BugZappers/Meetings/Minutes-2009-Apr-21

Bug Triage Meeting :: 2009-04-21

Attendees

• adamw
• arxs
• iarlyy
• poelcat
• thomasj
• mcepl
• comphappy (not really)
• John5342
• rishi

Topics of Discussion

• SOP's - https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/BugZappers/sop has been created along with a link on https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/BugZappers/ to the page.

• Triage Metrics - Problems with python have delayed the completion this task. Adamw and comphappy are working towards a solution and will report at the end of the week on the progress. Follow up on next weeks agenda.

• Blocker Bugs - No updated information at this time. Will be on next weeks agenda.

• http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Beland/Bugzilla_Legend - Adamw will edit and refine this UN-OFFICIAL WORKING DRAFT based on current information. Follow up on next weeks agenda.

Unassigned Follow Tasks

• https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/BugZappers/Components_and_Triagers - Removal of the static metrics from this page.

IRC Transcript

--- | poelcat has changed the topic to: Bug Triage Meeting		Apr 21 11:00
Apr 21 11:01:08< poelcat> | hi everyone, who is here?
* | thomasj part		Apr 21 11:02
Apr 21 11:02:47< arxs> | here
Apr 21 11:02:48< adamw> | hiya
Apr 21 11:04:07< poelcat> | adamw: have you seen mcepl or tk009?
Apr 21 11:04:22< adamw> | i woke up approximately 10 seconds ago :)
Apr 21 11:05:48< poelcat> | adamw: should we cancel the meeting?
Apr 21 11:06:47< adamw> | um
Apr 21 11:06:58< adamw> | anyone have anything they think we can usefully talk about with this group?
Apr 21 11:07:13< iarlyy> | hi all, sorry for delay
Apr 21 11:07:18< adamw> | hi iarlyy
Apr 21 11:08:05< iarlyy> | adamw: what are we talking about?
Apr 21 11:08:11< adamw> | nothing yet
Apr 21 11:08:14< adamw> | not much turnout
Apr 21 11:08:46< adamw> | let's see, we could still do the status reports
Apr 21 11:08:55< adamw> | poelcat: that's your bailliwick I believe
Apr 21 11:09:02< poelcat> | okay, i'll go through the agenda
Apr 21 11:09:05< poelcat> | it may be quick
Apr 21 11:09:13< poelcat> | i created the SOP page (just now :-/)
Apr 21 11:09:17< poelcat> | need to add the links
Apr 21 11:09:22< poelcat> | https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/BugZappers/sop
Apr 21 11:09:58< poelcat> | once I add the link I think that will address agenda item #2
Apr 21 11:10:10< adamw> | OK
Apr 21 11:10:13< adamw> | thanks for that
Apr 21 11:10:14< poelcat> | unless there was something else that needed to happen
Apr 21 11:10:38< adamw> | i don't see anything...well, link the sop page from wherever it needs to be linked in the rest of the wiki
Apr 21 11:11:09< poelcat> | adamw: add a link to the bugzappers front page?
Apr 21 11:12:00< iarlyy> | I fixed typo "bugzialla"
Apr 21 11:13:12< poelcat> | iarlyy: thanks :)
Apr 21 11:13:19< poelcat> | next topic was metrics collection
Apr 21 11:13:40< adamw> | yeah
Apr 21 11:13:44< poelcat> | comphappy is still trying to get the server setup
Apr 21 11:13:53< poelcat> | that is all I know
Apr 21 11:13:56< poelcat> | anyone else?
Apr 21 11:13:56< adamw> | comphappy can't be here but he says the problem is he has to port the code to python 2.4 to run on fedora infrastructure
Apr 21 11:13:59< adamw> | which seems kind of bizarre
Apr 21 11:14:14< adamw> | i'll try and get in touch with him to get the whole story on that and see if there's anything we can do about it
Apr 21 11:14:21< poelcat> | adamw: thanks
Apr 21 11:14:50< comphappy> | Not really here but I will fill in a little
Apr 21 11:15:12< adamw> | ah hi comphappy, thanks
Apr 21 11:15:24< comphappy> | I wrote the code for python 2.5
Apr 21 11:16:25< comphappy> | But fedora infra is using stuff from them and that is 2.4
Apr 21 11:16:50< comphappy> | Make that rhel phone is hard to type from
* | iarlyy crying because lost a hd.... :(		Apr 21 11:17
Apr 21 11:17:27< comphappy> | I use a bunch of dict tools that were added ti 2.5
Apr 21 11:18:11< adamw> | seems odd that rhel would still be on python 2.4
Apr 21 11:18:24< comphappy> | I have meetings all week but iwill fill adamw in this weekend
Apr 21 11:18:33< adamw> | is there a mailing list thread about this or anything, or did you just ask in irc?
Apr 21 11:18:49< mcepl> | pip
Apr 21 11:18:55< mcepl> | sorry for being late
Apr 21 11:18:56< comphappy> | Irc fedora-admin
Apr 21 11:19:15< iarlyy> | hi mcepl
Apr 21 11:19:26< adamw> | comphappy: ok, thanks a lot - i'll catch up with you this weekend
