From Fedora Project Wiki

Meeting Summary

  • Board page is out of date
    • ACTION: Paul to start fixes, Board members to complete bio data
  • Sponsorship -- waiting for Paul's proposal
  • "What is Fedora"
    • Waiting for spot's proposal, to be provided week of 2009-07-06
    • Caillon's proposal to follow for meeting week of 2009-07-13
  • Board approved use of hardware by the PPC secondary arch team, while noting this is not a policy precedent and is based on specific circumstances for PPC; implementation details to be worked out between PPC and Infrastructure separately
  • Toxicity
    • ACTION: Josh to write up process page
    • ACTION: Board to find another volunteer for hall monitoring
    • ACTION: Dennis to establish a list for the moderators to record their work
  • Board agrees with having a cross-team coordination list, fwiw
  • Thanks to departing members

Questions & Answers

  • nirik: "I have a question about who fedora is for (which I know the Board has been working on). Should things like the get-fedora page target new to fedora/linux users? Or should we target it more at advanced users who know what gnome/kde/xfce are? Or can the board answer yet before the target market is decided?"
  • _Hicham_: "I have a question about mono, what is the status of mono in Fedora 12?"
  • jmbuser: "Has it been decided that all documentation (including the wiki) is going to be covered by a Creative Commons license? Is this approved by legal and what does it cover?"
  • Nushio: "I have a question about the default Bluetooth manager. Can it really be changed to something else, or are we stuck with whatever Gnome provides?"

#fedora-board-meeting log

stickster Okay, who's here? Mouseketeer roll call! 02 Jul 13:00
mmcgrath 02 Jul 13:00
* mmcgrath here 02 Jul 13:00
stickster mmcgrath: Who loves ya baby? 02 Jul 13:00
mmcgrath apparently the community 02 Jul 13:01
* stickster doesn't know if Telly Savalas references work with this crowd. 02 Jul 13:01
poelcat 02 Jul 13:01
* poelcat present 02 Jul 13:01
notting 02 Jul 13:01
* notting is here 02 Jul 13:01
stickster We're missing mdomsch, which is expected as he's on vacation. 02 Jul 13:01
stickster I think we may be missing caillon -- is that expected too? 02 Jul 13:01
jwb 02 Jul 13:02
* jwb is here 02 Jul 13:02
mmcgrath a spot? 02 Jul 13:02
spot 02 Jul 13:02
* spot is here 02 Jul 13:02
mmcgrath 02 Jul 13:02
* mmcgrath spots a spot 02 Jul 13:02
stickster ping dgilmore glezos 02 Jul 13:03
dgilmore because thats pong 02 Jul 13:04
dgilmore pong 02 Jul 13:04
mmcgrath when does the talking start?  :) 02 Jul 13:04
stickster Question to those members already here -- shall we do community Q&A first, so that we can accommodate contributors waiting to ask questions? 02 Jul 13:04
mmcgrath 02 Jul 13:04
* mmcgrath has no preference 02 Jul 13:04
* stickster would like to do that if possible 02 Jul 13:05
jwb fine with me 02 Jul 13:05
stickster Anyone against? 02 Jul 13:05
poelcat -1 against 02 Jul 13:05
notting stickster: one quick question - who is responsible for updating wiki/Board? 02 Jul 13:05
stickster notting: Anyone can, but I'm happy to do it if there's something out of joint 02 Jul 13:05
notting stickster: well, the list of members is out of date.. 02 Jul 13:06
stickster oops. 02 Jul 13:06
* stickster updated History page and forgot that. 02 Jul 13:06
poelcat 02 Jul 13:06
* poelcat wonders if we could get the meeting bot to join? 02 Jul 13:06
stickster Let me then ask any of our newly elected/appointed contingency to update themselves on this page: Board 02 Jul 13:06
stickster poelcat: Good point. 02 Jul 13:07
* stickster is sadly uneducated on how to make that happen 02 Jul 13:07
--- stickster (n=npfrield@fedora/stickster) changed mode: +v Oxf13 02 Jul 13:07
mmcgrath stickster: soon the meeting plugin will be part of zodbot and officially supported 02 Jul 13:07
stickster OK, poelcat wants to do agenda up front. No strong preferences, so we bend his way. 02 Jul 13:08
stickster The first item up is Sponsorship. 02 Jul 13:08
