I18N/Meetings/2009-09-01

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Meeting

Time: 2009-09-01 0500 UTC

Place: #fedora-meeting on Freenode

Agenda:

• Releases/12/Schedule
• Bugs corner: rawhide bugs
• Harfbuzz Indic Test Suit

(meetBot commands)

Summary

http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting/2009-09-01/fedora-meeting.2009-09-01-05.00.html

• 76 open rawhide bugs
• https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=518395: add @input-methods to Package Selection screen
• fontconfig-2.7.2 in rawhide and f11 update
• splitting up lohit-fonts
• new ibus icon
• harfbuzz indic test suit
• FTBFS for knm_new-fonts, fonts-ISO8859-2, UnihanDb
• ibus-anthy icon

Log

http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting/2009-09-01/fedora-meeting.2009-09-01-05.00.log.html

juhp	#startmeeting i18n	05:00
zodbot	Meeting started Tue Sep 1 05:00:06 2009 UTC. The chair is juhp. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.	05:00
zodbot	Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.	05:00
dychen	hi juhp	05:00
tagoh3	hi	05:00
pravins	hi juhp	05:00
fujiwarat	hi	05:00
juhp	hi guys	05:01
juhp	welcome to our biweekly i18n meeting	05:01
phuang_	hi	05:02
juhp	#topic I18N/Meetings/2009-09-01	05:03
juhp	oops	05:04
juhp	#topic F12	05:04
juhp	beta freeze is at the end of this month - so about 4 hours of devel left	05:04
juhp	ugh 4 months, lol	05:04
juhp	this getting silly - 4 WEEKS	05:05
juhp	any concerns about f12 schedule?	05:05
dychen	juhp: What's our features in F-12?	05:06
juhp	I guess there are still various work/features we might hope to land this month - various some ibus improvements, yum plugin, xkb maps for indic inscript?	05:08
juhp	any others I am forgetting?	05:08
juhp	dychen: hmm might be good to list then for f13 on the wiki beyond official fedora features	05:09
juhp	if no comments then let's move on	05:09
juhp	#topic rawhide bugs	05:10
juhp	https://bugzilla.redhat.com/buglist.cgi?product=Fedora&version=rawhide&bug_status=__open__&emailassigned_to2=1&emailcc2=1&emailtype2=exact&email2=fedora-i18n-bugs@redhat.com	05:10
juhp	76 open rawhide bugs we own or are tracking	05:10
juhp	anyone have any particular issues they want to discuss?	05:11
juhp	bug 518395	05:12
buggbot	Bug https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=518395 medium, low, ---, anaconda-maint-list, NEW, add @input-methods to Package Selection screen	05:12
juhp	looking increasingly unlikely	05:12
dychen	juhp: So we still install every im by default? :-P	05:14
juhp	that is what we are still doing for now	05:14
juhp	I don't really want to make any change until we have a reliable easy way of doing post-install	05:15
juhp	perhaps we should just add a uninstall script to ibus ;-P	05:15
tagoh3	heh	05:16
juhp	I noticed that ubuntu actually does something like that on their live spins: removing unwanted packages at the end	05:17
juhp	of installation	05:17
juhp	but anyway	05:17
juhp	might make sense to uninstall IMEs for other langs at that time but that is another issue	05:17
juhp	tagoh3: do you think it is worth the pain to turn off @input-methods for f12?	05:18
dychen	juhp: But users have to specify want/unwant at some point anyway.	05:19
juhp	indeed	05:19
juhp	dychen: they can still do going down into the package customization menu	05:19
tagoh3	juhp: hmm, dunno. it may depends on how many people uses IM on non-CIJK languages.	05:20
juhp	of course appearing on the top-level would be much easier - though it doesn't solve the I only want one IME problem	05:20
juhp	tagoh3: enough to make their questions common anyway iirc	05:21
dychen	juhp: Not sure it is appropriate to specify the IM on regional setting.	05:22
dychen	Kaio: What does Window 7/Vista do about this issue?	05:22
phuang_	dychen, it is a solution	05:22
juhp	dychen: yeah perhaps better not to install and auto-install on login? though it is a bit annoying	05:23
juhp	dychen: region setting?	05:23
dychen	phuang_: Yeah , I think Win XP (and 2000 maybe) do in that way.	05:23
juhp	anyway I am proposing to postpone this to f13...	05:23
phuang_	dychen, I think Window has different localization versions. And each version will install default IME for the location	05:23
juhp	right	05:24
tagoh3	juhp: yeah.. and that requires restarting desktop..	05:24
juhp	hmm	05:24
dychen	phuang_: They do, and for english version, you can also set IM in region setting.	05:24
juhp	tagoh3: can't we starting ibus after that?	05:24
