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ricky #startmeeting Fedora Websites 17:00
zodbot Meeting started Fri Aug 7 17:00:40 2009 UTC. The chair is ricky. Information about MeetBot at 17:00
zodbot Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic. 17:00
-!- zodbot changed the topic of #fedora-websites to: (Meeting topic: Fedora Websites) 17:00
fedbot Meeting started Fri Aug 7 17:00:41 2009 UTC. The chair is ricky. Information about MeetBot at 17:00
fedbot Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic. 17:00
ricky #topic Who's here? 17:00
-!- zodbot changed the topic of #fedora-websites to: Who's here? (Meeting topic: Fedora Websites) 17:00
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FergatROn has the meeting started? 17:01
* sijis is here. 17:01
ricky It just did :-) 17:01
FergatROn awesome! I had to jump through some hoops to get here. :D 17:01
ricky Hehe, nice :-) 17:01
sijis welcome. :) 17:02
ricky mizmo, nb, onekopaka_away, ianweller, any other interested parties: ping 17:02
FergatROn thanks sijis 17:02
* nb 17:02
* ianweller halfway 17:02
* nb halfway also 17:02
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FergatROn Is there an agenda, ricky or is it all in your head? :D 17:02
* hiemanshu_phone is here 17:02
* ricky doesn't have very much for this meeting unfortunately :-( 17:02
* ricky is half-looking at the FESCo meeting too 17:03
ricky #topic Tasks 17:03
-!- zodbot changed the topic of #fedora-websites to: Tasks (Meeting topic: Fedora Websites) 17:03
nb yeah, i need to get moving on blogs stuff 17:03
FergatROn what's the FESCo meeting? 17:03
hiemanshu_phone me is back frome hospital so i can help 17:03
sijis nb: i'm trying to setup blogs-test on pt15, so we can have something to test the ssl piece on. 17:04
ricky hiemanshu_phone: Hope you're feeling better 17:04
hiemanshu_phone ricky not that well when u have one hand to use :( 17:04
* nb would prefer to set up ssl on value1/2, but i know infra does not want to do that 17:04
mizmo ricky: pong 17:04
* FergatROn brb - changing clients 17:04
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ricky On the bright side, you'll learn to type really fast one-handed :-) 17:04
* nb wonders why we do not want to do that? 17:04
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ricky First, we don't want to deal with separate certs on the app servers 17:05
nb true 17:05
hiemanshu_phone ricky yeah :) 17:05
* ricky is done with FESCo stuff - just had to say one line there :-) 17:05
ricky OK, so sijis is working on getting a test instance setup on publictest15/16 to see what changes would be needed to run this properly 17:06
FergatROn [ot] amazing how I searched and searched for a web irc client and freenode had one available. /facepalm 17:06
ricky Hehe 17:06
sijis haha. 17:06
FergatROn some pretty sketchy sites out there with irc clients available 17:06
hiemanshu_phone yeah m using the webclient too :) 17:07
ricky OK, so any other updates on this for now? 17:07
sijis hiemanshu_phone: if you have a smart phone, you can get putty or an irc client. 17:07
sijis ricky: nope. just trying to set that test site up. 17:07
ricky Thanks for working on that 17:07
hiemanshu_phone sijis i do have both, but phirc is pretty buggy :( 17:07
FergatROn ricky: sorry, i haven't been here,but what's the test site? 17:08
ricky 17:08
ricky The goal is to the login to require https 17:08
ricky Normally a trivial task, but not so thanks to wordpress :-) 17:08
hiemanshu_phone fergatron new here? Seeing you for the first time :) 17:09
ricky (it's a little more complex than that - we're putting a reverse proxy in front of it, which is what's making this tough) 17:09
FergatROn yup, hiemanshu_phone - I've been to one other meeting a couple months back 17:09
sijis related... anyone get a hold of bretm (wp package owner)? 17:09
FergatROn You guys have probably talked about this already, but what about those hosting their own blogs - will pick this up too or do they have to blog on both platforms? 17:09
hiemanshu_phone sijis i did 17:10
ricky FergatROn: Planet is just an aggregator in front of blog services like blogs.fp.o 17:10
ricky So people will follow the same procedures for getting those blogs on planet 17:10
FergatROn ok ricky 17:10
FergatROn can I log into the test server now? 17:11
