[Di Jan 22 2008] [17:00:05] Topic rdieter setzt das Kanal-Topic auf "KDE SIG Meeting | http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/KDE/Meetings/2008-01-22 | Init". [Di Jan 22 2008] [17:00:18] kde sig meeting start. [Di Jan 22 2008] [17:00:25] hi all, who's present today? [Di Jan 22 2008] [17:00:39] present (but only partly today) [Di Jan 22 2008] [17:00:46] Kevin_Kofler, than, ltinkl: ping [Di Jan 22 2008] [17:00:52] Present. [Di Jan 22 2008] [17:02:14] Topic rdieter setzt das Kanal-Topic auf "KDE SIG Meeting | http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/KDE/Meetings/2008-01-22 | # Preparing for Fedora 9 Alpha". [Di Jan 22 2008] [17:02:23] okie dokie, let's get started slowly then. [Di Jan 22 2008] [17:02:31] topic 1: prep for F9 alpha [Di Jan 22 2008] [17:03:34] I think we're in pretty good shape, in general, anything else here? (in general, we've got a few other more specific related topics coming later). [Di Jan 22 2008] [17:03:53] Just a reminder: F9 alpha has been frozen over the night. [Di Jan 22 2008] [17:04:13] So if we want to get anything else into the alpha, it has to be built ASAP and tagging requested to rel-eng. [Di Jan 22 2008] [17:04:32] Last night's kdepim and kdenetwork builds are already tagged f9-alpha, those went before the cutoff. [Di Jan 22 2008] [17:05:04] As Jessie mentioned in the alpha announcement, only dire things will be tagged at this point, focus is on installability atm. [Di Jan 22 2008] [17:05:25] otherwise, updates can continue into rawhide as usual. [Di Jan 22 2008] [17:05:55] Good point, flooding rel-eng with tagging requests for f9-alpha isn't useful, it only makes sense to request a f9-alpha tag if there's some really big problem. [Di Jan 22 2008] [17:12:21] WB [Di Jan 22 2008] [17:13:36] So can we go on now? [Di Jul 22 2008] [18:02:26] Topic rdieter setzt das Kanal-Topic auf "KDE SIG Meeting -- http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/KDE/Meetings/2008-07-22 -- Init". [Di Jul 22 2008] [18:02:35] kde sig meeting start, who's present today? [Di Jul 22 2008] [18:02:50] * SMParrish here [Di Jul 22 2008] [18:03:04] * lvillani almost present [Di Jul 22 2008] [18:03:12] ping than, svahl, Kevin_Kofler , foo* [Di Jul 22 2008] [18:03:13] present [Di Jul 22 2008] [18:03:26] present [Di Jul 22 2008] [18:03:49] Topic rdieter setzt das Kanal-Topic auf "KDE SIG Meeting -- http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/KDE/Meetings/2008-07-22 -- agenda". [Di Jul 22 2008] [18:03:53] Present. [Di Jul 22 2008] [18:03:55] topic 1: agenda. [Di Jul 22 2008] [18:04:10] https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/KDE/Meetings/2008-07-22 has just one topic to discuss, that's not much. [Di Jul 22 2008] [18:04:13] agenda's pretty light today (in wiki), so any topics to discuss (other than kpackagekit) [Di Jul 22 2008] [18:04:49] I have one: kde-4.1 updates for F-9 status. [Di Jul 22 2008] [18:05:14] actually, kde-4.1 updates in general (including f8) [Di Jul 22 2008] [18:07:06] is it worth doing KDE4.1 update for F8? [Di Jul 22 2008] [18:07:20] than: IMHO yes, and I'm working on it already. [Di Jul 22 2008] [18:07:24] dev platform bits? yes [Di Jul 22 2008] [18:07:35] Of course not the whole desktop! [Di Jul 22 2008] [18:07:42] that includes qt-4.4, which many have been asking for. [Di Jul 22 2008] [18:07:44] Only the stuff which is now at 4.0.5. [Di Jul 22 2008] [18:07:59] ah ok :) [Di Jul 22 2008] [18:08:04] ok, let's move on then. [Di Jul 22 2008] [18:08:13] Topic rdieter setzt das Kanal-Topic auf "KDE SIG Meeting -- http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/KDE/Meetings/2008-07-22 -- KDE 4.1 updates status". [Di Jul 22 2008] [18:08:25] topic: kde-4.1 updates status (since we're discussing it already) [Di Jul 22 2008] [18:09:11] I've got kde-4.0.99 pretty much all built for F-9. [Di Jul 22 