From Fedora Project Wiki
Fedora Project Board Meeting :: Tuesday 2008-05-06
Roll Call
Attendees: Everyone on #fedora-board-meeting
Discussion Summary
- Board answers community questions on:
- Fedora University Tour
- Fedora 9 features
- Marketing and PR
- Fedora in higher education
- Focus areas for next 6-12 months
- The Board voted to open #fedora channel on IRC to no longer require registration of nicks. This is seen as a major hurdle for new people who don't know anything about IRC. ACTION ITEM: Dennis Gilmore to survey needs on IRC in terms of fostering better care for new users (i.e. social needs) and assessing technical needs.
IRC Transcript
- Raw discussion is here
| stickster | Welcome all to the IRC public Board meeting for May 2008. | 06 May 14:05 |
|---|---|---|
| stickster | The first meeting of each month is set aside for a public meeting so the community can ask Board members questions and get (mostly) realtime answers | 06 May 14:05 |
| stickster | Soon, we hope to do this in a slightly higher-bandwidth fashion via audio and Asterisk. | 06 May 14:06 |
| stickster | As I'm sure everyone will appreciate, our Infrastructure and Websites teams are busy working on making the Fedora 9 release superb. | 06 May 14:06 |
| stickster | To ask questions, join the #fedora-board-public channel, and spevack will take questions and funnel them here. | 06 May 14:07 |
| stickster | This channel is open to the public but only Board members have VOICE. | 06 May 14:07 |
| spevack | ready for questions? | 06 May 14:07 |
| stickster | The #fedora-board-public channel allows everyone to talk, pose questions, discuss, heckle, and so forth. | 06 May 14:07 |
| stickster | Bring it on! | 06 May 14:07 |
| stickster | :-) | 06 May 14:07 |
| --- mdomsch (n=Matt_Dom@cpe-70-124-62-55.austin.res.rr.com) changed mode: +o spevack | 06 May 14:07 | |
| --- mdomsch (n=Matt_Dom@cpe-70-124-62-55.austin.res.rr.com) changed mode: +o stickster | 06 May 14:07 | |
| spevack | from inode0: how was the university tour viewed in retrospect? didn't see much news about it lately. | 06 May 14:08 |
| spevack | inode0: while the Board types, I'll direct you here for one piece of news from the Red Hat Press Blog -- http://www.press.redhat.com/2008/04/25/fedora-returns-from-the-university-tour/ | 06 May 14:08 |
| spevack | and if the Board wants me to comment more on the UT, I will be happy to | 06 May 14:08 |
| stickster | The Fedora University Tour was a very cool experiment our Community Architecture Team put together | 06 May 14:09 |
| --- caillon (n=caillon@75.147.7.113) changed topic: Fedora Project Board public IRC Meeting. Q&A session: Please direct questions to spevack in the #fedora-board-public channel. | 06 May 14:09 | |
| mdomsch | spevack, be our guest | 06 May 14:09 |
| stickster | The purpose was to create more awareness of open source in computer science programs in schools around the nation | 06 May 14:09 |
| spevack | sure... | 06 May 14:09 |
| spevack | stickster: you go ahead for now | 06 May 14:09 |
| stickster | :-) | 06 May 14:10 |
| stickster | as well as to seed interest in Fedora specifically as an open source community, and to cultivate interest in students who form some of the upcoming FOSS superstar pool | 06 May 14:10 |
| notting | is there a way to pull some sort of stats as to new contributors gained during/as a result of the tour? | 06 May 14:11 |
| spevack | The university tour was led by Jack Aboutboul. We visited about 15 different schools throughout the US, with a few goals in mind. As Paul says, one was to find out what *students* are doing with Fedora, and second was to see what faculty members think about the readyness of open source curriculums in colleges | 06 May 14:11 |
| stickster | Jack Aboutboul went on a multi-city, multi-school journey and you can see some of his other posts at http://fedorauniversity.wordpress.com/ | 06 May 14:11 |
| spevack | There are several leads that were particularly interesting that came out of this tour, and that we need to follow up on. | 06 May 14:12 |
| spevack | In the next month or two, we'll be doing that. | 06 May 14:12 |
| stickster | notting: Jack is working on doing just that, as mentioned in the Community Architecture meeting notes: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/CommunityArchitecture/Meetings/2008-04-28 | 06 May 14:12 |
| spevack | In particular, there was a lot of interest at Carnegie Mellon, Syracuse, and Oregon State. | 06 May 14:12 |
| spevack | stickster: there have been 2 follow up questions | 06 May 14:13 |
| spevack | the first -- was it viewed as a success, and are future tours planned? | 06 May 14:13 |
| spevack | I'm happy to take that question -- I think that we view it as a successful lead-generation device at this point. | 06 May 14:13 |
