From Fedora Project Wiki

stickster Hi folks, we're just waiting for our moderator to arrive. 11:02
stickster Please give us just a couple minutes and we'll be ready to go. 11:02
-!- mizmo [n=duffy@nat/redhat/x-2f22018bb0f26a19] has joined #fedora-board-public 11:02
-!- is6s [] has joined #fedora-board-public 11:03
jds2001 and why is snow such a good thing? 11:03
jds2001 snow sucks, imo 11:03
jds2001 yeah, i know i live in the wrong part of the country if i think that 11:03
stickster Hi everyone 11:04
stickster The fabulous Mairin Duffy (sorry, missing diacriticals) will be your moderator today 11:04
* JMakey claps 11:04
mizmo :) 11:05
* inode0 is too old for backflips but does one anyway 11:05
mizmo so does anyone have any questions for the board? 11:05
stickster We'll be happy to take questions. mizmo will take care of bringing your questions to #fedora-board-meeting. 11:05
stickster If you're not on that channel, you'll want to be. 11:05
stickster That's where the Board will give its answers. 11:05
stickster Feel free to discuss in here as needed! 11:06
stickster OK, take it away mizmo 11:06
stickster (and contributors -- ask away!) 11:06
* diauq is here in disguise to seed questions if needed 11:06
diauq darn, did I say that outloud? 11:06
mizmo seed if you must :) 11:06
* inode0 wants to know why mizmo is not on the board? 11:07
mizmo hehe 11:07
ongolaBoy hi, i'd like to know if with the creation of the SIG/server, we'll have a fedora 'server' release ? 11:07
diauq inode0: you can nominate her 11:07
is6s Probably cuz nobody can type her name 11:07
-!- joropo [n=joropo@] has joined #fedora-board-public 11:07
mizmo or pronounce it lol 11:07
ongolaBoy mizmo: by the way, i appreciate your work on art, it'z amazing 11:08
mizmo thanks ongolaBoy :) 11:08
* inode0 heartily endorses mizmo for the board or anything else and would be honored to nominate her if she will run 11:08
mizmo i might think about it :) 11:08
mizmo ongolaBoy, if you have any followups let me know! 11:09
is6s The server SIG discussion and the excellent summary on FWN did bring up the need to somehow capture critical knowledge in some form more accessable than the HOWTOs 11:09
ongolaBoy mizmo: ok 11:10
* ongolaBoy thinks that it could be a good idea to have @server in kickstart 11:12
jds2001 then you have the issue of defining what's in it. 11:12
inode0 jds2001: I can provide you with the proper package list :) 11:13
mizmo to lessen confusion im gonna post only items posed as questions in the board meeting channel 11:13
mizmo so, let's play jeopardy : 11:13
mizmo :) 11:13
jds2001 inode0: your proper package list is different than mine, which is different from everyone else's 11:14
jds2001 but like f13 said, what is it outside of @core and @base? 11:14
inode0 sure, anything remotely close to begin with is an improvement 11:15
jds2001 so if you make your way to fudcon i'm leading a session on comps 11:16
jds2001 this is perfect fodder for such a discussion :) 11:17
jds2001 is the "knowledge base" not the wiki? 11:17
mizmo i can ask :) 11:18
jds2001 I realize that search blows chunks, but we need to move to non-hierarchial naming to fix that. 11:18
is6s spooleba has it exactly right 11:20
jds2001 stickster: slap f13 :) 11:20
jds2001 to f13, yes - there's an effort to renmae pages in a "MW-friendly" way 11:22
mizmo (was that fair is6s 11:22
mizmo ?) 11:23
is6s nice guy - I'm already in the doc group -- but yeah, no reason I shouldnt be as much to blame as anyone else 11:23
jds2001 and diauq has it :) 11:23
mizmo does anyone have another question for the board? 11:29
mizmo and i can queue it up 11:29
inode0 usually I badger them with questions but I'm in such a happy mood today I don't really want to keep them :) 11:30
mizmo hehe 11:31
* inode0 thanks the board for all their work and requests they keep mizmo's seat warm 11:31
diauq ok, let's turn the firehose on someone else's area ... 11:31
inode0 maybe I should rephrase that 11:31
