*** Logfile started *** on Tue Jan 13 17:00:00 2009 [Tue Jan 13 2009] [17:00:20] So are you triagers done here? :-) [Tue Jan 13 2009] [17:00:34] yep [Tue Jan 13 2009] [17:01:02] Topic Kevin_Kofler sets the channel topic to "KDE SIG Meeting - https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/KDE/Meetings/2009-01-13 - Init / Agenda". [Tue Jan 13 2009] [17:01:14] So it's time for the KDE SIG meeting. [Tue Jan 13 2009] [17:01:28] As you may notice while looking at the wiki page, the agenda is currently, well, empty. ;-) [Tue Jan 13 2009] [17:01:32] * jreznik is ready for KDE SIG meeting [Tue Jan 13 2009] [17:01:39] So if you have anything to discuss, please speak up now. :-) [Tue Jan 13 2009] [17:01:46] Quit alexxed has left this server (Remote closed the connection). [Tue Jan 13 2009] [17:01:47] Who's present? [Tue Jan 13 2009] [17:01:56] * rdieter is 1/2 here [Tue Jan 13 2009] [17:02:27] 1/2 (needs to get ready for class during) [Tue Jan 13 2009] [17:02:28] * SMParrish here [Tue Jan 13 2009] [17:02:50] present [Tue Jan 13 2009] [17:02:54] topic: kde42 blocker, comments/additions: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/showdependencytree.cgi?id=kde42 [Tue Jan 13 2009] [17:03:45] OK, I have 2 more: [Tue Jan 13 2009] [17:03:58] KDE 4.1.4 - anything to add before it goes stable? [Tue Jan 13 2009] [17:04:10] kdesdk (Umbrello) build failure in Rawhide due to boost [Tue Jan 13 2009] [17:04:21] * hanthana here [Tue Jan 13 2009] [17:04:25] Join drago01 has joined this channel (n=linux@chello062178124130.3.13.univie.teleweb.at). [Tue Jan 13 2009] [17:04:28] I'm about to update the wiki, so any other topics? Bugs to discuss maybe? [Tue Jan 13 2009] [17:04:32] Quit drago01 has left this server (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). [Tue Jan 13 2009] [17:04:43] Kevin_Kofler: already updating [Tue Jan 13 2009] [17:04:55] Join drago01 has joined this channel (n=linux@chello062178124130.3.13.univie.teleweb.at). [Tue Jan 13 2009] [17:05:20] jreznik: OK [Tue Jan 13 2009] [17:05:29] is Requires: mysql-server needed in akonadi? [Tue Jan 13 2009] [17:05:43] Yes, next topic? ;-) [Tue Jan 13 2009] [17:05:44] kudos to SMParrish for recent bug triage, made job of updating the kde42 tracker easy. [Tue Jan 13 2009] [17:06:03] To elaborate on it: it's needed unless you already have a MySQL server running somewhere and point it to it by hand. [Tue Jan 13 2009] [17:06:15] So to have a working default config, it's needed (and Akonadi will start the server). [Tue Jan 13 2009] [17:06:33] (as the current user, not as a system service) [Tue Jan 13 2009] [17:07:02] hm, most users doesn't like this requirement in KDE [Tue Jan 13 2009] [17:08:08] shrug, http://techbase.kde.org/Projects/PIM/Akonadi#Akonadi_FAQ [Tue Jan 13 2009] [17:08:47] Topic Kevin_Kofler sets the channel topic to "KDE SIG Meeting - https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/KDE/Meetings/2009-01-13 - mysql-server requires for akonadi". [Tue Jan 13 2009] [17:09:08] than: I know, I also don't like it, but it's as things are. [Tue Jan 13 2009] [17:09:30] without it, akonadi simply does not work... alternative is to ship something non-functional [Tue Jan 13 2009] [17:09:30] And as they said in the FAQ rdieter pointed to, they tried other solutions and none worked. [Tue Jan 13 2009] [17:09:54] Well, patching it to use SQLite and have it be horribly buggy would be the third alternative. [Tue Jan 13 2009] [17:10:20] Maybe we could get it to use mysql-embedded like Amarok. [Tue Jan 13 2009] [17:10:28] But they said they tried it and didn't get it to work. [Tue Jan 13 2009] [17:11:00] that's also in the faq. :) I think discussing this here doesn't make sense -> #akonadi yes, here no [Tue Jan 13 2009] [17:11:03] And I'm not sure it will really change much to have the MySQL server running inside the Akonadi