QA/Meetings/20121015

Attendees

• adamw (107)
• tflink (73)
• kparal (42)
• jreznik (28)
• Viking-Ice (24)
• dan408- (13)
• zodbot (8)
• mkrizek (6)
• jskladan (5)
• nirik (4)
• brunowolff (4)
• pschindl (3)
• jsmith (2)
• Southern_Gentlem (1)
• Martix_ (1)
• Cerlyn (1)
• satellit_e (1)
• maxamillion (1)

Agenda

• Previous meeting follow-up
• Fedora 18 Beta status / mini blocker review
• Open floor

Previous meeting follow-up

• adamw to consider revisions to 'kickstart delivery method' criterion - Adam still didn't get enough round tuits, sorry
• tflink to ask other interested parties (anaconda team, fesco...) to look over the beta criteria and see if there's anything they feel should be dialled down - Tim posted a thread that got some responses but it went down a detour, we will try again

Fedora 18 Beta status / mini blocker review

• F18 Beta TC4 landed Saturday, comes with a regression in NetworkManager
• New upgrade tool is still not testable so far as we know
• We agreed that as new upgrade tool is still not complete, QA does not recommend freezing for Beta at this time

Mini blocker review

• #864981 was left undetermined until further data could be obtained
• #866115 was accepted as a blocker under the automatic partitioning criterion
• #866486 was accepted as a blocker under the update install criterion
• #866434 was left undetermined until further data could be obtained
• #866441 was left undetermined until further data could be obtained
• #866519 was left undetermined until further data could be obtained

Open floor

N/A

Action items

• tflink try again with asking other teams to review the updated release criteria
• adamw to update fesco freeze ticket