| spevack | the amount of energy that we have discovered, compared to the few thousand dollars that we spent on it, was a good investment. | 06 May 14:14 |
| stickster | Yes, I would like to see it move outward to other geographic areas | 06 May 14:14 |
| spevack | The next few months, which is the follow up phase, will determine true success or failure | 06 May 14:14 |
| spevack | but if/when we do greenlight a second, we will probably look to do it outside of the US. | 06 May 14:14 |
| spevack | the next question, related, is from emilyr | 06 May 14:14 |
| dgilmore | spevack: i have a contact at Bradley i need to put you or gregdek in contact with | 06 May 14:14 |
| stickster | oops, hang on | 06 May 14:14 |
| spevack | Does openly available curricula for using linux and or fedora in university classes exist? | 06 May 14:15 |
| spevack | 06 May 14:15 | |
| * spevack waits now for the typers to catch up | 06 May 14:15 | |
| stickster | This was somewhat of a trial for this idea, and the community should expect to see more media (blog entries, external press, etc.) generated next time. | 06 May 14:15 |
| stickster | Hi emilyr | 06 May 14:17 |
| stickster | We have a couple of these kind of curricula in testing/development | 06 May 14:17 |
| stickster | NCSU has one: http://courses.ncsu.edu/csc591w/ | 06 May 14:17 |
| stickster | The other we are working on with Seneca College in Toronto, Canada | 06 May 14:17 |
| dgilmore | spevack: id like for us to make sure that we have course work that schools can pick up and run with. | 06 May 14:18 |
| dgilmore | stickster: ^^^^ | 06 May 14:18 |
| spevack | dgilmore: i agree. the coursework coming out of NCSU is being developed by a RH engineer, and gregdek is taking a role in it also. | 06 May 14:19 |
| stickster | yes, all this should be produced under a OSS compatible license | 06 May 14:19 |
| dgilmore | for instance i was asked at Bradley if id be willing to help them write courses around open source. for proposal. which was then followed by would you be willing to teach the courses | 06 May 14:19 |
| stickster | If I'm not mistaken, that's one of the ground rules | 06 May 14:19 |
| stickster | There are probably opportunities to have this included in the MIT OpenCourseware offerings, too. | 06 May 14:20 |
| dgilmore | is there conferences for university educators? should we have a presence at them? | 06 May 14:20 |
| spevack | dgilmore: Greg and Michael Tiemann spoke at CSEET in Charleston a few weeks ago. | 06 May 14:21 |
| spevack | it's a conference focusing on education | 06 May 14:21 |
| spevack | software engineering education, specifically | 06 May 14:21 |
| dgilmore | :) | 06 May 14:21 |
| spevack | sponsored by the IEEE | 06 May 14:21 |
| spevack | so the takeaway that I'm getting here is that we need to make some more noise publicly about what we are doing in the education realm. | 06 May 14:22 |
| stickster | dgilmore: I'll be going to the FSOSS conference in Toronto in October, as well. | 06 May 14:22 |
| dgilmore | spevack: yep. and we need to do more. | 06 May 14:22 |
| stickster | .http://fsoss.senecac.on.ca/2007/ <-- old 2007 page, 2008 not yet up | 06 May 14:22 |
| stickster | I'd encourage the other Board members to talk about any contact they have with higher education | 06 May 14:23 |
| stickster | And let's not forget this sort of work can start early. | 06 May 14:23 |
| spoleeba | spevack, make noise...and we need to get a good feel for what prevents people from doing an open curriculum | 06 May 14:23 |
| spoleeba | spevack, there could be common institutional roadblocks | 06 May 14:23 |
| stickster | spoleeba: I wonder what subset of those problems have already been faced (and/or conquered) by MIT | 06 May 14:23 |
| mdomsch | I know a prof at St. Louis U that is looking at barriers to open source usage among the staff | 06 May 14:24 |
| stickster | I went to a county-level information technology expo and used that opportunity to talk to instructors and administrators one-on-one about FOSS | 06 May 14:24 |
| spoleeba | stickster, I wouldnt stand up MIT as.. typical | 06 May 14:24 |
| stickster | spoleeba: Certainly if there are worries about course licensing, they won't be that different from MIT to the next university, though. | 06 May 14:24 |
| stickster | There are certainly a large set of issues that are common to all higher education. | 06 May 14:25 |
| spoleeba | stickster, i dont think educators...think about licensing | 06 May 14:25 |
| stickster | spoleeba: Err... isn't that what I said? | 06 May 14:25 |
| dgilmore | spevack: we should not ignore high school either. however we might be best started by getting university classes for computer educators. so that people feel more confident to teach FOSS in high school's | 06 May 14:25 |