juhp	and imsettings	05:25
tagoh3	juhp: we can if we don't care of xim	05:25
juhp	ah yeah	05:25
juhp	well maybe for first session it is ok	05:26
phuang_	dychen, yeah. But it does't install IMEs in install-time. Or maybe installed some, but does not enable any ime	05:26
tagoh3	juhp: or we can't - guess imsettings won't be installed without IM deps, so far at least.	05:26
dychen	phuang_: Yes they do. You can tick the Asian language support during the installation.	05:28
juhp	tagoh3: perhaps we could install imsettings by default?	05:28
juhp	anyway	05:29
tagoh3	juhp: yep	05:29
dychen	phuang_: http://pcsupport.about.com/od/operatingsystems/ss/installxpnew2_3.htm	05:29
phuang_	dychen, right	05:29
juhp	how is rawhide fontconfig?	05:30
paragan	we got new fontconfig-2.7.2 in rawhide now	05:30
juhp	bug 518161	05:30
buggbot	Bug https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=518161 medium, low, ---, besfahbo, NEW, "contains" expression seems not working on the fontconfig rule	05:30
paragan	will be testing it with new lohit-fonts-2.4.2	05:31
* juhp notes it is being pushed to f11 too		05:31
juhp	paragan: cool	05:31
paragan	yes	05:31
juhp	(should be interesting;)	05:31
paragan	we also plan to split lohit-fonts in per font tarball release	05:32
juhp	hmm guess devel might have been enough for now ;)	05:32
juhp	paragan: aha	05:32
paragan	yes devel is enough for now	05:33
juhp	(I meant fontconfig:)	05:33
juhp	anyway hope there is time to test fontconfig in rawhide before f11 gets pushed...	05:33
paragan	yes	05:34
juhp	wonder if that is the only change	05:34
pravins	splitting lohit-fonts will be really good for maintenance as well	05:34
juhp	pravins: ok - sounds good then :)	05:35
paragan	juhp, I see changelog which shows 10 commits since 2.7.1	05:35
juhp	aha	05:35
paragan	3 of them for Windows	05:36
juhp	hm	05:36
pravins	next topic ^^	05:40
juhp	phuang_: the new ibus icon looks different!	05:40
phuang_	juhp, You saw the new icon?	05:41
juhp	yeah :)	05:41
phuang_	juhp, I have built the new ibus include the new icons	05:41
juhp	different to the old one I mean :)	05:41
juhp	thanks	05:41
juhp	just getting used to it :)	05:41
phuang_	No	05:41
juhp	?	05:41
phuang_	Just installed a set of icons in different size	05:42
juhp	aha	05:42
phuang_	The last ibus uses 48x48, so the it looks not good	05:42
juhp	ok	05:42
juhp	any other topics to discuss today?	05:43
pravins	harfbuzz indic test suit	05:43
pravins	there are some discussion goind on harfbuzz list for making harfbuzz rendering engine compatible to new OT SPec	05:44
juhp	recent rawhide seems ok to me mostly - though I had to install from a old-ish image to avoid anaconda backtraces	05:44
pravins	same as Uniscribe	05:44
juhp	pravins: I see - interesting	05:44
juhp	does pango look ok?	05:44
pravins	so behdad requested test cases for indic	05:44
juhp	aha	05:44
pravins	he want o/p as >OUTPUT: <1,0,0>,<5,10,30>	05:44
pravins	>>Where the output tuples are glyph id, X and Y.	05:44
juhp	hm	05:45
pravins	anyone knows whats this glyph id and x, y??	05:45
pravins	i was trying to prepare first draft for same	05:45
juhp	maybe better to ask?	05:46
pravins	hmm	05:46
pravins	but new OT specs 1.6 has lots of changes	05:46
pravins	many new feature tags are introduces in it	05:47
pravins	for indic script	05:47
pravins	might we will need to update lohit-fonts as well with this new feature may be	05:47
pravins	http://www.microsoft.com/typography/SpecificationsOverview.mspx	05:48
juhp	tagoh3: will we rename knm_new-fonts?	05:48
juhp	pravins: hmm dunno - guess it might be a lot of work?	05:49
tagoh3	juhp: hmm, sure - I'm not still fully understanding though.	05:50
pravins	yeah, but firstly rendering engine need update w.r.t OT spec	05:50
juhp	ah yeah	05:50
juhp	pravins: not sure if/when that might happen?	05:50
pravins	this work is going on for harfbuzz	05:51
juhp	tagoh3: sounds like underscore breaks fontspackages, so might be easiest or as you mentioned do a workaround in package?	05:52
juhp	aha	05:52
tagoh3	juhp: right	05:52
juhp	hope mailhot can fix droid issue before beta...	05:52
tagoh3	juhp: well, that makes sense if we do get rid of any exceptions from the policy though.	05:53
juhp	tagoh3: aha - so there are already other exceptions?	05:53
tagoh3	there are some - not font specific but in the package naming policy.	05:53
juhp	ok sure	05:54
juhp	tagoh3: is knm_new installed by default for ja now?	05:54
tagoh3	juhp: I don't think so	05:54
juhp	ok	05:54
