageList [Di Apr 14 2009] [18:09:45] why include -sounds? (maybe it's not that big, and doesn't matter much either way) [Di Apr 14 2009] [18:09:47] i686/x86_64 [Di Apr 14 2009] [18:09:55] Keep in mind that the size will vary with the Leonidas artwork. [Di Apr 14 2009] [18:09:59] (instead of Solar) [Di Apr 14 2009] [18:10:13] Kevin_Kofler: nod [Di Apr 14 2009] [18:10:19] I agree that having the full screensavers on the live image doesn't make much sense [Di Apr 14 2009] [18:10:20] So we may have to do some adjustments to the package list when it hits. [Di Apr 14 2009] [18:10:55] is that using the updated leonidas backgrounds? [Di Apr 14 2009] [18:11:07] don't think so. [Di Apr 14 2009] [18:11:18] and it's almost certainly going to be bigger than solar was [Di Apr 14 2009] [18:11:18] We need a theme in the KDE format for that. [Di Apr 14 2009] [18:11:20] I wonder if they're bigger [Di Apr 14 2009] [18:11:34] the image(s) are more complex [Di Apr 14 2009] [18:11:51] I think it's going to be bigger [Di Apr 14 2009] [18:12:24] http://mso-chronicles.blogspot.com/2009/04/new-leonidas-backgrounds.html [Di Apr 14 2009] [18:12:26] for the record [Di Apr 14 2009] [18:12:59] that segue's into the next artwork topic [Di Apr 14 2009] [18:13:03] currently it's 29 megs with landscape [Di Apr 14 2009] [18:13:22] Thema rdieter setzt das Kanalthema auf "KDE SIG Meeting -- http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/KDE/Meetings/2009-04-14 -- artwork - short status". [Di Apr 14 2009] [18:13:23] 11 megs lion theme only [Di Apr 14 2009] [18:14:05] discussed with Kevin_Kofler the other day, and it may be worth putting future effort into making sure jpg backgrounds work everywhere (including kdm, ksplash) [Di Apr 14 2009] [18:14:09] short state - artwork team finally agreed on theme, so I'm working on it right now [Di Apr 14 2009] [18:14:24] package is already in rawhide [Di Apr 14 2009] [18:14:27] I don't know if JPEG works right now in KDM, we'd have to verify. [Di Apr 14 2009] [18:14:45] We need the landscapes without the lion only for KDM, so if that works, we could use JPEG for those. [Di Apr 14 2009] [18:14:46] Kevin_Kofler: msourada is preparing background for KDM [Di Apr 14 2009] [18:15:05] Kevin_Kofler: default wp is without lion [Di Apr 14 2009] [18:15:05] I don't think kdm supports anything else than PNG [Di Apr 14 2009] [18:15:09] KSplash (or rather, KSplashX, the engine "everything" uses) only supports PNG. [Di Apr 14 2009] [18:15:12] lion is only in second screen [Di Apr 14 2009] [18:15:32] Because it doesn't use Qt's image loading functions, but a custom fork of some Qt code. [Di Apr 14 2009] [18:15:56] it's intended behaviour - people are complaining that lion is so bright so they can't see icons -> lion on dual head only [Di Apr 14 2009] [18:16:25] We'd need our own KSplash engine (fork of KSplashX to use the system Qt?). [Di Apr 14 2009] [18:16:58] it's not using qt to be fast [Di Apr 14 2009] [18:17:29] If the default wallpaper is already without the lion, do we really need something different for KDM? [Di Apr 14 2009] [18:17:31] we can have plymouth like splash in qt but it's a lot of work [Di Apr 14 2009] [18:17:53] Kevin_Kofler: I don't think so... currently there's same image as normal wp [Di Apr 14 2009] [18:17:59] I have to talk to msourada [Di Apr 14 2009] [18:18:21] they are trying to pay back delay? :D [Di Apr 14 