| spoleeba | dgilmore, high schools will have even more aggressive institutional roadblocks i think | 06 May 14:26 |
| spevack | dgilmore: one our our summer interns for Fedora will be a high school student from NC School of Science and Math, FWIW. NEW QUESTION from emilyr: what are some of the major issues that Board candidates are focusing on this election? And my own addition: or what topics do current Board members think are important for the next 6-12 months of Fedora? | 06 May 14:26 |
| stickster | dgilmore: The one problem we'll run into in high schools -- and this isn't saying we *shouldn't* do so, just a barrier we should be aware of -- is the lack of resources that come with being a locally tax-funded institution. | 06 May 14:26 |
| spevack | whenever the board is ready for a new topic, there it is :) | 06 May 14:26 |
| spoleeba | stickster, inertia...and the ability to tie in to existing technology infrastructure that may exist...smart boards and crap | 06 May 14:26 |
| dgilmore | spoleeba: yes. but working in, by having teachers comming out of college. with knowledge and confidence in teaching FOSS should help | 06 May 14:27 |
| stickster | OK, let's move on | 06 May 14:27 |
| spevack | NEW QUESTION from emilyr: what are some of the major issues that Board candidates are focusing on this election? And my own addition: or what topics do current Board members think are important for the next 6-12 months of Fedora? | 06 May 14:27 |
| spevack | 06 May 14:27 | |
| * spevack quiets down now | 06 May 14:27 | |
| skvidal | fixing codeina | 06 May 14:27 |
| spoleeba | 06 May 14:27 | |
| * spoleeba hides | 06 May 14:27 | |
| mdomsch | one theme I see in the new candidates is finding new ways to get new (types of) people into Feodra | 06 May 14:27 |
| stickster | Let's keep in mind that not all Board candidates (1) have been announced, or (2) are present | 06 May 14:27 |
| skvidal | helping drop the barriers to contributing to fedora - that's mostly solved but needs better publicity, I think | 06 May 14:28 |
| spoleeba | skvidal, we have the click through cla in place? | 06 May 14:28 |
| stickster | We should really allow everyone to weigh in by populating the Board Nominations page: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Board/Elections/Nominations | 06 May 14:28 |
| skvidal | and we can, later. | 06 May 14:28 |
| stickster | skvidal: I think there's plenty more to do with respect to barriers. | 06 May 14:28 |
| dgilmore | 06 May 14:28 | |
| * dgilmore wants to focus on enabling people to scratch their itches | 06 May 14:28 | |
| stickster | I see a lot of those problems are being solved by the Infra and Websites teams, steady progress every day. | 06 May 14:29 |
| stickster | The new wiki will help. | 06 May 14:29 |
| stickster | So will other FAS2-compatible sites. | 06 May 14:29 |
| dgilmore | 06 May 14:29 | |
| * dgilmore will still work on that even if not re-elected | 06 May 14:29 | |
| skvidal | stickster: yes - but not entirely solved, and they need to be the focii for the next release cycle | 06 May 14:29 |
| spoleeba | what's important.... positioning SIGS as self-reliant entities as much as possible. So SIGs can scope their own work, and actively recruit from outside our community to meet the needs of that work | 06 May 14:29 |
| stickster | skvidal: +1 that | 06 May 14:29 |
| dgilmore | skvidal: and single signon everywhere :) | 06 May 14:30 |
| mdomsch | re publicity: the ambassadors have been doing a great job representing Fedora t events worldwide | 06 May 14:30 |
| stickster | I expect that by Fedora 10 release, most if not all our web properties should be tied into FAS2, for instance, so when someone joins with our new, easy click-through process, they immediately get wiki access, website access, maybe blog space, pushbutton inclusion in the planet, who knows. | 06 May 14:30 |
| skvidal | dgilmore: s/single/seldom/ | 06 May 14:30 |
| skvidal | stickster: blog space sounds like doom, imo - but sure | 06 May 14:31 |
| stickster | spoleeba: The SIGs are going to be especially important when it comes to getting ISVs and others involved in Fedora & EPEL | 06 May 14:31 |
| stickster | skvidal: pessimist :-P | 06 May 14:31 |
| stickster | :-D | 06 May 14:31 |
| spoleeba | its pretty difficult to recruit new people at the general project level. So as we lower the barriers to entry we need to make it easier for the groups within the larger project to go out and actively pull people in | 06 May 14:31 |
| skvidal | stickster: realist :) | 06 May 14:31 |
| stickster | ISV, by the way == "independent software vendor" for anyone here who's not in the biz. | 06 May 14:32 |
