From Fedora Project Wiki
| Sparks | <meeting id="Docs Project"> | 02:00 |
|---|---|---|
| -!- Sparks changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Welcome to the Docs Project Meeting - | 02:00 | |
| Agenda: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs_Project_meetings#Agenda_for_Next_Meeting | ||
| Sparks | Roll Call! | 02:00 |
| * Sparks is here | 02:00 | |
| * zoglesby is here | 02:00 | |
| -!- jjmcd [n=jjmcd@75-134-169-186.dhcp.bycy.mi.charter.com] has joined #Fedora-meeting | 02:01 | |
| * rudi is here | 02:02 | |
| -!- stickster_afk is now known as stickster | 02:02 | |
| * jjmcd . | 02:03 | |
| Sparks | zoglesby: Can you handle the log for tonight? | 02:04 |
| zoglesby | I don't have logs... | 02:04 |
| zoglesby | I can scroll and copy and paste | 02:05 |
| zoglesby | unless someone can tell me how to log in irssi real fast | 02:05 |
| -!- stickster is now known as stickster_afk | 02:05 | |
| -!- adamw [n=AdamW@redhat/adamw] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] | 02:06 | |
| Sparks | zoglesby: No, that's how you do it, I think. | 02:06 |
| Sparks | Anyone else for the Docs Meeting? | 02:06 |
| -!- stickster_afk is now known as stickster | 02:06 | |
| zoglesby | Sparks: I can do it then | 02:06 |
| * Sparks wonders where everyone is tonight. | 02:07 | |
| jjmcd | Watching the Wings? | 02:08 |
| Sparks | Maybe... | 02:08 |
| Sparks | Well, let's get started.. | 02:08 |
| * stickster is sorry he's late | 02:08 | |
| stickster | I can handle logs if needed. | 02:08 |
| Sparks | stickster: Be a backup... I think zoglesby needs to practice... :) | 02:09 |
| -!- Sparks changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Docs Project - FAD SELF 2009 <-- ke4qqq | 02:09 | |
| zoglesby | ill do it, but I thought irssi had a log function | 02:09 |
| * stickster is apparently at the mercy of LAG | 02:09 | |
| stickster | Will do | 02:09 |
| Sparks | Well... I don't know where ke4qqq is but I'll talk a little about FAD. | 02:09 |
| stickster | It does, IIRC | 02:09 |
| Sparks | SELF @ Clemson on Jun 13. The day after we will have a Docs FAD. | 02:10 |
| stickster | /RAWLOG open <filename> | 02:10 |
| Sparks | We will be looking heavily at F12 processes and how to improve them. | 02:10 |
| stickster | Yay! | 02:11 |
| Sparks | If you plan on attending please sign up at | 02:11 |
| FAD_SELF_2009 | ||
| * stickster will be there too, flight is not until ~5:30 or 6:00pm | 02:11 | |
| Sparks | Cool | 02:11 |
| Sparks | Does anyone have any questions about SELF or the FAD? | 02:11 |
| zoglesby | is there going to be a conf call number? | 02:11 |
| jjmcd | 2008? | 02:12 |
| Sparks | Yeah, I think so | 02:12 |
| * ke4qqq is here | 02:12 | |
| ke4qqq | but late | 02:12 |
| -!- adamw [n=AdamW@S010600226b8aa2ea.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #fedora-meeting | 02:12 | |
| Sparks | ke4qqq: Anything to add? | 02:12 |
| -!- spoleeba [n=one@fedora/Jef] has joined #fedora-meeting | 02:12 | |
| stickster | Who's responsible for setting up the call stuff? | 02:13 |
| stickster | i.e. hardare | 02:13 |
| ke4qqq | nothing here - you covered most of it | 02:13 |
| stickster | *hardware, even | 02:13 |
| ke4qqq | stickster: I am | 02:13 |
| stickster | Do you need anything that I can help provide? | 02:13 |
| ke4qqq | ianweller is also bringing his | 02:13 |
| ke4qqq | yourself | 02:13 |
| ke4qqq | and that's it | 02:13 |
| stickster | :-) done! | 02:13 |
| -!- asgeirf_ [n=asgeirf@124-171-209-152.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Remote closed the | 02:13 | |
| connection] | ||
| Sparks | Okay, anything else? | 02:14 |
| ke4qqq | eof from me | 02:14 |
| Sparks | ke4qqq: I'm assuming you'll send out an email or put something on the wiki about how | 02:14 |
| to remotely attend. | ||
| ke4qqq | yeah I need to remmeber the conf number for docs | 02:14 |
| ke4qqq | but yes we'll do that | 02:15 |
| Sparks | 2008 | 02:15 |
| -!- jsmith [n=jsmith@asterisk/training-and-documentation-guru/jsmith] has joined #fedora-meeting | 02:15 | |
| ke4qqq | in the next day or so | 02:15 |
| Sparks | Cool | 02:15 |
| Sparks | Okay, moving on... | 02:15 |
| -!- Sparks changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Docs Project - Status on | 02:15 | |
| CC license discussion. <--quaid | ||
| Sparks | Last week we started discussing changing our licensing from OPL to CC-BY-SA. | 02:15 |
| Sparks | I don't think quaid is with us tonight, though, so I don't know what the status is. | 02:15 |
| Sparks | Does anyone have any questions about the change? | 02:16 |
| stickster | Were we waiting for something to be resolved regarding compatibility with internal | 02:16 |
| RH teams? | ||
