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=== Fedora Classroom - Making text exquisit, worldwide: Packaging Fonts in Fedora - Nicolas Mailhot - Sunday, December 7, 2008 ===
#REDIRECT [[Packaging_fonts_in_Fedora_(2008-12-07_classroom)]]
 
{|
|- id="tDec 07 05:15:00"
| colspan="2" | ---nirik has changed the topic to: Fedora IRC Classroom - Making text exquisite, worldwide — packaging fonts in Fedora with your teacher Nicolas Mailhot (nim-nim) - See https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/IRC/Classroom for schedule of classes today.
|| [[#tDec 07 05:15:00|Dec 07 05:15]]
|- id="tDec 07 05:15:08"
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|| [[#tDec 07 05:15:08|Dec 07 05:15]]
|- id="tDec 07 05:15:18"
! style="background-color: #407a40" | nirik
| style="color: #407a40" | take it away nim-nim...
|| [[#tDec 07 05:15:18|Dec 07 05:15]]
|- id="tDec 07 05:15:37"
! style="background-color: #42427e" | nim-nim
| style="color: #42427e" | nirik: ok thanks
|| [[#tDec 07 05:15:37|Dec 07 05:15]]
|- id="tDec 07 05:15:50"
! style="background-color: #42427e" | nim-nim
| style="color: #42427e" | welcome everyone
|| [[#tDec 07 05:15:50|Dec 07 05:15]]
|- id="tDec 07 05:16:10"
! style="background-color: #42427e" | nim-nim
| style="color: #42427e" | the next hour will be dedicated to fonts packaging in Fedora
|| [[#tDec 07 05:16:10|Dec 07 05:16]]
|- id="tDec 07 05:16:22"
! style="background-color: #42427e" | nim-nim
| style="color: #42427e" | there are many aspects to fonts packaging
|| [[#tDec 07 05:16:22|Dec 07 05:16]]
|- id="tDec 07 05:16:43"
! style="background-color: #42427e" | nim-nim
| style="color: #42427e" | like why package fonts, how to package them, what are the usual problems
|| [[#tDec 07 05:16:43|Dec 07 05:16]]
|- id="tDec 07 05:17:03"
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|| [[#tDec 07 05:17:03|Dec 07 05:17]]
|- id="tDec 07 05:17:23"
! style="background-color: #42427e" | nim-nim
| style="color: #42427e" | and I'll orient the session depending on the audience questions
|| [[#tDec 07 05:17:23|Dec 07 05:17]]
|- id="tDec 07 05:17:47"
! style="background-color: #42427e" | nim-nim
| style="color: #42427e" | so before I start, are there any special questions you want treated today?
|| [[#tDec 07 05:17:47|Dec 07 05:17]]
|- id="tDec 07 05:18:38"
| colspan="2" | *nirik notes that packaging fonts is a great way to get into packaging in fedora...
|| [[#tDec 07 05:18:38|Dec 07 05:18]]
|- id="tDec 07 05:18:53"
! style="background-color: #42427e" | nim-nim
| style="color: #42427e" | nirik: thank you
|| [[#tDec 07 05:18:53|Dec 07 05:18]]
|- id="tDec 07 05:18:58"
! style="background-color: #42427e" | nim-nim
| style="color: #42427e" | anyone else?
|| [[#tDec 07 05:18:58|Dec 07 05:18]]
|- id="tDec 07 05:19:12"
! style="background-color: #818144" | dgrift
| style="color: #818144" | yes
|| [[#tDec 07 05:19:12|Dec 07 05:19]]
|- id="tDec 07 05:19:22"
! style="background-color: #818144" | dgrift
| style="color: #818144" | is there an example for a spec file?
|| [[#tDec 07 05:19:22|Dec 07 05:19]]
|- id="tDec 07 05:19:25"
! style="background-color: #854685" | pierremarc
| style="color: #854685" | I’ve some, "Fedora packages and rest of the world"
|| [[#tDec 07 05:19:25|Dec 07 05:19]]
|- id="tDec 07 05:19:26"
| colspan="2" | <--hanthana has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
|| [[#tDec 07 05:19:26|Dec 07 05:19]]
|- id="tDec 07 05:19:53"
! style="background-color: #854685" | pierremarc
| style="color: #854685" | dgrift: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Packaging/FontsSpecTemplate
|| [[#tDec 07 05:19:53|Dec 07 05:19]]
|- id="tDec 07 05:19:58"
! style="background-color: #818144" | dgrift
| style="color: #818144" | thanks
|| [[#tDec 07 05:19:58|Dec 07 05:19]]
|- id="tDec 07 05:20:03"
! style="background-color: #42427e" | nim-nim
| style="color: #42427e" | dgrift, pierremarc: thanks, I'll try to treat this
|| [[#tDec 07 05:20:03|Dec 07 05:20]]
|- id="tDec 07 05:20:21"
! style="background-color: #42427e" | nim-nim
| style="color: #42427e" | if anyone else has a specific question do not hesitate to interupt me
|| [[#tDec 07 05:20:21|Dec 07 05:20]]
|- id="tDec 07 05:20:40"
! style="background-color: #42427e" | nim-nim
| style="color: #42427e" | anyway, let's start
|| [[#tDec 07 05:20:40|Dec 07 05:20]]
|- id="tDec 07 05:20:49"
! style="background-color: #42427e" | nim-nim
| style="color: #42427e" | why package fonts:
|| [[#tDec 07 05:20:49|Dec 07 05:20]]
|- id="tDec 07 05:21:08"
! style="background-color: #42427e" | nim-nim
| style="color: #42427e" | our computer interaction is ovewhelmingly text-based
|| [[#tDec 07 05:21:08|Dec 07 05:21]]
|- id="tDec 07 05:21:19"
! style="background-color: #42427e" | nim-nim
| style="color: #42427e" | without fonts you can not display text
|| [[#tDec 07 05:21:19|Dec 07 05:21]]
|- id="tDec 07 05:21:34"
! style="background-color: #42427e" | nim-nim
| style="color: #42427e" | fonts are difficult for users to find and install
|| [[#tDec 07 05:21:34|Dec 07 05:21]]
|- id="tDec 07 05:21:38"
! style="background-color: #42427e" | nim-nim
| style="color: #42427e" | legaly
|| [[#tDec 07 05:21:38|Dec 07 05:21]]
|- id="tDec 07 05:21:47"
! style="background-color: #42427e" | nim-nim
| style="color: #42427e" | (this is Fedora)
|| [[#tDec 07 05:21:47|Dec 07 05:21]]
|- id="tDec 07 05:22:26"
! style="background-color: #42427e" | nim-nim
| style="color: #42427e" | For example the Vista font pack can only be bought with Vista or by paying something like ~ 300$ to Ascender
|| [[#tDec 07 05:22:26|Dec 07 05:22]]
|- id="tDec 07 05:23:02"
! style="background-color: #42427e" | nim-nim
| style="color: #42427e" | And thus Fedora needs to provide a good font complement by default for our users
|| [[#tDec 07 05:23:02|Dec 07 05:23]]
|- id="tDec 07 05:23:20"
! style="background-color: #42427e" | nim-nim
| style="color: #42427e" | because we do not want them to waste time looking for fonts
|| [[#tDec 07 05:23:20|Dec 07 05:23]]
|- id="tDec 07 05:23:42"
! style="background-color: #42427e" | nim-nim
| style="color: #42427e" | or getting sued because they used a random font on the Internet which happened to be protected
|| [[#tDec 07 05:23:42|Dec 07 05:23]]
