[Di Sep 16 2008] [18:01:09] KDE SIG Meeting start, who's present today? [Di Sep 16 2008] [18:01:18] Topic rdieter setzt das Kanal-Topic auf "KDE SIG Meeting -- http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/KDE/Meetings/2008-09-16 --Init". [Di Sep 16 2008] [18:01:33] present [Di Sep 16 2008] [18:01:36] present [Di Sep 16 2008] [18:01:44] here [Di Sep 16 2008] [18:01:56] Kevin_Kofler, than, ltinkl, kdefoo*: ping [Di Sep 16 2008] [18:02:03] present [Di Sep 16 2008] [18:02:06] * ltinkl is here [Di Sep 16 2008] [18:02:08] Present [Di Sep 16 2008] [18:02:46] nice, let's the get started, topc: any interest in picking up Features/OpenChange (for F11, it won't make F10)? [Di Sep 16 2008] [18:02:51] Topic rdieter setzt das Kanal-Topic auf "KDE SIG Meeting -- http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/KDE/Meetings/2008-09-16 --any interest in picking up Features/OpenChange (for F11, it won't make F10)?". [Di Sep 16 2008] [18:03:19] * lvillani present (phew) [Di Sep 16 2008] [18:03:37] https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/OpenChange [Di Sep 16 2008] [18:03:38] shrug, all *we* really care about is libmapi, we could probably pick up the (co)maintainance, at least in the short term. [Di Sep 16 2008] [18:04:02] Well, the libmapi depends on the other stuff in the Samba4/OpenChange stack. [Di Sep 16 2008] [18:04:53] What's clear is that this feature won't be ready for F10, well it might be possible to rush the reviews in, but it won't be user-visible before kdepim 4.1. [Di Sep 16 2008] [18:04:55] rats, I forgot. [Di Sep 16 2008] [18:05:08] Before 4.2, I mean. [Di Sep 16 2008] [18:05:16] OpenChange is unsupported in 4.1, the code is there, but it doesn't compile. [Di Sep 16 2008] [18:05:22] It's unfinished. [Di Sep 16 2008] [18:05:35] ah, no rush then, as long as we can help move this along for the 4.2 timeframe. [Di Sep 16 2008] [18:06:32] unfortunately, it seems abartlet may not be interested in helping much before F11 [Di Sep 16 2008] [18:08:05] any other comments here? move on? [Di Sep 16 2008] [18:09:25] move on [Di Sep 16 2008] [18:09:29] ok, next topic: Release notes for KDE (needed for Beta? Final?) [Di Sep 16 2008] [18:09:37] Topic rdieter setzt das Kanal-Topic auf "KDE SIG Meeting -- http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/KDE/Meetings/2008-09-16 -- Release notes for KDE (needed for Beta? Final?)". [Di Sep 16 2008] [18:09:48] Well, the feature page for OpenChange still needs an owner though! [Di Sep 16 2008] [18:10:19] Or should I just mark it as owned by KDE SIG? [Di Sep 16 2008] [18:10:26] What about an [Di Sep 16 2008] [18:10:27] eepc Enlightenment spin? Eeeedora? ;) [Di Sep 16 2008] [18:10:32] woops, mispaste [Di Sep 16 2008] [18:10:34] sorry [Di Sep 16 2008] [18:10:40] :) [Di Sep 16 2008] [18:10:48] Or coowned by KDE SIG? [Di Sep 16 2008] [18:10:52] looks like we'll need at least one sucker^H^H^H errr, volunteer to whip KDE-related docs into shape. [Di Sep 16 2008] [18:11:43] a dirty unglamorous job, maybe something that might be good for someone @redhat to work on (hint hint... ) :) [Di Sep 16 2008] [18:12:09] how about that guy doing screencasts [Di Sep 16 2008] [18:12:16] For the release notes, we'll want at least the contents from the https://admin.fedoraproject.org/updates/F9/FEDORA-2008-6743 update notes (except the 2 notes, as kdepim 4.1 will be included in F10 and the phonon-backend-xine stuff should only affect former F9 updates-testing users). [Di Sep 16 