| Sparks | kinda | 02:16 |
| * stickster not sure what quaid is meant to answer, and would be happy to send some email | 02:16 | |
| around to check on stuff | ||
| Sparks | I think we were waiting to make sure everything was okay | 02:17 |
| -!- asgeirf_ [n=asgeirf@124-171-209-152.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #fedora-meeting | 02:17 | |
| Sparks | quaid said he was going to run with it within the RH community. | 02:17 |
| ke4qqq | I think we were also waiting on which specific version of cc-by-sa RH Legal was going | 02:17 |
| to bless | ||
| stickster | k | 02:17 |
| stickster | Yeah, I'm sure there was some further Legal review required in there. | 02:17 |
| Sparks | yeah... okay, anything else? | 02:18 |
| * stickster stands back and lets everyone do their thang | 02:18 | |
| Sparks | okay, moving on... | 02:18 |
| -!- Sparks changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Docs Project - Status on Release Notes <-- | 02:18 | |
| ryanlerch & jjmcd | ||
| Sparks | jjmcd: So what's the status on the RN? | 02:18 |
| jjmcd | We got an update today I think, still need to check more to be sure it isn't there in | 02:18 |
| different words | ||
| jjmcd | but all on docs.fp.o | 02:18 |
| Sparks | excellent. | 02:19 |
| jjmcd | If change only en-US will make it to docs.fp.o for release | 02:19 |
| Sparks | Yeah, I saw the update come through earlier. | 02:19 |
| jjmcd | but rest will get through on an update | 02:19 |
| jjmcd | we are now in a position where we can easily produce an update rpm | 02:19 |
| Sparks | Have you already pushed the RPM up? | 02:19 |
| jjmcd | from like a week ago | 02:19 |
| stickster | That's the standard GA one, right? | 02:20 |
| stickster | 11.0.0-2? | 02:20 |
| jjmcd | Yeah | 02:20 |
| jjmcd | 11.0.1 I thinlk | 02:20 |
| jjmcd | 11.0.1 I think | 02:20 |
| stickster | Ooo | 02:20 |
| stickster | That's the zero day? Includes L10n? | 02:20 |
| jjmcd | yes | 02:20 |
| stickster | Wow, bonzer | 02:20 |
| jjmcd | but if we have a REAL zero day | 02:20 |
| jjmcd | I've also been working on linking to reduce space | 02:21 |
| jjmcd | Recognized some odd things with yelp, still not sure whats going on there | 02:21 |
| jjmcd | yelp documentation seems to be lacking | 02:21 |
| jjmcd | We're not seeing icons in note, tip, etc | 02:22 |
| jjmcd | But that appears to be yelp's to do, all we do is say, e.g. <tip> | 02:22 |
| stickster | jjmcd: You and I probably need to collaborate on that so I can help you keep your | 02:22 |
| hair | ||
| jjmcd | Works fine on 10, not on 11. But I'm not 100% certain that I've found all of yelp's | 02:23 |
| tentacles | ||
| jjmcd | stickster, sounds like a plan | 02:23 |
| Sparks | jjmcd: Anything else? | 02:23 |
| jjmcd | No | 02:23 |
| Sparks | anyone? | 02:23 |
| -!- Cheshirc [n=Sam@unaffiliated/cheshirc] has joined #fedora-meeting | 02:23 | |
| zodbot | Announcement from my owner (stickster): FESCo nominee town hall meeting at 0200 UTC | 02:24 |
| (~100 minutes from now) -- http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Elections#IRC_Town_Halls | ||
| stickster | Me realizes "need" is a lot of assumption, maybe "could" is better :-) | 02:24 |
| -!- asgeirf_ [n=asgeirf@124-171-209-152.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Remote closed the | 02:24 | |
| connection] | ||
| jjmcd | '-) | 02:24 |
| Sparks | Okay, moving on... | 02:24 |
| -!- Sparks changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Docs Project - Status on Release | 02:24 | |
| Announcement <-- Sparks | ||
| -!- asgeirf_ [n=asgeirf@124-171-209-152.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #fedora-meeting | 02:24 | |
| Sparks | Thanks to everyone who helped out with the Announcement. | 02:24 |
| Sparks | It has been tweaked, pounded, deleted, restored, and edited. | 02:25 |
| Sparks | I think we are done with it. :) There are links to the RNs and to the Installation | 02:25 |
| Guide at the bottom so it's good for us. | ||
| jjmcd | I just wish you guys could hear George Dobbs, G3RJV, talk. | 02:25 |
| Sparks | jjmcd: Freq? | 02:25 |
| -!- joat [n=joat@ip70-174-79-200.hr.hr.cox.net] has joined #fedora-meeting | 02:25 | |
| jjmcd | He's a British minister and sounds just like that | 02:25 |
| Sparks | :) | 02:25 |
| jjmcd | FDIM ;-) | 02:26 |
| joat | whew! | 02:26 |
| Sparks | Does anyone have any questions or comments on the Announcement? | 02:26 |
| Sparks | Okay, moving on... | 02:26 |
| -!- Sparks changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Docs Project - Status on Installation Guide | 02:27 | |
| <-- ke4qqq & rudi | ||
| stickster | Did anyone let the translators know that they could run with it and abandon the | 02:27 |
