[Di Apr 29 2008] [18:00:46] Topic	rdieter setzt das Kanal-Topic auf "KDE SIG Meeting -- http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/KDE/Meetings/2008-04-29 -- Init".
[Di Apr 29 2008] [18:01:04] <rdieter>	KDE SIG Meeting -- http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/KDE/Meetings/2008-04-29 -- Init
[Di Apr 29 2008] [18:01:23] <rdieter>	who's present today? ping: Kevin_Kofler, ltinkl, svahl, than, kde*foo
[Di Apr 29 2008] [18:01:28] <ltinkl>	here
[Di Apr 29 2008] [18:01:32] <svahl>	(partly) present
[Di Apr 29 2008] [18:01:33] <Kevin_Kofler>	Present.
[Di Apr 29 2008] [18:02:02] 	 * rdieter doesn't see than around on irc.
[Di Apr 29 2008] [18:02:26] <rdieter>	well, agenda is pretty light today (ie, mostly empty).
[Di Apr 29 2008] [18:02:39] <mefoster>	present
[Di Apr 29 2008] [18:02:40] <Kevin_Kofler>	Well, I added some stuff a few seconds ago. ;-)
[Di Apr 29 2008] [18:02:41] Topic	rdieter setzt das Kanal-Topic auf "KDE SIG Meeting -- http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/KDE/Meetings/2008-04-29 -- Latest changes before final release".
[Di Apr 29 2008] [18:02:51] 	 * rdieter reloads wiki
[Di Apr 29 2008] [18:02:58] <rdieter>	ah.
[Di Apr 29 2008] [18:03:14] <rdieter>	topic: 1  Latest changes before final release
[Di Apr 29 2008] [18:03:58] <rdieter>	I think we're pretty well set release-wise, anything left to do?
[Di Apr 29 2008] [18:04:07] <mefoster>	Is the kdm TerminateServer=True fix going to go in?
[Di Apr 29 2008] [18:04:11] <Kevin_Kofler>	Getting kdebase-workspace-4.0.3-19.fc9 tagged f9-final maybe?
[Di Apr 29 2008] [18:04:23] <Kevin_Kofler>	(a.k.a. yet another kdebase-workspace patch)
[Di Apr 29 2008] [18:04:31] <rdieter>	well, the kdm/logout issue, but ajax said we was going to try to get that fixed properly in xorg-x11-xserver
[Di Apr 29 2008] [18:04:46] <mefoster>	Oh, okay, it would be nicer if it got fixed in X.
[Di Apr 29 2008] [18:05:09] <Kevin_Kofler>	Killing X in KDM isn't the nicest way to solve this problem. ;-)
[Di Apr 29 2008] [18:05:14] <Kevin_Kofler>	Though I suspect it's what GDM is doing.
[Di Apr 29 2008] [18:05:59] <rdieter>	afaik gdm doesn't restart X server, but not sure how/why it isn't affected here.
[Di Apr 29 2008] [18:07:45] <Kevin_Kofler>	Anything else we really want fixed in f9-final?
[Di Apr 29 2008] [18:08:06] <Kevin_Kofler>	Well, except the X.Org vesa stuff which the X folks are apparently taking care of.
[Di Apr 29 2008] [18:08:47] <rdieter>	4.0.3-19 fix is cosmetic, not sure if it's worth requested freeze break.
[Di Apr 29 2008] [18:08:58] <rdieter>	kdebase-workspace-4.0.3-19 that is
[Di Apr 29 2008] [18:09:11] <mefoster>	What's the change in -19?