2009] [18:18:33] IMHO having the same wallpaper everywhere is better, it brings us seamless transitions (modulo different scaling behavior for aspect ratios not covered by our images) and saves space. [Di Apr 14 2009] [18:18:36] so too kind to us :) [Di Apr 14 2009] [18:18:54] I think we should have one set of wallpapers shared by everything, just as in Solar. [Di Apr 14 2009] [18:19:00] Kevin_Kofler: I think so, just looking on it... I had to solve one scb bug... [Di Apr 14 2009] [18:19:17] one wp for everything... [Di Apr 14 2009] [18:19:25] jreznik: thanks, let us know how things progress... [Di Apr 14 2009] [18:19:33] but firtst I'd like to ping msourada what's his plan for it [Di Apr 14 2009] [18:19:34] As for KSplashX not using Qt for speed, I'm not convinced it really helps at all. [Di Apr 14 2009] [18:19:35] https://fedorahosted.org/fedora-kde-artwork/ [Di Apr 14 2009] [18:19:38] KDM already loads Qt! [Di Apr 14 2009] [18:19:53] it's in SVN [Di Apr 14 2009] [18:19:54] and we all know how slow and bloated qt is... :) [Di Apr 14 2009] [18:20:08] rdieter: really? I don't know [Di Apr 14 2009] [18:20:18] not! [Di Apr 14 2009] [18:20:23] Kevin_Kofler: kdm does but ksplashx doesn't [Di Apr 14 2009] [18:20:47] Qt on framebuffer on Freerunner is like road runner :D [Di Apr 14 2009] [18:20:53] on X11 sooooo slooooooow [Di Apr 14 2009] [18:20:56] anyway, can we move on? [Di Apr 14 2009] [18:21:04] okay so summary [Di Apr 14 2009] [18:21:18] 1. I'm working on it, for help - SVN repo [Di Apr 14 2009] [18:21:31] 2. I have first mockup from brejc8, thanks! [Di Apr 14 2009] [18:21:50] KDM appears to support JPEG, they use the standard Qt image loading stuff. [Di Apr 14 2009] [18:21:57] ltinkl: But KDM runs before KSplashX. [Di Apr 14 2009] [18:22:00] 3. I'll ping msourada about KDM background... [Di Apr 14 2009] [18:22:04] So Qt is already in memory by the time KSplashX runs! [Di Apr 14 2009] [18:22:13] So not using Qt saves basically zero loading time. [Di Apr 14 2009] [18:22:15] not necessaryily [Di Apr 14 2009] [18:22:24] with GDM/XDM [Di Apr 14 2009] [18:22:29] in runlevel 5 yes [Di Apr 14 2009] [18:22:41] but who's using GDM - it's his problem... [Di Apr 14 2009] [18:23:06] There's also stuff in our startup scripts using kde4-config. [Di Apr 14 2009] [18:23:09] and I don't like that KSplashX hack like - "this code is copied from Qt source" [Di Apr 14 2009] [18:23:17] I think the profile script to set the Qt plugin path, in particular. [Di Apr 14 2009] [18:23:24] jreznik: +1 [Di Apr 14 2009] [18:23:37] IMHO we should develop a KSplashQ fork which uses regular Qt. [Di Apr 14 2009] [18:23:47] It's late for F11, but it can be useful for F12. [Di Apr 14 2009] [18:24:05] With standard Qt, we could even use JPEG2000 compression. [Di Apr 14 2009] [18:24:14] kdelibs provides a plugin for QImage to load that. [Di Apr 14 2009] [18:24:26] But for now we're stuck with PNG only because of KSplashX. [Di Apr 14 2009] [18:24:47] nod, next topic? qt45/kde422 update status [Di Apr 14 2009] [18:24:55] Thema rdieter setzt das Kanalthema auf "KDE SIG Meeting -- http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/KDE/Meetings/2009-04-14 -- qt45/kde422 update status". [Di Apr 14 2009] [18:25:18] I think things have progressed fairly well wrt qt45/kde422. [Di Apr 14 2009] [18:25:36] Is there any big blockers remaining? (there are a few smaller items