IRC Log

adamw	#startmeeting fedora-qa	15:00
zodbot	Meeting started Mon Oct 15 15:00:05 2012 UTC. The chair is adamw. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.	15:00
zodbot	Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.	15:00
adamw	#meetingname fedora-qa	15:00
zodbot	The meeting name has been set to 'fedora-qa'	15:00
adamw	#topic roll call	15:00
adamw	call me a roll!	15:00
* kparal arrives late		15:00
* satellit_e listening		15:00
* mkrizek is here		15:00
* maxamillion is here		15:01
* Cerlyn watches		15:01
* Southern_Gentlem [icks up a roll and says hello adamw		15:01
* Martix_ waives from Eiffel Tower on FUDCon Paris!		15:01
* brunowolff is here		15:02
* jreznik is here		15:02
* nirik is lurking		15:02
* tflink is here late, got the time mixed up		15:03
* adamw can just see martix from here		15:03
* jskladan lurks		15:04
adamw	#topic Previous meeting follow-up	15:05
adamw	#info adamw to consider revisions to 'kickstart delivery method' criterion - still didn't get enough round tuits, sorr	15:05
adamw	#undo	15:05
zodbot	Removing item from minutes: <MeetBot.items.Info object at 0x2678d350>	15:05
adamw	#info adamw to consider revisions to 'kickstart delivery method' criterion - still didn't get enough round tuits, sorry	15:05
adamw	#chair tflink brunowolff	15:05
zodbot	Current chairs: adamw brunowolff tflink	15:05
adamw	" tflink to ask other interested parties (anaconda team,fesco...) to look over the beta criteria and see if there's anything they feel should be dialled down"	15:06
adamw	you got somewhere on that, right?	15:06
tflink	yeah, there has been a discussion going on test@	15:07
tflink	but unless there is something I'm forgetting at the moment, there wasn't much in the way of specific requests	15:08
tflink	some interesting insight into how the blocker process is viewed, though	15:08
adamw	right, we got a bit sidetracked there	15:08
brunowolff	Yeah, Redhat should be more like us.	15:08
jreznik	brunowolff: ?	15:09
adamw	brunowolff: shhh, don't make the big pouty giant angry =)	15:09
adamw	jreznik: rhel still uses what is essentially the old Fedora blocker list process: everyone throw crap at the list then arbitrarily take it off when it's time to ship.	15:09
adamw	which turns out to have been the source of most of dcantrell's concerns, when he thought the fedora blocker list still worked like the rhel one...	15:09
brunowolff	Red Hat (made oops on the spelling above) doesn't have Nice to Have and overloads blockers which has some interesting effects.	15:09
jreznik	ah, you mean this	15:10
jreznik	ok	15:10
adamw	so yeah, maybe we could go for a reboot of that discussion with more emphasis on blocker criteria changes	15:10
tflink	probably wouldn't hurt	15:10
* pschindl had some problem with connection, but is here now		15:11
adamw	hi pschindl	15:11
adamw	#info tflink to ask other interested parties (anaconda team,fesco...) to look over the beta criteria and see if there's anything they feel should be dialled down - tflink posted a thread that got some responses but it went down a detour, we will try again	15:12
tflink	adamw: action?	15:12
tflink	I suppose I could do it :)	15:12
adamw	#action tflink try again with asking other teams to review the updated release criteria	15:12
adamw	#topic Fedora 18 Beta status check	15:13
adamw	#info F18 Beta TC4 landed Friday	15:13
adamw	or possibly saturday.	15:13
adamw	#undo	15:13
zodbot	Removing item from minutes: <MeetBot.items.Info object at 0x283815d0>	15:13
adamw	#info F18 Beta TC4 landed Saturday	15:13
adamw	i've been a bit out of the loop since then, any major explosions show up?	15:13
kparal	NM regression	15:14
kparal	a lot of related bugs	15:14
kparal	sometimes NM crashes and then a lot of weird things happen in anaconda	15:14
jreznik	and still no fedup in testable state, asking wwoods on #anaconda... latest status I have is from Friday...	15:15
jreznik	don't expect change there	15:15
tflink	jreznik: are we still planning to enter freeze tomorrow?	15:15
adamw	#info TC4 comes with a regression in NetworkManager	15:16
kparal	adamw: bug 866434	15:16
jreznik	tflink: that's the question..	15:16
adamw	#undo	15:16
zodbot	Removing item from minutes: <MeetBot.items.Info object at 0x17625490>	15:16
jreznik	I don't see any objections in the ticket	15:17
adamw	#info TC4 comes with a regression in NetworkManager: http://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=866434	15:17
jreznik	and by default, we freeze	15:17
adamw	jreznik: well, we'd advise against it still if the upgrade tool still isn't done.	15:17
tflink	we should probably update the ticket, then	15:17
nirik	any news on fedup? ;(	15:18
* nirik is happy to help package or the like if it will help.		15:18
tflink	has it even been submitted for review yet?	15:18
* nirik doesn't think so, looks.		15:18
jreznik	no, it wasn't	15:18
adamw	#info new upgrade tool is still not testable so far as we know	15:19
jreznik	from Friday - The current status is: ALMOST WORKING.	15:19
jreznik	but packaging on todo	15:20
jreznik	wwoods: are you around?	15:20