diauq Q: ... caveat -- we know it is FESCo that sets the schedule for F11/F12, but recent discussions on f-a-b have shown an opinion split amongst people who are on the Board and are now or have been on FESCo, in other words ... the very people who need to reach a consensus. Is there any progress in thinking toward a consensus? 11:31
-!- jeremy [n=nnkatzj@nat/redhat/x-598b5ea2ffd5a217] has joined #fedora-board-public 11:32
is6s Is Paul gonna have fewer hats for F11 11:34
-!- glezos [n=glezos@fedora/glezos] has joined #fedora-board-public 11:34
mizmo okay i've got two in the queue, waiting for the last topic to wrap up 11:35
diauq is6s: for Docs, yes; we need to make ourselves redundant there or we've failed 11:35
is6s I suspect your neck is getting a little sore from all the hats, too 11:37
mizmo diauq, you can join #fedora-board-meeting to see the answer to your question (i just posted it) 11:38
mizmo i can paste you a summary if you prefer 11:38
is6s mizmo: he is, diff name 11:38
mizmo oh okay 11:38
mizmo (what's your other nick diauq?) 11:39
mizmo oh 11:39
mizmo haha 11:39
mizmo wait a minute aren't u on the board??? 11:39
is6s oh good, that will give us time to get the docs right 11:40
diauq mizmo: diauq and quaid used to be the same person, but an IRC accident in 2001 split their personalities. 11:41
diauq I am the evil half. 11:41
mizmo diauq, dont you normally have a goatee? 11:42
jds2001 and feedback we want :) 11:42
mizmo in that case, what does the evil half have? 11:42
diauq bald? 11:42
jds2001 that being said, I personally think that Jesse's proposal is sane. 11:42
jds2001 but if you can change my mind, then feel free :) 11:43
* ongolaBoy smiles about diauq/quaid personalities :) 11:43
is6s Neither - its predictability that important 11:43
glezos diauq: I suppose you live in Tulsa or something. 11:44
diauq glezos: ha! 11:44
is6s Shoot, Jesse had it right then backed off 11:45
jds2001 and if Jef sits on his hands, FESCo drops his feature. 11:49
jds2001 pretty simple, really. 11:50
is6s External folks need to know what they will get when. Better to track the features closely, develop the ability to estimate, and scope releases based on when features are highly probable 11:50
inode0 heh, who decides anything is a fuzzball in Fedora ... as recent discussions about capturing some notions of Fedora's organization graphically indicates 11:52
diauq inode0: we push decisions to the edge, that's the key 11:52
jds2001 there are some things that are very clearly delineated as to "who owns what" 11:52
is6s I still think we can do a lot better - but yeah, that is a good point. The trick is building out the tracking capability to do that predictabley 11:53
inode0 diauq: this isn't a problem to me, just makes graphing something that captures some sense of organization require more creativity than I have 11:54
mizmo i've got is6s's question " Is Paul gonna have fewer hats for F11" in the queue, if you have another question let me know 11:54
is6s mizmo: That was just a poke 11:54
jds2001 but I think a good one. 11:55
is6s I feel sorry for Paul and Karsten both 11:55
mizmo is6s, i can drop it if you want 11:55
is6s its not important 11:55
mizmo okie 11:55
mizmo nothing in the queue then :) 11:55
is6s I think this discussion is a good one, even if it is going entirely wrong-headed, but thats another discussion 11:56
diauq predictability has to be evaluated as a value; that's part of what I am poking at. 11:59
diauq we can say, "We are only going to be so predictable, deal with it." but let's not say we are predictable and then not be. 11:59
is6s diauq: Yes, and it isn't a simple problem, but I think we can do a lot better 11:59
* inode0 likes mystery and surprises in his release dates :) 12:00
inode0 but it messes a lot of other stuff up 12:00
-!- duckunix [] has quit [Client Quit] 12:00
is6s jds2001: Sorry I missed you rcomment way up there - I think he does anyway by default 12:03
is6s We should at least have an FMEA for the release at the start 12:04
-!- duckunix [] has joined #fedora-board-public 12:04
jds2001 FMEA? 12:07
is6s Its a risk-management tool -- failure mode effect analysis -- pretty simple but it helps focus the risks 12:08
-!- ongolaBoy [n=chatzill@] has left #fedora-board-public ["i should go, appreciate the meeting..."] 12:10