Apr 21 11:19:31< adamw> | mcepl: hiya
Apr 21 11:19:33< comphappy> | But I have toget back to my job meting now
Apr 21 11:19:39< mcepl> | what did I miss
Apr 21 11:19:41< adamw> | comphappy: go with our blessings ;)
* | John5342 arrives late		Apr 21 11:19
Apr 21 11:20:07< adamw> | mcepl: not so much - poelcat's on top of the sop pages, comphappy reported on a roadblock with the metrics stuff
Apr 21 11:20:18< mcepl> | auch
Apr 21 11:20:25< adamw> | he wrote it in python 2.5 and apparently infrastructure only has python 2.4
Apr 21 11:20:33< adamw> | which seems a bit odd, so i'll do some investigatin'
Apr 21 11:20:37< adamw> | you know anything about that?
Apr 21 11:20:59< adamw> | wb poelcat
Apr 21 11:21:10< poelcat> | thanks, not sure what happened
Apr 21 11:21:17< poelcat> | lost my whole screen session and everything
Apr 21 11:21:33< mcepl> | adamw: hmm, if infrastructure runs on RHEL5 (which seems reasonable), then I guess we are limited to 2.4
Apr 21 11:21:57< adamw> | yeah, he said it runs on RHEL
Apr 21 11:22:06< adamw> | i didn't know the latest rhel was still stuck in the python stone age :\ bummer
Apr 21 11:22:31< mcepl> | remember, RHEL5 is Fedora 6
Apr 21 11:23:12< mcepl> | F7 was python 2.5 I believe
Apr 21 11:23:17< adamw> | ok, so we'll have to see what we can come up with there
Apr 21 11:23:42< adamw> | poelcat: next on the agenda?
Apr 21 11:23:52< poelcat> | yes
Apr 21 11:24:08< poelcat> | next topic was blocker bug discussion
Apr 21 11:24:24< poelcat> | which i think tied into the conversation QA was having
Apr 21 11:24:31< poelcat> | about release critiera?
Apr 21 11:25:58< adamw> | yeah
Apr 21 11:26:36< poelcat> | any updates?
Apr 21 11:26:43< adamw> | er, i haven't exactly been thinking along those lines this week, so i'm a bit blank on that right now
Apr 21 11:27:00< poelcat> | okay
Apr 21 11:27:03< adamw> | has anyone else got any thoughts there?
Apr 21 11:27:10< rishi> | I got one issue.
Apr 21 11:28:16< adamw> | yup?
Apr 21 11:28:26< rishi> | Ville Skytta had posted a list of packages with broken -debuginfos. I have been filling "high" priority bugs with fixes for them. Are there any plans regarding them?
Apr 21 11:28:47< rishi> | Most of them are broken for F-9 to F-12.
Apr 21 11:28:59< adamw> | plans, as in...?
Apr 21 11:29:08< adamw> | fixing the bugs is kinda outside our scope, heh
Apr 21 11:29:21< rishi> | adamw: How important are they for the release, etc..
* | poelcat doubts we would hold up a release for debuginfo packages		Apr 21 11:30
Apr 21 11:30:55< John5342> | debuginfo packages help debugging issues but should not effect end user experience so doubt they are worth holding up release for
Apr 21 11:31:25< rishi> | Since most of the fixes are trivial, can some provenpackager go through the bugs and commit the fixes?
* | rishi is not a provenpackager		Apr 21 11:31
Apr 21 11:31:37< adamw> | and they have no particular impact on the Installation Experience
Apr 21 11:31:43< adamw> | so post-release updates is fine
Apr 21 11:31:52< adamw> | rishi: possibly, but that'd be outside our scope
Apr 21 11:32:01< rishi> | adamw: Ok.
Apr 21 11:32:09< adamw> | rishi: bugzappers is for weeding bugzilla; when it comes to that kind of thing, you'd need a different group
Apr 21 11:32:26< rishi> | adamw: Who? :-) fedora-qa?
Apr 21 11:32:42< adamw> | no, both qa and bugzappers are responsible for identifying and tracking bugs, not fixing them :)
Apr 21 11:32:51< adamw> | i don't know where's the best place to request something like that, actually
Apr 21 11:32:59< adamw> | mcepl? poelcat? what would you say?
Apr 21 11:33:23< mcepl> | rishi: where is the list
Apr 21 11:33:27< mcepl> | ?
Apr 21 11:33:40< mcepl> | is there any tracking bug for them?
Apr 21 11:34:04< poelcat> | seems like a fedora-devel topic to me
Apr 21 11:34:06< iarlyy> | isn't devel role?
Apr 21 11:34:17< rishi> | mcepl: A thread on fedora-devel-list.
Apr 21 11:34:21< mcepl> | make a bug for each package, and tracking bug for all of them and then maybe some provenpackager (like me ;-)) will go through them.
Apr 21 11:34:30< mcepl> | OK, I will take a look
Apr 21 11:35:12< poelcat> | next topic
Apr 21 11:35:13< poelcat> | 5) Wiki Revisions - http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/BugZappers/How_to_Triage <http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Beland/Bugzilla_Legend> - revising the draft list of priority / severity criteria.
Apr 21 11:35:33< poelcat> | i think we are done with the first page?
Apr 21 11:35:48< poelcat> | the second one depends on the proposal adamw has been getting feedback on