2008] [18:12:25] Kushal? [Di Sep 16 2008] [18:12:38] And we should also list the obsoleted packages and what KDE 4.1 module obsoletes each of them. [Di Sep 16 2008] [18:12:45] lvillani: kushal is him [Di Sep 16 2008] [18:12:54] jreznik: it's great if you could look at Release notes for KDE [Di Sep 16 2008] [18:13:18] or ltinkl? [Di Sep 16 2008] [18:13:44] than: ok [Di Sep 16 2008] [18:13:55] jreznik: great, thanks :) [Di Sep 16 2008] [18:14:16] jreznik: many thanks, your fedora-merit badge is in the mail. [Di Sep 16 2008] [18:14:26] >] [Di Sep 16 2008] [18:14:33] See the notes I wrote up for 4.0.0 in F9 for how the list of obsoleted packages could look like. :-) [Di Sep 16 2008] [18:14:53] Of course, if you can present it better while delivering the same kind of information, that's even better. :-) [Di Sep 16 2008] [18:15:07] Kevin_Kofler: ok, I'll take a look tomorrow [Di Sep 16 2008] [18:15:12] I'll double-check the exact list of obsoletions so we don't miss one. [Di Sep 16 2008] [18:16:15] alrighty, next topic: Status of KDE 4.1.1 in F9/updates-testing (FEDORA-2008-7789) [Di Sep 16 2008] [18:16:21] Topic rdieter setzt das Kanal-Topic auf "KDE SIG Meeting -- http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/KDE/Meetings/2008-09-16 -- Status of KDE 4.1.1 in F9/updates-testing (FEDORA-2008-7789)". [Di Sep 16 2008] [18:16:24] I see at least: okteta -> kdeutils, dragonplayer -> kdemultimedia, kaider -> kdesdk (renamed to Lokalize), ksirk -> kdegames, extragear-plasma renamed to kdeplasma-addons. [Di Sep 16 2008] [18:16:43] https://admin.fedoraproject.org/updates/F9/FEDORA-2008-7789 [Di Sep 16 2008] [18:17:01] Well, the one real problem is the Konqueror regression I've put up for "recent bugs". [Di Sep 16 2008] [18:17:08] I don't think there are any other blockers. [Di Sep 16 2008] [18:17:27] from reading the upstream report, that only occurs if you have the javascript console enabled (or not?) [Di Sep 16 2008] [18:17:49] i don't see any blockers here, IMO we should push 4.1.1 in F9 this friday [Di Sep 16 2008] [18:17:51] It occurs at least if you have JavaScript enabled, which 99% of the users have. [Di Sep 16 2008] [18:18:03] crap, apparently not, I see 4 konq processes on my laptop [Di Sep 16 2008] [18:18:17] than: We need the regression fixed now. [Di Sep 16 2008] [18:18:19] the konquerror bug could be fixed later [Di Sep 16 2008] [18:18:19] last comment says it happens even when js is disabled [Di Sep 16 2008] [18:18:29] It should be fixed first. [Di Sep 16 2008] [18:18:41] It's more annoying than anything 4.1.1 fixes. [Di Sep 16 2008] [18:18:43] oh, it's a mistake by the author :) [Di Sep 16 2008] [18:18:43] https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=461725 [Di Sep 16 2008] [18:18:44] nod, any fixes/patches looming? if nothing is coming soon, blocking indefinitely is undesirable [Di Sep 16 2008] [18:18:45] Bug 461725: medium, medium, ---, than@redhat.com, ASSIGNED, Konqueror does not finish its procces on exit (KDE 4.1.1) [Di Sep 16 2008] [18:19:01] (comment #43 and #44) [Di Sep 16 2008] [18:19:07] Topic Kevin_Kofler setzt das Kanal-Topic auf "KDE SIG Meeting -- http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/KDE/Meetings/2008-09-16 -- https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=461725 Konqueror does not finish ...". [Di Sep 16 2008] [18:19:31] There's some speculation it's caused by the fix for the JavaScript console problem. [Di Sep 16 2008] [18:19:40] Instead of fixing that, they made the problem