|- id="tDec 07 05:24:22"
! style="background-color: #42427e" | nim-nim
| style="color: #42427e" | this is especially true for "free" font sites like dafont, but also for historic Linux font sources
|| [[#tDec 07 05:24:22|Dec 07 05:24]]
|- id="tDec 07 05:25:05"
! style="background-color: #42427e" | nim-nim
| style="color: #42427e" | When Xorg was audited for Fedora 9 we had to drop the historic Red Hat default font, Luxi, for licensing reasons
|| [[#tDec 07 05:25:05|Dec 07 05:25]]
|- id="tDec 07 05:25:08"
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|| [[#tDec 07 05:25:16|Dec 07 05:25]]
|- id="tDec 07 05:25:36"
! style="background-color: #42427e" | nim-nim
| style="color: #42427e" | the other historic font source for Linux is TEX, and the current legal audit looks grim
|| [[#tDec 07 05:25:36|Dec 07 05:25]]
|- id="tDec 07 05:25:53"
! style="background-color: #42427e" | nim-nim
| style="color: #42427e" | so there is a big need to package new clean fonts
|| [[#tDec 07 05:25:53|Dec 07 05:25]]
|- id="tDec 07 05:26:24"
! style="background-color: #42427e" | nim-nim
| style="color: #42427e" | especially since some of them are needed by populations which had no computer access before unicode standardised their script
|| [[#tDec 07 05:26:24|Dec 07 05:26]]
|- id="tDec 07 05:26:49"
! style="background-color: #42427e" | nim-nim
| style="color: #42427e" | and now it *is* standardised, we need to find fonts that support the new official encoding
|| [[#tDec 07 05:26:49|Dec 07 05:26]]
|- id="tDec 07 05:27:01"
! style="background-color: #42427e" | nim-nim
| style="color: #42427e" | so people can read their own language
|| [[#tDec 07 05:27:01|Dec 07 05:27]]
|- id="tDec 07 05:27:30"
! style="background-color: #42427e" | nim-nim
| style="color: #42427e" | (the next i18n steps being addition of an input method and general distribution localisation)
|| [[#tDec 07 05:27:30|Dec 07 05:27]]
|- id="tDec 07 05:27:40"
! style="background-color: #42427e" | nim-nim
| style="color: #42427e" | but it all starts from fonts
|| [[#tDec 07 05:27:40|Dec 07 05:27]]
|- id="tDec 07 05:27:54"
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|- id="tDec 07 05:27:55"
! style="background-color: #42427e" | nim-nim
| style="color: #42427e" | also, sometimes specialised communities need a special font
|| [[#tDec 07 05:27:55|Dec 07 05:27]]
|- id="tDec 07 05:28:00"
! style="background-color: #42427e" | nim-nim
| style="color: #42427e" | we need to provide them too
|| [[#tDec 07 05:28:00|Dec 07 05:28]]
|- id="tDec 07 05:28:04"
! style="background-color: #42427e" | nim-nim
| style="color: #42427e" | for example
|| [[#tDec 07 05:28:04|Dec 07 05:28]]
|- id="tDec 07 05:28:09"
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|- id="tDec 07 05:28:11"
! style="background-color: #42427e" | nim-nim
| style="color: #42427e" | http://www.jem-thematic.net/fi/node/538
|| [[#tDec 07 05:28:11|Dec 07 05:28]]
|- id="tDec 07 05:28:29"
! style="background-color: #407a40" | nirik
| style="color: #407a40" | question: should we want to package any legally available font, or are some better than others? is there any way to tell? Or is better all subjective?
|| [[#tDec 07 05:28:29|Dec 07 05:28]]
|- id="tDec 07 05:28:47"
! style="background-color: #488888" | abattis
| style="color: #488888" | i think any legally available font
|| [[#tDec 07 05:28:47|Dec 07 05:28]]
|- id="tDec 07 05:28:58"
! style="background-color: #488888" | abattis
| style="color: #488888" | at the first order
|| [[#tDec 07 05:28:58|Dec 07 05:28]]
|- id="tDec 07 05:29:01"
! style="background-color: #42427e" | nim-nim
| style="color: #42427e" | nirik: the vast majority of fonts is not legally available
|| [[#tDec 07 05:29:01|Dec 07 05:29]]
|- id="tDec 07 05:29:07"
! style="background-color: #42427e" | nim-nim
| style="color: #42427e" | that reduces the scope a lot
|| [[#tDec 07 05:29:07|Dec 07 05:29]]
|- id="tDec 07 05:29:10"
| colspan="2" | *nirik nods.
|| [[#tDec 07 05:29:10|Dec 07 05:29]]
|- id="tDec 07 05:29:29"
! style="background-color: #488888" | abattis
| style="color: #488888" | but, if there is say gentium and a fork of gentium, it would be good to try and get the forked version merged upstream if it is not radically different
|| [[#tDec 07 05:29:29|Dec 07 05:29]]
|- id="tDec 07 05:29:32"
! style="background-color: #42427e" | nim-nim
| style="color: #42427e" | and then of course you can always ask on the fonts SIG mailing list where to start from
|| [[#tDec 07 05:29:32|Dec 07 05:29]]
|- id="tDec 07 05:29:36"
! style="background-color: #488888" | abattis
| style="color: #488888" | this must all happen from discussion with devlopers
|| [[#tDec 07 05:29:36|Dec 07 05:29]]
|- id="tDec 07 05:29:53"
! style="background-color: #42427e" | nim-nim
| style="color: #42427e" | but we tend to let people package the fonts they want to package
|| [[#tDec 07 05:29:53|Dec 07 05:29]]
|- id="tDec 07 05:30:11"
! style="background-color: #42427e" | nim-nim
| style="color: #42427e" | not tell them "forget about your font, package this one instead"
|| [[#tDec 07 05:30:11|Dec 07 05:30]]
|- id="tDec 07 05:30:47"
| colspan="2" | <--stmg has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
|| [[#tDec 07 05:30:47|Dec 07 05:30]]
|- id="tDec 07 05:31:02"
! style="background-color: #42427e" | nim-nim
| style="color: #42427e" | art people will want to package decorative fonts, i18n people to increase the unicode coverage of the distribution
|| [[#tDec 07 05:31:02|Dec 07 05:31]]
|- id="tDec 07 05:31:12"
! style="background-color: #42427e" | nim-nim
| style="color: #42427e" | I'm personnaly more on the i18n part
|| [[#tDec 07 05:31:12|Dec 07 05:31]]
|- id="tDec 07 05:31:37"
! style="background-color: #42427e" | nim-nim
| style="color: #42427e" | For people who haven't seen it, here is the current Fedora font wishlist
|| [[#tDec 07 05:31:37|Dec 07 05:31]]
|- id="tDec 07 05:31:39"
! style="background-color: #42427e" | nim-nim
| style="color: #42427e" | http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Category:Font_wishlist
|| [[#tDec 07 05:31:39|Dec 07 05:31]]
|- id="tDec 07 05:32:04"
! style="background-color: #42427e" | nim-nim
| style="color: #42427e" | pierremarc: does that answer your question?