server or standalone, it's still a MySQL server. [Tue Jan 13 2009] [17:11:18] rdieter: +1, so let's move on. :-) [Tue Jan 13 2009] [17:11:29] it's not truth anymore that only opensuse has mysql-embedded [Tue Jan 13 2009] [17:11:43] who says that? [Tue Jan 13 2009] [17:12:18] rdieter: it's in faq... (only OpenSUSE provided usable packages, needed a patched QSQL driver). - question is what does it mean 'usable' [Tue Jan 13 2009] [17:12:55] It was written before Amarok forced everyone to package mysql-embedded (by supporting nothing else). [Tue Jan 13 2009] [17:12:57] ah... [Tue Jan 13 2009] [17:13:22] But there are still the other issues. [Tue Jan 13 2009] [17:13:48] IMHO using another DB is a no-go unless we can get upstream buy-in for it (at least for 4.3 so we can backport it). [Tue Jan 13 2009] [17:13:54] probably we should split part in kdebase-runtime that requires akonadi [Tue Jan 13 2009] [17:14:08] Join ltinkl has joined this channel (n=ltinkl@194.212.22.14). [Tue Jan 13 2009] [17:14:12] so users can remove it if they don't want to have it [Tue Jan 13 2009] [17:14:20] than: kdepim is already not fully functional without Akonadi and soon none of kdepim will work without it. [Tue Jan 13 2009] [17:14:29] than: nod, that's acceptable, then only akonadi-using apps will pull it in [Tue Jan 13 2009] [17:14:32] Soon may be as early as 4.3 or maybe 4.4. [Tue Jan 13 2009] [17:15:10] Kevin_Kofler: the use-case of a few kde apps installed by a gnome-user, is relevant here [Tue Jan 13 2009] [17:15:16] Kevin_Kofler: such users don't want to have kdepim [Tue Jan 13 2009] [17:15:23] so it's not a problem [Tue Jan 13 2009] [17:16:05] So kdepimlibs and kdebase-runtime will probably both need splitting. [Tue Jan 13 2009] [17:16:16] slightly offtopic, but I've been asked repeatedly recently if we could package systemsettings separately too, so gnome users wouldn't have to install all of kdebase-workspace... not sure how sane that is... [Tue Jan 13 2009] [17:16:51] what good is systemsettings alone? [Tue Jan 13 2009] [17:17:01] Setting stuff for KDE apps. [Tue Jan 13 2009] [17:17:05] But it needs KCMs to work. [Tue Jan 13 2009] [17:17:10] Those would have to be packaged with it. [Tue Jan 13 2009] [17:17:13] IN particular, gnome users wanting to configure phonon [Tue Jan 13 2009] [17:17:16] Join fab has joined this channel (n=bellet@bellet.info). [Tue Jan 13 2009] [17:17:19] And there are KCMs all over KDE. [Tue Jan 13 2009] [17:17:28] don't lots already depend on workspace already? [Tue Jan 13 2009] [17:17:37] Some are in kdebase-runtime, some in kdebase(-apps) etc. [Tue Jan 13 2009] [17:17:53] MathStuf: In 4.2 most of them no longer need kdebase-workspace. [Tue Jan 13 2009] [17:17:56] ah [Tue Jan 13 2009] [17:17:58] Plasma is now in kdelibs. [Tue Jan 13 2009] [17:18:23] Some stuff still needs libs from workspace (e.g. kdeartwork, kdeplasma-addons), but most stuff only needed it for libplasma. [Tue Jan 13 2009] [17:18:25] don't think it's feasible with all the different kcm's scattered around [Tue Jan 13 2009] [17:19:39] doesn't systemsettings simply use/display whichever kcm's are available? [Tue Jan 13 2009] [17:20:05] rdieter: Yes. [Tue Jan 13 2009] [17:20:20] The problem is, that may be pretty incomplete if you don't have more KDE stuff installed. [Tue Jan 13 2009] [17:20:22] so what's the problem (per ltinkl 's comment)? [Tue Jan 13 2009] [17:20:43] of course it's incomplete, but should be complete for what is currently installed, no? [Tue Jan 13 2009] [17:21:15] it could get messy yeah, and maybe a mess we don't want to touch [Tue Jan 13 2009] [17:22:53] Well, I think we need to move on, we have more stuff to discuss. [Tue Jan 13 2009] [17:23:05] Topic Kevin_Kofler sets the channel topic to "KDE SIG Meeting - https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/KDE/Meetings/2009-01-13 - KDE 4.1.4 - anything to add before it goes stable?". [Tue Jan 13 2009] [17:23:13] Next topic: KDE 4.1.4 - anything to add before it goes stable? [Tue Jan 13 2009] [17:23:20] So 4.1.4 is now queued for testing. [Tue Jan 13 2009] [17:23:37] Also in it: system versions of libical and libgadu are now used. [Tue Jan 13 2009] [17:23:37] kcm: we can ask upstream if they can clean it's mess? [Tue Jan 13 2009] [17:23:43] please add new kdebase that i built today [Tue Jan 13 2009] [17:24:10] than: OK [Tue Jan 13 2009] [17:24:26] Is there anything else you want to get into the 4.1.4 update? [Tue Jan 13 2009] [17:24:28] than: I wondered what does it fix? :) [Tue Jan 13 2009] [17:24:30] Join J5 has joined this channel (n=quintice@66.187.234.199). [Tue Jan 13 2009] [17:24:36] Respun tarball from upstream. [Tue Jan 13 2009] [17:24:49] The upstream tag probably has the story of what changed. [Tue Jan 13 2009] [17:24:55] ye but I didn't see any notice upstream what had changed [Tue Jan 13 2009] [17:24:59] regression in dolphin [Tue Jan 13 2009] [17:25:07] ah, the copy & paste problem? [Tue Jan 13 2009] [17:25:13] yes [Tue Jan 13 2009] [17:25:17] k [Tue Jan 13 2009] [17:25:33] http://websvn.kde.org/?view=rev&revision=910285 [Tue Jan 13 2009] [17:25:47] http://websvn.kde.org/?view=rev&revision=910155 [Tue Jan 13 2009] [17:26:05] * ltinkl just didn't see any mail on kde-packager about the respun tarball [Tue Jan 13 2009] [17:26:32] Scanning http://websvn.kde.org/tags/KDE/4.1.4/ for recent changes is the way to know what changed. :-) [Tue Jan 13 2009] [17:27:02] ltinkl: Are you updating the updates or do you want me to do it? [Tue Jan 13 2009] [17:27:14] I can do it [Tue Jan 13 2009] [17:27:25] ltinkl: OK, go ahead. [Tue Jan 13 2009] [17:27:32] kdebase-4.1.4-2.fc{9,10} [Tue Jan 13 2009] [17:27:40] thx [Tue Jan 13 2009] [17:28:59] So I think that's all about 4.1.4 for now, let's move on to the next topic. [Tue Jan 13 2009] [17:29:05] Topic Kevin_Kofler sets the channel topic to "KDE SIG Meeting - https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/KDE/Meetings/2009-01-13 - kde42 blocker, comments/additions: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/showdependencytree.cgi?id=kde42". [Tue Jan 13 2009] [17:29:10] kde42 blocker, comments/additions: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/showdependencytree.cgi?id=kde42 [Tue Jan 13 2009] [17:30:24] The bugs blocked by the tracker (second list) are stuff which is fixed in 4.2, the bugs blocking this tracker (first list) are stuff we want fixed before we push out 4.2 to our stable releases. [Tue Jan 13 2009] [17:30:51] suppose could create a bug to add "patch to disable desktop-effects by default" ? [Tue Jan 13 2009] [17:30:53] The libv4l stuff doesn't strictly block the 4.2 update, but the sooner we handle it, the better. [Tue Jan 13 2009] [17:31:16] rdieter: I think that's pretty easy for me to do. [Tue Jan 13 2009] [17:31:18] the indi support in kdeedu isn't strictly a blocker either [Tue Jan 13 2009] [17:31:34] Well, the indi stuff is a regression (it used to be bundled). [Tue Jan 13 2009] [17:31:39] If we can get it packaged, that would be great. [Tue Jan 13 2009] [17:31:44] Kevin_Kofler: I'm working on it now... [Tue Jan 13 2009] [17:31:52] jreznik: On what? [Tue Jan 13 2009] [17:31:56] v4l2 [Tue Jan 13 2009] [17:32:09] Great. [Tue Jan 13 2009] [17:32:11] Join alexxed has joined this channel (n=alex@dyn-85.186.119.28.tm.upcnet.ro). [Tue Jan 13 2009] [17:33:14] jreznik: cool, I'd also like my lappy camera to work :) [Tue Jan 13 2009] [17:33:15] If you get Kopete done, you may also want to have a look at xine-lib, that can normally stream v4l stuff and also lacks support for libv4l. (But it doesn't do capturing, so it isn't used much for webcams, so it isn't that important, Kopete is more urgent.) [Tue Jan 13 