[Di Jun 12 2007] [18:02:32] is anyone present for kde sig meeting? [Di Jun 12 2007] [18:02:45] I'm here. [Di Jun 12 2007] [18:02:51] I'm here. hi [Di Jun 12 2007] [18:03:00] Hi Kevin, svahl [Di Jun 12 2007] [18:03:46] rdieter: are you here? [Di Jun 12 2007] [18:05:17] Kevin_Kofler: i will commit the fix into cvs later today [Di Jun 12 2007] [18:06:25] Kevin_Kofler: so i hope david will push this in f7 update soon [Di Jun 12 2007] [18:06:33] Thanks. [Di Jun 12 2007] [18:06:59] Kevin_Kofler: thanks your good work [Di Jun 12 2007] [18:07:19] I'd like to ask if I could be added to the pkg.acl for the kde* packages (or the pkg.acl files be "cvs rm"ed altogether as has been done for some other packages) so I can help with the KDE 4 packaging for F8. [Di Jun 12 2007] [18:09:08] here (on the phone atm) [Di Jun 12 2007] [18:09:42] Kevin_Kofler: it's ok with me, we could add you into pkg.acl [Di Jun 12 2007] [18:10:02] ok, here for real now. [Di Jun 12 2007] [18:10:19] adding Kevin to pkg.acl: +1 from me too [Di Jun 12 2007] [18:10:53] Here's some KDE 4 stuff I've done already: [Di Jun 12 2007] [18:10:54] http://www.kde-look.org/content/show.php/Quarticurve?content=59884 [Di Jun 12 2007] [18:10:58] http://www.kde-look.org/content/show.php/Quarticurve-KWin+(for+KDE+3.90.1)?content=59972 [Di Jun 12 2007] [18:11:04] Kevin_Kofler: but we should carefull when we commit the changes into CVD [Di Jun 12 2007] [18:11:09] s/CVD/CVS [Di Jun 12 2007] [18:11:23] Understood. [Di Jun 12 2007] [18:11:50] About Quarticurve: The widget theme only needs Qt 4 and I'll submit it for review any time soon. The KWin theme needs KDE 4 to build, so kdebase 4 needs to get in first. [Di Jun 12 2007] [18:12:34] Kevin_Kofler: it looks great :D [Di Jun 12 2007] [18:12:50] nice [Di Jun 12 2007] [18:13:04] we will include KDE4 in F8 [Di Jun 12 2007] [18:13:45] other topics I'd like to hit today: [Di Jun 12 2007] [18:13:50] and try to get KDE4 beta in F8 test1 [Di Jun 12 2007] [18:13:58] Kevin_Kofler: looks nice [Di Jun 12 2007] [18:14:18] 1. delegate jobs/authority, so we can all work and make progress, without stepping on each others' toes. [Di Jun 12 2007] [18:14:23] Of course, I'm not asking for Quarticurve to become the default theme, I think some people out there would kill us for going back to the Bluecurve look by default. ;-) [Di Jun 12 2007] [18:14:43] 2. triage incoming bugs, plan of attack. [Di Jun 12 2007] [18:15:02] 3. flesh out kde4 plan [Di Jun 12 2007] [18:15:14] any other topics? [Di Jun 12 2007] [18:16:47] so we can start with topic 1 [Di Jun 12 2007] [18:22:46] Uhm, nothing to say about that topic? rdieter? Or let's move to the next one? [Di Jun 12 2007] [18:24:07] afk (more phone) [Di Jun 12 2007] [18:25:29] we will do 1 phone call meeting a month [Di Jun 12 2007] [18:25:49] i think Florian Laroche will arange it [Di Jun 12 2007] [18:26:07] ok, back, ugh. [Di Jun 12 2007] [18:26:51] than: thanks, I think Kevin, Sebastian are ok with joining in on the phone call (yes?) [Di Jun 12 2007] [18:27:09] Yes. [Di Jun 12 2007] [18:27:13] yes [Di Jun 12 2007] [18:28:32] sure, both are welcome here ;-) [Di Jun 12 2007] [18:29:49] if we take a look at bugzilla, there're many bugs which need to be cleanup [Di Jun 12 