[Di Apr 29 2008] [18:09:23] <rdieter>	- #444141: Initial wallpaper chooser has "EOS" preselected but wallpaper is "Fedora Waves"
[Di Apr 29 2008] [18:09:24] <Stalwart>	rounded borders in splash removed
[Di Apr 29 2008] [18:09:38] <rdieter>	bug #444141
[Di Apr 29 2008] [18:09:39] <buggbot>	Bug https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=444141 low, low, ---, Lukas Tinkl, ON_DEV , Initial wallpaper chooser has "EOS" preselected but wallpaper is "Fedora Waves"
[Di Apr 29 2008] [18:09:46] <Stalwart>	ah, right, rounded borders were in fedora-logos
[Di Apr 29 2008] [18:09:57] <Kevin_Kofler>	The fedora-logos fix is already tagged f9-final.
[Di Apr 29 2008] [18:10:18] <rdieter>	well, let's move on, we can discuss specific issues/bugs at the end.
[Di Apr 29 2008] [18:10:20] <mefoster>	As the bug reporter, I'm willing to let the wallpaper fix not be in final. :)
[Di Apr 29 2008] [18:10:33] Topic	rdieter setzt das Kanal-Topic auf "KDE SIG Meeting -- http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/KDE/Meetings/2008-04-29 -- Last-minute release notes (deadline May 1st)".
[Di Apr 29 2008] [18:10:52] <rdieter>	topic 2: Last-minute release notes (deadline May 1st)
[Di Apr 29 2008] [18:11:04] <rdieter>	anything release-notes worthy?
[Di Apr 29 2008] [18:11:21] <Kevin_Kofler>	I've done some trivial changes (mentioning the existence of compiz-kde in the repos and the new kdebase3-pim-ioslaves subpackage in the KDE 3 backwards compat section)
[Di Apr 29 2008] [18:11:26] 	 * rdieter goes to track down link to existing rel-notes
[Di Apr 29 2008] [18:11:36] <rdieter>	Kevin_Kofler: thx!
[Di Apr 29 2008] [18:11:36] <Kevin_Kofler>	I can't think of anything else, or I'd already have added it. ;-)
[Di Apr 29 2008] [18:12:15] <Kevin_Kofler>	Oh, and I changed "KDE4" to "KDE 4" in the Compiz section of the release notes. ;-)
[Di Apr 29 2008] [18:13:23] <rdieter>	wee, looks like f7,f8 updates push is commencing
[Di Apr 29 2008] [18:14:01] <rdieter>	well, ok, just keep rel-notes in mind if you find anything "interesting", and shout.
[Di Apr 29 2008] [18:14:04] <rdieter>	moving on...
[Di Apr 29 2008] [18:14:09] Topic	rdieter setzt das Kanal-Topic auf "KDE SIG Meeting -- http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/KDE/Meetings/2008-04-29 -- KDE 4.0.4 for F9 0-day updates".
[Di Apr 29 2008] [18:14:15] <rdieter>	topic 3: KDE 4.0.4 for F9 0-day updates
[Di Apr 29 2008] [18:14:37] <rdieter>	s/0-day/whenever ready/, sure. :)
[Di Apr 29 2008] [18:14:39] <Kevin_Kofler>	The situation here is that 4.0.4 is going to be tagged for release tomorrow and we're going to get killed if we try smuggling it into f9-final. ;-)
[Di Apr 29 2008] [18:14:52] <rdieter>	nod.
[Di Apr 29 2008] [18:14:56] <Kevin_Kofler>	So the earliest we can get this out is as an update on release day.
[Di Apr 29 2008] [18:15:05] <Kevin_Kofler>	We have 2 weeks, it should be doable.
[Di Apr 29 2008] [18:15:25] <ltinkl>	makes sense, it wouldn't be very wise to break F9 if something bad creeps in KDE 4.0.4
[Di Apr 29 2008] [18:16:21] <rdieter>	yup, no testing -> bad.  prepare kde-4.0.4 for updates-testing asap, and go from there.  sounds like a no-braniner, unless there's any objection?
[Di Apr 29 2008] [18:16:47] <Kevin_Kofler>	The problem is that there isn't going to be an official updates-testing before release day.