stickster In 5 min 02 Jul 13:09
stickster Current status -- I believe this is waiting on me to draw up a set of definitions for sponsor levels 02 Jul 13:09
stickster I've been -ENOTIME this whole month, for which I apologize. 02 Jul 13:09
--- stickster (n=npfrield@fedora/stickster) changed mode: +v ctyler 02 Jul 13:09
jwb should we clarify we don't mean packager sponsorship? 02 Jul 13:09
stickster jwb: Well, our previous agendas lay it out, but yes -- this is about *project* sponsorship 02 Jul 13:10
ctyler 02 Jul 13:10
* ctyler apologizes for being late, anticipates that his network problems may rear their ugly head again in a few minutes 02 Jul 13:10
stickster As in a commercial firm that wishes to give some sort of service or other non-labor contribution 02 Jul 13:10
mmcgrath 02 Jul 13:10
stickster mmcgrath: Yes, for example, that page 02 Jul 13:10
stickster The next item of work TODO is for me to write a proposal on the wiki laying out equivalency for sponsorship levels. What does it take to have your name on that page? 02 Jul 13:11
poelcat 02 Jul 13:11
* poelcat notes you may have to disable adblock to actually see sponsor logos 02 Jul 13:11
mmcgrath poelcat: they are, technically, ads :) 02 Jul 13:11
stickster We frequently have people ask whether mirroring Fedora gives them eligibility for that page, for example. Consensus is that it does not. 02 Jul 13:12
Oxf13 ACTION. apologies. this is jesse on mu iPhone. will not be able to respond quickly 02 Jul 13:12
stickster Any questions on this? 02 Jul 13:12
stickster If not, I'll move on and have something for the Board next week. 02 Jul 13:13
mmcgrath stickster: are these going to be hard rules or allow for exceptions? 02 Jul 13:13
dgilmore stickster: right but perhaps we could have a logo added to mirrormanager that can be displayed 02 Jul 13:13
stickster mmcgrath: I think exceptions are within the province of the Board 02 Jul 13:13
mmcgrath k 02 Jul 13:13
Oxf13 what happens when a company wants to donate people? 02 Jul 13:13
stickster dgilmore: Sure, we aren't blocking that either 02 Jul 13:13
poelcat Have we detailed anywhere what we want to accomplish with the sponsorship page? 02 Jul 13:14
mmcgrath dgilmore: and, of course, they're allowed to brand their mirror any way they want. 02 Jul 13:14
dgilmore mmcgrath: right 02 Jul 13:14
stickster poelcat: It's in previous sponsorship threads in the Board list 02 Jul 13:14
mmcgrath poelcat: I kind of wondered that too, I'm not sure what problem we're trying to fix. 02 Jul 13:14
stickster I have to round those up as part of the proposal, which is why it's taken so long to get it done. 02 Jul 13:14
mmcgrath bit I figured I'd wait until I saw the proposal before digging further. 02 Jul 13:14
mmcgrath s/bit/but/ 02 Jul 13:15
stickster mmcgrath: +1, I think that's probably best for now. 02 Jul 13:15
stickster I just wanted to give a status (which was essentially, "I haven't got this done, apologies") 02 Jul 13:15
* stickster sees our time is up for this topic, let's move on 02 Jul 13:15
stickster The next topic is the "What is Fedora?" topic. This depends on spot and caillon's proposals, which were delayed from last week due to LinuxTag and a couple other speedbumps. 02 Jul 13:16
spot -ENOTIME 02 Jul 13:16
spot i'll do my best to have something for next week 02 Jul 13:17
stickster spot: Can you remind us what specifically your proposal concerned? 02 Jul 13:17
* stickster notes there is a pending question in f-b-questions that might read on this. 02 Jul 13:17
spot uhh... 02 Jul 13:17
--- stickster (n=npfrield@fedora/stickster) changed mode: +v ctyler_ 02 Jul 13:17
spot it has been a while, i would have to go back in the logs to figure out what i committed to do 02 Jul 13:17
Oxf13 /me wonders if having this defined would have made the last two weeks of #fedora-devel any different 02 Jul 13:17
stickster IIRC it concerned changes in the website and the presentation of the default Fedora live spin 02 Jul 13:18