here and there, yes...) [Di Apr 14 2009] [18:25:53] The statuses of Qt-only apps I know of: [Di Apr 14 2009] [18:26:11] * psi is basically usable, though several minor annoyances have been reported [Di Apr 14 2009] [18:26:39] But I have no idea when they'll be fixed, so I don't think waiting for fixes is really an option unless they magically come in fast. [Di Apr 14 2009] [18:26:40] confirmed, active vs inactive buttons, being one. minor [Di Apr 14 2009] [18:27:28] let me put this another way, do folks think we're getting close to consider pushing this all to stable updates? [Di Apr 14 2009] [18:27:29] I've found this one - https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=189266 [Di Apr 14 2009] [18:27:34] Bug 189266: normal, NOR, ---, kdelibs-bugs kde org, UNCONFIRMED, Server list is not shown properly first time [Di Apr 14 2009] [18:27:40] * merkaartor is reported to crash in some cases, but not others. [Di Apr 14 2009] [18:28:20] and another one is kded4 consuming 100 % of cpu [Di Apr 14 2009] [18:28:23] jreznik: thats with konv4 though, right? [Di Apr 14 2009] [18:29:07] rdieter: yes... it's only to say - something wrong over there... I don't know if it affects some other apps [Di Apr 14 2009] [18:29:26] For merkaartor: different behavior for Rawhide vs. F10 and for i386 vs. x86_64, WTF?! For both psi and merkaartor, killefiz is the maintainer to ask for details. [Di Apr 14 2009] [18:29:39] I hope we can at least sort out the merkaartor crash. [Di Apr 14 2009] [18:30:08] I'm not aware of any other outstanding issues with Qt-only apps. qjackctl and qsynth have fixed builds in the update set now. [Di Apr 14 2009] [18:30:47] the kded4 100% cpu, and some reports of plasma crashes (with -1,-1 coordinates?) are 2 that worry me [Di Apr 14 2009] [18:31:08] jreznik: Some 100% CPU issues have been fixed by recent patches, are these not the one you're seeing? [Di Apr 14 2009] [18:31:26] I haven't kept track of what has been built and pushed out already of the incoming fixes. [Di Apr 14 2009] [18:31:49] rdieter: one collegue here has still this issue - I ask him if he updated recently [Di Apr 14 2009] [18:32:03] it dissappears after reset and it's ok for me [Di Apr 14 2009] [18:32:08] I recently included an upstream patch for the calendar widget doing 100% cpu [Di Apr 14 2009] [18:32:21] Hmmm, just checked, the kdelibs patches are in the latest update set. [Di Apr 14 2009] [18:32:40] ok, I ask him to update (if not) and we'll see [Di Apr 14 2009] [18:32:45] Got pushed to testing yesterday. [Di Apr 14 2009] [18:33:25] The calendar widget stuff is there too (kdebase-workspace-4.2.2-3). [Di Apr 14 2009] [18:33:40] ok, here's a tentative plan... we wait another ~week and plan on pushing stable early next week? (on or before our next sig meeting perhaps) [Di Apr 14 2009] [18:34:03] or is that too long (or too fast)? thoughts? [Di Apr 14 2009] [18:34:31] (and I'd like to hear than's opinion before we actually do anything, of course) [Di Apr 14 2009] [18:35:09] maybe too long but first I have to hear from people there's now 100 % on gauges :D [Di Apr 14 2009] [18:35:14] I'd love to figure out the merkaartor crash, any remaining 100% CPU issues and the "Plasma chokes on some config files" (a.k.a. -1,-1) issue. [Di Apr 14 2009] [18:35:37] I thought the merkaartor rebuild fixed it? [Di Apr 14 2009] [18:35:45] It didn't. [Di Apr 14 