2008] [18:09:11] For F8, I have qt4-4.4.0 built (for now without rdieter's WebKit subpackage, I'll build it again with that change). [Di Jul 22 2008] [18:09:20] I'll take care of the rest once Koji is back up. [Di Jul 22 2008] [18:09:49] For sip and PyQt4, I've been waiting for commit permissions on sip, for everything else on final versions of KDE 4.1 and the matching kdesupport. [Di Jul 22 2008] [18:09:51] i'm uploading kde-l10n into CVS [Di Jul 22 2008] [18:09:53] ah, than, did you catch our earlier exchange in #fedora-kde about making a subpkg for qt4's webkit part (~16mb worth). [Di Jul 22 2008] [18:10:28] ok, maybe not that much, but definitely >10 mb [Di Jul 22 2008] [18:11:12] do we want to split it into qt4-webkit? [Di Jul 22 2008] [18:11:20] than: yes, that was the idea. [Di Jul 22 2008] [18:11:23] will this free some space on the live images or would sth. else pull it in? [Di Jul 22 2008] [18:11:29] The problem is that it won't help KDE users unless we can split out the parts of Plasma which use WebKit too (but upstream will hate us for that). [Di Jul 22 2008] [18:11:31] svahl: no [Di Jul 22 2008] [18:11:48] It'll only possibly help qt-only apps. [Di Jul 22 2008] [18:11:58] ok [Di Jul 22 2008] [18:12:22] PyQt4 might need to be split too if we want to help the likes of liveusb-creator. [Di Jul 22 2008] [18:12:34] oh yucky [Di Jul 22 2008] [18:12:44] Or doesn't that have WebKit bindings at all yet? [Di Jul 22 2008] [18:12:55] not sure actually, I don't think so. [Di Jul 22 2008] [18:13:34] apparently yes, includes qtwebkit.py, but it doesn't link against it. ?? [Di Jul 22 2008] [18:13:35] Kevin_Kofler: IMO it doesn't make sense to split it if it doesn't save spaces [Di Jul 22 2008] [18:15:43] another possible advantage to s split, is that it makes it easier to undo it later, if there's a possibility to want or need to migrate back to WebKit-qt [Di Jul 22 2008] [18:16:22] that's all hypothetical, but it does allow additional flexibility. [Di Jul 22 2008] [18:16:54] As far as KDE is concerned, it'd require deep Plasma surgery (including breaking API compatibility) to avoid linking QtWebKit in (and possibly writing a lot of replacement code using KHTML). [Di Jul 22 2008] [18:17:11] Kevin_Kofler: nod, and not really a viable option. ick. [Di Jul 22 2008] [18:17:24] So a split won't save us anything for KDE. [Di Jul 22 2008] [18:17:56] I'd wish they'd just use KHTML instead of forcing us to ship 2 big frameworks doing the exact same thing. :-( [Di Jul 22 2008] [18:18:06] ok, maybe table that idea for now then. [Di Jul 22 2008] [18:18:49] wrt kde-4.1 updates. looks like 4.1 final will be released to packagers real soon. question Kevin_Kofler raised yesterday was : is it (still) worth releasing a 4.0.99-based update or wait? [Di Jul 22 2008] [18:19:25] my biased opinion is yes, gives more opportunity for valuable feedback. [Di Jul 22 2008] [18:19:32] I won't be building any 4.0.99 stuff for F8, I'll go to 4.1.0 directly. [Di Jul 22 2008] [18:19:34] rdieter: +1 [Di Jul 22 2008] [18:19:46] downside, it guarantees will have at least one more big update soonish [Di Jul 22 2008] [18:19:59] But for F9 we already have it built, so I guess we can get it into testing. [Di Jul 22 2008] [18:20:08] agreed always good to have more eyes on it. +1 [Di Jul 22 2008] [18:20:14] +1 here too (or does KDE allow us to release KDE-4.1 before the official release)? [Di Jul 22 2008] [18:20:15] f13: ping, (if you got a sec), from rel-eng perspective, I know this is making you cry already, what's your opinion? [Di Jul 22 2008] [18:20:23] But we should ask testers not to give it karma, any make it clear it should never hit stable. [Di Jul 22 2008] [18:20:51] Kevin_Kofler: I think bodhi is configurable for that now, so we should be able to have tighter control on that. [Di Jul 22 2008] [18:21:03] Has that change hit