2009] [17:33:42] (Still, being able to test your webcam with Kaffeine would be nice.) [Tue Jan 13 2009] [17:33:56] ok [Tue Jan 13 2009] [17:34:23] jreznik: the corresponding KDE bugreport has a nice HOWTO [Tue Jan 13 2009] [17:34:46] ltinkl: I know and there are some patched packages in Fedora like amsn [Tue Jan 13 2009] [17:34:52] jreznik: http://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=177338#c1 [Tue Jan 13 2009] [17:34:53] Bug 177338: is not accessible. [Tue Jan 13 2009] [17:35:11] Stupid bot... [Tue Jan 13 2009] [17:35:13] started working on it hour before meeting... [Tue Jan 13 2009] [17:35:15] buggbot: su pls :) [Tue Jan 13 2009] [17:35:15] ltinkl: Error: "su" is not a valid command. [Tue Jan 13 2009] [17:35:20] lol [Tue Jan 13 2009] [17:36:39] But about desktop effects, I was saying: it's fairly easy to patch, but the question is: what should be the default in Fedora? [Tue Jan 13 2009] [17:36:52] Off by default everywhere? Off by default in F9 and F10, on in F11+? [Tue Jan 13 2009] [17:37:07] Or follow upstream and have it just on by default everywhere their "self-test" passes? [Tue Jan 13 2009] [17:37:14] Kevin_Kofler: what cards/configs have problems? [Tue Jan 13 2009] [17:37:19] Kevin_Kofler: on with self-test [Tue Jan 13 2009] [17:37:34] ltinkl: The problem is, the self-test doesn't help much if it crashes. [Tue Jan 13 2009] [17:37:40] to avoid regressions, I'd feel better off for < f11, f11+ is an option [Tue Jan 13 2009] [17:37:44] It can detect misrendering, but if it outright crashes, it's screwed. [Tue Jan 13 2009] [17:37:44] I can discuss this with Seli, how safe this is [Tue Jan 13 2009] [17:38:00] ltinkl: +1 [Tue Jan 13 2009] [17:38:11] They tried to detect crashes and disable it on the next start, but AFAIK this got disabled in 4.2 because it didn't work properly. [Tue Jan 13 2009] [17:38:24] the self-test shouldn't crash... but who knows :) [Tue Jan 13 2009] [17:38:47] in any case, I'll investigate this [Tue Jan 13 2009] [17:38:47] if it crashes, it should assume it'll not work and disable DE [Tue Jan 13 2009] [17:38:48] for me, since intel945 performance has regressed so much on f10, I could almost watch pixels drawing on the screen with compositing (which was enabled by default) [Tue Jan 13 2009] [17:39:06] ah [Tue Jan 13 2009] [17:39:19] rdieter: quite the opposite here with nvidia :p working flawlessly with their recent drivers [Tue Jan 13 2009] [17:39:27] Graphics performance now measured in pixels per second? ;-) [Tue Jan 13 2009] [17:39:30] if it was nvidia + blob, I've got a mobile card working fine with nv, just recommend that [Tue Jan 13 2009] [17:39:36] ltinkl: But we don't support those drivers... [Tue Jan 13 2009] [17:39:50] So if they're the only ones which work, then it's not looking good. [Tue Jan 13 2009] [17:40:05] but that's what like 70% of users are using [Tue Jan 13 2009] [17:40:08] I propose we postpone until ltinkl gets Seli's opinion [Tue Jan 13 2009] [17:40:30] yup, let's move on [Tue Jan 13 2009] [17:40:58] Quit pingou_laptop has left this server (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). [Tue Jan 13 2009] [17:41:02] ok [Tue Jan 13 2009] [17:41:05] Well, he'll certainly be biased in favor of the feature he wrote, but still it's worth talking to him. [Tue Jan 13 2009] [17:41:49] Topic Kevin_Kofler sets the channel topic to "KDE SIG Meeting - https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/KDE/Meetings/2009-01-13 - kdesdk (Umbrello) build failure in Rawhide due to boost". [Tue Jan 13 2009] [17:41:55] Next topic: kdesdk (Umbrello) build failure in Rawhide due to boost [Tue Jan 13 2009] [17:42:34] The issue is: Rawhide got a new boost. Umbrello (part of kdesdk) uses Boost (at compile time only, it uses some templated headers from it) and fails to build with the new boost. [Tue Jan 13 2009] [17:43:54] report issue