|| [[#tDec 07 05:32:04|Dec 07 05:32]]
|- id="tDec 07 05:32:15"
! style="background-color: #854685" | pierremarc
| style="color: #854685" | not yet :)
|| [[#tDec 07 05:32:15|Dec 07 05:32]]
|- id="tDec 07 05:32:32"
! style="background-color: #42427e" | nim-nim
| style="color: #42427e" | pierremarc: can you expand on it a bit then?
|| [[#tDec 07 05:32:32|Dec 07 05:32]]
|- id="tDec 07 05:32:50"
! style="background-color: #854685" | pierremarc
| style="color: #854685" | Mainly on the question of Fedora packages and rest of the world.
|| [[#tDec 07 05:32:50|Dec 07 05:32]]
|- id="tDec 07 05:32:50"
! style="background-color: #854685" | pierremarc
| style="color: #854685" | example: at http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Packaging/FontsSpecTemplate I see that packagers are invited and guided to file the %description field of the spec file. As TTFs have such an entry in NAME table, how would it be possible to have both fields synced, and even better, description made available upstream (as it’s rarely filed by font "maker").
|| [[#tDec 07 05:32:50|Dec 07 05:32]]
|- id="tDec 07 05:32:50"
! style="background-color: #854685" | pierremarc
| style="color: #854685" | Panose: Riku found an LGPL piece of code that implements Panose algo. to compute distance between 2 Panose numbers. We quickly experimented it in fontmatrix and it rocks, modulo non {O,T}TFs fonts and those which have inconsistant Panose number. Could it be a requirement (AFAIK it used to be for windows fonts) or any other means which would provide an equivalent service?
|| [[#tDec 07 05:32:50|Dec 07 05:32]]
|- id="tDec 07 05:32:52"
! style="background-color: #854685" | pierremarc
| style="color: #854685" | I know, since you’ve wrote it a couple of time, that you’re not fond of embedded meta-data in font files. But you did always have a strong requirement only for separate Licence text file, wouldn’t not be possible to have complete meta-data human readble text file and a set of utilities to merge it in a font file?
|| [[#tDec 07 05:32:52|Dec 07 05:32]]
|- id="tDec 07 05:32:59"
! style="background-color: #854685" | pierremarc
| style="color: #854685" | i’ve prepared them
|| [[#tDec 07 05:32:59|Dec 07 05:32]]
|- id="tDec 07 05:33:58"
! style="background-color: #42427e" | nim-nim
| style="color: #42427e" | pierremarc: well, this is more an "how" question than a "why" question
|| [[#tDec 07 05:33:58|Dec 07 05:33]]
|- id="tDec 07 05:34:09"
! style="background-color: #42427e" | nim-nim
| style="color: #42427e" | pierremarc: I start on "how" then
|| [[#tDec 07 05:34:09|Dec 07 05:34]]
|- id="tDec 07 05:34:22"
| colspan="2" | -->sertac (n=sertac@88.254.214.230) has joined #fedora-classroom
|| [[#tDec 07 05:34:22|Dec 07 05:34]]
|- id="tDec 07 05:34:35"
! style="background-color: #42427e" | nim-nim
| style="color: #42427e" | as most of you know, Fedora uses the rpm package format
|| [[#tDec 07 05:34:35|Dec 07 05:34]]
|- id="tDec 07 05:35:12"
! style="background-color: #42427e" | nim-nim
| style="color: #42427e" | creating an rpm is more or less writing a "spec" file, that references an external archive
|| [[#tDec 07 05:35:12|Dec 07 05:35]]
|- id="tDec 07 05:35:36"
! style="background-color: #42427e" | nim-nim
| style="color: #42427e" | adds some information about what is in the archive
|| [[#tDec 07 05:35:36|Dec 07 05:35]]
|- id="tDec 07 05:35:54"
! style="background-color: #42427e" | nim-nim
| style="color: #42427e" | and tells rpm how to build files and deploy them on the system
|| [[#tDec 07 05:35:54|Dec 07 05:35]]
|- id="tDec 07 05:36:20"
! style="background-color: #42427e" | nim-nim
| style="color: #42427e" | as nirik noted, fonts tend to have very simple deployment requirements
|| [[#tDec 07 05:36:20|Dec 07 05:36]]
|- id="tDec 07 05:36:46"
! style="background-color: #42427e" | nim-nim
| style="color: #42427e" | so packaging a few fonts is a great way to learn Fedora packaging
|| [[#tDec 07 05:36:46|Dec 07 05:36]]
|- id="tDec 07 05:36:52"
! style="background-color: #42427e" | nim-nim
| style="color: #42427e" | and get involved in Fedora
|| [[#tDec 07 05:36:52|Dec 07 05:36]]
|- id="tDec 07 05:37:15"
! style="background-color: #42427e" | nim-nim
| style="color: #42427e" | you usually don't have the build complexity found in most packages
|| [[#tDec 07 05:37:15|Dec 07 05:37]]
|- id="tDec 07 05:37:54"
! style="background-color: #42427e" | nim-nim
| style="color: #42427e" | the current Fedora font spec template is here http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Packaging/FontsSpecTemplate
|| [[#tDec 07 05:37:54|Dec 07 05:37]]
|- id="tDec 07 05:38:11"
! style="background-color: #42427e" | nim-nim
| style="color: #42427e" | in the Fedora fonts sig Packaging section
|| [[#tDec 07 05:38:11|Dec 07 05:38]]
|- id="tDec 07 05:38:19"
! style="background-color: #42427e" | nim-nim
| style="color: #42427e" | http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Category:Fonts_packaging
|| [[#tDec 07 05:38:19|Dec 07 05:38]]
|- id="tDec 07 05:38:41"
! style="background-color: #42427e" | nim-nim
| style="color: #42427e" | you can find real-world instanciations of this template in the Fedora cvs
|| [[#tDec 07 05:38:41|Dec 07 05:38]]
|- id="tDec 07 05:39:33"
! style="background-color: #42427e" | nim-nim
| style="color: #42427e" | for example http://cvs.fedoraproject.org/viewvc/devel/gfs-neohellenic-fonts/gfs-neohellenic-fonts.spec?revision=1.5&view=markup
|| [[#tDec 07 05:39:33|Dec 07 05:39]]
|- id="tDec 07 05:40:05"
! style="background-color: #42427e" | nim-nim
| style="color: #42427e" | we've spent a lot of time making it as simple as possible
|| [[#tDec 07 05:40:05|Dec 07 05:40]]
|- id="tDec 07 05:40:44"
! style="background-color: #42427e" | nim-nim
| style="color: #42427e" | for fedora 11 we plan to make it even simpler by moving some script complexity out of the template
|| [[#tDec 07 05:40:44|Dec 07 05:40]]
|- id="tDec 07 05:41:00"
! style="background-color: #42427e" | nim-nim
| style="color: #42427e" | the current project is here http://nim.fedorapeople.org/fontpackages/fontpackages-1.10.tar.bz2
|| [[#tDec 07 05:41:00|Dec 07 05:41]]
|- id="tDec 07 05:41:30"
! style="background-color: #42427e" | nim-nim
| style="color: #42427e" | pierremarc: we would welcome tools to add to this project
|| [[#tDec 07 05:41:30|Dec 07 05:41]]
|- id="tDec 07 05:41:55"
! style="background-color: #42427e" | nim-nim
| style="color: #42427e" | pierremarc: that helped populate a template from font metadata information
|| [[#tDec 07 05:41:55|Dec 07 05:41]]
|- id="tDec 07 05:42:28"
! style="background-color: #854685" | pierremarc
| style="color: #854685" | Ah, could be done easily, will do it tonight.