adamw	propose #agreed as new upgrade tool is still not complete, QA does not recommend freezing for Beta at this time	15:21
tflink	ack	15:22
kparal	ack	15:22
mkrizek	ack	15:22
pschindl	ack	15:22
adamw	#agreed as new upgrade tool is still not complete, QA does not recommend freezing for Beta at this time	15:22
adamw	#action adamw to update fesco freeze ticket	15:22
adamw	shall we do some blocker review tflink? looks like there's a few to get through	15:22
adamw	#topic Fedora 18 Beta mini blocker review	15:23
dan408-	sorry im late, but here	15:23
adamw	hi dan	15:24
adamw	tflink: want to run this bit?	15:24
dan408-	hi adamw	15:24
tflink	adamw: ok, give me a sec to get ready	15:24
adamw	SEC DENIED	15:24
dan408-	heh	15:24
dan408-	happy monday	15:24
dan408-	adamw: i made a change to comps for mate-desktop so anytime you guys wanna do a new compose lemme know :)	15:25
dan408-	pretty quiet for a meeting	15:26
adamw	we're waiting on tflink to start up the blocker review bit	15:27
tflink	ok, the sorting is going to be off	15:27
dan408-	adamw: did you reproduce the hostname issue? and did anyone report the mouse/cursor issue for firstboot?	15:27
tflink	since that stuff takes a bit until I get it into the main app	15:27
tflink	do we want to go through all of them today or just the ones that changed?	15:28
adamw	just go with the new ones / ones that changed	15:28
dan408-	^	15:28
adamw	ones where we're obviously gonna have nothing, skip 'em	15:28
adamw	and proposed blockers only	15:28
jreznik	+1	15:29
tflink	well, lets just do the 6 that have been proposed recently	15:30
tflink	#topic (864981) BootLoaderError: bootloader install failed	15:30
tflink	#link https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=864981	15:30
tflink	#info Proposed Blocker NEW	15:30
Viking-Ice	should blocker bug meeting *always* be held on the QA channel and started after the official QA meeting has ended so we do not wind up hogging the meeting channel?	15:30
dan408-	hi Viking-Ice	15:30
jreznik	Viking-Ice: it makes sense	15:31
* kparal thinks we should not make meeting on #fedora-qa at all, always use a different channel		15:31
adamw	we only have 6	15:31
dan408-	let's go	15:31
adamw	let's just do these	15:31
adamw	we have 1.5hrs till anyone else needs the room, i believe.	15:31
jreznik	yep, fesco moved to wed	15:32
dan408-	wed same time jreznik?	15:32
tflink	I'm a little fuzzy on the partitioning setup here	15:32
adamw	this is a pretty wonky error	15:32
dan408-	i can still crash the partitioning	15:33
adamw	it sounds like it's maybe a hybrid MBR	15:33
tflink	it's autopart, sure but something sounds strange in the VM setup	15:33
kparal	unfortunately we don't have Jan here	15:33
dan408-	well if i do reclaim space without clicking the check box then hit continue it crashes	15:33
Viking-Ice	yeah this is weird	15:34
tflink	do we have enough info totake a vote?	15:34
adamw	dan408-: that's not on topic.	15:34
kparal	let's punt and ask Jan to reproduce and provide more data about existing layout on disk	15:34
adamw	kparal: the key question is the disklabel here i believe. might be worth asking clumens/pjones what's needed.	15:35
adamw	but yeah, sounds like a punt.	15:35
kparal	it seems clumens might have an idea what's wrong in there	15:35
* jreznik have not seen everything, does not know where to look :)		15:35
jreznik	kparal: yep, seems like clumens has an idea	15:36
tflink	proposed #agreed 864981 - This seems severe but it would be good to have some more information - ask reporter to reproduce and provide more details on VM setup	15:36
Viking-Ice	ack	15:36
adamw	ack	15:36
kparal	(ask reporter and clumens)	15:36
kparal	ack	15:36
jskladan	ack	15:36
* jreznik is asking clumens for more info in #anaconda...		15:36
tflink	#agreed 864981 - This seems severe but it would be good to have some more information - ask reporter to reproduce and provide more details on VM setup	15:36
tflink	#topic (866115) ValueError: ('invalid size specification', '0 b')	15:37
tflink	#link https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=866115	15:37
tflink	#info Proposed Blocker NEW	15:37
jreznik	well, "i'm just amazed by that error message"	15:37
Viking-Ice	btw you will need to use either grub-install --force --boot-directory=/mnt/boot /dev/sda1 or grub-install --boot-directory=/mnt/boot /dev/sda so this might have been triggered by wrong or unavailable path	15:37
Viking-Ice	in anaconda	15:38
kparal	Viking-Ice: maybe you can add that information to the bugzilla? thanks	15:38
adamw	several people hitting this, looks pretty blockery.	15:38
tflink	yeah, sounds like	15:38
adamw	comment #17 is a pretty straightforward case that definitely ought to work	15:39
adamw	so +1 blocker, alpha part criterion	15:39
tflink	proposed #agreed 866115 - AcceptedBlocker - Violates the following F18 alpha release criterion: "The installer must be able to complete an installation using automatic partitioning to any sufficiently large target disk, whether unformatted, empty, or containing any kind of existing data"	15:39
Viking-Ice	ack	15:39
kparal	ack	15:39
brunowolff	ack	15:39
jreznik	ack	15:39