worse. [Di Sep 16 2008] [18:19:47] So we should try reverting that patch and see what happens. [Di Sep 16 2008] [18:20:14] I am willing to do some testing here [Di Sep 16 2008] [18:20:20] Kevin_Kofler: I'm ok with testing out the reversion, and if it helps, use that in the short-term. [Di Sep 16 2008] [18:20:21] I.e. the patch for http://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=169881 is claimed to be the offender. [Di Sep 16 2008] [18:20:23] Bug 169881: is not accessible. [Di Sep 16 2008] [18:21:30] so we'll need to make a 'reverse-patch'? [Di Sep 16 2008] [18:21:56] anyone with time/interest to lead fixing 461725? [Di Sep 16 2008] [18:22:25] I can tonight/tomorrow if no one beats me to it first. [Di Sep 16 2008] [18:22:55] * lvillani has very limited time these days [Di Sep 16 2008] [18:23:02] otherwise, if we can get this blocker out of the way, any objections to fast-tracking 4.1.1 to stable updates? [Di Sep 16 2008] [18:23:17] No, that's the only blocker I know of. [Di Sep 16 2008] [18:24:20] 4.1.1 looks OK for me with more than 40 konquerors running :) [Di Sep 16 2008] [18:24:31] excellent. looks like we've run out of agenda then, anything left to discuss today? [Di Sep 16 2008] [18:24:39] Topic rdieter setzt das Kanal-Topic auf "KDE SIG Meeting -- http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/KDE/Meetings/2008-09-16 -- Open Discussion". [Di Sep 16 2008] [18:24:56] those processes dont waste any extra memory as konq is preloaded anyway [Di Sep 16 2008] [18:25:10] it just looks strange :] [Di Sep 16 2008] [18:26:08] A FYI: with ksirk obsoleted by KDE 4.1, the only thing still using kdegames3-devel is kdeaddons-atlantikdesigner. I think this can probably build without the KDE 3 libkdegames.so devel symlink (it currently links -lkdegames, but I think it only really needs -latlantikui), so I'll be trying to get rid of libkdegames.so from kdegames3-devel. [Di Sep 16 2008] [18:26:09] Re FUDConBrno, was there any video taken (I'm mostly interested in the KDE presentation)? Either way, can someone blog about it? [Di Sep 16 2008] [18:26:20] The advantage would be that we could drop the parallel-devel hacks from kdegames. [Di Sep 16 2008] [18:26:31] Kevin_Kofler: neat [Di Sep 16 2008] [18:26:37] rdieter: video was taken [Di Sep 16 2008] [18:26:39] I'll keep you up to date if I get it working. [Di Sep 16 2008] [18:27:08] jreznik: by who? any idea when/if that'll get posted or be avaialble for viewing? [Di Sep 16 2008] [18:27:19] rdieter: by rvokal [Di Sep 16 2008] [18:27:49] I can ask him to publish it ASAP ;) [Di Sep 16 2008] [18:28:04] jreznik: nice [Di Sep 16 2008] [18:28:29] I'm packaging 4.2 snapshot (4.1.66) on my own, I know it's too early to get it in rawhide but I hope that this helps (plus that I need 4.1.6x releases for personal needs so I'm not wasting my time) [Di Sep 16 2008] [18:28:33] *snapshots [Di Sep 16 2008] [18:29:15] and another topic from FUDCon - is there some guide to new KDE features? people were asking about panel resizing, theming and so on [Di Sep 16 2008] [18:29:36] when the complete collection is ready I will publish the tree somewhere so that rdieter, Kevin_Kofler or others may review the specfiles (slighly changed, though) [Di Sep 16 2008] [18:29:53] jreznik: Well, the desktop user guide still talks about F8 and KDE 3. :-/ [Di Sep 16 2008] [18:29:56] jreznik: We'll need a volunteer for the Desktop Guide, too [Di Sep 16 2008] [18:30:08] Our Fedora documentation is horribly out of date