| top part at will? | ||
| * stickster can't remember whether he remembered to fire something off on that or not. | 02:27 | |
| -!- ldimaggi_ [n=ldimaggi@pool-96-252-14-181.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #fedora-meeting | 02:27 | |
| Sparks | Ummm... not from this office | 02:27 |
| jsmith | I thought it was at the list... | 02:27 |
| -!- ldimaggi_ is now known as ldimaggi_home | 02:27 | |
| jsmith | s/at the/on the/ | 02:27 |
| jjmcd | I thouhgt I saw something on l10n | 02:27 |
| rudi | stickster | 02:27 |
| * stickster is busier than a one-legged man in a butt-kickin' contest and doesn't recall | 02:27 | |
| rudi | Ooops - I see you were commenting on the last topic, NM | 02:28 |
| rudi | Install Guide is in translation - Italian now nearly complete | 02:28 |
| jjmcd | rudi, thanks for helping Claudia | 02:29 |
| rudi | Whole stack of changes and revisions to make after release :) | 02:29 |
| stickster | Sparks: I don't see it on fedora-trans-list, could you send something out? | 02:29 |
| rudi | jjmcd - NP. I like to lie in wait for new translators ;) | 02:29 |
| Sparks | stickster: yeah, I will | 02:29 |
| stickster | disco | 02:29 |
| * stickster notes that the top part is only (barely, arguably) funny in English and | 02:30 | |
| translators are free to come up with their own material. | ||
| Sparks | rudi and ke4qqq: Can we get the final draft of HTML and PDFs up on docs.fp.o no later | 02:30 |
| than Sunday? | ||
| rudi | Sparks - NP | 02:30 |
| rudi | Already good to go. | 02:31 |
| Sparks | rudi: Cool. When you figure out where the PDF is going please let Admin know so they | 02:31 |
| can add it to the cache list. | ||
| Sparks | rudi: Excellent. | 02:31 |
| rudi | NP | 02:31 |
| Sparks | Okay, anything else for the Installation Guide? | 02:31 |
| rudi | Nope :) | 02:32 |
| stickster | Thank you for working on that, guys | 02:32 |
| Sparks | Okay... Now I need to bring up a topic that... well, is a little scary. | 02:33 |
| Sparks | If you are sensitive to that kind of stuff, you should look away. | 02:33 |
| -!- Sparks changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Docs Project - Fedora 12... Only 152 days | 02:33 | |
| to GA... <-- Sparks | ||
| Sparks | Yes... Only 152 days until Fedora 12 is released. | 02:33 |
| Sparks | and yes, we need to be looking at this now. | 02:33 |
| * jjmcd thought he cold wait until FUDcon to kick off F12 RN's | 02:34 | |
| stickster | Yay F12! Last key on the keyboard! | 02:34 |
| Sparks | jjmcd: Actually the RNs for F12 are already started! | 02:34 |
| -!- mdomsch [n=mdomsch@cpe-70-124-62-55.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #fedora-meeting | 02:34 | |
| jjmcd | Yeah I saw that | 02:34 |
| Sparks | stickster: What happens with F13? Are we skipping it for superstitious reasons? | 02:34 |
| stickster | Nope, it's going to be named either "Keating" or "Eamon" | 02:35 |
| rudi | Sparks - the USAF did :) | 02:35 |
| stickster | Wait, that might not work. | 02:35 |
| jjmcd | That will certainly be cornfusing on IRC | 02:35 |
| stickster | Oops, I forgot about the whole voting thing :-) | 02:35 |
| Sparks | stickster: Oh we can make that happen. | 02:35 |
| rudi | How about F13 Stealth :) | 02:35 |
| stickster | When f13's IRC starts buzzing him 24/7 I'm going to laugh, and laugh... | 02:36 |
| Sparks | Oh that is good... | 02:36 |
| Sparks | Yeah, he's going to have to change | 02:36 |
| zoglesby | Sparks: what would you like to mention about this? Or just trying to wake us up and | 02:36 |
| get ready? | ||
| stickster | I remember when he was a different nick, we'll see if he goes back to it. More | 02:36 |
| deponent sayeth not. | ||
| jjmcd | I figured maybe that was his retirement release | 02:36 |
| Sparks | So here's the real scary part... | 02:37 |
| Sparks | http://poelstra.fedorapeople.org/schedules/f-12/f-12-summary-tasks.html | 02:37 |
| Sparks | And here are things I want to work on... | 02:37 |
| Sparks | Docs_decisions_for_F12 <-- we'll be working on this during FAD and we'll have answers | 02:37 |
| then | ||
| Sparks | The Release Notes will be done in Publican | 02:38 |
| stickster | http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs_decisions_for_F12 | 02:38 |
| jjmcd | uitstekend! | 02:38 |
| Sparks | as well as all the guides... | 02:38 |
| Sparks | Okay, you can stop laughing now... I know we've said that every release for the past | 02:38 |
| few... but I'm serious now... kinda | ||
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| Sparks | Release Notes will be done early and will be available by Oct 15 (not including | 02:39 |
| zero-day) <-- this one is for jjmcd | ||