| stickster | Heck, I barely knew until I joined Red Hat. | 06 May 14:32 |
| caillon | emilyr, the things I'd like to see are: getting more contributors. how can we bolster the triage, testing communities for example? we could also use more people on the website, too. also, I'd like to see more focus on getting upstreams to package in fedora, and to make it easier for people to jump in and contribute. oh, and codec buddy and desktop experience. :) | 06 May 14:32 |
| skvidal | caillon: I believe calling it codec buddy will get you cursed thrice by thomasvs | 06 May 14:33 |
| spoleeba | caillon, we have to have a recruitment and retention framework | 06 May 14:33 |
| --- ChanServ (ChanServ@services.) changed mode: +v steved | 06 May 14:33 | |
| spoleeba | caillon, within which SIGs can participate | 06 May 14:33 |
| caillon | skvidal, maybe he can forgive me since i voted to keep it in ;) | 06 May 14:33 |
| skvidal | caillon: :) | 06 May 14:33 |
| steved | sorry I'm late... | 06 May 14:33 |
| stickster | Steve Dickson, everyone! Give him a big hand.... | 06 May 14:34 |
| stickster | *applause* | 06 May 14:34 |
| notting | emilyr - i think we need to figure out (as caillon mentioned) how to get people into QA, triage, etc. we're historically very understaffed on those tasks, and getting more focus there can only help | 06 May 14:34 |
| caillon | spoleeba, yeah, absolutely | 06 May 14:34 |
| dgilmore | 06 May 14:34 | |
| * dgilmore *ROARS* | 06 May 14:34 | |
| mdomsch | I'm happy to see more cvsextras sponsors self-nominating | 06 May 14:35 |
| mdomsch | it's encouraging to see that group want to expand further which will help new contributors too | 06 May 14:35 |
| caillon | i think we've done a great job with getting engineering contributions. (though more is always welcome). but not so much with getting a lot of other contributors. and i don't mean to diminish the work that people are doing on testing, website, docs, etc. but they could use some help. | 06 May 14:35 |
| dgilmore | 06 May 14:35 | |
| * dgilmore thinks we need to get some vocal supporters in the media, etc. People that can help get and keep fedora on users minds | 06 May 14:35 | |
| spoleeba | caillon, im still interested in find SIGs interested in experimenting with a focused recruitment week, that we can make noise about and match walkins with an appropriate SIG | 06 May 14:36 |
| dgilmore | caillon: indeed | 06 May 14:36 |
| mdomsch | sjvn :-) | 06 May 14:36 |
| caillon | spoleeba, sign me up. I'm there. | 06 May 14:36 |
| spevack | stickster: I'll invent my own follow up question here, but perhaps this would be a good time to tell folks about the press work that is going on around Fedora 9, the interviews, press kits, etc. | 06 May 14:36 |
| dgilmore | spevack, stickster: please tell | 06 May 14:37 |
| spevack | 06 May 14:37 | |
| * spevack wants to moderate a Fedora Board Election debate between candidates :) | 06 May 14:37 | |
| stickster | "I know Bill Nottingham. Bill Nottingham is a friend of mine... and Jef Spaleta, you're no Bill Nottingham." | 06 May 14:38 |
| spoleeba | spevack, i will subvert such a 'debate' into a consensus building discussion | 06 May 14:38 |
| stickster | So about press work. | 06 May 14:38 |
| stickster | We are using the Fedora 9 launch as a means to improve the openness and vigor of our Fedora Marketing teamwork | 06 May 14:39 |
| stickster | We have participation from people both inside Red Hat and from the greater community of volunteers | 06 May 14:39 |
| stickster | Starting at FUDCon back in January | 06 May 14:39 |
| dgilmore | :) | 06 May 14:40 |
| stickster | we put together thematic points that would help us unify messages about Fedora. | 06 May 14:40 |
| stickster | We've used those themes to build talking points for use by Ambassadors and other community members when they talk about Fedora | 06 May 14:40 |
| stickster | We've leveraged the excellent progress John Poelstra (poelcat) made on the feature process | 06 May 14:41 |
| stickster | Turning that into an easy way to rattle off the many great features in Fedora 9 | 06 May 14:41 |
| stickster | We've integrated points about some of the work our community has done this cycle | 06 May 14:41 |
| stickster | including Artwork | 06 May 14:41 |
| stickster | KDE 4 | 06 May 14:41 |
| stickster | and one of my favorite stories... | 06 May 14:41 |
| stickster | ROBOT SOCCER PLAYERS! | 06 May 14:42 |
| spoleeba | robotic telescopes are better | 06 May 14:42 |
| stickster | spoleeba: hush | 06 May 14:42 |
| stickster | :-D | 06 May 14:42 |
| caillon | robots that build robots are still better | 06 May 14:42 |
| stickster | All of this is a framework for doing a new kind of marketing, "open marketing" if you will | 06 May 14:42 |