FergatROn I wouldn't mind testing. 17:11
ricky Not with your FAS info! :-) 17:11
ricky It's running against a test FAS now 17:11
ricky ( 17:11
ricky You can make a fake account there and login, or admin/admin works if you need it 17:11
sijis its actually not authenticating, which is what i have to fix. 17:11
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ricky Oh, then you'll have to wait for that first :-) 17:12
ricky There's also an instance on production machines (but not actually ready yet due to the https issue): 17:12
sijis i kept getting a 'enable cookies' error. 17:12
-!- Netsplit over, joins: mizmo 17:12
ricky Don't login there with your FAS info without https 17:12
FergatROn gottcha 17:13
ricky OK, so any more questions on that? 17:13
hiemanshu_phone nope 17:13
ricky OK then. 17:13
ricky #topic Alpha release 17:13
-!- zodbot changed the topic of #fedora-websites to: Alpha release (Meeting topic: Fedora Websites) 17:13
ricky For those of you in the web group, we're going to have some routine changes to make for the alpha release 17:14
hiemanshu_phone bring it on :) 17:14
FergatROn haha 17:14
ricky Normally I do those every release, but I want to make sure that other people know how/what to do for a release too :-) 17:14
hiemanshu_phone ricky m here to help :) 17:15
ricky Excellent :-) 17:15
ricky So here's the release schedule for F12: Schedule 17:15
* sijis is available too. 17:15
hiemanshu_phone cant game one hand :„ 17:15
FergatROn ditto - I've love to do some of that "routine" stuff too. 17:15
hiemanshu_phone :( 17:15
ricky For the alpha/beta release, what we do is make a get-prerelease page 17:15
ricky Which pretty much looks like get-fedora-all except with links to the alpha or beta. 17:16
ricky That usually gets linked from the get-fedora page, plus a banner from the design team 17:16
hiemanshu_phone ricky my fav page :) 17:16
ricky Hehe 17:16
ricky So the alpha release is coming up in a week or so, and that stuff will start to come in 17:16
ricky We've already gotten some emails from Paulo with some initial release banner 17:17
ricky **banners 17:17
hiemanshu_phone ricky i should be able to use my comp from moday 17:17
ricky So in a few days we'll start working on getting that stuff up and ready 17:17
hiemanshu_phone monday ** 17:17
ricky Cool, I'll make sure to ping you guys some time next week then :-) 17:18
* hiemanshu_phone saw the banners 17:18
* nb can help 17:18
ricky OK, so that's all I have on that for now, with more updates to come once we get started with that 17:18
hiemanshu_phone ricky any time :) Slow but steady will be my new style :D 17:19
ricky Cool 17:19
ricky #topic spins/get-fedora redesign 17:19
-!- zodbot changed the topic of #fedora-websites to: spins/get-fedora redesign (Meeting topic: Fedora Websites) 17:19
ricky mizmo: ping - do you still have those mockup links handy? 17:19
ricky So a week has gone by with discussion on fedora-advisory-board 17:19
ricky mizmo: Are you satisfied with the requirements that have come out of that so far? 17:20
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sijis here's the link: [1] 17:20
ricky Thanks 17:20
mizmo ricky: i haven't actually followed them yet 17:20
ricky Ah, OK. There hasn't been all that much to be honest :-/ The thread kind of dried out 17:20
* nb likes 17:21
ricky mizmo: I was wondering what your thoughts are for how much of this would can go in the F12 website 17:22
ricky s/would // 17:22
hiemanshu_phone mizmo your mockups were totally off what i expected 17:22
hiemanshu_phone off from* 17:23
ricky Can you elaborate? 17:23
hiemanshu_phone we wanted to make it easy and clear 17:23
FergatROn [inturpting] excuse me for the slowness. This is a mock up of what you want the get-fedora page to be? 17:24
hiemanshu_phone mizmo's mockup elobrates one thing, not what i think is very good 17:24
ricky I don't think that was a get-fedora mockup - it looked more like a front page to me :-) 17:24
ricky Oh, I could be mistaken 17:25
hiemanshu_phone we want everything in a clear cut way 17:25
sijis it was just the front page 17:25
ianweller v4_front is the front page 17:25
FergatROn oh ok, so this is the new home page. 17:25
hiemanshu_phone it was get-fedora page iirc 17:25
sijis let me find the other link. 17:25
ianweller [2] 17:25