|| [[#tDec 07 05:42:28|Dec 07 05:42]]
|- id="tDec 07 05:42:31"
! style="background-color: #42427e" | nim-nim
| style="color: #42427e" | pierremarc: or conversely transform information in a spec file in something that can be injected in the font files
|| [[#tDec 07 05:42:31|Dec 07 05:42]]
|- id="tDec 07 05:42:48"
! style="background-color: #854685" | pierremarc
| style="color: #854685" | that’s harder :)
|| [[#tDec 07 05:42:48|Dec 07 05:42]]
|- id="tDec 07 05:42:54"
! style="background-color: #854685" | pierremarc
| style="color: #854685" | but can be done too
|| [[#tDec 07 05:42:54|Dec 07 05:42]]
|- id="tDec 07 05:43:01"
! style="background-color: #42427e" | nim-nim
| style="color: #42427e" | the spec files are usually in English only
|| [[#tDec 07 05:43:01|Dec 07 05:43]]
|- id="tDec 07 05:43:20"
! style="background-color: #42427e" | nim-nim
| style="color: #42427e" | but once published, they are translated by the fine Fedora localization teams
|| [[#tDec 07 05:43:20|Dec 07 05:43]]
|- id="tDec 07 05:43:48"
! style="background-color: #42427e" | nim-nim
| style="color: #42427e" | dgrift: I think we're getting to your kind of question here
|| [[#tDec 07 05:43:48|Dec 07 05:43]]
|- id="tDec 07 05:44:07"
! style="background-color: #42427e" | nim-nim
| style="color: #42427e" | dgrift: do you have any specific question about our font template(s) ?
|| [[#tDec 07 05:44:07|Dec 07 05:44]]
|- id="tDec 07 05:44:49"
! style="background-color: #42427e" | nim-nim
| style="color: #42427e" | anyone else?
|| [[#tDec 07 05:44:49|Dec 07 05:44]]
|- id="tDec 07 05:45:20"
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|| [[#tDec 07 05:45:20|Dec 07 05:45]]
|- id="tDec 07 05:45:58"
! style="background-color: #42427e" | nim-nim
| style="color: #42427e" | ok, I'll do a very short description then
|| [[#tDec 07 05:45:58|Dec 07 05:45]]
|- id="tDec 07 05:46:04"
! style="background-color: #42427e" | nim-nim
| style="color: #42427e" | if you open the http://nim.fedorapeople.org/fontpackages/fontpackages-1.10.tar.bz2 archive
|| [[#tDec 07 05:46:04|Dec 07 05:46]]
|- id="tDec 07 05:46:57"
! style="background-color: #42427e" | nim-nim
| style="color: #42427e" | and look at the "simple" spec template in the spec-templates/ directory
|| [[#tDec 07 05:46:57|Dec 07 05:46]]
|- id="tDec 07 05:47:50"
! style="background-color: #42427e" | nim-nim
| style="color: #42427e" | you see a spec template is basically
|| [[#tDec 07 05:47:50|Dec 07 05:47]]
|- id="tDec 07 05:47:50"
! style="background-color: #42427e" | nim-nim
| style="color: #42427e" | 1. metadata declaration
|| [[#tDec 07 05:47:50|Dec 07 05:47]]
|- id="tDec 07 05:47:50"
! style="background-color: #42427e" | nim-nim
| style="color: #42427e" | 2. build information
|| [[#tDec 07 05:47:50|Dec 07 05:47]]
|- id="tDec 07 05:47:50"
! style="background-color: #42427e" | nim-nim
| style="color: #42427e" | 3. changelog
|| [[#tDec 07 05:47:50|Dec 07 05:47]]
|- id="tDec 07 05:48:17"
! style="background-color: #42427e" | nim-nim
| style="color: #42427e" | the first easy part is the metadata
|| [[#tDec 07 05:48:17|Dec 07 05:48]]
|- id="tDec 07 05:48:40"
! style="background-color: #42427e" | nim-nim
| style="color: #42427e" | how the package will be named, what its version is, etc
|| [[#tDec 07 05:48:40|Dec 07 05:48]]
|- id="tDec 07 05:48:51"
! style="background-color: #818144" | dgrift
| style="color: #818144" | nim-nim no its all clear, a good spec speaks a thousand words
|| [[#tDec 07 05:48:51|Dec 07 05:48]]
|- id="tDec 07 05:49:03"
! style="background-color: #818144" | dgrift
| style="color: #818144" | was a bit pre-occupied sorry
|| [[#tDec 07 05:49:03|Dec 07 05:49]]
|- id="tDec 07 05:49:16"
! style="background-color: #42427e" | nim-nim
| style="color: #42427e" | dgrift: no problem
|| [[#tDec 07 05:49:16|Dec 07 05:49]]
|- id="tDec 07 05:49:32"
! style="background-color: #42427e" | nim-nim
| style="color: #42427e" | dgrift: I'll still do it quickly for others
|| [[#tDec 07 05:49:32|Dec 07 05:49]]
|- id="tDec 07 05:49:38"
! style="background-color: #818144" | dgrift
| style="color: #818144" | thanks
|| [[#tDec 07 05:49:38|Dec 07 05:49]]
|- id="tDec 07 05:49:52"
! style="background-color: #42427e" | nim-nim
| style="color: #42427e" | to make life easier for our users we have some conventions
|| [[#tDec 07 05:49:52|Dec 07 05:49]]
|- id="tDec 07 05:49:58"
! style="background-color: #407a40" | nirik
| style="color: #407a40" | nim-nim: do you have a direct url link to the simple template you are talking about? (to help folks follow along)
|| [[#tDec 07 05:49:58|Dec 07 05:49]]
|- id="tDec 07 05:50:22"
! style="background-color: #42427e" | nim-nim
| style="color: #42427e" | nirik: not really, if you can do one while I write that would be neat
|| [[#tDec 07 05:50:22|Dec 07 05:50]]
|- id="tDec 07 05:50:33"
! style="background-color: #407a40" | nirik
| style="color: #407a40" | sure. no prob.