when it comes to KDE. [Di Sep 16 2008] [18:31:43] wiki needs some work, it's quite outdated [Di Sep 16 2008] [18:33:08] * Bouska1 thinks that he will have quite some new translations soon [Di Sep 16 2008] [18:35:04] I assume the switch to echo-icon-theme will happen after the beta freeze? [Di Sep 16 2008] [18:36:02] there are some guides for our inspiration like http://www.kde.org/announcements/4.0/desktop.php [Di Sep 16 2008] [18:36:03] it'll happen when/if someone updates kde-settings to use it. [Di Sep 16 2008] [18:36:46] many icons are missing in systemsettings [Di Sep 16 2008] [18:36:48] it = echo-icon-theme. After having used it a bit, it's nice, but is missing a lot of kde-stuff, I'm concerned there may not be enough time to properly test and get missing/fall-back icons fixed in time. [Di Sep 16 2008] [18:37:28] that said, I'm still willing to give it a try, but it'll take some work to help id the missing bits, and bug art folks to fix/update when we need. [Di Sep 16 2008] [18:38:00] than: wrt recent kde-settings updates, you got my note about fedorahosted/kde-settings ? [Di Sep 16 2008] [18:38:28] rdieter: yes, i will commit the change to federahosted [Di Sep 16 2008] [18:39:12] thanks, once that's done, the icon change was already committed there, we just need to make a new release (I can, soonish). [Di Sep 16 2008] [18:39:42] Won't it just fallback to Oxygen if the Echo icons are missing? [Di Sep 16 2008] [18:39:54] Kevin_Kofler: it should [Di Sep 16 2008] [18:39:57] So where's the big problem there? [Di Sep 16 2008] [18:40:22] Kevin_Kofler: I thought so, but there's some intermediate fallback going on here (ie, seems to use echo generic fallbacks, instead of falling back to exact-match oxygen ones instead). [Di Sep 16 2008] [18:40:44] rdieter: it's a bug in echo, [Di Sep 16 2008] [18:40:55] oh. I'm just totally guessing. :) [Di Sep 16 2008] [18:41:58] than: bugs filed? and/or are art folks aware of it? [Di Sep 16 2008] [18:42:09] Kevin_Kofler: the mixture of oxygen and echo doesn't look good IMO [Di Sep 16 2008] [18:42:34] Well, that's a "feature" of KDE 4's icon loader, it will fallback to generic icons from the same theme before falling back down the inheritance hierarchy. [Di Sep 16 2008] [18:42:47] It's what the fd.o specs specify, but nobody implemented it before KDE 4. [Di Sep 16 2008] [18:43:09] I consider it a bad idea, but it was exactly for consistency concerns like than's that it was specified that way. [Di Sep 16 2008] [18:43:20] And some parts of KDE rely on this feature, so patching it is a bad idea. [Di Sep 16 2008] [18:43:41] E.g. start-here-kde should fallback to start-here before going down the inheritance. [Di Sep 16 2008] [18:44:23] so, using echo needswork to make it usable. shocker. :) let's see if we can (help) make it happen. worst case, we can fallback to using oxygen (like F-9) [Di Sep 16 2008] [18:46:49] anything else? Or can we settle for an awesomely short(er) meeting? [Di Sep 16 2008] [18:48:29] ok, KDE-SIG Meeting end, thanks all. [Di Sep 16 2008] [18:48:51] Topic rdieter setzt das Kanal-Topic auf "Channel is used by various Fedora groups and committees for their regular meetings | Note that meetings often get logged | For questions about using Fedora please ask in #fedora | See http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/FedoraMeetingChannel for meeting schedule". [Di Sep 16 2008] [18:49:12] svahl: log bot? :) [Di Sep 16 2008] [18:49:26] affirmative [Di Sep 16 2008] [18:49:27] :)