tflink	#agreed 866115 - AcceptedBlocker - Violates the following F18 alpha release criterion: "The installer must be able to complete an installation using automatic partitioning to any sufficiently large target disk, whether unformatted, empty, or containing any kind of existing data"	15:39
tflink	#topic (866486) Apper: cannot perform system update	15:40
tflink	#link https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=866486	15:40
tflink	#info Proposed Blocker NEW	15:40
adamw	no graphical updates in kde	15:40
jreznik	rdieter: any news on this?	15:40
adamw	that sounds blockery.	15:40
tflink	it would be nice to have some logs here, though	15:40
mkrizek	rdieter mentioned that he's seen that and 'killall packagekitd' helped, not in my case though	15:41
jreznik	seems like apper issue, pkcon updates works	15:41
kparal	I guess this could be influenced by recent PK update. it automatically cancels background operations when some foreground operations are active	15:41
kparal	so that you can use gpk-application when system tries to download system updates in the background	15:41
tflink	I'm going to have to go with -1 blocker, though	15:42
* kparal will include relevant info into the bugzilla		15:42
tflink	the change to the criteria never made it onto the list	15:42
tflink	and by list I mean the list in the wiki	15:42
Viking-Ice	-1 blocker as well	15:42
adamw	er	15:43
adamw	what change?	15:43
* kparal is confused as well		15:43
adamw	the criteria require graphical updating to work at *alpha* and have for years	15:43
adamw	viking and i were planning to _loosen_ that requirement to beta, but that's pretty irrelevant :)	15:43
tflink	alpha - graphical or text method must work @ alpha	15:43
adamw	yes. right now both must work at alpha.	15:44
tflink	beta - graphical AND text must work (might have been final)	15:44
* adamw waits for tflink to catch up		15:44
tflink	ok, I thought that part had ghone through	15:44
kparal	actually Alpha is still AND	15:44
kparal	just looking at it	15:44
Viking-Ice	we never changed it?	15:44
adamw	it doesn't matter whether we changed it or not.	15:44
Viking-Ice	or decided to change it after F18	15:44
adamw	this would be a beta blocker under the old version and the new version.	15:44
jreznik	in alpha we said graphical is not needed, I don't remember any mention of beta thus...	15:45
mkrizek	but it's beta we're talking about	15:45
tflink	proposed #agreed 866486 - VIolates the following F18 alpha release criterion: "The installed system must be able to download and install updates with yum and the default graphical package manager in all release-blocking desktops"	15:45
adamw	the old version requires graphical updating to work at alpha. the new version requires graphical updating to work at beta. this is beta.	15:45
Viking-Ice	ack	15:45
adamw	ack	15:45
jreznik	ack	15:45
kparal	yes we loosened this in Alpha, but never updated the wiki	15:45
kparal	ack	15:45
mkrizek	ack	15:45
adamw	kparal: i need to check back on that thread, yeah	15:45
tflink	#agreed 866486 - Violates the following F18 alpha release criterion: "The installed system must be able to download and install updates with yum and the default graphical package manager in all release-blocking desktops"	15:45
tflink	#topic (866434) DBusException: org.freedesktop.DBus.Error.ServiceUnknown: The name :1.0 was not provided by any .service files	15:45
tflink	#link https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=866434	15:46
tflink	#info Proposed Blocker NEW	15:46
kparal	this is the NM regression	15:46
kparal	anaconda blows in all sorts of different places because of that	15:46
kparal	(at least that's what anaconda devs suppose)	15:46
tflink	is anyone else seeing this?	15:47
adamw	yeah, it sounds like other people were getting farther, or else they wouldn't hit that 0b size bug...	15:48
kparal	today I saw it like 20 times	15:48
kparal	it's racy, so sometimes you see it, sometimes you don't	15:48
adamw	oh there's several bugs duped off as this one	15:48
kparal	all of that are mine reports	15:48
kparal	that's what I mean by blowing up in different places	15:48
adamw	all from kparal	15:48
adamw	heh	15:48
adamw	is this in a VM?	15:49
kparal	yep	15:49
kparal	tomorrow I can try bare metal	15:49
tflink	thoughts on blockery-ness?	15:50
adamw	it'd help if others could reproduce	15:50
adamw	punt till wed	15:50
adamw	we should have a better idea by then	15:50
jreznik	punt	15:51
tflink	proposed #agreed 866434 - It would be good to have more data on the number of people affected by this an more confirmation of the cause - will revisit when more information is available	15:51
jreznik	ack	15:51
jskladan	ack	15:51
kparal	ack	15:51
Viking-Ice	ack	15:51
pschindl	ack	15:51
mkrizek	ack	15:51
tflink	#agreed 866434 - It would be good to have more data on the number of people affected by this an more confirmation of the cause - will revisit when more information is available	15:51
tflink	#topic (866441) TypeError: 'NoneType' object is not iterable	15:51
tflink	#link https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=866441	15:51