|| [[#tDec 07 05:50:33|Dec 07 05:50]]
|- id="tDec 07 05:50:47"
! style="background-color: #42427e" | nim-nim
| style="color: #42427e" | a font package is named something-fonts
|| [[#tDec 07 05:50:47|Dec 07 05:50]]
|- id="tDec 07 05:51:10"
! style="background-color: #42427e" | nim-nim
| style="color: #42427e" | with something being foundryname-fontname
|| [[#tDec 07 05:51:10|Dec 07 05:51]]
|- id="tDec 07 05:51:24"
! style="background-color: #42427e" | nim-nim
| style="color: #42427e" | what foundryname is is sometimes open to discussions
|| [[#tDec 07 05:51:24|Dec 07 05:51]]
|- id="tDec 07 05:51:48"
! style="background-color: #42427e" | nim-nim
| style="color: #42427e" | ask on the list http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Category:Fonts_SIG
|| [[#tDec 07 05:51:48|Dec 07 05:51]]
|- id="tDec 07 05:52:11"
! style="background-color: #42427e" | nim-nim
| style="color: #42427e" | also, when fontname includes font or fonts we really do not want to repeat it
|| [[#tDec 07 05:52:11|Dec 07 05:52]]
|- id="tDec 07 05:52:30"
! style="background-color: #42427e" | nim-nim
| style="color: #42427e" | so please do not propose foofont-fonts packages but only foo-fonts packages
|| [[#tDec 07 05:52:30|Dec 07 05:52]]
|- id="tDec 07 05:52:57"
! style="background-color: #42427e" | nim-nim
| style="color: #42427e" | the next tricky bit is the version
|| [[#tDec 07 05:52:57|Dec 07 05:52]]
|- id="tDec 07 05:53:02"
! style="background-color: #407a40" | nirik
| style="color: #407a40" | http://www.scrye.com/~kevin/fedora/fontpackages-1.10/spec-templates/spectemplate-fonts-simple.spec
|| [[#tDec 07 05:53:02|Dec 07 05:53]]
|- id="tDec 07 05:53:11"
! style="background-color: #42427e" | nim-nim
| style="color: #42427e" | nirik: thanks
|| [[#tDec 07 05:53:11|Dec 07 05:53]]
|- id="tDec 07 05:53:25"
! style="background-color: #407a40" | nirik
| style="color: #407a40" | (of course get the latest version from the tar.bz2 on nim-nim's page)
|| [[#tDec 07 05:53:25|Dec 07 05:53]]
|- id="tDec 07 05:53:35"
! style="background-color: #42427e" | nim-nim
| style="color: #42427e" | many font projects publish all their font changes with the same version
|| [[#tDec 07 05:53:35|Dec 07 05:53]]
|- id="tDec 07 05:53:36"
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|| [[#tDec 07 05:53:36|Dec 07 05:53]]
|- id="tDec 07 05:53:39"
! style="background-color: #42427e" | nim-nim
| style="color: #42427e" | usually 1.0
|| [[#tDec 07 05:53:39|Dec 07 05:53]]
|- id="tDec 07 05:53:57"
! style="background-color: #42427e" | nim-nim
| style="color: #42427e" | when you're not sure a font version is not a perpetual 1.0
|| [[#tDec 07 05:53:57|Dec 07 05:53]]
|- id="tDec 07 05:54:24"
! style="background-color: #42427e" | nim-nim
| style="color: #42427e" | save yourself grief and use the timestamp of the most recent font file as version
|| [[#tDec 07 05:54:24|Dec 07 05:54]]
|- id="tDec 07 05:54:28"
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|| [[#tDec 07 05:54:28|Dec 07 05:54]]
|- id="tDec 07 05:54:35"
! style="background-color: #42427e" | nim-nim
| style="color: #42427e" | for example 20081207
|| [[#tDec 07 05:54:35|Dec 07 05:54]]
|- id="tDec 07 05:54:58"
! style="background-color: #42427e" | nim-nim
| style="color: #42427e" | this is what the gfs spec does
|| [[#tDec 07 05:54:58|Dec 07 05:54]]
|- id="tDec 07 05:55:00"
! style="background-color: #42427e" | nim-nim
| style="color: #42427e" | http://cvs.fedoraproject.org/viewvc/devel/gfs-neohellenic-fonts/gfs-neohellenic-fonts.spec?revision=1.5&view=markup
|| [[#tDec 07 05:55:00|Dec 07 05:55]]
|- id="tDec 07 05:55:12"
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|| [[#tDec 07 05:55:12|Dec 07 05:55]]
|- id="tDec 07 05:55:20"
! style="background-color: #42427e" | nim-nim
| style="color: #42427e" | the next interesting bit is the license
|| [[#tDec 07 05:55:20|Dec 07 05:55]]
|- id="tDec 07 05:55:42"
! style="background-color: #42427e" | nim-nim
| style="color: #42427e" | we require in Fedora fonts that can be re-distributed
|| [[#tDec 07 05:55:42|Dec 07 05:55]]
|- id="tDec 07 05:55:49"
! style="background-color: #42427e" | nim-nim
| style="color: #42427e" | without commercial clauses or not
|| [[#tDec 07 05:55:49|Dec 07 05:55]]
|- id="tDec 07 05:55:57"
! style="background-color: #42427e" | nim-nim
| style="color: #42427e" | and fonts that can be modified
|| [[#tDec 07 05:55:57|Dec 07 05:55]]
|- id="tDec 07 05:56:06"
! style="background-color: #42427e" | nim-nim
| style="color: #42427e" | including existing glyphs
|| [[#tDec 07 05:56:06|Dec 07 05:56]]
|- id="tDec 07 05:56:36"
! style="background-color: #42427e" | nim-nim
| style="color: #42427e" | this is because otherwise the packages can not be used by Fedora derivatives like OLPC or RHEL
|| [[#tDec 07 05:56:36|Dec 07 05:56]]
|- id="tDec 07 05:56:55"
! style="background-color: #42427e" | nim-nim
| style="color: #42427e" | and if users report problems with a font, we want to be able to fix it
|| [[#tDec 07 05:56:55|Dec 07 05:56]]
|- id="tDec 07 05:57:11"
! style="background-color: #42427e" | nim-nim
| style="color: #42427e" | even if the font original author is not cooperating
|| [[#tDec 07 05:57:11|Dec 07 05:57]]
|- id="tDec 07 05:57:38"
! style="background-color: #42427e" | nim-nim
| style="color: #42427e" | this is why the vast majority of fonts is not packageable in Fedora
|| [[#tDec 07 05:57:38|Dec 07 05:57]]
|- id="tDec 07 05:57:58"
! style="background-color: #42427e" | nim-nim
| style="color: #42427e" | Sometimes a font author will publish a font on his web site
|| [[#tDec 07 05:57:58|Dec 07 05:57]]
|- id="tDec 07 05:58:07"
! style="background-color: #42427e" | nim-nim
| style="color: #42427e" | and just mark "free font"