jwb Oxf13, possibly. but i doubt overly much 02 Jul 13:18
ctyler_ 02 Jul 13:18
* ctyler_ has wondered the same thing 02 Jul 13:18
spot stickster: i don't think it was that specific, i think it was more of a "many spins, one default." 02 Jul 13:18
stickster spot: May well have been. My memory is probably colored by the f-devel-l thread 02 Jul 13:19
stickster spot: I think it would be good to have this ready for next week's discussion so we can make some progress 02 Jul 13:19
spot 02 Jul 13:19
* spot is not a website designer, has no UI training, completely unqualified to tell anyone how to design a website 02 Jul 13:19
stickster I'll tickle caillon as well 02 Jul 13:19
spot i think caillon is at GUADEC? 02 Jul 13:20
stickster Oh, right, there's a serious conference going on in Gran Canaria I believe 02 Jul 13:20
stickster OK, not sure when that ends. 02 Jul 13:20
Oxf13 "changes must not break default spin unless prior agreement is reached" or something like that 02 Jul 13:20
notting 11 02 Jul 13:21
Oxf13 stickster: 10 days or so 02 Jul 13:21
dgilmore spot: you and me both 02 Jul 13:21
stickster Hm, that means he won't resurface until the week after next. So I guess spot, if you can have yours ready next week, I'll ask caillon to have his for the week after. 02 Jul 13:21
stickster Probably best to move on, and hit nirik's question when we get to Q&A 02 Jul 13:22
stickster The next item was on secondary arch 02 Jul 13:22
stickster The pending question was, can the group setting up for PPC use the existing PPC build hardware? 02 Jul 13:23
dgilmore we could allow them to use some of the ppc machines 02 Jul 13:23
stickster The last meeting we had on this topic, two weeks back, was missing some of the people who knew the most about infrastructure and builders. Since those people are here now, we stand a better chance of getting the answer. :-) 02 Jul 13:23
* stickster sets clock for 10 min 02 Jul 13:23
dgilmore we will still requires some for epel and F-10 F-11 and F-12 02 Jul 13:23
mmcgrath 02 Jul 13:23
* mmcgrath notes this sounds like a better deal to them then it is. 02 Jul 13:23
Oxf13 I still say yes if infra team can figure a safe way for this to happen 02 Jul 13:23
mmcgrath the warranty on all of our blades is up in October. 02 Jul 13:24
jwb mmcgrath, ? 02 Jul 13:24
jwb oh 02 Jul 13:24
mmcgrath I'm going to try to extend that a year. 02 Jul 13:24
jwb october+1year is better than nothing 02 Jul 13:24
mmcgrath I think I've got enough budget for all that, (this includes our x86_64 builders. 02 Jul 13:24
mmcgrath but we'll likely have to revisit then. 02 Jul 13:24
mmcgrath I'll have to look at our non-blade hardware. 02 Jul 13:24
jwb if we find it generally agreeable, i was thinking 1 or 2 of the 6 blades could be repurposed once F13 devel starts 02 Jul 13:25
mmcgrath we've got ppc4 which is a pretty beefy box, probably has 2 years left before it gets EOLed 02 Jul 13:25
Oxf13 when the warrenty is up do we just pull them? or just leave them busted when they break? 02 Jul 13:25
dgilmore mmcgrath: non blade is possibly out of warranty now 02 Jul 13:25
stickster Oxf13: that's an advisory vote since the new Board is seated for this meeting, right? :-) 02 Jul 13:25
mmcgrath dgilmore: I think all but ppc4 is 02 Jul 13:25
jwb so does anyone think it's not reasonable to reuse exiting ppc builders? 02 Jul 13:25
mmcgrath 02 Jul 13:26
* mmcgrath can't think of any. 02 Jul 13:26
jwb maybe we should start there :) 02 Jul 13:26
Oxf13 yes. I was restating my position from previous board meetings 02 Jul 13:26
dgilmore mmcgrath: ppc4 would be the iffy ones. ppc1 and 2 are very old and have been in use since not long after extras started 02 Jul 13:26
jwb guys, that's implementation details 02 Jul 13:26
mmcgrath I've given a potential proposal to dennis and tom about future secondary arch hosting. 02 Jul 13:26
mmcgrath I haven't really heard back though about moving forward with that or not. 02 Jul 13:26
dgilmore jwb: i think its reasonable to transition some of them. we will always require at least 2 in fedora for EPEL 02 Jul 13:26