ianweller [3] 17:25
ricky Then again, as a front page, I might also want something that emphasizes the Fedora *Project* a little more in addition to the Fedora Linux distro 17:26
ianweller herlo-moonwalk.ogg on the front page in a <video> tag 17:26
* ianweller ducks 17:26
FergatROn haha, good move. 17:26
ricky Anyway, one thing the board made pretty clear is that spins.fp.o is kind of a requirement for 17:26
ricky So that should probably be our priority going for F12 17:27
nb so on getfedora we aren't putting a link to the DVD on the first page?\ 17:27
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ricky Then we'd need to make the modification to get-fedora/fp.o to account for that 17:27
ricky I wish I could have a better estimate of how much we can get done by then. A full scale redesign could be completely realistic, or it could be overreaching, I have no idea 17:28
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sijis we could do 'parts'.. like do get.fp.o and then the home page a bit later. 17:28
hiemanshu_ we can go one by one 17:29
ricky Yeah - I think a good approach is to split this up into chunks and just do as many chunks as we can :-) 17:29
hiemanshu_ first get.fp.o 17:29
ricky Er, it'd have to be spins first based on what the board has said 17:29
hiemanshu_ i think we decided on a list 17:29
ricky Then get-fedora 17:29
FergatROn I work for Centers for Disease Control and Prevention and that's how they do redesigns. 1st level, 2nd level, 3rd level pages, etc. 17:29
ricky Ah, cool 17:30
ricky So they start from 3rd up, or is it the reverse? 17:30
* hiemanshu_ agrees 17:30
FergatROn reverse ricky 17:30
ricky Here's the board's statement on spins.fp.o: 17:30
FergatROn They make sure 1 tier pages are converted, then 2nd, 3rd, etc 17:30
ricky Ah 17:30
sijis FergatROn: so, you'd do homepage, then 2nd tier landing page, then the details pages, for example? 17:31
FergatROn sijis: correct 17:31
ricky In this case our priorities probably start from get-fedora, since that's the main thing the board is commissioning 17:31
FergatROn they do TONS of user testing that this method seems to work well. 17:31
ricky And that now depends on spins.fp.o as well 17:31
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ricky Oh hey mchua 17:33
FergatROn hiya mchua 17:34
* ricky hopes the laptop issues are going well :-/ 17:34
* mchua waves from NYC, disoriented from travel + laptop-FAIL 17:34
FergatROn This spins.fp.o page is totally new to me. 17:34
* ricky waves right next door from NJ :-) 17:34
* hiemanshu_ waves at mchua 17:34
ricky FergatROn: yeah, it was discussed a loooong time ago, but maybe some of the requirements were a bit too ambitious, so it never really got off the ground 17:35
FergatROn it looks like a data set. How can you make that more attractive? :D 17:35
ricky mizmo made some great mockups for it though 17:35
mchua can someone throw me a backchannel/link-to-logs? 17:35
ricky The goal is to have separate pages for each spin, which the spin creators can edit themselves 17:35
sijis looking at the list, i think this is the latest mockup for spins: [4] 17:35
ricky mchua: 17:36
ricky sijis: Looks like it, thanks 17:36
mchua thanks, ricky 17:36
ricky mizmo: Do you think we need many modifications to that given the new requirements for spins.fp.o? 17:37
FergatROn hey ricky - why is it that the Websites/Meeting page doesn't have the log from each meeting? 17:37
ricky Umm... that's really bad wiki maintenance on my part :-) 17:37
hiemanshu_ wrong question at this time :P 17:37
* ricky has been relying on the mailing list more for meeting logs :-) 17:37
ricky FergatROn: Mind adding a notice there that meeting logs are now sent to list? 17:38
FergatROn sure 17:38
ricky Or alternatively,, although that may change if our time changes and we move to fedora-meeting 17:38
* mchua is caught up now - listening in, in case Marketing can jump in and help on anything (Fedora Insight being our big websites-related project coming through the pipeline.) 17:38
ricky Cool, how is that going? 17:39
* mchua sits back. 17:39
ricky Will it become the testing ground for zikula? 17:39
mchua ricky: that's the plan - I can fill you folks in now, if you want, but figured you'd want to wrap up the various *.fp.o convos first 17:39
ricky OK 17:40