|| [[#tDec 07 05:58:07|Dec 07 05:58]]
|- id="tDec 07 05:58:15"
! style="background-color: #42427e" | nim-nim
| style="color: #42427e" | this is not good enough for us
|| [[#tDec 07 05:58:15|Dec 07 05:58]]
|- id="tDec 07 05:58:39"
! style="background-color: #42427e" | nim-nim
| style="color: #42427e" | the author needs to be politely contacted to add an actual licensing declaration next to his fonts
|| [[#tDec 07 05:58:39|Dec 07 05:58]]
|- id="tDec 07 05:58:52"
! style="background-color: #42427e" | nim-nim
| style="color: #42427e" | in detached txt format
|| [[#tDec 07 05:58:52|Dec 07 05:58]]
|- id="tDec 07 05:59:24"
! style="background-color: #42427e" | nim-nim
| style="color: #42427e" | acceptable licenses and other legal considerations are here http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Legal_considerations_for_fonts
|| [[#tDec 07 05:59:24|Dec 07 05:59]]
|- id="tDec 07 06:00:05"
! style="background-color: #42427e" | nim-nim
| style="color: #42427e" | lastly, for the description and summary of the font
|| [[#tDec 07 06:00:05|Dec 07 06:00]]
|- id="tDec 07 06:00:37"
! style="background-color: #42427e" | nim-nim
| style="color: #42427e" | 1. the summary must be short, and help users to decide if they need a font or not
|| [[#tDec 07 06:00:37|Dec 07 06:00]]
|- id="tDec 07 06:00:47"
! style="background-color: #42427e" | nim-nim
| style="color: #42427e" | (typically font style and coverage)
|| [[#tDec 07 06:00:47|Dec 07 06:00]]
|- id="tDec 07 06:01:01"
! style="background-color: #42427e" | nim-nim
| style="color: #42427e" | 2. the description must expand
|| [[#tDec 07 06:01:01|Dec 07 06:01]]
|- id="tDec 07 06:01:24"
! style="background-color: #42427e" | nim-nim
| style="color: #42427e" | It's considered good form to detail the history of a font in the description
|| [[#tDec 07 06:01:24|Dec 07 06:01]]
|- id="tDec 07 06:01:42"
! style="background-color: #42427e" | nim-nim
| style="color: #42427e" | and tell who the original designer was
|| [[#tDec 07 06:01:42|Dec 07 06:01]]
|- id="tDec 07 06:02:28"
! style="background-color: #42427e" | nim-nim
| style="color: #42427e" | (that costs little and make designers happy with us; also researching font history is a good way to check it didn't copy material under a forbidden license)
|| [[#tDec 07 06:02:28|Dec 07 06:02]]
|- id="tDec 07 06:02:50"
! style="background-color: #42427e" | nim-nim
| style="color: #42427e" | that's all for the metadata part
|| [[#tDec 07 06:02:50|Dec 07 06:02]]
|- id="tDec 07 06:02:58"
! style="background-color: #42427e" | nim-nim
| style="color: #42427e" | for the build part
|| [[#tDec 07 06:02:58|Dec 07 06:02]]
|- id="tDec 07 06:03:14"
! style="background-color: #42427e" | nim-nim
| style="color: #42427e" | we like free fonts in sfd (fontforge) format
|| [[#tDec 07 06:03:14|Dec 07 06:03]]
|- id="tDec 07 06:03:49"
! style="background-color: #42427e" | nim-nim
| style="color: #42427e" | and we like to rebuild them in the package to make sure there is no missing magic in the sfd->ttf or otf transformation
|| [[#tDec 07 06:03:49|Dec 07 06:03]]
|- id="tDec 07 06:04:09"
! style="background-color: #42427e" | nim-nim
| style="color: #42427e" | (for the day we'll need to bugfix a font)
|| [[#tDec 07 06:04:09|Dec 07 06:04]]
|- id="tDec 07 06:04:28"
! style="background-color: #42427e" | nim-nim
| style="color: #42427e" | unfortunately there are no conventions on font building
|| [[#tDec 07 06:04:28|Dec 07 06:04]]
|- id="tDec 07 06:04:53"
! style="background-color: #42427e" | nim-nim
| style="color: #42427e" | let's just say the ideal case is a font project in sfd form that provides a makefile
|| [[#tDec 07 06:04:53|Dec 07 06:04]]
|- id="tDec 07 06:05:08"
! style="background-color: #818144" | dgrift
| style="color: #818144" | is there an example of this?
|| [[#tDec 07 06:05:08|Dec 07 06:05]]
|- id="tDec 07 06:05:13"
! style="background-color: #42427e" | nim-nim
| style="color: #42427e" | so just doing "make" creates the fonts from sfd sources
|| [[#tDec 07 06:05:13|Dec 07 06:05]]
|- id="tDec 07 06:05:35"
! style="background-color: #42427e" | nim-nim
| style="color: #42427e" | dgrift: the dejavu and liberation fonts used makefiles
|| [[#tDec 07 06:05:35|Dec 07 06:05]]
|- id="tDec 07 06:05:44"
! style="background-color: #818144" | dgrift
| style="color: #818144" | ill get the source rpm thanks
|| [[#tDec 07 06:05:44|Dec 07 06:05]]
|- id="tDec 07 06:05:48"
! style="background-color: #818144" | dgrift
| style="color: #818144" | and inspect it
|| [[#tDec 07 06:05:48|Dec 07 06:05]]
|- id="tDec 07 06:06:15"
! style="background-color: #42427e" | nim-nim
| style="color: #42427e" | dgrift: the incosolata, thibault, etc fonts do not have any makefile and have in-spec build instructions
|| [[#tDec 07 06:06:15|Dec 07 06:06]]
|- id="tDec 07 06:06:21"
! style="background-color: #818144" | dgrift
| style="color: #818144" | thanks
|| [[#tDec 07 06:06:21|Dec 07 06:06]]
|- id="tDec 07 06:06:31"
! style="background-color: #42427e" | nim-nim
| style="color: #42427e" | dgrift: writing a good makefile for upstream and getting them to include it is very much appreciated
|| [[#tDec 07 06:06:31|Dec 07 06:06]]
|- id="tDec 07 06:06:55"
! style="background-color: #42427e" | nim-nim
| style="color: #42427e" | our Debian friends have started working on a font project template
|| [[#tDec 07 06:06:55|Dec 07 06:06]]
|- id="tDec 07 06:07:01"
! style="background-color: #818144" | dgrift
| style="color: #818144" | why not use the one for liberation fonts?
|| [[#tDec 07 06:07:01|Dec 07 06:07]]
|- id="tDec 07 06:07:12"
! style="background-color: #818144" | dgrift
| style="color: #818144" | is it even possible to make a generic makefile?