[Di Apr 29 2008] [18:16:51] 	 * rdieter isn't implying that someone with objections has no brain, in case that is unclear. :)
[Di Apr 29 2008] [18:17:22] <Kevin_Kofler>	So we might have to set up our own temporary test repo if we want this to get out as fast as possible.
[Di Apr 29 2008] [18:17:28] <rdieter>	Kevin_Kofler: so?  there isn't an 'updates' either before release day.
[Di Apr 29 2008] [18:17:46] <Kevin_Kofler>	Well, I'd like it out to updates on release day. :-)
[Di Apr 29 2008] [18:18:04] <Kevin_Kofler>	If we could manage to get it tested somehow in the 2 weeks to there, it would work.
[Di Apr 29 2008] [18:18:41] <rdieter>	Kevin_Kofler: well, I'd be very hesitant to do that, but could reconsider if I was convinced it received sufficient testing.
[Di Apr 29 2008] [18:19:17] <Kevin_Kofler>	The override tags might become a mess if we have to build last-minute fixes for f9-final though.
[Di Apr 29 2008] [18:19:20] <rdieter>	why rush anyway?  There's no ground-breaking stuff in 4.0.4 is there?
[Di Apr 29 2008] [18:19:40] <rdieter>	Kevin_Kofler: nod, need to be careful.
[Di Apr 29 2008] [18:19:58] <Kevin_Kofler>	So maybe waiting, building shortly before the release and pushing to updates-testing on release day is less error-prone.
[Di Apr 29 2008] [18:20:45] <rdieter>	sounds like a good plan
[Di Apr 29 2008] [18:21:23] <rdieter>	move on?
[Di Apr 29 2008] [18:22:42] <rdieter>	topic 4: KDE 4.1 snapshots for F10
[Di Apr 29 2008] [18:23:21] <rdieter>	kde 4.1 alpha tarballs were recently released, so we can start to think about importing kde-4.1 goodness into cvs (devel/F10 branch).
[Di Apr 29 2008] [18:23:55] <rdieter>	lvillani has begun playing/working on that a bit, I noticed. :)
[Di Apr 29 2008] [18:24:20] <rdieter>	any other thoughts or comments here?
[Di Apr 29 2008] [18:24:28] <Kevin_Kofler>	I'd suggest we go ahead and play around with this, then start worrying about 4.0.4 once we're done with it.
[Di Apr 29 2008] [18:24:37] <mefoster>	Just checking: are there plans to include 4.1 in Fedora 9 when it's out?
[Di Apr 29 2008] [18:25:16] <Kevin_Kofler>	That way we won't disrupt dist-f9 with interleaved 4.0.3 and 4.0.4 builds and override tag ping-pong and still don't get bored. ;-)
[Di Apr 29 2008] [18:25:24] <rdieter>	mefoster: yes
[Di Apr 29 2008] [18:25:48] <SMParrish>	How close to F10 release is the 4.1 release planned?
[Di Apr 29 2008] [18:26:05] <rdieter>	kde-4.1 is in July (ish) ?
[Di Apr 29 2008] [18:26:12] <rdieter>	F10 end of October
[Di Apr 29 2008] [18:26:36] <Kevin_Kofler>	I have checked what depends on the KDE 4.0 libplasma: compiz-kde, kdenetwork, kdeutils, kdebase-workspace-* (duh), extragear-plasma (duh²).
[Di Apr 29 2008] [18:26:36] <SMParrish>	So we have a good cushion if they slip the 4.1 release then
[Di Apr 29 2008] [18:26:50] <Kevin_Kofler>	This stuff absolutely needs to be updated/rebuilt together with KDE 4.1.
[Di Apr 29 2008] [18:27:00] <Kevin_Kofler>	I'm not sure what compiz-kde is doing linking to libplasma.
[Di Apr 29 2008] [18:27:33] <Kevin_Kofler>	The others are plasmoids.