2007] [18:30:37] afk again. [Di Jun 12 2007] [18:31:40] it would be great if everyone could take a look at these and try to fix as you can [Di Jun 12 2007] [18:32:10] I wonder how many of those bugs will be fixed by KDE 4 anyway. [Di Jun 12 2007] [18:32:39] Kevin_Kofler: it's good question :D [Di Jun 12 2007] [18:32:43] is there a "quick link" to the bug list? [Di Jun 12 2007] [18:33:51] the most bugs are in kdebase/kdelibs. you can select the components in bugzilla [Di Jun 12 2007] [18:34:07] and you will get the list [Di Jun 12 2007] [18:34:09] ok [Di Jun 12 2007] [18:34:32] svahl: thanks [Di Jun 12 2007] [18:35:18] Kevin_Kofler: you have already packaged kde4 don't you? [Di Jun 12 2007] [18:35:33] than: what have I done? :) [Di Jun 12 2007] [18:35:42] Kevin_Kofler: where i can get the your srpm? [Di Jun 12 2007] [18:35:54] I have only the 3 core components (kdelibs, kdepimlibs, kdebase). [Di Jun 12 2007] [18:36:12] And I packaged them with a special prefix for parallel-installability, a hack which should not be needed in F8. [Di Jun 12 2007] [18:36:14] ok, locked my door (no more interruptions... ) :) [Di Jun 12 2007] [18:36:33] you means with prefix /opt/kde4? [Di Jun 12 2007] [18:36:39] Right. [Di Jun 12 2007] [18:36:52] oh it's bad [Di Jun 12 2007] [18:37:03] I know it's bad and it needs to go. [Di Jun 12 2007] [18:37:20] But getting that out is easier than getting it in anyway. [Di Jun 12 2007] [18:37:24] :-) [Di Jun 12 2007] [18:37:29] Kevin_Kofler: I've tried to package kde 3.90.1 in the normal prefix (based upon your srpms) it's building but the specs must really must be cleaned up [Di Jun 12 2007] [18:37:32] i will install kde3 in /usr [Di Jun 12 2007] [18:37:34] Zap the big parallel-installability patch. [Di Jun 12 2007] [18:37:34] seems to me we first need to tackle the making of compat-kde3 pkgs first. [Di Jun 12 2007] [18:37:37] s/kde3/kde4 [Di Jun 12 2007] [18:37:56] Yes, this is the important thing to do. [Di Jun 12 2007] [18:38:12] Then, making kde4 pkgs prefixed in /usr that don't conflict. [Di Jun 12 2007] [18:38:17] rdieter: yes kde3 compat is needed at the same time [Di Jun 12 2007] [18:38:19] Moving the KDE 4 packages to /usr is the easy part, making KDE 3 compat packages which don't conflict with them is the hard part. [Di Jun 12 2007] [18:38:20] yes, it's very important. we have to privode the kde3 compat libs [Di Jun 12 2007] [18:38:34] to allow old kde4 running [Di Jun 12 2007] [18:38:42] who want's to own the compat-kde3 task? [Di Jun 12 2007] [18:38:50] My KDE 4 SRPMs are up here: http://apt.kde-redhat.org/apt/kde-redhat/all/SRPMS.unstable/ [Di Jun 12 2007] [18:39:19] than, Kevin? [Di Jun 12 2007] [18:39:38] (I could try, but I'm not sure which parts to keep which to omit myself) [Di Jun 12 2007] [18:39:39] i will take care of the compat-kde3 [Di Jun 12 2007] [18:39:59] I can work on fixing prefixing issues in existing kde4 pkgs. [Di Jun 12 2007] [18:40:19] Here's the plan which may need updating: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/FeatureKDE4 [Di Jun 12 2007] [18:40:56] it's nice if someone could update the wiki pages there [Di Jun 12 2007] [18:40:58] One thing I didn't mention in the plan: We'll probably have to keep aRts around, as much as