|| [[#tDec 07 06:07:12|Dec 07 06:07]]
|- id="tDec 07 06:07:12"
! style="background-color: #42427e" | nim-nim
| style="color: #42427e" | helping them finish it and evangeise it would be appreciated too
|| [[#tDec 07 06:07:12|Dec 07 06:07]]
|- id="tDec 07 06:07:53"
! style="background-color: #42427e" | nim-nim
| style="color: #42427e" | dgrift: you certainly should not need to start from scratch for every project like today
|| [[#tDec 07 06:07:53|Dec 07 06:07]]
|- id="tDec 07 06:08:08"
! style="background-color: #818144" | dgrift
| style="color: #818144" | true, i will have a closer look, thanks
|| [[#tDec 07 06:08:08|Dec 07 06:08]]
|- id="tDec 07 06:08:19"
! style="background-color: #818144" | dgrift
| style="color: #818144" | thats true for all projects imo
|| [[#tDec 07 06:08:19|Dec 07 06:08]]
|- id="tDec 07 06:08:43"
! style="background-color: #42427e" | nim-nim
| style="color: #42427e" | http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Archive_template_for_fonts
|| [[#tDec 07 06:08:43|Dec 07 06:08]]
|- id="tDec 07 06:09:08"
! style="background-color: #42427e" | nim-nim
| style="color: #42427e" | anyway, after the build part we get to the install part
|| [[#tDec 07 06:09:08|Dec 07 06:09]]
|- id="tDec 07 06:09:20"
! style="background-color: #42427e" | nim-nim
| style="color: #42427e" | this is what is very distro-specific
|| [[#tDec 07 06:09:20|Dec 07 06:09]]
|- id="tDec 07 06:09:30"
! style="background-color: #42427e" | nim-nim
| style="color: #42427e" | and what will change in Fedora 11
|| [[#tDec 07 06:09:30|Dec 07 06:09]]
|- id="tDec 07 06:09:45"
! style="background-color: #42427e" | nim-nim
| style="color: #42427e" | previously we let much leeway to font packagers
|| [[#tDec 07 06:09:45|Dec 07 06:09]]
|- id="tDec 07 06:09:59"
! style="background-color: #42427e" | nim-nim
| style="color: #42427e" | and they happily used it to shot themselves in the feet
|| [[#tDec 07 06:09:59|Dec 07 06:09]]
|- id="tDec 07 06:10:19"
! style="background-color: #42427e" | nim-nim
| style="color: #42427e" | now we'll try to make everyone use the same simple rules
|| [[#tDec 07 06:10:19|Dec 07 06:10]]
|- id="tDec 07 06:10:34"
! style="background-color: #42427e" | nim-nim
| style="color: #42427e" | 1. install the (built) font files in a standard directory
|| [[#tDec 07 06:10:34|Dec 07 06:10]]
|- id="tDec 07 06:10:53"
! style="background-color: #42427e" | nim-nim
| style="color: #42427e" | 2. install the fontconfig files in a standard directory
|| [[#tDec 07 06:10:53|Dec 07 06:10]]
|- id="tDec 07 06:11:11"
! style="background-color: #42427e" | nim-nim
| style="color: #42427e" | 3. and link them to the contconfig config dir
|| [[#tDec 07 06:11:11|Dec 07 06:11]]
|- id="tDec 07 06:11:52"
! style="background-color: #818144" | dgrift
| style="color: #818144" | does this: http://cvs.fedoraproject.org/viewvc/ template take these rules into account already?
|| [[#tDec 07 06:11:52|Dec 07 06:11]]
|- id="tDec 07 06:12:14"
! style="background-color: #42427e" | nim-nim
| style="color: #42427e" | if you look at the simple template there is really little that need to be changed for different projects
|| [[#tDec 07 06:12:14|Dec 07 06:12]]
|- id="tDec 07 06:12:50"
! style="background-color: #42427e" | nim-nim
| style="color: #42427e" | dgrift: unfortunately with the F10 release the Fedora entity in charge of approving packaging changes has not convened in the past weeks
|| [[#tDec 07 06:12:50|Dec 07 06:12]]
|- id="tDec 07 06:13:16"
! style="background-color: #42427e" | nim-nim
| style="color: #42427e" | dgrift: it should state next tuesday if it's ok with the proposed changes
|| [[#tDec 07 06:13:16|Dec 07 06:13]]
|- id="tDec 07 06:13:17"
! style="background-color: #818144" | dgrift
| style="color: #818144" | alright thanks
|| [[#tDec 07 06:13:17|Dec 07 06:13]]
|- id="tDec 07 06:13:27"
! style="background-color: #42427e" | nim-nim
| style="color: #42427e" | dgrift: IMHO it will at most propose a few tweaks
|| [[#tDec 07 06:13:27|Dec 07 06:13]]
|- id="tDec 07 06:13:52"
| colspan="2" | <--BlinkyToon has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
|| [[#tDec 07 06:13:52|Dec 07 06:13]]
|- id="tDec 07 06:14:13"
! style="background-color: #42427e" | nim-nim
| style="color: #42427e" | anyway, looking at the template, you need to change at most the location of the built fonts
|| [[#tDec 07 06:14:13|Dec 07 06:14]]
|- id="tDec 07 06:14:28"
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|| [[#tDec 07 06:14:28|Dec 07 06:14]]
|- id="tDec 07 06:14:32"
! style="background-color: #42427e" | nim-nim
| style="color: #42427e" | *.ttf -> *.otf or build/*.ttf
|| [[#tDec 07 06:14:32|Dec 07 06:14]]
|- id="tDec 07 06:14:45"
! style="background-color: #42427e" | nim-nim
| style="color: #42427e" | and the rest should just work for most projects
|| [[#tDec 07 06:14:45|Dec 07 06:14]]
|- id="tDec 07 06:15:13"
! style="background-color: #42427e" | nim-nim
| style="color: #42427e" | FYI when I review new font packages I do a visual diff in meld with the Fedora templates
|| [[#tDec 07 06:15:13|Dec 07 06:15]]
|- id="tDec 07 06:15:29"
! style="background-color: #42427e" | nim-nim
| style="color: #42427e" | and I don't like changes without justification
|| [[#tDec 07 06:15:29|Dec 07 06:15]]
|- id="tDec 07 06:15:49"
! style="background-color: #407a40" | nirik
| style="color: #407a40" | nim-nim: since we are almost out of time... where can people find more info and get involved? the fedora-fonts list?
|| [[#tDec 07 06:15:49|Dec 07 06:15]]
|- id="tDec 07 06:16:05"
! style="background-color: #42427e" | nim-nim
| style="color: #42427e" | nirik: I still have 15min, no?
|| [[#tDec 07 06:16:05|Dec 07 06:16]]
|- id="tDec 07 06:16:43"
! style="background-color: #407a40" | nirik
| style="color: #407a40" | nim-nim: yeah, although we had time as a break between sessions... so folks could go get a cup of coffee, etc... ;)
|| [[#tDec 07 06:16:43|Dec 07 06:16]]
|- id="tDec 07 06:17:03"
! style="background-color: #42427e" | nim-nim
| style="color: #42427e" | nirik: it's a no-coffee session :p
|| [[#tDec 07 06:17:03|Dec 07 06:17]]
|- id="tDec 07 06:17:26"
! style="background-color: #407a40" | nirik
| style="color: #407a40" | No worries. :)  
|| [[#tDec 07 06:17:26|Dec 07 06:17]]
|- id="tDec 07 06:17:32"
! style="background-color: #42427e" | nim-nim
| style="color: #42427e" | anyway, as nirik stated the way to get more info is always to ask on the Fedora fonts list
|| [[#tDec 07 06:17:32|Dec 07 06:17]]
|- id="tDec 07 06:17:48"
! style="background-color: #42427e" | nim-nim
| style="color: #42427e" | it's low traffic
|| [[#tDec 07 06:17:48|Dec 07 06:17]]
|- id="tDec 07 06:18:04"
! style="background-color: #407a40" | nirik
| style="color: #407a40" | that list is available at: http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-fonts-list
|| [[#tDec 07 06:18:04|Dec 07 06:18]]
|- id="tDec 07 06:18:16"
! style="background-color: #42427e" | nim-nim
| style="color: #42427e" | but not because we bang on posters
|| [[#tDec 07 06:18:16|Dec 07 06:18]]
|- id="tDec 07 06:18:35"
! style="background-color: #42427e" | nim-nim
| style="color: #42427e" | more because we have lots of documentation in the wiki
|| [[#tDec 07 06:18:35|Dec 07 06:18]]
|- id="tDec 07 06:18:40"
! style="background-color: #42427e" | nim-nim
| style="color: #42427e" | but do ask!