[Di Apr 29 2008] [18:27:54] <Kevin_Kofler>	extragear-plasma will have to be updated from SVN trunk, it should already be ported to 4.1 (that's the whole reason why there aren't any more 4.0.x releases of it).
[Di Apr 29 2008] [18:28:04] <Kevin_Kofler>	The other stuff is part of KDE itself.
[Di Apr 29 2008] [18:28:28] <Kevin_Kofler>	Hopefully the other libs should be binary-compatible.
[Di Apr 29 2008] [18:28:34] <Kevin_Kofler>	We'll notice pretty soon if things break. ;-)
[Di Apr 29 2008] [18:28:36] <rdieter>	imo, we should announce to fedora-devel-announce our plans to import kde-4.1, give a heads-up to impending F10/devel breakage. any sucker... um... volunteers to do that?
[Di Apr 29 2008] [18:29:03] <ltinkl>	I noticed a big plasma API rewrite going on in trunk (KDE 4.1)
[Di Apr 29 2008] [18:29:14] <Kevin_Kofler>	I know.
[Di Apr 29 2008] [18:29:34] <rdieter>	http://aseigo.blogspot.com/2008/04/and-all-kings-men.html
[Di Apr 29 2008] [18:29:41] <SMParrish>	Is 4.1 still going to include the new KOffice and KDEPim upgrades?
[Di Apr 29 2008] [18:29:44] <Kevin_Kofler>	I'm worried about compiz-kde, the other stuff will just be upgraded in tandem with kdebase-workspace.
[Di Apr 29 2008] [18:29:54] <Kevin_Kofler>	KOffice: no idea
[Di Apr 29 2008] [18:29:58] <ltinkl>	not sure how fast will all the plasmoids in extragear/playground catch up
[Di Apr 29 2008] [18:30:01] <Kevin_Kofler>	kdepim: planned AFAIK
[Di Apr 29 2008] [18:30:19] <Kevin_Kofler>	I suggest we bump kdepim in Rawhide to 4.1 snapshots.
[Di Apr 29 2008] [18:30:29] <Kevin_Kofler>	And kdevelop too (needs kdevplatform reviewed though).
[Di Apr 29 2008] [18:30:43] <Kevin_Kofler>	If they really won't be ready for F10, welcome Mr. Epoch. ;-)
[Di Apr 29 2008] [18:30:43] <SMParrish>	So we are looking at alot of psbl breakage then with all the new bits
[Di Apr 29 2008] [18:30:44] <rdieter>	kdepim-4.1 will likely be F10+ only tho, not to be included in F9 updates.  We'll have to wait-n-see tho to make a final judgement.
[Di Apr 29 2008] [18:30:52] <Kevin_Kofler>	rdieter: +1
[Di Apr 29 2008] [18:31:11] <svahl>	+1
[Di Apr 29 2008] [18:31:15] <SMParrish>	+1
[Di Apr 29 2008] [18:31:15] <ltinkl>	nod nod
[Di Apr 29 2008] [18:31:23] <Kevin_Kofler>	Unfortunately, Quanta (kdewebdev) is still in a sorry state.
[Di Apr 29 2008] [18:31:32] <Kevin_Kofler>	Last I checked, the kdewebdev snapshots still didn't include Quanta. :-(
[Di Apr 29 2008] [18:31:42] <rdieter>	crapage.
[Di Apr 29 2008] [18:31:52] <Kevin_Kofler>	So they're essentially useless (Quanta is the main reason kdewebdev exists).
[Di Apr 29 2008] [18:32:10] <Kevin_Kofler>	I guess we'll just have to live with kdewebdev 3.5 until things get sorted out.
[Di Apr 29 2008] [18:32:32] <Kevin_Kofler>	The hooks (like zapping kdewebdev translations from kde-l10n) are there already anyway.
[Di Apr 29 2008] [18:32:42] <rdieter>	well, I guess I'll volunteer to send the kde-4.1 announcement of doom.