stickster I think jwb originally brought this question, and just wanted to know if the Board was for or against the reuse of the hardware in general. Is that correct Josh? 02 Jul 13:26
jwb stickster, correct. the ppc sig can work with infrastructure to map out a plan. they just need approval from the board to use the hardwrae 02 Jul 13:27
notting 02 Jul 13:28
* notting is for the re-usage in this case, but does not feel it should be a precedent in other cases 02 Jul 13:28
stickster Are we specifically allowing this reuse so that we can get a viable secondary arch off the ground? 02 Jul 13:28
dgilmore stickster: we have viable secondary arches. bootstrapping them is not easy. ppc will have a jump in that its bootstrapped 02 Jul 13:29
jwb we have viable secondary arch efforts. i've yet to see one release 02 Jul 13:29
stickster dgilmore: i.e. previously maintained by Project personnel, you mean? 02 Jul 13:29
poelcat dgilmore: could it potentially help lead the way for the others? 02 Jul 13:29
Oxf13 in my opinion yes plus we already have ppc hardware hosted so this isn't asking much of the infra team. different than hosting a s390 02 Jul 13:29
dgilmore stickster:i guess not since i dont understand what you mean by that statement 02 Jul 13:30
dgilmore poelcat: not at all. 02 Jul 13:30
spot +1 for permission to use the hardware, and let ppc and infrastructure work out the specifics 02 Jul 13:30
* stickster apologizes for being unclear or marginalizing any other secondary arch efforts 02 Jul 13:30
dgilmore poelcat: the hardest part is getting things built to match rawhide 02 Jul 13:30
poelcat +1 to spots proposal 02 Jul 13:30
jwb dgilmore, that's after you have hardware to build stuff one 02 Jul 13:31
dgilmore +1 for the use fo the hardware 02 Jul 13:31
jwb er, on 02 Jul 13:31
notting +1 to spot's proposal 02 Jul 13:31
stickster dgilmore: What I was asking was, does "bootstrapped" mean previously maintained inside the Fedora Project itself 02 Jul 13:31
jwb wasn't that my proposal? 02 Jul 13:31
jwb bah. +1 to spots stole proposal 02 Jul 13:31
jwb ;) 02 Jul 13:31
dgilmore jwb: right, hardware for building and disk for /mnt/koji are quite large investments 02 Jul 13:31
dgilmore stickster: no bootstrapping means going from something/nothing to having the exact same builds as fedora 02 Jul 13:32
dgilmore stickster: so ppc is already bootstrapped 02 Jul 13:32
stickster dgilmore: OK, that's what I was trying to get at, thanks 02 Jul 13:32
dgilmore other arches are not 02 Jul 13:32
stickster I think we should make the additional point that this decision is made on the basis of the particular case of PPC, and not a blanket rule for offering hardware to other arches 02 Jul 13:32
Oxf13 +1 02 Jul 13:33
stickster Oxf13: (in your advisory capacity) ;-) 02 Jul 13:33
dgilmore stickster: right we dont have hardware for other arches. and if we did it could be evaluated as needed. 02 Jul 13:33
notting but please do not ship boxes to mmcgrath and dgilmore 02 Jul 13:33
dgilmore stickster: they still need a largish investment in hardware for the ppc hub and primary storage 02 Jul 13:34
stickster mmcgrath: Your vote? 02 Jul 13:34
dgilmore notting: :) 02 Jul 13:34
mmcgrath +1 I guess 02 Jul 13:34
mmcgrath 02 Jul 13:35
* mmcgrath is a little confused why we're actually voting. 02 Jul 13:35
poelcat i understand the issue to be that we are breaking from the policy of requring all secondary arches to provide their own hardware 02 Jul 13:35
stickster jwb's original question asked for a Board clarification because of that 02 Jul 13:36
stickster I see six +1's, so spot's proposal is carried. 02 Jul 13:36
stickster The next issue is the toxicity follow-up. 02 Jul 13:37
stickster At this point, we have three items pending: 02 Jul 13:37
stickster 1. write policy for how moderation works to the wiki 02 Jul 13:37
stickster 2. appoint moderators and note them as well 02 Jul 13:37
stickster 3. create list for moderators to use to record their work 02 Jul 13:37