| jjmcd | With no alpha, are beta rn's going to be in n languages | 02:39 |
| Sparks | We are going to have to get this stuff squared away. We got "lucky" by F11 being | 02:39 |
| pushed. | ||
| * stickster thinks it's vital that the team center on one toolset. | 02:40 | |
| Sparks | And not just us... folks were still providing changes. | 02:40 |
| Sparks | not good | 02:40 |
| Sparks | stickster: yes! | 02:40 |
| Sparks | There will be no zero-day changes | 02:40 |
| Sparks | Okay... maybe this is wishful thinking... | 02:40 |
| Sparks | but we had way too many changes that seemed to trickle in | 02:41 |
| jjmcd | And I think we are just about there. Didn't someone have the f-d-u stuff ported, just | 02:41 |
| waiting to push? | ||
| Sparks | we need to get folks on the ball with this. Cattle prod or something. | 02:41 |
| zoglesby | jjmcd: I think so | 02:41 |
| jjmcd | Sparks, well, having ticklers on the schedule for notes to the lists will help | 02:41 |
| zoglesby | Rlandmann did them | 02:41 |
| Sparks | yes... and that will be something I'm going to talk about in a few minutes. | 02:41 |
| jjmcd | That figures - that guy don't sleep | 02:41 |
| Sparks | Translation issues must be taken into consideration | 02:41 |
| Sparks | We had complaints from the translation teams and I understand their frustration. We | 02:42 |
| need to work with them on how to not make things harder for them. | ||
| -!- Nirmal [n=npathak@nat/redhat-in/x-be1f7bcbcd369df9] has quit ["Leaving"] | 02:42 | |
| jjmcd | Sparks, I think we need to be a lot more proactive on communicating to | 02:42 |
| fedora-trans-list | ||
| jjmcd | as well as restructuring rn's | 02:43 |
| -!- neverho0d [n=psv@62.68.142.34] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] | 02:43 | |
| Sparks | And finally... All guides, other than Installation Guide, should be in Publican and | 02:43 |
| be pushed to docs.fp.o in HTML and PDF formats and should be packaged. | ||
| zoglesby | this is all stuff thats going to be hammered out at FAD right? | 02:43 |
| stickster | jjmcd: +1. | 02:44 |
| Sparks | jjmcd: Yes! | 02:44 |
| stickster | A lot of it is just sending periodic emails, a few times a week, and anytime you | 02:44 |
| want to change something. | ||
| stickster | (during the freeze, that is) | 02:44 |
| stickster | And more, it really should be soliciting opinions and getting +/-1 from the L10n | 02:44 |
| community. | ||
| Sparks | stickster: And thank them a lot! They are doing a tough job. | 02:45 |
| stickster | no kidding | 02:45 |
| stickster | I don't know how they do it. Seriously. | 02:45 |
| jjmcd | zoglesby, I am expecting you guys to work hard rather than spending all your time | 02:45 |
| eating fried chicken and greens | ||
| stickster | mmmffwha-huh? | 02:45 |
| * jjmcd won't be at SELF :-( | 02:45 | |
| Sparks | fried chicken??? Where? | 02:45 |
| stickster | If there is not some <expletive> good fried chicken in my belly on Sunday I will | 02:45 |
| be an unhappy camper. | ||
| stickster | Or BBQ. | 02:46 |
| zoglesby | jjmcd: I will not be there, to much money to fly from spain | 02:46 |
| stickster | I can be flexible. | 02:46 |
| Sparks | stickster: You can't get good BBQ over there... | 02:46 |
| Sparks | you have to go east of I-95 in NC | 02:46 |
| jjmcd | I was looking forward to ke4qqq's en-SC.po tho | 02:46 |
| * Sparks is hoping to stop by Gaffney, though. | 02:46 | |
| stickster | jjmcd: heh | 02:47 |
| stickster | OK -- back to Sparks' last comment about packaging | 02:47 |
| stickster | I like the idea of dropping the whole yelp/OMF thing and going with simple, | 02:47 |
| installable HTML that appears as a menu entry | ||
| stickster | But we can hash this out at SELF I guess :-) | 02:48 |
| rudi | +1 for HTML; which will be more KDE-friendly too | 02:48 |
| jjmcd | I like the UI for yelp, the html is kind of a secret, altho a menu would help | 02:48 |
| rudi | (or KDE-friendly at all, in fact ;) | 02:48 |
| Sparks | +1 | 02:49 |
| * jjmcd hadn't considered KDE | 02:49 | |
| jjmcd | od XFCE | 02:49 |
| stickster | rudi: Interestingly, I had a special KDE khelpcenter installation handled in | 02:49 |
| fedora-doc-utils (originally docs-common) | ||
| jjmcd | s/od/or | 02:49 |
| rudi | jjmcd - nobody ever does :( | 02:49 |
| stickster | But I couldn't get anyone to help me make sure I was Doing It Right | 02:49 |
| rudi | No dirty GNOME on my machines! :) | 02:49 |
| stickster | /KICKBAN rudi | 02:49 |
| stickster | You'll have to forgive him, he lives in the upside down part of the world | 02:50 |
| rudi | lolz | 02:50 |
| * stickster apologetically lets Sparks get on with it | 02:50 | |