| stickster | we have participation from a more-or-less dedicated team member on the Red Hat press team | 06 May 14:43 |
| stickster | She is helping us maximize our impact | 06 May 14:43 |
| stickster | by tying us into all the important press contacts cultivated at Red Hat. | 06 May 14:43 |
| stickster | This week I'm currently doing a pretty startling number of press interviews about Fedora 9 | 06 May 14:43 |
| spoleeba | stickster, just dont tell people it cures cancer..i want that to be a surprise | 06 May 14:44 |
| stickster | And the impressive thing about all this cooperative work in Fedora Marketing is that it makes these interviews really easy! | 06 May 14:44 |
| stickster | I think people are going to see an enormous amount of press around Fedora 9 | 06 May 14:44 |
| stickster | But... | 06 May 14:44 |
| stickster | and this is ***VERY IMPORTANT***.... | 06 May 14:44 |
| stickster | We still need EVERYONE'S help | 06 May 14:45 |
| stickster | When you see stories, digg them. | 06 May 14:45 |
| stickster | Send them to friends. | 06 May 14:45 |
| stickster | Bubble this information up in the online newspool. | 06 May 14:45 |
| stickster | We've also sent Live USB devices out to the press | 06 May 14:46 |
| stickster | for the first time this release cycle. | 06 May 14:46 |
| stickster | So they can actually put their hands on the distro and try it before, during, or after the interview. | 06 May 14:46 |
| stickster | Our art team helped Max make a spiffy one-sheet to go with it, and it has plenty of opportunity for follow-up contact. | 06 May 14:46 |
| stickster | One thing I would like to see us continually improve is the way we deal with press outlets. | 06 May 14:47 |
| stickster | It's easy to respond to news blogs with "You got this wrong"... | 06 May 14:47 |
| spevack | One more question for the Board, whenever you want it, inspired by a comment in -public. | 06 May 14:47 |
| stickster | But if we can turn that instead into "I see where you may not know about XYZ... would you like to have an interview with a Fedora leader to talk about it?" | 06 May 14:47 |
| stickster | *that* is a big win PR-wise. | 06 May 14:47 |
| stickster | EOF | 06 May 14:48 |
| stickster | (finally) | 06 May 14:48 |
| spevack | stickster: +1 to that | 06 May 14:48 |
| spevack | and on a directly related note | 06 May 14:48 |
| spevack | a comment in -public was that the link you sent to the tact filter page was really useful | 06 May 14:48 |
| spevack | and here's my question. | 06 May 14:48 |
| spevack | Would someone on the board be willing to look into how well or poorly we are treating people who come into #fedora with questions, comments, etc. | 06 May 14:48 |
| spevack | that's the first point of contact for many. | 06 May 14:48 |
| spevack | and I wonder what the culture of #fedora is like these days. | 06 May 14:49 |
| dgilmore | spevack: sure, i would be willing to | 06 May 14:49 |
| stickster | spevack: That's an EXCELLENT question. | 06 May 14:49 |
| stickster | dgilmore: Thank you sir | 06 May 14:49 |
| skvidal | okay | 06 May 14:49 |
| spoleeba | the culture is the same as it ever was | 06 May 14:49 |
| skvidal | wit hthat in mind | 06 May 14:49 |
| skvidal | here's the first thing | 06 May 14:49 |
| skvidal | we stop the registered-only and non-root thing in #fedora | 06 May 14:49 |
| stickster | spoleeba: That bad? | 06 May 14:50 |
| spoleeba | maybe how the channel works or doesn't is my fault | 06 May 14:50 |
| spoleeba | stickster, bad? i dont know if its bad...its consistent | 06 May 14:50 |
| skvidal | stickster: it's a harsh place for someone who is new | 06 May 14:50 |
| stickster | And that is appalling. | 06 May 14:50 |
| skvidal | stickster: do this - boot the livecd | 06 May 14:51 |
| skvidal | stickster: login | 06 May 14:51 |
| spevack | May 13th would be a good deadline for trying to get some quick fixes made to that room | 06 May 14:51 |
| skvidal | stickster: try to go ask a question in #fedora | 06 May 14:51 |
| spoleeba | stickster, if its going to change..its going to require an affirmative effort by a group of people committed to upholding a certain level of discourse....and one or two of those people need to be active in channel all the time | 06 May 14:51 |
| skvidal | I've done this test in the past | 06 May 14:51 |
| skvidal | 1. IF you can get past trying to attach to the channel AT ALL | 06 May 14:52 |
| skvidal | 2. then you normally will be either ignored or abused | 06 May 14:52 |
| mdomsch | 1) we can solve technically | 06 May 14:52 |
| skvidal | yes | 06 May 14:52 |
| mdomsch | 2) we have to solve in person | 06 May 14:52 |
| stickster | So dgilmore, I think this means you have a mandate for recruiting. | 06 May 14:52 |
| spoleeba | stickster, meaning... office hourse | 06 May 14:52 |