stickster We hashed out most of #1, it just needs to be codified on the wiki. I believe that information is all written up in the past Board minutes 02 Jul 13:38
stickster Is there anyone who can write up that page by next week? 02 Jul 13:38
* stickster plate is full and needs to delegate something here 02 Jul 13:39
spot 02 Jul 13:39
* spot is far too overloaded to volunteer 02 Jul 13:39
stickster spot: understandable, np 02 Jul 13:39
stickster jwb: Any chance I could sucker you into that? 02 Jul 13:39
jwb yes 02 Jul 13:40
stickster jwb: OK, thank you sir. 02 Jul 13:40
stickster jwb: I'll be available as always to help/advise/edit. 02 Jul 13:40
jwb though i'll need a bit of a recap on #1 02 Jul 13:40
jwb if i have questions 02 Jul 13:40
stickster jwb: np, I'll get you pointers and so forth -- get with me after this or whenever convenient 02 Jul 13:40
jwb yep 02 Jul 13:41
stickster For moderators... we had a couple volunteers already who are @RH, but I would also like to see a volunteer moderator. I would also say that this venue may not be the right place to just toss around names, in case that person is not interested. 02 Jul 13:41
stickster We don't want to put anyone in an uncomfortable place by publicly asking them to help if they're not willing. 02 Jul 13:42
stickster I would propose we do that this week on the f-board-l for that reason. In any case, this isn't a blocker for #3, the list establishment 02 Jul 13:42
Oxf13 erm. even if @ redhat they are still volunteers 02 Jul 13:43
stickster Oxf13: oops, I meant to write non-RH volunteer moderator. Note that I referred to the @RH folks as volunteers as well 02 Jul 13:43
stickster "...I would also like to see a *non-RH* volunteer moderator" 02 Jul 13:43
* stickster goes back in time and corrects his buffer 02 Jul 13:43
stickster dgilmore: Would you be willing to get a list established for the moderators? 02 Jul 13:44
stickster Note this list would be strictly for recording moderation done. 02 Jul 13:44
Oxf13 why does @redhat or not matter? aren't we trying to end that fud? 02 Jul 13:45
dgilmore stickster: sure 02 Jul 13:45
dgilmore Oxf13: right we want volunteers regardless of where they come from 02 Jul 13:45
dgilmore stickster: we want one mailing list for the moderators to communicate on right? and it should eb an open list 02 Jul 13:46
dgilmore just so im clear on what im doing 02 Jul 13:46
jwb open? 02 Jul 13:46
dgilmore jwb: open archives 02 Jul 13:47
stickster dgilmore: Thank you for bringing that up. The moderator list is not an open list, for the reasons described in the original proposal. 02 Jul 13:47
dgilmore stickster: ok 02 Jul 13:47
stickster The reasons are the same as those for privately notifying the moderated individual that they've been moderated. 02 Jul 13:47
dgilmore stickster: understood 02 Jul 13:47
stickster OK, let's move on -- I want to get to Q&A 02 Jul 13:48
stickster Last topic is cross-project mailing list 02 Jul 13:48
stickster This was an idea that John put on the FAB, to help with cross-team collaboration. It doesn't need Board approval any more than any other list. 02 Jul 13:49
mmcgrath stickster: then why has it come up?  :) 02 Jul 13:49
stickster We wanted to make sure that Board people saw this idea, and that people interested in the Board (and thus the Project at large) see it as well 02 Jul 13:49
poelcat 02 Jul 13:49
* poelcat is probably going to call it 02 Jul 13:49
stickster This meeting has attendees beyond the FAB list (or even Fedora) membership. 02 Jul 13:49
stickster poelcat: Sounds reasonable to me 02 Jul 13:50
* stickster notes for any of those listeners, for more information, simply follow the FAB thread: 02 Jul 13:50
jwb that's fine with me too 02 Jul 13:50
Oxf13 is this for release coordination and the like? 02 Jul 13:50
jwb and i think the list is a great idea 02 Jul 13:50
stickster Oxf13: Yes 02 Jul 13:50
Oxf13 sorry disregard 02 Jul 13:50
jwb Oxf13, cross-project communication 02 Jul 13:50
stickster 02 Jul 13:51