ricky So mizmo doesn't seem to be around at the moment, so I'll ping her later and try to get a summary of what needs to happen sent to list 17:40
ricky (In terms of where the mockups are and refining those/starting HTML/CSS) 17:41
ricky She's been really busy with release artwork and other stuff though so I don't want to dump too much on her :-/ 17:41
ricky OK, so anything else on this topic for now? 17:41
sijis i guess we are waiting on updated mockups based on the new reqs? 17:42
hiemanshu_ nope 17:42
sijis and the moving forward with spins first? 17:42
ricky Looks like it - feel free to comment/make your own though - mizmo is really good about making all her SVGs available :-) 17:42
mchua a huge +1 and THANK YOU to everyone working on the *.fp.o redesigns, btw - it's great to see this finally moving forward. 17:42
ricky From what I see, the front page mockup for spins looks perfectly fine 17:43
ricky What we'd need is some way to have a directory of spins with something like a blurb, download URL, and maybe some other info 17:43
ricky For now - I have one task: 17:43
ricky #task Talk to current spins owners and find out what info they'd want to be available on a spin page 17:43
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* ricky isn't sure what the best way to contact all spins people is 17:44
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ricky kanarip in #fedora-{devel,admin} might be a good person to ask though 17:44
ricky So anybody want to take that? :-) 17:44
ricky There are a bunch of approaches we can take here 17:45
hiemanshu_ if we have enough time i can do it 17:45
ricky We can give them an entire directory to put whatever website stuff they want, although that could lead to inconsistency 17:45
ricky Or we could give a template where they could fill in the essentials 17:45
FergatROn meeting log note added ricky 17:45
ricky Thanks, FergatROn! 17:45
sijis i was thinking.. show them the 'current mockup' and saw, fill these 'fields' in. 17:46
sijis s/saw/say 17:46
ricky Oh yeah, there is a bunch of useful stuff in if you guys want to look around by the way 17:46
hiemanshu_ an email to list with details would be better 17:46
ricky Sure thing 17:46
* ricky will mention this in the "what needs to happen" email 17:47
ricky OK then, onto the next topic 17:47
ricky #topic Fedora Insight (Marketing) 17:47
-!- zodbot changed the topic of #fedora-websites to: Fedora Insight (Marketing) (Meeting topic: Fedora Websites) 17:47
ricky mchua: Can you give us an overview of what's going on with that? 17:47
mchua Yup. Actually, I have a picture for y'all... 17:48
mchua 17:48
mchua fresh off the whiteboard 17:48
FergatROn [another question] Am I allowed to put a copy of the meeting log on the wiki? 17:48
mchua some backstory, for those new to the FI idea, is at Fedora_Insight 17:48
ricky FergatROn: If you'd like, sure! 17:48
* hiemanshu_ will look when he can get to a computer 17:49
mchua basically, Fedora Insight (FI) is a stream of public-facing media - things we already make, like feature profiles, contributor interviews, nifty-looking banners, etc. 17:49
mchua it just collects all those things in one place instead of on various blogs and people's fp.o accounts 17:49
mchua it's going to be based on zikula 17:50
FergatROn convienent! ;) 17:50
mchua and since it's a smaller, faster, lower-risk thing to put up than the (gigantic-in-scope) docs.fp.o migration 17:50
ricky mchua: Something I've been wondering about something like this - which do you think is a better approach, having articles written in English and translated to other languages, or having separate languages setup their own feeds/news written in that language? 17:50
mchua I'm angling to use it as a testbed for zikula, so we can make all our mistakes on FI instead of docs. ;) 17:50
mchua ricky: A combination of both, actually. 17:50
ricky The second could be a less painful (and more fun!) way to handle the l10n thing stuff :-) 17:50
mchua let me explain with an example... 17:50
mchua have any of you seen ? 17:51
hiemanshu_ naah 17:51
sijis nope. 17:51
mchua well, then click there and change that. :) 17:51
mchua it's a news site - you'll see the english-facing page if you go to that link - but its made to spread news from different languages *to* different languages. 17:51