it sucks, there are certainly KDE 3 apps out there needing it. At least that one will not need special compat handling as it doesn't have a KDE 4 version at all. [Di Jun 12 2007] [18:41:27] right, arts needs to be bundled with compat-kde3 stuff. [Di Jun 12 2007] [18:41:40] Kevin_Kofler: does arts conflict with the new sound backend in KDE4? [Di Jun 12 2007] [18:41:54] unless we want to try rebuilding everything --without-arts (ick) [Di Jun 12 2007] [18:42:04] than: it shouldn't. [Di Jun 12 2007] [18:42:14] arts could likely stay as-is. [Di Jun 12 2007] [18:42:37] but i prefer build kde3 compat libs without support arts [Di Jun 12 2007] [18:42:55] than: if you can make that work reasonably, great. [Di Jun 12 2007] [18:43:23] than: so legacy kde3 apps would have no sound? [Di Jun 12 2007] [18:43:28] The only thing aRts may cause conflicts on is sound devices. [Di Jun 12 2007] [18:43:36] i think, we need kdelibs3/kdebase3 as compat libbrary [Di Jun 12 2007] [18:43:53] Kevin_Kofler: yes it's what i mean ;-) [Di Jun 12 2007] [18:44:26] But this shouldn't be a problem with hardware mixing or dmix, and if FeaturePulseAudio goes in, it won't be a problem either, because aRts can talk to ESD and PulseAudio can emulate ESD. [Di Jun 12 2007] [18:44:31] i don't think we really need kdepim compat lib [Di Jun 12 2007] [18:45:03] So we'd just have to set aRts to speak the ESD protocol and it will work with PulseAudio. [Di Jun 12 2007] [18:45:17] If they stay with dmix, we don't have to set anything at all, it handles mixing transparently. [Di Jun 12 2007] [18:45:20] s/wiil/should/ :) [Di Jun 12 2007] [18:45:57] It's true that I haven't done any testing, so I shouldn't be that positive. ;-) [Di Jun 12 2007] [18:46:10] anything else kde4-wise for now? [Di Jun 12 2007] [18:46:14] I could try it out with the pulseaudio packages currently out there though. [Di Jun 12 2007] [18:46:37] rdieter: which apps need the kdepim libs? [Di Jun 12 2007] [18:46:47] than: none that I'm ware of. [Di Jun 12 2007] [18:46:57] Then let's just not compat-package those. :-) [Di Jun 12 2007] [18:47:33] Kevin_Kofler: yes, i only need kdelibs3 and kdebase3 [Di Jun 12 2007] [18:47:41] s/i/we [Di Jun 12 2007] [18:47:45] maybe we could run a repoquery or 2 to find out for sure. [Di Jun 12 2007] [18:48:09] it's all what are needed to allow running of old kde3 apps [Di Jun 12 2007] [18:48:13] Speaking of Phonon directly speaking to PulseAudio, I think there's no way this will ever get implemented, for a simple reason: PulseAudio is only a sound server, it tries to be better at that than the older ones, but it's still nothing more (unlike aRts which tried to do decoding in the sound server). [Di Jun 12 2007] [18:48:23] Phonon needs something which also handles decoding and video. [Di Jun 12 2007] [18:48:43] So it can use Xine, GStreamer or NMM (but only Xine really works right now AFAIK). [Di Jun 12 2007] [18:48:57] And those can then talk to PulseAudio or whatever after they decoded. [Di Jun 12 2007] [18:49:25] (NMM is also a sound server type solution, but the other 2 can talk to any sound server.) [Di Jun 12 2007] [18:49:25] looks like we'll have to tackle that later, after phonon gets shaken out a bit. [Di Jun 12 2007] [18:50:35] can