[Di Apr 29 2008] [18:33:08] <Kevin_Kofler>	I don't understand the point of shipping a "kdewebdev" tarball without Quanta, but it was the explicit wish of the kdewebdev upstream maintainers.
[Di Apr 29 2008] [18:33:17] <rdieter>	anything else kde-4.1-wise?
[Di Apr 29 2008] [18:33:55] <Kevin_Kofler>	With 4.1, kdesdk should obsolete kaider, kdeutils should obsolete okteta.
[Di Apr 29 2008] [18:34:35] Topic	rdieter setzt das Kanal-Topic auf "KDE SIG Meeting -- http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/KDE/Meetings/2008-04-29 -- Open Discussion".
[Di Apr 29 2008] [18:34:38] <Kevin_Kofler>	(The reason I haven't updated kaider to a Lokalize snapshot is that they entered 4.1 "new feature" mode soon after we talked about it and I really didn't want to rush half-completed features into F9.)
[Di Apr 29 2008] [18:34:53] <rdieter>	topic: open discussion
[Di Apr 29 2008] [18:35:07] <rdieter>	that's pretty much it for the agenda, open floor, pandmonium.
[Di Apr 29 2008] [18:36:55] <svahl>	I've added pavucontrol on request to the live images
[Di Apr 29 2008] [18:37:09] <SMParrish>	well bug reports on rawhide have dropped off.  This weekend alot of the NEED bugs will be autoclosed so list will drop dramatically
[Di Apr 29 2008] [18:37:56] <rdieter>	svahl: thx.
[Di Apr 29 2008] [18:38:38] <Kevin_Kofler>	svahl: You might have some more room left now that xmms-libs and gtk+ (1.2) are gone from the kdenetwork deps.
[Di Apr 29 2008] [18:39:43] <SMParrish>	svahl: you said you were going to try an inplace upgrade of F8->F9 rawhide how did it go?
[Di Apr 29 2008] [18:40:11] <svahl>	I'll check that tomorrow. With yesterdays rawhide the x86_64 image is 698 megs
[Di Apr 29 2008] [18:41:21] <svahl>	SMParrish: I've only had the time to do a clean F8 installation in vmware and upgrade it to F9. kdebase was missing, but the rest was fine
[Di Apr 29 2008] [18:42:40] <SMParrish>	svahl:thx
[Di Apr 29 2008] [18:42:56] <Kevin_Kofler>	Maybe we want to drag in kdebase as a dep of kdebase-workspace?
[Di Apr 29 2008] [18:42:57] 	 * rdieter wonders if adding to kdebase-workspace, Obsoletes: kdebase < 6:4 was a good idea or not , this is likely the cause of kdebase going missing.
[Di Apr 29 2008] [18:43:15] <rdieter>	better kdebase missing that kdebase-workspace tho
[Di Apr 29 2008] [18:43:19] <rdieter>	than even
[Di Apr 29 2008] [18:43:53] <Kevin_Kofler>	Can we add a Requires: kdebase4 ('4' to make sure kdebase3 won't match it, ever) to kdebase-workspace and get it tagged f9-final?
[Di Apr 29 2008] [18:44:19] <rdieter>	Kevin_Kofler: maybe, can't imagine anyone wanting kdebase-workspace without kdebase, but it would be artificial
[Di Apr 29 2008] [18:44:26] <Kevin_Kofler>	Installing kdebase-workspace without Dolphin and Konqueror isn't really what people will want, I think.
[Di Apr 29 2008] [18:44:34] <svahl>	+1 (at least temporary for the release date and maybe some weeks)
[Di Apr 29 2008] [18:44:39] <Kevin_Kofler>	Though on the other hand kdebase-workspace is dragged in by deps on stuff like kdeutils.
[Di Apr 29 2008] [18:45:16] <rdieter>	why does kdeutils pull in kdebase-workspace again?
[Di Apr 29 2008] [18:45:26] <Kevin_Kofler>	libplasma dep, maybe other workspace libs.