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hiemanshu_ mchua not on a cell phone, i ll be logged off then :( 17:52
mchua hiemanshu_: ahh, I'll try to describe then 17:52
mchua it looks like a news blog 17:52
mchua but if you click on an article, you'll see (at the top) other languages that article is available in 17:52
mchua if you click there, you'll go to the site - which is also a blog - with that translation 17:52
ricky That's pretty impressive 17:53
mchua they have a workflow that makes it easy for $randomperson to see an article they like, translate it, and then have it show up in the appropriate language's feed 17:53
mchua so mono-lingual contributors push stories in their language to their feed 17:53
sijis so does it translate *all* articles or most of them? 17:53
mchua and multi-lingual contributors watch the feeds of languages they're interested in, and translate what they find fascinating. 17:53
mchua sijis: Most of them. They don't *mandate* translation of any articles, but they make it *extremely* easy to translate an article if you know the appropriate languages. 17:54
hiemanshu_ i think a compjter translation and then a person with that native lang making it better is a nice thing to do 17:54
* ricky is really afraid of computer translations in their current state 17:54
mchua hiemanshu_: Yep, the translation workflow is definitely a high priority 17:54
mchua but websites-wise, the gameplan is 17:54
mchua marketing is coordinating with news + docs to make the content workflow happen, so there are no worries there 17:55
mchua we're just starting to figure out the infrastructure part 17:55
ricky Schedule-wise, what is this looking at? 17:55
mchua ianweller is tech lead for FI 17:55
mchua ricky: that's on the left side of the image 17:55
* ianweller looks up 17:55
ianweller oh god my printer just ate paper 17:55
mchua target is to have a first solid release out and running by F12 beta 17:56
ricky OK, keep in mind that there will be an Infrastructure freeze from 2 weeks prior to release day until 1 day after release 17:56
mchua usable by Ambassadors 17:56
* mchua nods 17:56
mchua ricky: yeah, I figured "launch by beta!" would give us plenty of time for infra freeze 17:56
ricky Cool, so running at that point = running in production with the configs pretty stable 17:56
mchua ricky: exactly 17:56
ricky Yup, that's generally the best idea :-) 17:56
ricky Although note that we do have freezes for those too 17:56
mchua ricky: the content workflow may be tweaked after that but that's not an infra change, that's a people-processes change 17:56
ricky Much more permissive ones though 17:56
ricky Yup 17:57
mchua ricky: ahh - when are those freezes? 17:57
ricky Release_Infrastructure_SOP#Change_Freeze 17:57
mchua ricky: thanks! 17:57
mchua ricky: the coordination I see this needing with websites is as follows 17:57
ricky I'm not sure how this is changing with the way that the preview releases changed this relesae. 17:57
ricky There used to be one around preview release, but that's now called the beta, right? 17:57
ricky So we might use the beta as the time to do everything like it's the final release 17:58
mchua ricky: (1) infrastructure - the big open question in my mind (but on ianweller's plate, once the two of us catch up) is how to fold this nicely into the stuff that gets maintained, and who maintains it infrastructure-wise in terms of keeping the site up, stable, etc. 17:58
ricky Actually, what I'm saying might be totally irrelevant 17:58
mchua ricky: ah yes. that sounds like what I've heard about the preview release going away too. 17:58
* FergatROn I gotta run - get back to work. 17:58
ricky If this is going to be considered a value-added service, it'll likely be on a server that's not covered by the freeze 17:58
ianweller FergatROn: see ya 17:58
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mchua ricky: (2) websites + design - making sure the look and feel fits into what the rest of fedora's websites are doing 17:58
ianweller ricky: define 'value-added' :) 17:59
mchua ricky: (3) websites + marketing - being taken care of, mostly a content question in my mind; we've got it down, so this is not a worry. 17:59
ricky It mean not in our critical path - stuff that needs to happen to make Fedora 17:59