production yet? [Di Jul 22 2008] [18:21:06] rdieter: please make sure that we don't push it in F9-update! [Di Jul 22 2008] [18:21:15] than: +1, definitely [Di Jul 22 2008] [18:21:39] Kevin_Kofler: not sure. [Di Jul 22 2008] [18:21:59] either way, we'll keep a close eye on it [Di Jul 22 2008] [18:23:05] I just checked, it hasn't. [Di Jul 22 2008] [18:23:23] The production server is still running the same ancient version of Bodhi. [Di Jul 22 2008] [18:23:37] A lot of improvements have been made since, but production hasn't been updated. :-( [Di Jul 22 2008] [18:23:45] bummer, anything else kde-4.1-wise, or move on? [Di Jul 22 2008] [18:24:43] We need to make sure that https://admin.fedoraproject.org/updates/F9/FEDORA-2008-6376 hits stable before KDE 4.1. [Di Jul 22 2008] [18:24:51] (That's the openbabel update.) [Di Jul 22 2008] [18:25:16] I did some testing and gave it a +1, but I wasn't able to test the Kalzium 3D molecule viewer because it doesn't work for me with the old OpenBabel either. [Di Jul 22 2008] [18:25:51] worked for me, last I tried, maybe I can give it karma too [Di Jul 22 2008] [18:26:15] Well, you're running 4.1 already. [Di Jul 22 2008] [18:26:31] I tried it on a stock kde-4.0 box too. :) [Di Jul 22 2008] [18:26:33] What should be tested here is kdeedu-4.0.5-2.fc9, really. [Di Jul 22 2008] [18:26:35] kde-l10n-4.0.98 isn't built yet. [Di Jul 22 2008] [18:26:49] (With the new OpenBabel.) [Di Jul 22 2008] [18:27:07] The point is to verify that the OpenBabel update didn't break it. [Di Jul 22 2008] [18:27:16] than: keep me abrest of kde-l10n status, and I'll add it to the pending kde-4.1 update when ready. [Di Jul 22 2008] [18:27:34] rdieter: ok i will let you know [Di Jul 22 2008] [18:27:37] If we do some more testing, we can get the OpenBabel update up to +3 (without cheating). Otherwise, I can nag Rathann to push it manually, but I'm not feeling too good about rushing things. [Di Jul 22 2008] [18:27:59] 4.1 is going to be awhile before going stable, so I'm not too worried. [Di Jul 22 2008] [18:28:26] It's also possible that Bodhi will think the update is "obsolete" because you're about to push a newer kdeedu to testing. [Di Jul 22 2008] [18:28:37] That problem can be fun too. [Di Jul 22 2008] [18:29:09] fwiw, this is what I have so far wrt kde-4.1 pending update: http://tinyurl.com/653u9l [Di Jul 22 2008] [18:29:51] still a lot missing obviously [Di Jul 22 2008] [18:30:02] will fill it in now that things seem to be back up and running. [Di Jul 22 2008] [18:31:13] akonadi is missing, kde-i18n is missing (the updated build of the KDE 3 kde-i18n which fixes some new conflicts with kde-l10n, I think it's not built for F9 yet), and many kde* modules are. [Di Jul 22 2008] [18:31:28] here are our current list of kde41 blockers: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/showdependencytree.cgi?id=446427&hide_resolved=1 [Di Jul 22 2008] [18:32:22] Kevin_Kofler: nod, I'll update it after meeting, and give y'all a chance to look it over again. [Di Jul 22 2008] [18:32:47] We also need a rebuild of compiz. [Di Jul 22 2008] [18:32:52] It has open ACLs. [Di Jul 22 2008] [18:33:06] It should be as simple as dropping the revert-plasma-api patch and rebuilding. [Di Jul 22 2008] [18:33:43] (Compiz has already been upgraded to an upstream version supporting 4.1, it had to be patched to build against 4.0.) [Di Jul 22 2008] [18:34:31] I see this as a potential big problem: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=453331 [Di Jul 22 2008] [18:35:29] I'd suggest putting printer-applet into a subpackage. It won't really fix this, but it'll make it less of a problem because people won't get it added by an update. [Di Jul 22 2008] [18:35:38] It'll also avoid having all of kdeutils depend on PyKDE4. [Di Jul 22 2008] [18:36:01] Kevin_Kofler: or fix system-config-printer [Di Jul 22 