| Sparks | No... I did that for one reason... spark discussion! | 02:51 |
| zoglesby | stickster: you are mighty off topic today... | 02:51 |
| jjmcd | Do we want to package pdf? And why not pdf instead of xml? | 02:51 |
| jjmcd | errr html | 02:51 |
| zoglesby | I think the pdf looks better | 02:51 |
| Sparks | pdf is great for portable... html is better for searching via google or such | 02:51 |
| Sparks | So I'd rather have... both! | 02:52 |
| stickster | HTML is also more searchable from a variety of indexing utilities the person may | 02:52 |
| be using | ||
| stickster | Two copies seems wasteful to me. | 02:52 |
| jjmcd | I guess they should be packaged separately | 02:52 |
| zoglesby | stickster: good point I don't use indexing tools | 02:52 |
| stickster | Nothing wrong with that | 02:52 |
| * stickster points to diveintopython-* RPMs as examples | 02:53 | |
| jjmcd | Still, 1428 seems like a lot of rpms | 02:54 |
| Sparks | Well... just note that we aren't going to have much down time for the F12 release. | 02:54 |
| -!- Netsplit bartol.freenode.net <-> irc.freenode.net quits: ivazquez, davej, so_solid_moo | 02:54 | |
| stickster | jjmcd: wha-huh? | 02:54 |
| jjmcd | 17 docs * 42 langs * 2 formats | 02:54 |
| stickster | Ugh. | 02:54 |
| -!- Netsplit over, joins: ivazquez, so_solid_moo, davej | 02:54 | |
| Sparks | but we can continue this conversation on F12 in coming weeks | 02:54 |
| Sparks | Wow... That's a lot of packages | 02:55 |
| stickster | jjmcd: I could see packaging all langs together | 02:55 |
| Sparks | should we have them approved separately? | 02:55 |
| stickster | *choke* | 02:55 |
| jjmcd | Docs needs to grow some packagers | 02:55 |
| zoglesby | I am slowly learning | 02:56 |
| stickster | There is a special RPM variable that lets you drop locales; if you guys got with | 02:56 |
| the RPM developers you might be able to work something out the same way with | ||
| documentation RPMs. | ||
| Sparks | Yeah, I think we are going to work on that @ Clemson | 02:56 |
| zoglesby | but its all been haskeel stuff | 02:56 |
| rudi | packaging all langs together would make for some big packages :) IIRC, over 100MB for | 02:56 |
| the Install Guide | ||
| stickster | You guys know that /usr/share/locale has the translated messages for everything | 02:56 |
| you install, right? | ||
| stickster | There are ways to silently drop out all the locales except your current one when | 02:57 |
| you install a RPM package | ||
| stickster | Cuts down on disk space when it's tight. | 02:57 |
| stickster | Actually, the more I think about it.... | 02:57 |
| stickster | I think that we ought to concentrate on establishing a presence where people can | 02:58 |
| manually install the documentation RPM they want. | ||
| stickster | PackageKit makes it drop-dead easy point-and-click. | 02:58 |
| jjmcd | exactly | 02:58 |
| stickster | We do *not* want to put 1428 more RPMs in Fedora. | 02:58 |
| stickster | That's just silly. | 02:58 |
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| stickster | As always, this is just my $0.02 | 02:58 |
| stickster | I would think that we should put real muscle during the next 30 days after release | 02:59 |
| into getting Zikula off the ground. | ||
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| Sparks | Yes! | 02:59 |
| stickster | And one of the purposes that could serve would be to house the new docs.fp.o | 02:59 |
| stickster | Including "pretty-fied" access to the new docs RPMs. | 02:59 |
| stickster | There are a number of other things people want out of the Zikula CMS | 03:00 |
| jjmcd | That would be way cool | 03:00 |
| stickster | But none of it's going to happen unless we make it happen. | 03:00 |
| stickster | Our current web publishing sucks rocks. | 03:00 |
| jjmcd | I didn't say that | 03:00 |
| stickster | haha | 03:00 |
| stickster | It was "good enough" (for some value thereof) for Fedora Core 3, but this | 03:01 |
| community has come a *long* way since then. | ||
| stickster | We've got to have something that is easier to run, easier to administer, and | 03:01 |
| easier to understand. | ||
| zoglesby | are we still wating on packages or testing? | 03:01 |
| Sparks | I think some parts are still waiting to be packaged | 03:02 |
| stickster | ke4qqq: Any insight here? | 03:02 |
| stickster | Can we make it a point *before* SELF to establish what's left to be done, and try | 03:02 |
| and do as much as possible of it there, after the decision tasks? | ||
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| Sparks | Yeah, I'll get with ke4qqq and get a list | 03:03 |
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| -!- jwb__ is now known as jwb | 03:04 | |