stickster OK, time to move to Q&A 02 Jul 13:51
stickster We have a couple of questions waiting already in the queue 02 Jul 13:51
stickster [0] from nirik: I have a question about who fedora is for (which I know the Board has been working on). Should things like the get-fedora page target new to fedora/linux users? Or should we target it more at advanced users who know what gnome/kde/xfce are? Or can the board answer yet before the target market is decided? 02 Jul 13:51
notting "things that require multi-group coordination so to avoid cross-posting everywhere" 02 Jul 13:51
--- stickster (n=npfrield@fedora/stickster) changed mode: +v nirik 02 Jul 13:52
stickster nirik: I posted your question, sorry 02 Jul 13:52
notting i think 1) a final answer should probably wait for the rest of the 'what is fedora' discussion 2) in general, it's better to target more new users and let more experienced users find what they need than to try and do the reverse 02 Jul 13:52
nirik thats fine. I would only have done the same. ;) 02 Jul 13:52
jwb notting, yes 02 Jul 13:53
* stickster agrees as well. 02 Jul 13:53
jwb i simply think targeting advanced users is too limiting in terms of growing the fedora user base 02 Jul 13:54
mmcgrath experienced users != new users. I think Fedora should target experienced users, and that our pages should reflect that. 02 Jul 13:54
stickster Targeting advanced users for the download page itself is definitely limiting. 02 Jul 13:55
stickster It's a different question for the Project as a whole. 02 Jul 13:55
jwb mmcgrath, but then you are immediately pitting yourself in a distro war 02 Jul 13:55
mmcgrath jwb: just the opposite. 02 Jul 13:55
jwb "hey person that already knows linux and stuff! come use fedora instead of <$distro>!" 02 Jul 13:55
mmcgrath experienced users can make those decisions for themselves. 02 Jul 13:56
mmcgrath 02 Jul 13:56
* mmcgrath just is tired of us trying to please everyone. 02 Jul 13:56
mmcgrath we should pick, and stick to it. 02 Jul 13:56
mmcgrath let other distros pick up new linux users. 02 Jul 13:56
jwb why is that? 02 Jul 13:56
stickster I think the get-fedora page is not typically a page that experienced users need, and therefore targeting them there is a failure. 02 Jul 13:57
jwb stickster, i agree with that too 02 Jul 13:57
mmcgrath stickster: even I use when I download fedora. 02 Jul 13:57
nirik I will note that often we get people in #fedora who ask which they should use... KDE or Gnome, or something else. The best answer we can give them is to try them out and use what they like best. There is always going to need to be a default tho 02 Jul 13:57
mmcgrath I guess I wonder why we're even talking about what the get.fp.o page should look like since we haven't answered who it should be fore. 02 Jul 13:58
mmcgrath err for 02 Jul 13:58
jwb mmcgrath, we aren't. nirik asked who it should be for :) 02 Jul 13:58
Oxf13 mmagrath: but you already know what you are looking for 02 Jul 13:58
stickster mmcgrath: Which is exactly what notting said :-) 02 Jul 13:58
nirik 02 Jul 13:58
* nirik nods. Thats the deep down question. 02 Jul 13:58
notting 02 Jul 13:58
* notting just uses wget http://download.fedora.... and types the URLs by hand. i don't think we should optimize for that case :) 02 Jul 13:58
mmcgrath and I think Fedora should be for experienced users... and that all of our pages should reflect that :) 02 Jul 13:58
dgilmore stickster: i agree i never go to get-fedora 02 Jul 13:59
jwb mmcgrath, ok. others feel that is too limiting 02 Jul 13:59
mmcgrath what do others feel? We should be for experienced users and new users? 02 Jul 13:59
mmcgrath are we having this discussion now? 02 Jul 13:59
jwb no, i think we said to sort of delay it 02 Jul 14:00
mmcgrath k 02 Jul 14:00
nirik there is also a blurry line if you just say 'new' or experienced... how new is new? 02 Jul 14:00
stickster nirik: Noted, definitely. That's not how one should define an audience. 02 Jul 14:00
stickster So in summary there's more discussion to be had here. 02 Jul 14:02