2008] [18:36:47] Fix how? A split alone won't fix it because the upgrade won't remove the GTK+ applet. [Di Jul 22 2008] [18:36:57] (even if it's not a dependency) [Di Jul 22 2008] [18:37:11] iet's do both, split, and work with system-config-printer for accomodations in the meantime. [Di Jul 22 2008] [18:37:12] They'd have to add a NotShowIn=KDE; [Di Jul 22 2008] [18:37:33] Kevin_Kofler: yeah. add NotShowIn=KDE [Di Jul 22 2008] [18:38:03] I'd rather avoid that, if possible. makes using the default/gtk system-config-printer impossible [Di Jul 22 2008] [18:38:04] system-config-printer should also have a system-config-printer-common split out with only the stuff the KDE printer-applet needs. [Di Jul 22 2008] [18:38:12] Ubuntu already has it packaged like that. [Di Jul 22 2008] [18:38:16] has someone asked Tim to add this in system-config-printer? [Di Jul 22 2008] [18:38:43] than: afaik, not yet. all talk, no do so far. :( who wants the job/task? [Di Jul 22 2008] [18:39:02] i will ask him [Di Jul 22 2008] [18:39:39] I'll work on a kdeutils subpkg. any suggestions on pkg naming here? [Di Jul 22 2008] [18:40:11] kdeutils-printer-applet ? [Di Jul 22 2008] [18:40:34] rdieter: +1 [Di Jul 22 2008] [18:40:42] Fine with me too. [Di Jul 22 2008] [18:40:46] +1 [Di Jul 22 2008] [18:40:48] +1 [Di Jul 22 2008] [18:42:01] ok, let's move on to our next topic [Di Jul 22 2008] [18:42:13] Topic rdieter setzt das Kanal-Topic auf "KDE SIG Meeting -- http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/KDE/Meetings/2008-07-22 -- kpackage review". [Di Jul 22 2008] [18:42:17] topic: kpackage review [Di Jul 22 2008] [18:42:46] kpackagekit that is [Di Jul 22 2008] [18:42:56] Topic rdieter setzt das Kanal-Topic auf "KDE SIG Meeting -- http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/KDE/Meetings/2008-07-22 -- kpackagekit review, https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=455700". [Di Jul 22 2008] [18:42:59] https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=455700 [Di Jul 22 2008] [18:43:20] just an fyi mostly, looks like we'll be able to merge packagekit-qt and kpackagekit into 1. [Di Jul 22 2008] [18:43:41] SMParrish: any other comments/updates to share? [Di Jul 22 2008] [18:44:06] FYI, Koji appears to be back up now. [Di Jul 22 2008] [18:44:07] Been using it for a week on my rawhide box. What works Add/Remove. search and update discovery. What is missing is systray notification and the ability to actually do an update [Di Jul 22 2008] [18:44:50] Talked to the devs they said those last 2 pieces should be ready for the f10 beta freeze on 8/22 [Di Jul 22 2008] [18:45:05] tech-preview quality atm, I'm ok with that. [Di Jul 22 2008] [18:45:33] I'd say it's OK for Rawhide now, but definitely not as the default on the F10 Alpha live image. [Di Jul 22 2008] [18:45:48] I've got this wiki page up and will keep it updated https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/KDE/kpackagekit [Di Jul 22 2008] [18:45:51] nod [Di Jul 22 2008] [18:45:55] (Need at the very least working updates for that.) [Di Jul 22 2008] [18:46:21] SMParrish: thx [Di Jul 22 2008] [18:46:29] Topic rdieter setzt das Kanal-Topic auf "KDE SIG Meeting -- http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/KDE/Meetings/2008-07-22 -- open discussion". [Di Jul 22 2008] [18:46:34] When it is ready though we will have to deal with the kpackagekit vs gnome-packagekit issues. dont want them both running [Di Jul 22 2008] [18:47:43] open discussion, anything else for today? [Di Jul 22 2008] [18:48:27] I have one more thing about the KDE 4.1 update: I hacked kjots from kdepim 4.1 into kdeutils for the F9 upgrade. It was part of kdeutils in 4.0. [Di Jul 22 2008] [18:48:40] It was moved to kdepim for integration into Kontact. [Di Jul 22 2008] [18:48:47] But we don't have kdepim 4 or Kontact 4 in F9. [Di Jul 22 