inode0 the board wandering is really helpful to voters in learning how sitting members think on the fly 12:11
is6s we've burned our hour already, how did that happen 12:11
diauq inode0: I think of the IRC meetings as a good chance to wander a bit, yes; to show where the lack of consensus turns into decisions, etc. 12:15
joropo stickster: could a history of past releases schedules be developed? Rather that pontificate upon what *should* happen, can we gat a view of how things unfolded before?> 12:16
stickster joropo: I believe someone's done that on one of the lists. 12:17
is6s I think Poelstra blogged on tracking, I think we need to do a lot better at that, but it won't bear fruit for a few more releases 12:17
joropo oh yeah? 12:17
joropo 'k. I'll search. 12:17
joropo polecat: tks 12:18
* joropo asked & answered. 12:21
stickster mizmo: Thank you very much for moderating today 12:22
mizmo my pleasure :) 12:22
stickster Thank you everyone for attending... some of the Board members may continue to hang out in this channel to talk 12:22
-!- skvidal [n=nnnnnnns@fedora/skvidal] has joined #fedora-board-public 12:22
-!- JMakey [i=[] has left #fedora-board-public ["thanks to mizmo and the board for their time and effort"] 12:23
inode0 mizmo: I'll send you something by this weekend to help you think about it :) 12:23
mizmo inode0, okay hehe 12:23
* inode0 actually came today to encourage max to give us all lessons in community building - and he was off doing it I guess 12:25
stickster Max is on travel today, I believe. 12:25
is6s f13 sounds like the old "developer as an artist" argument. Just because its hard doesn't mean you have to give up 12:25
skvidal invading russia 12:25
* stickster scratching his head at "giving up" 12:27
is6s stickster: I think working hard to improve is valuable, and history is an important component, even if it isnt black and white 12:27
is6s improve WRT schedule 12:28
stickster is6s: So... who's giving up? 12:28
is6s Jesse sounds a little like " you can't learn from past schedules because too many thing happen" 12:28
quaid actually I think he was making an argument that things _have_ improved 12:28
is6s Sure stuff happens, doesn't mean you throw away the learning 12:28
quaid because we have been learning, and maybe 12:29
quaid not to beat on them so much ":D 12:29
-!- f13 [n=jkeating@fedora/ender] has joined #fedora-board-public 12:29
stickster is6s: I think he said the opposite, actually 12:29
is6s And yeah, the fact of the matter is even after all the stiff, F10 isn't all that far off 12:29
is6s s/stiff/stuff 12:29
f13 I'm somewhat paying attention, but it would help to use my nick so that I get a highlight if anything is wanted from me. 12:29
stickster If you discount the 3 weeks thanks to the intrusion, we're only off by a week, which is pretty much de rigeur. 12:29
is6s Yeah, really, pretty good 12:30
-!- gregm_ [n=gregm@] has joined #fedora-board-public 12:30
jeremy stickster: you can't say from that, though, that we would have only been one week off without 12:30
is6s No reason not to be better -- if only to reduce stress 12:30
quaid yeah, i tell my wife that all the time -- "Think of how lame we were 10 years ago, and what we have accomplished since, and what we juggle now -- we _are_ better, and we _will_ continue to improve." 12:30
stickster jeremy: No, I can't really say either way, that's true. 12:30
jeremy stickster: and virtually every release has had its "thing" that we can attribute the delay to 12:30
quaid diauq: get out of here or you will cause a rift in the space time continuum 12:31
-!- diauq [n=kwade@fedora/quaid] has quit [""... and FU to quaid, too""] 12:31
is6s Hence the need for an FMEA 12:31
jeremy stickster: the fact of it is that the delays are remarkably consistent no matter what happens, what changes we put in place, etc 12:31
inode0 it seems quite remarkable to me that something like this can be planned and executed within a week of the target date with so many variables unknown 26 weeks+ earlier 12:33

Generated by 2.6 by Marius Gedminas - find it at!