tflink	#info Proposed Blocker NEW	15:51
tflink	it sounds like we coulduse more infomration on this one	15:52
kparal	there is some problem that might disable the integrated exception reporter, which would be a bad thing	15:53
kparal	but we really need anaconda devs feedback	15:53
jreznik	but more nth like for me	15:53
kparal	let's punt and I'll ask Vratislav tomorrow for more details	15:54
adamw	could this be the same NM bug?	15:54
kparal	no idea	15:54
adamw	just happening at a different time?	15:54
kparal	might be, I never saw it before	15:54
kparal	but I have seen a lots of empty anaconda-tb-* files today and that makes me nervous	15:54
tflink	proposed #agreed 866441 - More information is needed on the cause of this before deciding on blocker status - will wevisit later	15:54
kparal	something is really broken in there	15:54
Viking-Ice	ack	15:54
adamw	ack	15:54
kparal	ack	15:54
jskladan	ack	15:55
Viking-Ice	hmm feels like a non blocker to me though	15:55
tflink	#agreed 866441 - More information is needed on the cause of this before deciding on blocker status - will wevisit later	15:55
tflink	#undo	15:55
zodbot	Removing item from minutes: <MeetBot.items.Agreed object at 0x1bd964d0>	15:55
tflink	#agreed 866441 - More information is needed on the cause of this before deciding on blocker status - will revisit later	15:55
* tflink seems to be channeling elmer fudd ATM		15:55
tflink	#topic (866519) BIOS RAID is not shown on harddrive screen	15:56
tflink	#link https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=866519	15:56
tflink	#info Proposed Blocker NEW	15:56
Viking-Ice	is supported ?	15:56
adamw	yeah, we have an explicit criterion for RAID at beta, inc BIOS RAID	15:57
tflink	in general, yes	15:57
adamw	right, we usually set the bar quite high though	15:58
adamw	i.e. an error in some particular config isn't enough, we need to be sure it's like all BIOS RAID configs or at least all Intel BIOS RAID configs or something	15:59
Viking-Ice	I was more wondering if it was supposed to be shown on the harddrive screen	15:59
adamw	so it'd be nice to have another check on this, or if the anaconda team checks and it's definitely a generic issue	15:59
adamw	Viking-Ice: yes, a bios raid array ought to show up as a single disk on the diskssel screen	15:59
tflink	it would be nice to know what HW was used, too	15:59
adamw	yeah	15:59
tflink	I see RAID6 but haven't found the HW yet	15:59
Viking-Ice	punt for more data?	15:59
adamw	and it'd be nice to know what shows on custom partitioning	15:59
adamw	i see 'ID_FS_TYPE': 'isw_raid_member', which I think looks like intel bios raid.	16:00
adamw	punt sounds good, yeah	16:00
adamw	this looks like intel bios raid which means i ought to be able to test and see if i can reproduce	16:01
tflink	proposed #agreed 866519 - We need more information on the affected HW and how many people are affected before making a decision on blokcker status	16:01
adamw	ack	16:02
Viking-Ice	ack	16:02
jskladan	ack	16:03
tflink	#agreed 866519 - We need more information on the affected HW and how many people are affected before making a decision on blokcker status	16:04
tflink	OK, that's all of the newly proposed blockers	16:04
tflink	since we're over time, I propose we move on	16:04
Viking-Ice	finish that proposed nth?	16:04
tflink	Viking-Ice: that shouldn't be on the list, actually	16:04
tflink	I need to figure out why it's showing up	16:04
adamw	that's all teh blockers?	16:05
tflink	all of the recently changed ones, yes	16:05
adamw	yay.	16:05
adamw	thanks tflink	16:06
adamw	#topic open floor	16:06
* kparal recently changed 847831		16:06
* adamw taps on zodbot		16:06
adamw	so, anyone have anything for open floor?	16:07
Viking-Ice	nothing from me	16:07
adamw	i do have a heads-up: i'm having a change of heart on the partitioning criteria and wondering if we're getting too ambitious at beta	16:07
jsmith	nothing from me	16:07
adamw	but i'll work up a more detailed proposal for the list	16:07
* tflink is planning to release the new blocker tracking app soon		16:07
jsmith	adamw: Looking forward to reading it	16:07
tflink	not sure when the downtime will work best, though	16:08
Viking-Ice	adamw, define ambitious	16:08
adamw	the basic idea is 'require much less from custom part at beta, focus on the non-custom path as we did for f17 and earlier'	16:08
adamw	Viking-Ice: as in, requiring too much to work at beta	16:08
Viking-Ice	yeah well if those changes dont take effect until next development cycle	16:08
Viking-Ice	but I'm of the opinion that by beta custom partitioning ought to work	16:09
adamw	well we can kick it further on the list	16:09
adamw	that was just a sneak preview =)	16:09
Viking-Ice	but still the old one is valid until next development cycle	16:10
Viking-Ice	since this is not lack change in anaconda's behavior	16:13
adamw	so if we don't have anything else...	16:13
* adamw sets fuse for pi minutes		16:13
* kparal looks at his stopwatch		16:13
adamw	it doesn't have a pi function? well pfah	16:13
adamw	thanks for coming, folks	16:13
adamw	#endmeeting	16:13

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