ricky .tiny;a=blob_plain;f=architecture/Environments.odg;hb=HEAD 17:59
zodbot ricky: 17:59
mchua ricky: yeah, this is very much a value-added. 17:59
ricky OK, so ignore everything I said then, sorry :-) 18:00
mchua ricky: so the big question is FI from a websites + infrastructure standpoint. 18:00
mchua how that would work out. what needs to happen to make getting the site up and keeping it up all solid. 18:00
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mchua and that's ianweller being tech lead, so I'm confident it's going to work fantastically. :) 18:01
ricky Cool 18:01
ianweller woo confidence 18:01
ricky OK, so we're a bit over time, but there's one last thing I want to bring up 18:01
ricky #topic Minor websites change - legal disclaimer on get-fedora 18:02
-!- zodbot changed the topic of #fedora-websites to: Minor websites change - legal disclaimer on get-fedora (Meeting topic: Fedora Websites) 18:02
mchua ianweller: we should sync up on FI at some point, btw - I want to make sure you're all set... I don't think I've given you everything you need to run forth with this yet, and need to fix that asap. 18:02
mchua ianweller: but that's outside this meeting. 18:02
ianweller noted. 18:02
ianweller mchua: let's do it before next wednesday. 18:02
* mchua gets quiet, listens to legal stuffs 18:02
mchua ianweller: --> pm 18:02
ricky Unfortunately, legal wants us to put an enormous export notice on get-fedora :-( 18:02
ricky So this should be considered a pretty high priority thing to get done. 18:02
ricky The main concern right now is how to make it not hideous 18:03
ricky What they want is something like what's at the bottom of 18:03
sijis do you have an example of what they'd like? 18:03
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ricky sijis: Just the jboss disclaimer 18:04
sijis yeah, i see. 18:04
* hiemanshu_phone would love to help, seeing that he cant work for the nest couple of montha 18:04
hiemanshu_phone months** 18:04
ricky Anyway, mockups/ideas appreciated for how to add that in a non-intrusive way 18:05
sijis does it have to be 'on' the page? how about a js type window, when you click onit.. sort of like the fas info bubbles. 18:05
ricky mizmo has been thinking about this as well, particularly ways to avoid having the big notice fill up a third of the page, but legal seems pretty adamant about it :-( 18:05
ricky So far we've asked about having it on a splash page after the download button is clicked, but that's not allowed :-/ 18:06
ianweller i was afraid of that. :( 18:06
ianweller holy crapper the site looks niiiiiiice 18:06
ianweller (sorry distracting :D) 18:06
ricky ianweller: Yeah, take a few minutes and try to find a jboss downoad link :-) 18:07
hiemanshu_phone ianweller not the first time is it? :) 18:07
* ricky wouldn't mind putting it in a bubble for people that have javascript enabled - we can ask if that's a possibility 18:07
sijis or a 'hidden div', wen the click, it expands. 18:08
ianweller ok i'm lost on their website 18:08
ianweller it *looks* nice. it isn't nice. ;) 18:08
ricky :-) 18:08
ricky OK, so that's all I have on the legal thing - more ideas for doing it are much appreciated, but we'll probably be adding it on in some form very soon 18:08
ricky #topic Open floor 18:09
-!- zodbot changed the topic of #fedora-websites to: Open floor (Meeting topic: Fedora Websites) 18:09
ricky Anything else you guys want to discuss? 18:09
hiemanshu_phone nope 18:09
hiemanshu_phone ricky now that m here and no work i can help a lot :) 18:09
sijis i cannot think of anything else. 18:10
ricky Cool, thanks! 18:10
ricky hiemanshu_phone: There'll be a good amount of work around the release, so that's perfect :-) 18:10
ricky #endmeeting 18:10
-!- zodbot changed the topic of #fedora-websites to: to: The Fedora Websites team maintains the official Fedora Project websites ( | Want to help us? Contact the respective leaders listed here : | 18:10
zodbot Meeting ended Fri Aug 7 18:10:58 2009 UTC. Information about MeetBot at . 18:10
zodbot Minutes: 18:10
zodbot Minutes (text): 18:10
fedbot Meeting ended Fri Aug 7 18:10:57 2009 UTC. Information about MeetBot at . 18:10
fedbot Minutes: 18:10
fedbot Minutes (text): 18:11
ricky All right, thanks a lot 18:11
zodbot Log: 18:11
fedbot Log: 18:11

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