to bugs.kde.org ? Is it clear whether the problem/bug is will umbrello or boost? [Tue Jan 13 2009] [17:44:00] is with... [Tue Jan 13 2009] [17:44:33] Not to me, at least. [Tue Jan 13 2009] [17:44:49] file a bug or complain to kde-packager [Tue Jan 13 2009] [17:45:13] http://koji.fedoraproject.org/koji/getfile?taskID=1041405&name=build.log [Tue Jan 13 2009] [17:45:49] +1 to both (bug, complain) :) I can do it later today... [Tue Jan 13 2009] [17:46:43] It fails in codeimport/kdevcppparser. [Tue Jan 13 2009] [17:47:48] Join Zool^ has joined this channel (n=kaland@19.81-166-29.customer.lyse.net). [Tue Jan 13 2009] [17:48:56] Hmmm, chehrlic added this one for M$VC: http://websvn.kde.org/trunk/KDE/kdesdk/umbrello/umbrello/codeimport/kdevcppparser/preprocesslexer.h?r1=887978&r2=902899 [Tue Jan 13 2009] [17:49:02] Quit alexxed has left this server ("Leaving."). [Tue Jan 13 2009] [17:49:06] Join Kick_ has joined this channel (n=karsten@nat/redhat/x-912380c456d97ae1). [Tue Jan 13 2009] [17:49:38] Apparently g++ is also complaining about this missing. [Tue Jan 13 2009] [17:49:54] In any case it's not fixed in KDE SVN trunk. [Tue Jan 13 2009] [17:50:19] is it really caused by boost and not a newer g++? [Tue Jan 13 2009] [17:50:48] I think it's boost. [Tue Jan 13 2009] [17:50:54] Part MathStuf has left this channel ("Failure: Success!"). [Tue Jan 13 2009] [17:50:58] F11 has 1.37.0 which is the same as in chehrlic's comment. [Tue Jan 13 2009] [17:51:18] F10 has 1.34.1. [Tue Jan 13 2009] [17:51:34] So what he thought is an M$VC issue is actually due to the new Boost. [Tue Jan 13 2009] [17:52:14] At least chehrlic's M$VC and our Rawhide g++ 4.3.2 are failing with the same error. [Tue Jan 13 2009] [17:52:28] (STATIC_ASSERTION_FAILURE is being referenced.) [Tue Jan 13 2009] [17:52:53] And I suspect chehrlic's commit is the wrong fix, it's a hack around the issue, I think STATIC_ASSERTION_FAILURE intentionally isn't defined. [Tue Jan 13 2009] [17:53:02] The real problem is that the static assertion is failing in the first place. [Tue Jan 13 2009] [17:53:21] I guess we should talk to chehrlic. [Tue Jan 13 2009] [17:53:47] As a quick workaround, we could try removing the #ifdef Q_CC_MSVC to see if that gets it to build. [Tue Jan 13 2009] [17:54:46] But I think it's the wrong fix. [Tue Jan 13 2009] [17:54:48] rdieter? [Tue Jan 13 2009] [17:56:04] my insufficient c++-ninja-template-fu and current state-of-mind isn't capable of making an informed decision, I'll continue with plan a: and report the issue to raise it's visibility [Tue Jan 13 2009] [17:56:23] and refer to the aforementioned commentary and svn revision [Tue Jan 13 2009] [17:57:01] my gut thinks you (Kevin) is right about it being the wrong fix tho. [Tue Jan 13 2009] [17:57:30] that said, I'd be happy to try it as a temp workaround to get it to build for rawhide in the meantime [Tue Jan 13 2009] [17:57:32] I'll try a build with the workaround so we at least have something which builds. [Tue Jan 13 2009] [17:57:52] It'll also add some data towards a real fix. [Tue Jan 13 2009] [17:59:12] Topic Kevin_Kofler sets the channel topic to "KDE SIG Meeting - https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/KDE/Meetings/2009-01-13 - Open discussion". [Tue Jan 13 2009] [17:59:26] OK, that was it with the agenda, we're basically out of time, so anything else (quickly!)? [Tue Jan 13 2009] [18:01:08] ok, the end :) [Tue Jan 13 2009] [18:01:57] Topic Kevin_Kofler sets the channel topic to "Channel is used by various Fedora groups and committees for their regular meetings | Note that meetings often get logged | For questions about using Fedora please ask in #fedora | See http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/FedoraMeetingChannel for meeting schedule". [Tue Jan 13 2009] [18:02:13] Part Kevin_Kofler has left this channel ("Bye!").