stickster We have another question 02 Jul 14:02
--- stickster (n=npfrield@fedora/stickster) changed mode: -v nirik 02 Jul 14:02
--- stickster (n=npfrield@fedora/stickster) changed mode: +v _Hicham_ 02 Jul 14:02
dgilmore nirik: most days i still think im a novice user. 02 Jul 14:03
stickster _Hicham_ asks: I have a question about mono, what is the status of mono in Fedora 12? 02 Jul 14:03
stickster _Hicham_: You are now voiced. 02 Jul 14:03
_Hicham_ thanks stickster 02 Jul 14:03
mmcgrath when did that become a board question? 02 Jul 14:03
spot 02 Jul 14:03
* spot wonders why that isn't a Fedora Legal question 02 Jul 14:03
jwb do you mean from a legal perspective? 02 Jul 14:03
dgilmore _Hicham_: AFAIK its not changed from previous releases 02 Jul 14:03
spot but since I'm here... 02 Jul 14:03
_Hicham_ yes, there is a lot of concerns over mono 02 Jul 14:03
dgilmore until the OIN doesnt cover us it remains 02 Jul 14:03
spot There is no change in the legal status of mono. 02 Jul 14:03
stickster The only change we know of are that Tomboy has been replaced in the default Live spin by Gnote to slim down the dependencies 02 Jul 14:04
stickster s/are/is/ <-- bad grammar, sorry 02 Jul 14:04
notting mono is still included, moonlight is still very much not. 02 Jul 14:04
spot So, barring some event that would change that answer, mono will be part of Fedora 12. 02 Jul 14:04
_Hicham_ so we are counting on OIN until there is a change in their policy? 02 Jul 14:04
stickster Despite vehement voices to the contrary, and thank you to mether for shining some light in that regard. 02 Jul 14:04
spot (As stickster points out, it probably won't be on the Default LiveCD due to space reasons) 02 Jul 14:05
notting and it may or may not be on the default 'Fedora' DVD, depending on how those live group decisions trickle down 02 Jul 14:05
stickster _Hicham_: Change in whose policy? 02 Jul 14:05
notting Nushio: as it stands now, gnote would be on the DVD, not tomboy. 02 Jul 14:05
stickster OIN's? 02 Jul 14:05
_Hicham_ rms pointed out lately that mono shouldn't be given by default 02 Jul 14:06
_Hicham_ stickster : yes, OIN's policy 02 Jul 14:06
notting but f-spot is still a default package for the DVD 02 Jul 14:06
spot _Hicham_: RMS is, as usual, entitled to his own opinions. 02 Jul 14:06
spot his opinions do not affect the fact that mono is available under a free license 02 Jul 14:06
_Hicham_ I think that removing it from the DVD would be useful too 02 Jul 14:06
spot (there is also some irony in how RMS decides to vilify patents.) 02 Jul 14:07
_Hicham_ encouring development on the mono platform is risky 02 Jul 14:07
_Hicham_ *encouarging 02 Jul 14:07
spot 02 Jul 14:07
* spot encourages people to research the risks of their own actions individually 02 Jul 14:07
_Hicham_ also, why isn't mono available for RHEL? 02 Jul 14:08
stickster That's not a question for Fedora, is it? 02 Jul 14:08
spot _Hicham_: now you're really asking the wrong group. 02 Jul 14:08
_Hicham_ spot : I am trying to know the legal issues 02 Jul 14:08
stickster _Hicham_: I would encourage you to contact the fedora-legal-list for more information about legal status in Fedora 02 Jul 14:08
stickster RHEL issues are not decided by the Fedora Board. 02 Jul 14:09
stickster We have another question waiting and we're overtime 02 Jul 14:09
--- stickster (n=npfrield@fedora/stickster) changed mode: -v _Hicham_ 02 Jul 14:09
--- stickster (n=npfrield@fedora/stickster) changed mode: +v jmbuser 02 Jul 14:09
stickster Go ahead jmbuser 02 Jul 14:09
stickster Me pastes in case jmbuser is no longer available 02 Jul 14:10
jmbuser Has it been decided that all documentation (including the wiki) is going to be covered by a Creative Commons license? Is this approved by legal and what does it cover? 02 Jul 14:10
stickster oh, thanks :-) 02 Jul 14:10
stickster It's something that quaid is pursuing currently, I believe. 02 Jul 14:10
stickster RH Legal doesn't decide these matters for Fedora, but for what it's worth they are fully supportive of it. 02 Jul 14:10