2009] [18:35:50] Talk to killefiz for details. [Di Apr 14 2009] [18:36:07] one person in the bug reported that it worked, arg. [Di Apr 14 2009] [18:36:14] I think the issue is somehow related to qgtkstyle. [Di Apr 14 2009] [18:36:31] Plus some other system-specific details, maybe. [Di Apr 14 2009] [18:36:53] The backtrace has QGtkStyle functions in it (which are part of Qt in 4.5). [Di Apr 14 2009] [18:37:18] ok [Di Apr 14 2009] [18:38:02] lastly, our favorite: bug #493061 [Di Apr 14 2009] [18:38:05] Bug https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=493061 medium, low, ---, ltinkl, ASSIGNED, kpackagekit translations not working [Di Apr 14 2009] [18:38:13] Thema rdieter setzt das Kanalthema auf "KDE SIG Meeting -- http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/KDE/Meetings/2009-04-14 -- #493061: kpackagekit translations not working". [Di Apr 14 2009] [18:38:23] any clues here, or are we stuck? :) [Di Apr 14 2009] [18:38:36] hmm, dunno what to add, I believed I fixed it :/ [Di Apr 14 2009] [18:39:00] ltinkl: does it work for you? [Di Apr 14 2009] [18:39:08] no [Di Apr 14 2009] [18:39:37] stuck it is... any upstream bugs, or contacts made wrt to this yet? [Di Apr 14 2009] [18:40:04] If not, it needs to happen asap [Di Apr 14 2009] [18:40:46] not here. ltinkl? Otherwise I take it to upstream bz [Di Apr 14 2009] [18:41:17] ye, probably reporting it upstream is the best option [Di Apr 14 2009] [18:41:42] together with the fact that the translations aren't packaged at all, unlike my fixed tarball [Di Apr 14 2009] [18:41:47] has upstream released a fixed tarball or is our version the only one which inlcudes the translations? [Di Apr 14 2009] [18:41:54] ok [Di Apr 14 2009] [18:42:44] SMParrish: any comment/opinion here on kpackage translations? [Di Apr 14 2009] [18:43:15] +kit [Di Apr 14 2009] [18:43:40] oh yeah, kpackage needs to be taken out back and shot, kpackagekit indeed [Di Apr 14 2009] [18:44:16] Thema rdieter setzt das Kanalthema auf "KDE SIG Meeting -- http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/KDE/Meetings/2009-04-14 -- open discussion". [Di Apr 14 2009] [18:44:22] anything else for today? [Di Apr 14 2009] [18:44:55] https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=484370 [Di Apr 14 2009] [18:44:57] Bug 484370: medium, low, ---, than, ASSIGNED, kde is leaking open file descriptors, causing SELinux AVC warnings [Di Apr 14 2009] [18:45:19] oh, the file descriptor thing... I trace that to be leaking all the way back to kdeinit4, the socket file descriptor for /tmp/ksocket-/kdeinit4__0 is among the leakage [Di Apr 14 2009] [18:45:23] SELinux is being annoying about those, but the bug is somewhere in KDE. [Di Apr 14 2009] [18:45:39] among others of course. [Di Apr 14 2009] [18:46:05] interestingly, apps started as part of session management do *not* have leaked fd's [Di Apr 14 2009] [18:46:24] apps started via kickoff/krunner -> leaked socket fd's [Di Apr 14 2009] [18:46:56] my debugging skills are stretched pretty thin at this point. [Di Apr 14 2009] [18:47:19] Been trying to find where (in kdelibs somewhere) the kdeinit4 socket gets created and/or dup'd [Di Apr 14 2009] [18:47:28] That socket should be opened with O_CLOEXEC and it isn't. [Di Apr 14 2009] [18:47:41] right, that's what I've been looking for [Di Apr 14 2009] [18:47:46] kdeinit4 doesn't exec, it only forks and loads the new