| Sparks | Okay, anything else on these topics? | 03:04 |
| * stickster is really hot to get *something* off the ground so we can get to work on this | 03:04 | |
| zoglesby | indeed | 03:04 |
| stickster | I installed it on my local box and tried it out, it was pretty easy to run and I | 03:05 |
| was thoroughly impressed. | ||
| Sparks | Okay, let's move on to the last few topics. | 03:05 |
| -!- Sparks changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Docs Project - Bugzilla Component Changes | 03:05 | |
| Sparks | I sent an email out to the list earlier today. | 03:05 |
| Sparks | It contains a list of all the components of Docs in BZ | 03:06 |
| jjmcd | wits a lot of docs which would be really cool to have | 03:06 |
| Sparks | At next week's meeting we'll figure out which ones to dump. | 03:06 |
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| jjmcd | Sparks, I smell an opportunity | 03:06 |
| Sparks | jjmcd: Yes and this is a good time to pull those out, dust them off, and get some of | 03:06 |
| our new members involved. | ||
| jjmcd | exactly | 03:07 |
| * mchua apologizes for tardiness | 03:07 | |
| stickster | mchua!!!!1!! | 03:07 |
| zoglesby | what bug do you speak of? | 03:07 |
| jjmcd | It can be pretty low pressure but with a lot of flexibility | 03:07 |
| Sparks | zoglesby: Not a bug... the components that break out the docs on BZ | 03:07 |
| zoglesby | I think i found the email | 03:08 |
| jjmcd | BZ = military speak for Bugzilla, but you knew that | 03:08 |
| * zoglesby looks at my pants | 03:08 | |
| zoglesby | still in the military... | 03:08 |
| jjmcd | AF might not talk the same as the Navy tho | 03:08 |
| Sparks | zoglesby: I didn't realize the AF was still considered a military group. | 03:09 |
| zoglesby | nope I don't go to the head | 03:09 |
| zoglesby | I am not going to defend them... | 03:09 |
| Sparks | okay, I'm not harrassing my AF buddies now | 03:10 |
| jjmcd | Why do I get the feeling that zoglesby ain't gonna be a lifer | 03:10 |
| Sparks | SO, who NEEDS/WANTS a BZ component for their project? | 03:10 |
| zoglesby | I do | 03:10 |
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| zoglesby | I have been working on readme-burning-isos to make it foss only | 03:10 |
| * Sparks thought that was already in BZ | 03:11 | |
| jjmcd | I think there is a component for that | 03:11 |
| Sparks | zoglesby: I can assign it to you. | 03:11 |
| rudi | zoglesby - when you're done with those, can you shoot me the updated verson so I can | 03:12 |
| incorporate it into my Publicanized version of the doc? | ||
| stickster | zoglesby: Hang on, did you mean you're *removing* instructions for how people can | 03:12 |
| use their existing proprietary software to try, and switch to, Fedora? | ||
| rudi | (Heh... or not...) | 03:12 |
| zoglesby | nero and such are not parts of windows | 03:12 |
| jjmcd | stickster, I think a lot of what was there was old stuff | 03:12 |
| zoglesby | and you cant include every application out there | 03:13 |
| stickster | zoglesby: You're absolutely right, but Nero is also shipped with a *ton* of | 03:13 |
| hardware by default | ||
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| connection] | ||
| stickster | zoglesby: Can you include a single section for "Other software," where you try to | 03:13 |
| make instructions that are generic enough to work for most other apps that people | ||
| can't get for free? | ||
| stickster | Many people will have pre-installed software from OEMs and we don't want to leave | 03:14 |
| them out in the cold | ||
| zoglesby | we talked about this before in #docs but we can talk about it again there after this | 03:14 |
| rudi | True - it's rare to see a Windows box out there *without* Nero or Sonic on it... | 03:14 |
| jjmcd | Of course, with newer versions of Windows you don't need that stuff anymore, and I'm | 03:14 |
| not so sure I've seen it with any recent drives | ||
| stickster | ok, we don't need to derail here | 03:14 |
| * stickster & | 03:14 | |
| stickster | jjmcd: good point | 03:14 |
| * stickster is happy as long as we can cover whatever comes free with other big-market-share OS | 03:14 | |
| Sparks | zoglesby: Would you like tickets for that to go to you? | 03:15 |
| stickster | and some appropriate free aps | 03:15 |
| stickster | *apps | 03:15 |
| zoglesby | indeed | 03:15 |
| zoglesby | to both of you... | 03:15 |
| Sparks | Okay... | 03:15 |
| Sparks | zoglesby: Do you have an editor? | 03:16 |
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| zoglesby | an editor? like emacs? or a person? | 03:16 |
| Sparks | a person | 03:17 |
| Sparks | If not... I'll put myself as QA | 03:17 |