spot There are no legal roadblocks to moving to a CC license. 02 Jul 14:11
stickster A CC license gives us much greater data interchange with other projects 02 Jul 14:11
spot well, i should say, one of the "free CC licenses" 02 Jul 14:11
stickster Right, CC BY-SA 3.0 is the particular license we're looking at, IIRC 02 Jul 14:11
stickster It has eliminated some of the perceived discrepancies in a previous version 02 Jul 14:11
--- ChanServ (ChanServ@services.) changed mode: +v caillon 02 Jul 14:12
stickster I believe quaid is also working with the RH Docs folks to make sure that a licensing change happens fairly contemporaneously 02 Jul 14:12
jmbuser That clrifies things...thanks 02 Jul 14:12
stickster Thanks for your question jmbuser 02 Jul 14:13
stickster (and previous question askers too) :-) 02 Jul 14:13
--- stickster (n=npfrield@fedora/stickster) changed mode: -v jmbuser 02 Jul 14:13
--- stickster (n=npfrield@fedora/stickster) changed mode: +v Nushio 02 Jul 14:13
stickster Nushio: Did you have a question remaining? 02 Jul 14:13
Nushio I have a question about the default Bluetooth manager. Can it really be changed to something else, or are we stuck with whatever Gnome provides? 02 Jul 14:13
Nushio (this question is towards bluetooth, but the logic could apply to any component) 02 Jul 14:13
mmcgrath 02 Jul 14:14
* mmcgrath believes thats a FESCo question 02 Jul 14:14
stickster I think this is probably outside the Board's purview 02 Jul 14:14
caillon i'm pretty sure that different spins have different bluetooth managers 02 Jul 14:14
dgilmore Nushio: its a fesco issue not a board one 02 Jul 14:14
notting this isn't really a board-level question. i suspect that you'd need to convince the desktop or kde sigs as to the benefits of changing what they use 02 Jul 14:14
Nushio sorry then 02 Jul 14:14
mmcgrath Nushio: no worries, we could do a better job of clarifying what questions belong where. 02 Jul 14:14
stickster mmcgrath: True, maybe you could draft something on the Board IRC page where we point people for these meetings? 02 Jul 14:15
stickster I'd be happy to edit/help 02 Jul 14:15
mmcgrath sure 02 Jul 14:15
stickster Board/IRC 02 Jul 14:15
stickster Eggscellent 02 Jul 14:15
caillon (wow, we list the channel settings on what we give people?) 02 Jul 14:17
stickster Regardless, I think caillon has this right -- not sure what LXDE, XFCE, etc. use for this purpose, but spins are free to create their own capability stacks 02 Jul 14:17
Nushio understood, thanks, and sorry again for asking the board 02 Jul 14:17
stickster caillon: I think that page is slightly out of date -- I used completely different commands for this purpose when setting up the f-b-questions channels. 02 Jul 14:17
stickster Nushio: Thanks for your question! 02 Jul 14:17
stickster I think that does it for the community question queue 02 Jul 14:18
stickster I also wanted to say a big public thank you 02 Jul 14:18
stickster to Chris Tyler 02 Jul 14:18
stickster Harald Hoyer 02 Jul 14:18
stickster Jesse Keating 02 Jul 14:18
stickster Seth Vidal 02 Jul 14:18
stickster for their services to the Board and to the Fedora community. 02 Jul 14:19
notting three cheers for our dearly departed members. don't go too far! 02 Jul 14:19
stickster well-deserving of recognition for the way they constantly looked out for community interests in our meetings and other proceedings 02 Jul 14:19
stickster I think that does it for this meeting then 02 Jul 14:20
stickster Thank you to everyone for coming, and we'll soon get our schedule straightened out for our regular phone meeting. 02 Jul 14:20
stickster Community members: the monthly IRC meeting may change in accordance with that schedule, heads up. I'll make sure to highlight this in next month's announcements. 02 Jul 14:20
* stickster will post the log to the wiki per usual. 02 Jul 14:21
stickster Thank you Board! See you next week. 02 Jul 14:21
stickster </meeting> 02 Jul 14:21

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