executable as a library. [Di Apr 14 2009] [18:47:51] So O_CLOEXEC shouldn't break it. [Di Apr 14 2009] [18:48:11] And when running a non-KDE app, the exec will happen and the fd should get closed. [Di Apr 14 2009] [18:48:43] I'm still shocked that upstream can't reproduce this [Di Apr 14 2009] [18:49:22] anyway, any pointers/assistance to find the code that creates these sockets (esp kdeinit4__0) would be much appreciated. [Di Apr 14 2009] [18:49:23] Kubuntu might be disabling kdeinit4 entirely. [Di Apr 14 2009] [18:49:42] whoa, really? didn't know that was even possible [Di Apr 14 2009] [18:50:11] uf [Di Apr 14 2009] [18:50:12] kdeinit *is* kind of an evil hack, though [Di Apr 14 2009] [18:50:32] I think export KDE_IS_PRELINKED=1 is enough. [Di Apr 14 2009] [18:50:42] we set that, don't we? [Di Apr 14 2009] [18:50:59] Uhm, we do. [Di Apr 14 2009] [18:51:10] but only when prelinking is enabled. [Di Apr 14 2009] [18:51:14] But maybe that's exactly the broken code? [Di Apr 14 2009] [18:51:33] fyi, I disabled prelink on my laptop here [Di Apr 14 2009] [18:51:58] interesting... I'll try setting KDE_IS_PRELINKED anyway, and see [Di Apr 14 2009] [18:52:15] I have KDE_IS_PRELINKED set and I still see some stuff with kdeinit4 as the process name, especially kioslave stuff. [Di Apr 14 2009] [18:52:33] oh, I've gotta run to pick up kid from preschool, other mind finishing up the meeting? [Di Apr 14 2009] [18:52:34] But Konsole isn't run through kdeinit4. [Di Apr 14 2009] [18:52:47] Kevin_Kofler: and you do or do not see leakage too? [Di Apr 14 2009] [18:53:21] for example, running embedded konsole(3) inside of kile, I still see the socket fd's [Di Apr 14 2009] [18:53:45] anyway, gotta run. [Di Apr 14 2009] [18:53:51] I still see 35 fds with ls -l /proc/$(pidof konsole)/fd | wc -l [Di Apr 14 2009] [18:54:01] So KDE_IS_PRELINKED doesn't seem to help any. [Di Apr 14 2009] [18:54:02] Spitzname rdieter nennt sich jetzt rdieter_afk. [Di Apr 14 2009] [18:54:29] I guess it actually is using kdeinit4, just hacking the command line which shows up in ps ax. [Di Apr 14 2009] [18:55:06] It's a hack which some distros don't like, which is why Kubuntu might be disabling it entirely, but I have no idea if that's actually the case. [Di Apr 14 2009] [18:55:20] Nor how they do it if it is. [Di Apr 14 2009] [18:56:12] http://websvn.kde.org/trunk/KDE/kdelibs/kinit/ [Di Apr 14 2009] [18:56:15] This is the kdeinit code. [Di Apr 14 2009] [18:56:28] The sockets are probably created somewhere in there. [Di Apr 14 2009] [18:56:57] OK, anything else? [Di Apr 14 2009] [18:57:04] 3 minutes left. [Di Apr 14 2009] [18:58:12] who's going to prepare summary today :D ? [Di Apr 14 2009] [18:58:24] jreznik: Do you volunteer? :-) [Di Apr 14 2009] [18:59:09] It's my turn. [Di Apr 14 2009] [18:59:20] OK [Di Apr 14 2009] [18:59:55] Then that's all for today, thanks for coming! [Di Apr 14 2009] [19:00:01] Thema Kevin_Kofler setzt das Kanalthema auf "Channel is used by various Fedora groups and committees for their regular meetings | Note that meetings often get logged | For questions about using Fedora please ask in #fedora | See http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Meeting_channel for meeting schedule". [Di Apr 14 2009] [19:00:06] ok, great, I have to leave now... from morning in the office + dentist appointment today :) [Di Apr 14 2009] [19:00:10] thanks, bye