we move on? [Di Jun 12 2007] [18:51:28] I'll take that as a yes... :) [Di Jun 12 2007] [18:51:40] than: kde-3.5.7 status? kdepim builds? [Di Jun 12 2007] [18:51:58] and where can I/we help? [Di Jun 12 2007] [18:52:13] i'm still working on KDE-3.5.7 update for FC6/F7 [Di Jun 12 2007] [18:52:43] I quick-n-dirty updated stuff that was still at 3.5.6 to 3.5.7 yesterday. [Di Jun 12 2007] [18:52:52] ATM it's not possible to debug the build problem because i cannot access to ppc(64)machine [Di Jun 12 2007] [18:52:55] not much testing (tho I have stuff building in mock atm). [Di Jun 12 2007] [18:53:10] Will this include KDevelop 3.4.1? We're still stuck at 3.3.6 which is pretty bad as 3.4.0 has been out for a while. [Di Jun 12 2007] [18:53:14] than: I'd say add ExcludeArch: ppc64, and file bug for now [Di Jun 12 2007] [18:53:23] kdevelop-3.4.1, yes. [Di Jun 12 2007] [18:53:35] And 3.4.x has support for stuff like Qt 4 and CMake. [Di Jun 12 2007] [18:53:48] At least Qt 4, not sure about CMake. [Di Jun 12 2007] [18:53:50] rdieter: we should avoid excludearch [Di Jun 12 2007] [18:54:05] than: what alternative do we have? [Di Jun 12 2007] [18:54:06] i hope to get access to ppc machine tomorrow [Di Jun 12 2007] [18:54:12] so i can debug the problem [Di Jun 12 2007] [18:54:37] If you can fix it, great, otherwise ExcludeArch, file a bug and let David Woodhouse fix it. ;-) [Di Jun 12 2007] [18:54:47] The PPC arch team is pretty much just him AFAICT. ;-) [Di Jun 12 2007] [18:54:48] Kevin_Kofler: +1 [Di Jun 12 2007] [18:55:51] than: let David have a look at it, he's a ppc superman with a capital S. [Di Jun 12 2007] [18:55:54] i know, just give a chance ;-) [Di Jun 12 2007] [18:56:19] we have a ppc machine here in stuttgart office [Di Jun 12 2007] [18:56:35] than: we've had 2+ weeks chance, and kde-3.5.7 is still waiting (mind you kdepim-3.5.6 builds failed similarly too). [Di Jun 12 2007] [18:56:49] but, ok, give it a shot, if you want. [Di Jun 12 2007] [18:57:13] I think it silly to block on a platform/arch (ppc64) that nobody is using. [Di Jun 12 2007] [18:57:43] i will try till thursday, if it's still have the build problem, i will exclude ppc [Di Jun 12 2007] [18:57:58] maybe even --disable-final may help (kdepim builds + --enable-final use lots of VM) [Di Jun 12 2007] [18:58:08] than: +1, good. [Di Jun 12 2007] [18:58:38] ppc64, you mean? [Di Jun 12 2007] [18:58:50] it's important that i get a access to the machice [Di Jun 12 2007] [18:59:04] Kevin_Kofler: yes, i think so [Di Jun 12 2007] [19:00:11] did you guys hit the bugzilla/triaging topic yet (while I was on the phone)? [Di Jun 12 2007] [19:00:30] any plan, other than "just do it"? [Di Jun 12 2007] [19:01:28] rdieter: the most bugs are in kdelibs/kdebase, just select the components from bugzilla, get the list and try to fix what you can [Di Jun 12 2007] [19:01:33] Hi all [Di Jun 12 2007] [19:01:37] hi [Di Jun 12 2007] [19:01:41] hi [Di Jun 12 2007] [19:01:42] than: ok. [Di Jun 12 2007] [19:01:43] hi [Di Jun 12 2007] [19:01:46] * spot shakes his broom at the kde folks [Di Jun 12 2007] [19:01:53] get offa my lawn! [Di Jun 12 2007] [19:02:15] oh, forgot, ok, I guess we need to finish up. Thanks Than, Kevin, Sebastian (+ everyone I forgot). :)