| zoglesby | not that I know of | 03:17 |
| Sparks | ok | 03:17 |
| stickster | yay Emacs! | 03:17 |
| Sparks | We haven't done that in a while. | 03:17 |
| * Sparks is proud of stickster for standing up for Emacs on FLOSS Weekly | 03:18 | |
| Sparks | :) | 03:18 |
| zoglesby | indeed again | 03:18 |
| zoglesby | emacs comes up a lot of that show | 03:18 |
| Sparks | okay... anything else on the BZ stuff? | 03:18 |
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| -!- Sparks changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Docs Project - Calendar | 03:19 | |
| Sparks | Okay... I want a calendar. | 03:19 |
| zoglesby | me to | 03:19 |
| Sparks | I'm thinking about just posting a ical file, or something like that, to docs.fp.o and | 03:20 |
| giving everyone read access. | ||
| Sparks | Would that be helpful? | 03:20 |
| Sparks | It would be the Docs calendar... helpful reminders of deadlines, meetings, events, | 03:20 |
| etc. | ||
| zoglesby | works for me | 03:20 |
| zoglesby | but ideally something with controlled write access would be nice | 03:21 |
| jjmcd | Why not in git so anyone can maintain it | 03:21 |
| stickster | eventually to be subsumed by Zikula also :-) | 03:21 |
| Sparks | jjmcd: We could. I'm trying to come up with a solution | 03:21 |
| Sparks | Zikula has a calendaring function... | 03:21 |
| jjmcd | If Zikula is doing it for us, then maybe a wiki page in the interim | 03:22 |
| Sparks | jjmcd: The only problem with a wiki page is that it won't incorporate into a calendar | 03:22 |
| I automatically stare at daily | ||
| * Sparks thinks this would be a similar problem | 03:23 | |
| Sparks | I mean, there are already release calendars out there that I forget to look at. | 03:23 |
| stickster | don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good. | 03:23 |
| stickster | An iCal on a site is a start | 03:23 |
| stickster | and can probably be imported to Zikula later | 03:23 |
| Sparks | Any other ideas? | 03:24 |
| zoglesby | buy google and open source google apps? | 03:24 |
| stickster | heh | 03:25 |
| jjmcd | google calendar sucks swanp water | 03:25 |
| Sparks | Whose to say it isn't open source... has anyone asked? | 03:25 |
| stickster | It's not | 03:25 |
| * Sparks likes google calendar | 03:25 | |
| stickster | The API is open, that's it. | 03:25 |
| Sparks | Okay... so I'm going to work on an iCal and attempt to figure out the best way of | 03:25 |
| doing it | ||
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| Sparks | Okay, moving on... | 03:26 |
| -!- Sparks changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Docs Project - New Guide - Where's the | 03:26 | |
| source? | ||
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| timed out)] | ||
| Sparks | To help people get to our source files I want to build a small guide that helps point | 03:27 |
| people to where they can obtain source files. | ||
| -!- mchua_ is now known as mchua | 03:28 | |
| Sparks | It's on the wiki right now. If anyone would like to adopt this and move it into | 03:28 |
| Publican please let me knwo. | ||
| Sparks | It would be an excellent project for a new member | 03:28 |
| * stickster wonders if Publican may not be necessary for this one, since the need for formal | 03:28 | |
| publication is probably pretty low | ||
| Sparks | stickster: My want was to get it on docs.fp.o | 03:29 |
| zoglesby | keep it on the wiki? | 03:29 |
| stickster | Yes | 03:29 |
| Sparks | But it could be kept on the wiki... it's just easier to get buried there | 03:29 |
| stickster | Because the wiki is more or less the center for development efforts | 03:29 |
| Sparks | and forgotten | 03:29 |
| stickster | We could solve that with clever linking though :-) | 03:29 |
| stickster | Essentially, no document on the wiki is important unless you do that. | 03:30 |
| stickster | What makes wiki documents *not* forgotten is that you refer to it often :-) | 03:30 |
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| * stickster notes that there is a landing target he just found on the wiki: | 03:30 | |
| http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Development | ||
| stickster | I'd *totally* link to this new "Get the Source, Luke" page from there. | 03:30 |
| Sparks | Cool | 03:31 |
| stickster | that Development page is also linked from here: | 03:31 |
| stickster | http://redhat.com/developers/ | 03:31 |
| Sparks | I'm good with keeping it on the wiki as long as it stays visable | 03:31 |
| stickster | I think if you publicize its existence, you won't have any problems with that ;-) | 03:32 |
| Sparks | Cool | 03:32 |
| stickster | Plenty of people will start linking to it, blogging, etc. | 03:32 |