| stickster | spoleeba: I can do those. Who's with me? | 06 May 14:53 |
| notting | is there any way to change the behavior of *existing* people in those channels? do we have any carrots/sticks? | 06 May 14:53 |
| dgilmore | spot: can you please give me op in #fedora | 06 May 14:53 |
| skvidal | notting: silence | 06 May 14:53 |
| spoleeba | stickster, i can't commit to specific hours...im in there all the time..but i can't commit to a speecific time | 06 May 14:53 |
| caillon | stickster, yeah, sounds good | 06 May 14:53 |
| stickster | spoleeba: Being in there "a lot" should count. | 06 May 14:53 |
| stickster | notting: I think to change that behavior we first need to identify the trouble areas/people. | 06 May 14:54 |
| spevack | Is there any reason not to remove the "you have to be registered to go into #fedora" requirement? | 06 May 14:54 |
| spevack | couldn't we do that today? | 06 May 14:54 |
| stickster | spevack: Wasn't skvidal saying that's done? | 06 May 14:54 |
| skvidal | no, I wasn't | 06 May 14:54 |
| skvidal | I said it should be done | 06 May 14:54 |
| stickster | Oh I see. | 06 May 14:54 |
| stickster | sorry. | 06 May 14:54 |
| spevack | i think he was advocating that it *should* be done | 06 May 14:54 |
| skvidal | and the non-root thing, too | 06 May 14:54 |
| skvidal | I understand | 06 May 14:54 |
| skvidal | irc'ing as root is bad/dangerous/etc | 06 May 14:54 |
| skvidal | except that some people get lost | 06 May 14:55 |
| caillon | remove the restrictions | 06 May 14:55 |
| dgilmore | skvidal: perhaps send a message if the user is root to warn why its bad if we can | 06 May 14:55 |
| spoleeba | stickster, you also need to craft an affirmative manifesto that underlines what people commit to when they sign up for office hours... just re-write the boy scout pledge or something | 06 May 14:55 |
| skvidal | and the message from freenode about that is completely obscure | 06 May 14:55 |
| dgilmore | buit allow them to seek help | 06 May 14:55 |
| spevack | 06 May 14:55 | |
| * spevack presses the board for a vote on this relatively up or down question :) | 06 May 14:55 | |
| skvidal | dgilmore: it does - but it gets lost in all the other garbage | 06 May 14:55 |
| spoleeba | skvidal, you gonna remove the root bans as well | 06 May 14:55 |
| stickster | dgilmore: skvidal: Right, an automessage that *makes sense* to new people. | 06 May 14:55 |
| spoleeba | skvidal, ? | 06 May 14:55 |
| caillon | spevack, kill the restrictions. open it up. | 06 May 14:55 |
| notting | caillon: +1 | 06 May 14:55 |
| stickster | caillon: +1 | 06 May 14:55 |
| skvidal | caillon: +1 | 06 May 14:55 |
| dgilmore | +1 | 06 May 14:55 |
| stickster | Oh wait, I don't get to vote. | 06 May 14:55 |
| mdomsch | +1 | 06 May 14:55 |
| skvidal | stickster: the message gets lost in the garbage from xchat/freenode | 06 May 14:55 |
| caillon | stickster, well you don't know that. we might deadlock on it. :P | 06 May 14:56 |
| stickster | skvidal: true enough -- is it not possible to institute a bot to do this? | 06 May 14:56 |
| spevack | so who's the admin of #fedora? let's drop the restrictions right now. | 06 May 14:56 |
| stickster | I thin spot is. | 06 May 14:56 |
| mdomsch | stickster, yes, a bot that sends a message is what you want | 06 May 14:56 |
| stickster | *think | 06 May 14:56 |
| spoleeba | skvidal, better have the specific instructions for what ops are suppose to do when a bot attacks.. | 06 May 14:56 |
| stickster | spot: Why lookee who's here! | 06 May 14:56 |
| skvidal | spoleeba: ban the bots | 06 May 14:56 |
| caillon | spoleeba, kickban? | 06 May 14:56 |
| mdomsch | spot is one; |Jef| is another | 06 May 14:57 |
| spevack | 06 May 14:57 | |
| * spevack has another meeting at 3:00 PM, so he will leave the Board to wrap up this IRC session itself. Thanks all! | 06 May 14:57 | |
| skvidal | mdomsch: bots? yah true | 06 May 14:57 |
| spoleeba | caillon, like i said... office hours | 06 May 14:57 |
| caillon | spoleeba, we could also have a bot which does that | 06 May 14:57 |
| stickster | mdomsch: Can we voice spot so he can respond here? | 06 May 14:57 |
| spoleeba | caillon, cuz that a 30 minute commitment :-> | 06 May 14:57 |
| --- mdomsch (n=Matt_Dom@cpe-70-124-62-55.austin.res.rr.com) changed mode: +v spot | 06 May 14:57 | |
| spoleeba | caillon, you have a bot that can tell a human user from a bot user? without requring registration? | 06 May 14:57 |
| stickster | spot: You can respond if needed | 06 May 14:57 |
| spot | i will drop the restrictions on #fedora now. | 06 May 14:58 |
| skvidal | thanks | 06 May 14:58 |
| stickster | spot: Thank you! | 06 May 14:58 |
| caillon | spoleeba, you can have a bot check for the most annoying of behaviors, like flooding. | 06 May 14:58 |