2008] [18:49:03] So it's now built with kdeutils and with Kontact integration patched out. [Di Jul 22 2008] [18:50:01] A FYI: I've removed kftpgrabber, filelight and pavucontrol from the live images since PyKDE4/PyQt4 are pulled in. http://fedoraproject.org/w/index.php?title=SebastianVahl/CurrentPackageList&oldid=40942 [Di Jul 22 2008] [18:50:22] (That should guarantee a proper upgrade path for kjots users.) [Di Jul 22 2008] [18:50:26] I could upload a pre-alpha test image if someone offers some webspace (my admin is at holidays) [Di Jul 22 2008] [18:50:30] Of course it will be shipped in kdepim from F10 on. [Di Jul 22 2008] [18:51:21] ah, speacking of space issues, I had a few ideas to explore there. kdebase-workspace-wallpapers was one : ~10mb , oxygen-cursor-themes (or something like that) [Di Jul 22 2008] [18:51:37] svahl: fedorapeople.org ? [Di Jul 22 2008] [18:51:53] AFAIK the limit is at about 200 megs? [Di Jul 22 2008] [18:51:59] oh, didn't know that. [Di Jul 22 2008] [18:52:16] Oh, another FYI: http://cvs.fedoraproject.org/viewcvs/rpms/kdebase-workspace/devel/kdebase-workspace-4.0.99-plasma-tooltips.patch?rev=1.1&view=markup [Di Jul 22 2008] [18:52:38] kdebase-workspace-4.0.99-2 has the tooltip functionality darktears recently wrote (but too late for upstream 4.1). [Di Jul 22 2008] [18:52:46] Tooltips were supported in 4.0. [Di Jul 22 2008] [18:52:51] Then lost in the Plasma reorganization. [Di Jul 22 2008] [18:53:04] And a lot of TODOs/FIXMEs left in applets which used the old 4.0 tooltips. [Di Jul 22 2008] [18:53:18] This implements them again and sorts out those TODOs/FIXMEs. [Di Jul 22 2008] [18:53:30] rdieter: what do you mean with "kdebase-workspace-wallpapers" and "oxygen-cursor-themes"? A split out from current kdebase-workspace? [Di Jul 22 2008] [18:53:36] yes [Di Jul 22 2008] [18:53:41] Has anybody tested this (Plasma tooltips) yet if it's stable enough? [Di Jul 22 2008] [18:53:56] Kevin_Kofler: how to test? [Di Jul 22 2008] [18:54:21] Mouse over something with a tooltip, e.g. taskbar items, digital clock etc. [Di Jul 22 2008] [18:54:36] which build did that go in? [Di Jul 22 2008] [18:54:41] A tooltip should show up and of course it should not crash, look like crap, leave junk pixels on the screen, ... ;-) [Di Jul 22 2008] [18:54:48] kdebase-workspace-4.0.99-2 [Di Jul 22 2008] [18:54:49] rdieter: IMHO it's worth for *-wallpapers. Unsure about cursor-themes [Di Jul 22 2008] [18:55:15] ok, i'm still only 4.0.99-1 here, I'll try it after meeting [Di Jul 22 2008] [18:56:42] svahl: Oxygen cursor themes add up to about ~24mb [Di Jul 22 2008] [18:57:07] ah, ok. then that's worth it, too [Di Jul 22 2008] [18:57:23] WTF, 24 MB of cursor themes? :-( [Di Jul 22 2008] [18:57:48] 5 different themes, in regular/large variants each [Di Jul 22 2008] [18:58:46] I'm using Oxygen_White atm, quite nice. [Di Jul 22 2008] [19:00:00] * dgilmore remebers to go file bugs @kde [Di Jul 22 2008] [19:00:29] any opinions on pkg name? kdebase-runtime-cursors, oxygen-icon-theme-cursors, oxygen-cursor-theme ? [Di Jul 22 2008] [19:00:32] svahl: quota is 150mb but you can ask for more [Di Jul 22 2008] [19:00:49] rdieter: oxygen-cursor-theme [Di Jul 22 2008] [19:01:16] dgilmore: thanks [Di Jul 22 2008] [19:01:29] rdieter: maybe oxygen-cursor-themes? [Di Jul 22 2008] [19:02:07] maybe so, it is a collection of themes afterall. [Di Jul 22 2008] [19:02:55] well, time's up for today, let's end the meeting, head back to #fedora-kde [Di Jul 22 2008] [19:03:12] end meeting [Di Jul 22 2008] [19:03:25] Topic rdieter setzt das Kanal-Topic auf "Channel is used by various Fedora groups and committees for their regular meetings | Note that meetings often get logged | For questions about using Fedora please ask in #fedora | See http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/FedoraMeetingChannel for meeting schedule".