[Di Apr 29 2008] [18:45:52] <rdieter>	-libs are ok, I just don't want *all* of kdebase-workspace, if we can help it.
[Di Apr 29 2008] [18:46:20] <Kevin_Kofler>	But -libs currently Requires the main package.
[Di Apr 29 2008] [18:47:28] <rdieter>	oops, hmm...
[Di Apr 29 2008] [18:48:43] <rdieter>	well, the pain and agony of monolithic vs. split packages again.  Looks like this case may need additional love.
[Di Apr 29 2008] [18:49:21] <rdieter>	atm, things are Req'd to be on the safe side.
[Di Apr 29 2008] [18:50:31] <rdieter>	well, so Kevin_Kofler's proposal was to add Requires: kdebase4 to kdebase-workspace.  opinions?
[Di Apr 29 2008] [18:51:00] <mefoster>	Doesn't sound like it could hurt anything ...
[Di Apr 29 2008] [18:51:13] <SMParrish>	I agree
[Di Apr 29 2008] [18:51:22] <Kevin_Kofler>	Or maybe Requires: kdebase >= 6:4
[Di Apr 29 2008] [18:51:22] <svahl>	This would make things easier for the "yum-updaters"
[Di Apr 29 2008] [18:51:33] <Kevin_Kofler>	which is the actual name and the version should filter out any kdebase3.
[Di Apr 29 2008] [18:51:51] <rdieter>	I'm game: +1  (kdebase4 should be sufficient, imo)
[Di Apr 29 2008] [18:51:57] <rdieter>	but either works, I guess.
[Di Apr 29 2008] [18:52:42] <Kevin_Kofler>	The "yum-updaters" who didn't have kdebase4 (Dolphin) in F8, I should add. kdebase obsoletes kdebase4, so those who had it get it added already. ;-)
[Di Apr 29 2008] [18:53:04] 	 * rdieter thought that was already handled. ??
[Di Apr 29 2008] [18:53:19] <Kevin_Kofler>	It is.
[Di Apr 29 2008] [18:53:25] <Kevin_Kofler>	Those who had kdebase4 already get kdebase.
[Di Apr 29 2008] [18:53:29] <rdieter>	oh. :)
[Di Apr 29 2008] [18:53:38] <rdieter>	ltinkl: ?
[Di Apr 29 2008] [18:53:41] <Kevin_Kofler>	The kdebase-workspace dep is being added for those who didn't have kdebase4.
[Di Apr 29 2008] [18:54:41] <rdieter>	Kevin_Kofler: mind ml'ing kde-redhat-devel and/or than directly?  I'd feel better having his input before moving forward.
[Di Apr 29 2008] [18:55:00] <Kevin_Kofler>	OK, writing mail now.
[Di Apr 29 2008] [18:56:00] <rdieter>	anyone planning any celebration or release parties for f9?
[Di Apr 29 2008] [18:58:11] <rdieter>	I was thinking about it, got a few folks round my parts that may be interested.  may end up being burned-out/tired by then, who knows. :)
[Di Apr 29 2008] [18:59:04] <rdieter>	ok, time's about up for today, let's head back to our #fedora-kde cubby-hole.
[Di Apr 29 2008] [18:59:10] <rdieter>	KDE SIG meeting END
[Di Apr 29 2008] [18:59:18] Topic	rdieter setzt das Kanal-Topic auf "Channel is used by various Fedora groups and committees for their regular meetings | Note that meetings often get logged | For questions about using Fedora please ask in #fedora | See http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/FedoraMeetingChannel for meeting schedule".
[Di Apr 29 2008] [18:59:52] <Kevin_Kofler>	Will we still be able to use this timeslot next week or will FPC want it?
[Di Apr 29 2008] [19:00:57] <rdieter>	Kevin_Kofler: I think this slot is still open as-is, FPC is still considerring moving.