| dgilmore | thanks spot | 06 May 14:58 |
| spoleeba | caillon, that was sort of the reason why the registation was put in place.. to make it harder for bots to storm in for an hour at a time...if memory serves | 06 May 14:58 |
| caillon | spoleeba, also bots tend to have certain sigs they post. there's a db of them around somewhere surely | 06 May 14:59 |
| caillon | it won't be a perfect system but it would be better than nothing. | 06 May 14:59 |
| mdomsch | some additional volunteer keepers-of-the-peace could be put on the room's access list | 06 May 14:59 |
| mdomsch | to hand things if/when spot is offline | 06 May 15:00 |
| stickster | We should be careful to avoid stepping on people's right to speak their mind | 06 May 15:00 |
| caillon | also, i'm up at bizarro hours a lot, etc. | 06 May 15:00 |
| mdomsch | stickster, I was thinking about bot control | 06 May 15:00 |
| mdomsch | more so than people control | 06 May 15:00 |
| stickster | mdomsch: Yes, I was musing out loud | 06 May 15:01 |
| skvidal | caillon: know anyone in brno who wants to be an irc op :) | 06 May 15:01 |
| stickster | Oh, good call | 06 May 15:01 |
| caillon | skvidal, they probably all would WANT to ;) | 06 May 15:01 |
| skvidal | caillon: let me rephrase - know anyone in brno YOU would want to be an irc op? | 06 May 15:01 |
| caillon | i can come up with a few names, though. i'll ask them off line to see if they'd want to | 06 May 15:02 |
| skvidal | maybe brisbane has some nice folks, too | 06 May 15:02 |
| skvidal | or pune | 06 May 15:02 |
| caillon | yeah | 06 May 15:02 |
| stickster | Brilliant | 06 May 15:02 |
| skvidal | then we can cover the various tz's by people who would already be on irc | 06 May 15:02 |
| skvidal | mether is in pune, right? maybe he knows some folks who can keep an eye pon things | 06 May 15:02 |
| spoleeba | caillon, you need to reach out to the current ops on the channel | 06 May 15:03 |
| dgilmore | spoleeba: some of them i know are no longer involved in fedora | 06 May 15:03 |
| spoleeba | caillon, but there needs to be some sort statement concerning the level of commitment being asked for in the new world order | 06 May 15:03 |
| spoleeba | dgilmore, i meant the ones who are active in channel | 06 May 15:03 |
| mdomsch | msg chanserv access #fedora list to see | 06 May 15:03 |
| notting | should this be a SIG? the fedora-help-new-users SIG? | 06 May 15:06 |
| * stickster notes there are no more questions | 06 May 15:06 | |
| spoleeba | notting, actually that might be best... since its more than just #fedora | 06 May 15:06 |
| skvidal | 06 May 15:06 | |
| * skvidal would be in favor of a 'join irc' button on the desktop | 06 May 15:06 | |
| skvidal | and having it go to #fedora-help | 06 May 15:06 |
| skvidal | rather than #fedora | 06 May 15:06 |
| spoleeba | notting, #fedora is just a tool... how its meant to be used needs to have some context | 06 May 15:07 |
| skvidal | and-or rename #fedora to #fedora-social | 06 May 15:07 |
| spoleeba | skvidal, ximian had that | 06 May 15:07 |
| skvidal | and fwd #fedora to #fedora-help | 06 May 15:07 |
| skvidal | spoleeba: yes, I know | 06 May 15:07 |
| spoleeba | skvidal, in fact... i started doing irc stuff using xim's button | 06 May 15:07 |
| skvidal | so we know who to blame | 06 May 15:07 |
| skvidal | how nice | 06 May 15:07 |
| mdomsch | F10 feature! | 06 May 15:07 |
| skvidal | 06 May 15:08 | |
| * skvidal sends a poison pin letter to the kind folks at former-ximian | 06 May 15:08 | |
| mdomsch | but will it fit in the XFCE spin? :-) | 06 May 15:08 |
| skvidal | I personall blame luis villa | 06 May 15:08 |
| spoleeba | skvidal, to be perfectly honest... i think a new channel.. makes for the best fresh start..if we need to fix channel culture | 06 May 15:08 |
| mdomsch | I don't see a huge culture problem on fedora-list | 06 May 15:08 |
| skvidal | mdomsch: just a volume problem? | 06 May 15:08 |
| mdomsch | I wonder why #fedora would be that much different. Different people? | 06 May 15:09 |
| mdomsch | it's more acceptable to flame on IRC than email? | 06 May 15:09 |
| skvidal | mdomsch: forum + anonymity == asshole? | 06 May 15:09 |
| skvidal | mdomsch: lemme find the penny arcard formulation of that | 06 May 15:09 |
| * stickster has hard stop at 3:30 but here for duration otherwise | 06 May 15:10 | |
| stickster | Hm, #fedora-help is owned | 06 May 15:10 |
| skvidal | http://tcritic.com/archives/internet-dickwad-theory-from-penny-arcade/ | 06 May 15:10 |
| skvidal | there you go | 06 May 15:10 |
| spoleeba | mdomsch, its a combination of things | 06 May 15:11 |
| spoleeba | mdomsch, irc tends to be more panicked...since its syncronous communication | 06 May 15:11 |
| mdomsch | stickster, yes, but last used 3 years 36 weeks ago | 06 May 15:11 |