juhp	paragan: do FTBFS have to be priority/severity high??	05:55
paragan	I guess no	05:56
paragan	cause we are having source but just its upstream verification can not be done as upstream url is down	05:56
juhp	paragan: for fonts-ISO8859-2 ?	05:56
paragan	oh! is it set to high?	05:57
juhp	all (3) of them, yes	05:57
juhp	dychen: any idea about UnihanDb?	05:58
paragan	then reporter considered it as High priority	05:58
juhp	paragan: they are filed by ftbfs :)	05:58
juhp	bug 511680	05:58
buggbot	Bug https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=511680 high, high, ---, pnemade, ASSIGNED, FTBFS fonts-ISO8859-2-1.0-20.fc11	05:58
juhp	bug 511482	05:59
buggbot	Bug https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=511482 high, high, ---, dchen, ASSIGNED, FTBFS UnihanDb-5.1.0-7.fc11.1	05:59
paragan	and that is nirik I guess	05:59
dychen	juhp: That's because it tooks too long to build.	05:59
juhp	please have a look anyway	05:59
juhp	dychen: haha	05:59
juhp	hmm	05:59
dychen	So I was profiling it.	05:59
juhp	ok	05:59
juhp	I see	05:59
juhp	please add a comment anyway	05:59
juhp	anyway let's stop the meeting here if noone has anything else needing attention?	06:00
fujiwarat	phuang_: tagoh3: Do you know any background of ibus-anthy icon?	06:01
juhp	fujiwarat: scim-anthy?	06:01
* paragan closed bug 511680		06:02
buggbot	Bug https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=511680 high, high, ---, pnemade, CLOSED RAWHIDE, FTBFS fonts-ISO8859-2-1.0-20.fc11	06:02
phuang_	yeah	06:02
* juhp wishes we could change it to something more meaningful		06:02
fujiwarat	It's crown icon.	06:02
phuang_	ifrom scim-anthy	06:02
tagoh3	from scim-anthy	06:02
juhp	fujiwarat: or you mean the upstream story?	06:02
phuang_	I don't know why crown	06:02
fujiwarat	I checked anthy home page but there is no icon.	06:03
juhp	fujiwarat: translating, ashie-san wrote "don't ask... ever" iirc	06:03
juhp	in his blog long ago	06:03
juhp	or maybe on the mailing list?	06:03
fujiwarat	Personally I don't like the icon :)	06:03
juhp	fujiwarat: me neither	06:03
juhp	I encouraged tagoh3 to change it for fedora for scim-anthy ;-P	06:04
dychen	fujiwarat: You can "borrow" gcin's jp icon. :-P	06:04
tagoh3	it should be a user contribution - just a hope to becomes a king of japanese IM IIRC	06:04
fujiwarat	tagoh3: thx	06:04
juhp	fujiwarat: how about stealing an icon from uim say?	06:04
tagoh3	juhp: what's the icon?	06:05
juhp	like あ	06:05
fujiwarat	It's ok if it was suitable from scim-anthy.	06:05
fujiwarat	If it can be changed, I'd like to consider the design.	06:05
tagoh3	juhp: it's not for IM icon but to indicate the input mode. they use the same crown for IME icon though.	06:05
juhp	anyway my "secret" disruptive plan is to try to get rid of the ibus IME icons completely if possible ;o)	06:05
juhp	do they? hmm	06:06
juhp	maybe I hid it or misremember perhaps	06:06
juhp	haven't played with uim in a while anyway	06:07
juhp	fujiwarat: anyway I support changing the ibus-anthy icon	06:07
tagoh3	need to create new one from scratch if we want to replace	06:07
juhp	tagoh3: why?	06:07
juhp	fujiwarat: any ideas for a replacement?	06:07
tagoh3	juhp: no better icons for _anthy_ I meant :)	06:08
juhp	I think あ icon would be an improvement	06:08
tagoh3	juhp: aha - thought you don't like a crown anyway	06:08
juhp	I don't see a strong need for something anthy specific	06:08
juhp	tagoh3: I don't	06:08
fujiwarat	Yes, right. I just thought alphabet 'A' with red pen ;)	06:09
juhp	it is completely meaningless IMHO	06:09
juhp	fujiwarat: A for anthy? hmm I dunno	06:09
juhp	(the crown I meant)	06:09
juhp	maybe we just need a different UI anyway	06:10
juhp	at least the new ibus icon made me think so :-/	06:10
tagoh3	juhp: just imagine from "improvement" you are about to work on it which is based on a crown icon, but anyway.	06:11
fujiwarat	Probably we may discuss this later. I just wanted to know the background.	06:11
juhp	tagoh3: better crown? :)	06:12
tagoh3	juhp: heh. you said you don't like a crown :)	06:12
juhp	fujiwarat: I agree if anthy adopted some meaningful icon that would be better	06:12
juhp	tagoh3: I just trying to parse :)	06:13
tagoh3	sure	06:13
juhp	dunno I only suggested using something like uim's ja_hiragana.svg	06:14
juhp	fujiwarat: sure - hope we can ship something better that makes sense	06:15
fujiwarat	OK, I see.	06:15
juhp	thanks for bringing it up :)	06:16
juhp	#endmeeting	06:17

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