| Sparks | Any questions or comments? | 03:32 |
| stickster | It's so obvious, it's a wonder we don't have it yet! | 03:32 |
| zoglesby | and if we are wrong we move it later | 03:32 |
| stickster | Sure, nothing's written in stone in the end. | 03:32 |
| stickster | I just think moving things to Publican makes them less likely to be contributed to | 03:33 |
| by people outside this group | ||
| Sparks | stickster: yeah, it just hit me the other day... It's almost like you were speaking | 03:33 |
| to me on a subconscious level | ||
| stickster | That's OK for formal docs that need intense scrutiny | 03:33 |
| Sparks | Okay, let's keep it on the wiki | 03:33 |
| Sparks | and do some linking | 03:33 |
| zoglesby | it would be helpful for other to add stuff, we are bound to forget someones project | 03:34 |
| * Sparks makes a note to blog about it | 03:34 | |
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| Sparks | anything else on this? | 03:36 |
| Sparks | okay... last thing | 03:36 |
| -!- Sparks changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Docs Project - Go over task table | 03:36 | |
| Sparks | I want to make this task table more comprehensive and complete. | 03:37 |
| Sparks | right now we have task lists and tables all over the place and they aren't being | 03:37 |
| updated | ||
| Sparks | Please take a look at the table and update it if you have something on there. | 03:37 |
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| Sparks | Anyone have any questions? | 03:38 |
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| #fedora-meeting | ||
| Sparks | Okay, does anyone have anything else about anything? | 03:39 |
| stickster | heh | 03:39 |
| mchua | Sparks: I'm also trying (now that I've read through a BZ tutorial) the "what if we | 03:39 |
| used the BZ project-tracking component" experiment | ||
| mchua | on the theory that it may be easier to keep up with one bz instance than with N | 03:40 |
| separate wiki tables (either that or I'll just form the habit of actually using | ||
| bookmarks) | ||
| Sparks | That's an idea | 03:40 |
| mchua | and was curious if anyone had any thoughts on the notion (do people not like keeping | 03:40 |
| tasks in bz? have wikitables worked really, really well before?) | ||
| Sparks | Maybe if we turned "nag" on in BZ it would be better. | 03:41 |
| mchua | what would that do? autoemail you when tickets update? | 03:42 |
| Sparks | I think it emails you weekly with tasks that you have open | 03:43 |
| mchua | Ooh. Handy. | 03:43 |
| Sparks | Yeah | 03:43 |
| * stickster wonders who gets lined up against the wall and shot first when every Red Hat | 03:44 | |
| engineer sees 328 new BZ emails every Monday morning | ||
| stickster | Thankfully, I'm remote. But there are a lot of people in the Westford office that | 03:44 |
| I like, and would miss! | ||
| Sparks | stickster: I think it's a summary if I remember correctly | 03:44 |
| stickster | o_O | 03:44 |
| stickster | Can such a feature be opt-in? | 03:45 |
| Sparks | I think you get a single email, weekly, with a list of your current tickets | 03:45 |
| Sparks | I don't remember | 03:45 |
| stickster | mchua: I'm in favor of simplify | 03:46 |
| stickster | See right there? I could have typed "simplicity" but "simplify" was SHORTER. | 03:46 |
| zoglesby | lol | 03:46 |
| stickster | Historically we had a tough time getting Docs people to dig BZ | 03:47 |
| stickster | But this is a very different Docs group these days. | 03:47 |
| ricky | If you're thinking bugzilla for task tracking, have you looked at trac? | 03:47 |
| stickster | ricky: I think the idea was that if other people are already filing docs bugs in | 03:47 |
| BZ, what about tracking there too. | ||
| zoglesby | we have a trac instance for every doc on fh.o | 03:47 |
| stickster | Yeah, and that could be disabled and people diverted to BZ if we like | 03:48 |
| ricky | Ah. Is the trac instance usually linked from the doc? | 03:48 |
| stickster | Not yet | 03:48 |
| * mchua notes that based on http://www.bugzilla.org/docs/2.20/html/whining.html and | 03:49 | |
| http://www.bugzilla.org/docs/tip/en/html/groups.html, it seems like people can opt-in to bz | ||
| whining. attempting now. | ||
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| Sparks | mchua: Let's finish this conversation over in #fedora-docs | 03:50 |
| * mchua nods | 03:50 | |
| Sparks | Okay, anything else before we spill over into hour three? | 03:50 |
| Sparks | 5 | 03:51 |
| Sparks | 4 | 03:51 |
| Sparks | 3 | 03:51 |
| Sparks | 2 | 03:51 |
| Sparks | 1 | 03:51 |
| Sparks | Thanks everyone for coming! | 03:51 |
| Sparks | </meeting> | 03:51 |