| skvidal | you can even get it on a tshirt | 06 May 15:11 |
| skvidal | http://www.pennyarcademerch.com/pat070381.html | 06 May 15:11 |
| dgilmore | stickster: by Thomaz | 06 May 15:11 |
| spoleeba | mdomsch, lists you have more time to think | 06 May 15:12 |
| stickster | mdomsch: True enough | 06 May 15:12 |
| stickster | mdomsch: Is there anyway to reclaim orphaned channels? | 06 May 15:12 |
| spoleeba | mdomsch, and even review what you write..before sending..if it was written emotionally | 06 May 15:12 |
| dgilmore | stickster: lets speak with free node staff | 06 May 15:12 |
| stickster | I could ask the Freenode staff I'm srue | 06 May 15:12 |
| stickster | dgilmore: *jinx | 06 May 15:12 |
| mdomsch | jeremy? | 06 May 15:12 |
| --- mdomsch (n=Matt_Dom@cpe-70-124-62-55.austin.res.rr.com) changed mode: +v jeremy | 06 May 15:12 | |
| spoleeba | mdomsch, unless you make a real effort to approach a conversation in irc, in a formal and courtesy manner, informal and emotional communication can dominate and be misinterpreted | 06 May 15:13 |
| stickster | spoleeba: Boiling down to: 1. Stop. 2. Think. 3. Type. | 06 May 15:14 |
| spoleeba | stickster, harder to do in irc | 06 May 15:14 |
| * stickster prepares to get out his "golden rule" sermon, then thinks better of it and puts it away. | 06 May 15:14 | |
| skvidal | stickster: doesn't work for me | 06 May 15:14 |
| skvidal | stickster: I don't mind people being mean to me, it gives me more reason to be mean back | 06 May 15:14 |
| spoleeba | stickster, when people want answers to why their system doesnt boot..and if they dont get answers within 1 minute..they leave | 06 May 15:14 |
| skvidal | :) | 06 May 15:14 |
| stickster | skvidal: You always foil my plans | 06 May 15:14 |
| skvidal | stickster: and my stupid dog | 06 May 15:15 |
| skvidal | and those meddling kids | 06 May 15:15 |
| * stickster puts skvidal on #fedora-help kickban list | 06 May 15:15 | |
| stickster | But lest I derail the conversation.... | 06 May 15:15 |
| skvidal | stickster: no one has ever confused me w/a tech support person | 06 May 15:15 |
| spoleeba | stickster, #fedora is like a fast food drive-up window for system help | 06 May 15:15 |
| stickster | spoleeba: understood. | 06 May 15:16 |
| stickster | I've been around it enough to see how it works | 06 May 15:16 |
| stickster | But regardless, some of the escalation I see in there from people who should know better is, frankly, sad. | 06 May 15:16 |
| stickster | I think one of the cardinal expectations should be, if you're getting tired of answering people's questions politely, LEAVE. It's OK. | 06 May 15:17 |
| spoleeba | stickster, which is why i think affirmative office hours would help..put people in the right mental frame... | 06 May 15:17 |
| stickster | spoleeba: totally agree. | 06 May 15:17 |
| spoleeba | stickster, and it gives us a way to reward effort in the area..by tracking who's signing up and doing well | 06 May 15:18 |
| notting | fedora help, 5 cents. the doctor is [ in ] | 06 May 15:18 |
| skvidal | notting: yes b/c lucy was excellent support | 06 May 15:18 |
| notting | skvidal: they come running up to view the video and we pull the codecs away | 06 May 15:18 |
| skvidal | :) | 06 May 15:19 |
| stickster | notting: correct answers, $1,000,000 3_/-: | 06 May 15:19 |
| caillon | yeah. mozilla (used to?) give out tshirts when people started contributing in a meaningful way, which could include just being useful on irc to new users or doing triage work, etc | 06 May 15:19 |
| * stickster senses this topic is disintegrating fast. | 06 May 15:19 | |
| mdomsch | Schroeder, don't you think my fedora blue dress is pretty? | 06 May 15:19 |
| skvidal | stickster: really? why do you say that | 06 May 15:19 |
| skvidal | okay | 06 May 15:20 |
| skvidal | I think we're done | 06 May 15:20 |
| skvidal | can I get a +1? | 06 May 15:20 |
| mdomsch | +1 | 06 May 15:20 |
| dgilmore | 06 May 15:20 | |
| * dgilmore says wrap it up | 06 May 15:20 | |
| caillon | skvidal, sounds like one of those songs on the radio these days | 06 May 15:20 |
| caillon | 06 May 15:21 | |
| * caillon shakes his +1s in the air like he just don't care | 06 May 15:21 | |
| skvidal | caillon: you mean it sounds like crap? | 06 May 15:21 |
| stickster | ♩♪♬♫ | 06 May 15:21 |
| notting | any other questions from the channel? | 06 May 15:21 |
| skvidal | okay - I'm going to change locations | 06 May 15:21 |
| stickster | notting: They all left long ago. :-) | 06 May 15:21 |
| skvidal | back in a few minutes | 06 May 15:21 |
| stickster | I'll take care of the log. | 06 May 15:22 |
| stickster | Thanks, everyone, and bye | 06 May 15:22 |
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