Apr 21 11:35:53< poelcat> | anything to discuss today?
Apr 21 11:36:04< adamw> | well, rather the proposal depends on the page
Apr 21 11:36:18< adamw> | we'll be linking to this page in the proposal
Apr 21 11:36:22< adamw> | so we want it to be reasonably solid
Apr 21 11:36:44< adamw> | in particular, jlaska noticed it had some subjective bits
Apr 21 11:37:04< adamw> | and the "Severity is used to describe how bad a bug is for the reporter" doesn't match up with the recent discussion on test-list
Apr 21 11:37:51< adamw> | looking at it again, i'd want to tweak that, and the "producing major frustration" line under High
Apr 21 11:37:55< adamw> | aside from that it looks ok
Apr 21 11:39:49< poelcat> | makes sense to me
Apr 21 11:40:06< arxs> | think we should change it like jlaska wrote it
Apr 21 11:40:23< adamw> | ok, great - i guess i'll go ahead and revise it along those lines today
Apr 21 11:40:49< adamw> | on that whole topic, btw, i was going to send the mail out to -devel yesterday or today but now i'm waiting on a technical query with the bugzilla maintainer
Apr 21 11:40:58< adamw> | (on whether it's actually possible to block access to priority / severity)
Apr 21 11:41:06< adamw> | so that's the status there
Apr 21 11:41:57< arxs> | is that an option for you to block the prio/serv fields?
Apr 21 11:42:18< adamw> | that's the question - whether we can block access to those fields to all except maintainers / zappers
Apr 21 11:42:18< arxs> | or to hide it from the reporter?
Apr 21 11:42:28< adamw> | well, both, but the first is most important
Apr 21 11:44:10< adamw> | the second is mostly useful to prevent people being annoyed about the first =)
Apr 21 11:44:47< arxs> | that's right :)
Apr 21 11:45:11< mcepl> | adamw: I just wrote extensive comment on the test list about severity
Apr 21 11:45:32< adamw> | i didn't read that yet :\
Apr 21 11:45:33< arxs> | uh? i must missed it
Apr 21 11:45:59< mcepl> | adamw: I just sent it (just a notice, that I expect continuous flamewar on replies to what I wrote)
Apr 21 11:46:22< adamw> | oh good, life was getting a bit dull around here
Apr 21 11:46:33< adamw> | i shall warm up the flamethrower
Apr 21 11:46:37< mcepl> | (my experience as SAP's lawyer come to play here; I know a little bit about severity)
Apr 21 11:47:42< mcepl> | and yes, it should be open only to maintainers/bugzappers, or maybe reporter should have it available on the bug reporting initial form, but that's the last time they see it.
Apr 21 11:47:54< mcepl> | s/see/can touch/
Apr 21 11:48:13< arxs> | sounds good, what's about the voting option?
Apr 21 11:48:42< adamw> | i don't think we need to worry about it too much at this point - we can leave it there, it doesn't hurt anything
Apr 21 11:48:44< arxs> | to give the "users" or reports a change to show up there interest?
Apr 21 11:48:46< adamw> | we can think about what to do with the data
Apr 21 11:48:47< mcepl> | voting is nice but just as a reminder ... it should never be automatically translated into changes of severity/priority
Apr 21 11:48:49< adamw> | if anyone has any ideas
Apr 21 11:49:21< arxs> | :mcepl, i fully agree you
Apr 21 11:49:28< mcepl> | if there is a low/low bug with 2000 votes, then we should reconsider, but that's it
Apr 21 11:49:51< arxs> | :mcpel right, i think the same about
Apr 21 11:50:53< mcepl> | (we or maintainers, of course)
Apr 21 11:52:12< mcepl> | and yes, jlaska is right ... there are two tasks here ... redefining priority/severity and then how to use it.
Apr 21 11:52:20< poelcat> | last topic was https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/BugZappers/Components_and_Triagers
Apr 21 11:52:30< poelcat> | the manual metrics are stale
Apr 21 11:52:38< poelcat> | i propose we remove them
Apr 21 11:52:41< adamw> | fine by me
Apr 21 11:53:21< arxs> | sounds good
Apr 21 11:53:30< poelcat> | was someone committed to maintaining them?
Apr 21 11:53:30< mcepl> | +1
Apr 21 11:53:35< iarlyy> | +1
Apr 21 11:54:27< poelcat> | any other topics for today or to discuss next week?
Apr 21 11:56:14< mcepl> | not for me, 2B continued in #fedora-bugzappers about severity/priority
Apr 21 11:56:20< adamw> | right
Apr 21 11:56:24< adamw> | remember, triage day starts now
Apr 21 11:56:32< adamw> | we had a few new guys sign up this week so they may show up
Apr 21 11:56:48< poelcat> | adamw: thanks for handling all that!
Apr 21 11:56:56< adamw> | no problems
Apr 21 11:57:06< poelcat> | thanks for coming everyone!
Apr 21 11:57:09< poelcat> | <EOM>

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