|| [[#tDec 07 06:18:40|Dec 07 06:18]]
|- id="tDec 07 06:18:59"
! style="background-color: #42427e" | nim-nim
| style="color: #42427e" | another less reliable channel is the ##fonts irc channel
|| [[#tDec 07 06:18:59|Dec 07 06:18]]
|- id="tDec 07 06:19:02"
! style="background-color: #8c4a4a" | zcat
| style="color: #8c4a4a" | nim-nim, would it be possible to get an explanation of how fontconfig works, with all the conf.avail conf's, etc, or is that too unrelated to the packaging topic? :)
|| [[#tDec 07 06:19:02|Dec 07 06:19]]
|- id="tDec 07 06:19:03"
! style="background-color: #42427e" | nim-nim
| style="color: #42427e" | (with two #)
|| [[#tDec 07 06:19:03|Dec 07 06:19]]
|- id="tDec 07 06:19:24"
! style="background-color: #42427e" | nim-nim
| style="color: #42427e" | zcat: ok, I'll try if niriks lets me
|| [[#tDec 07 06:19:24|Dec 07 06:19]]
|- id="tDec 07 06:19:47"
! style="background-color: #42427e" | nim-nim
| style="color: #42427e" | the last bit of the new template is the %_font_pkg macro
|| [[#tDec 07 06:19:47|Dec 07 06:19]]
|- id="tDec 07 06:20:03"
! style="background-color: #42427e" | nim-nim
| style="color: #42427e" | it does gorry stuff like calling fc-cache at the right time
|| [[#tDec 07 06:20:03|Dec 07 06:20]]
|- id="tDec 07 06:20:31"
! style="background-color: #42427e" | nim-nim
| style="color: #42427e" | and takes a fontconfig file as (optional) argument
|| [[#tDec 07 06:20:31|Dec 07 06:20]]
|- id="tDec 07 06:20:53"
! style="background-color: #42427e" | nim-nim
| style="color: #42427e" | fontconfig is the current *nix font selection system
|| [[#tDec 07 06:20:53|Dec 07 06:20]]
|- id="tDec 07 06:21:29"
! style="background-color: #42427e" | nim-nim
| style="color: #42427e" | it's a set of xml rules, so applications can ask fontconfig "the user wants font A, what font file should I use"?
|| [[#tDec 07 06:21:29|Dec 07 06:21]]
|- id="tDec 07 06:21:42"
! style="background-color: #42427e" | nim-nim
| style="color: #42427e" | font A can be a font not installed on the system
|| [[#tDec 07 06:21:42|Dec 07 06:21]]
|- id="tDec 07 06:21:52"
! style="background-color: #42427e" | nim-nim
| style="color: #42427e" | or a fake font such as "sans"
|| [[#tDec 07 06:21:52|Dec 07 06:21]]
|- id="tDec 07 06:22:28"
! style="background-color: #42427e" | nim-nim
| style="color: #42427e" | to help fontconfig make the right decisions with your fonts we strongly suggest adding a fontconfig file to your package
|| [[#tDec 07 06:22:28|Dec 07 06:22]]
|- id="tDec 07 06:22:46"
! style="background-color: #42427e" | nim-nim
| style="color: #42427e" | and pushing it upstream so it gets included in the next font release
|| [[#tDec 07 06:22:46|Dec 07 06:22]]
|- id="tDec 07 06:22:56"
! style="background-color: #42427e" | nim-nim
| style="color: #42427e" | fontconfig syntaw can be obscure
|| [[#tDec 07 06:22:56|Dec 07 06:22]]
|- id="tDec 07 06:23:15"
! style="background-color: #42427e" | nim-nim
| style="color: #42427e" | so we've added a few templates to the fontpackages archive
|| [[#tDec 07 06:23:15|Dec 07 06:23]]
|- id="tDec 07 06:23:15"
! style="background-color: #8c4a4a" | zcat
| style="color: #8c4a4a" | nim-nim, (thanks. that's about the extent of what i know about fontconfig. you can ask it, for example "fc-match Sans" and it'll spit that it's using DejaVu)
|| [[#tDec 07 06:23:15|Dec 07 06:23]]
|- id="tDec 07 06:23:31"
! style="background-color: #42427e" | nim-nim
| style="color: #42427e" | http://nim.fedorapeople.org/fontpackages/fontpackages-1.10.tar.bz2
|| [[#tDec 07 06:23:31|Dec 07 06:23]]
|- id="tDec 07 06:23:52"
! style="background-color: #42427e" | nim-nim
| style="color: #42427e" | they're in the fontconfig-templates directory
|| [[#tDec 07 06:23:52|Dec 07 06:23]]
|- id="tDec 07 06:24:26"
! style="background-color: #42427e" | nim-nim
| style="color: #42427e" | they're all organised as
|| [[#tDec 07 06:24:26|Dec 07 06:24]]
|- id="tDec 07 06:24:26"
! style="background-color: #42427e" | nim-nim
| style="color: #42427e" | 1. an xml .conf template
|| [[#tDec 07 06:24:26|Dec 07 06:24]]
|- id="tDec 07 06:24:35"
! style="background-color: #42427e" | nim-nim
| style="color: #42427e" | 2. a .txt explanation
|| [[#tDec 07 06:24:35|Dec 07 06:24]]
|- id="tDec 07 06:24:55"
! style="background-color: #42427e" | nim-nim
| style="color: #42427e" | if you look at the basic-font-template template
|| [[#tDec 07 06:24:55|Dec 07 06:24]]
|- id="tDec 07 06:24:59"
| colspan="2" | -->mizmo (n=duffy@c-66-31-44-241.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) has joined #fedora-classroom
|| [[#tDec 07 06:24:59|Dec 07 06:24]]
|- id="tDec 07 06:25:20"
! style="background-color: #42427e" | nim-nim
| style="color: #42427e" | you see we typically declare two rules for a font
|| [[#tDec 07 06:25:20|Dec 07 06:25]]
|- id="tDec 07 06:26:05"
! style="background-color: #42427e" | nim-nim
| style="color: #42427e" | the first one makes your font available in one of the generic lists (sans, serif, etc)
|| [[#tDec 07 06:26:05|Dec 07 06:26]]
|- id="tDec 07 06:26:30"
| colspan="2" | <--nuonguy has quit ("This computer has gone to sleep")
|| [[#tDec 07 06:26:30|Dec 07 06:26]]
|- id="tDec 07 06:26:31"
! style="background-color: #42427e" | nim-nim
| style="color: #42427e" | the second one tells fontconfig it should complete the font with glyphs taken from one of those lists
|| [[#tDec 07 06:26:31|Dec 07 06:26]]
|- id="tDec 07 06:26:44"
! style="background-color: #42427e" | nim-nim
| style="color: #42427e" | there are several more complex templates in the archive
|| [[#tDec 07 06:26:44|Dec 07 06:26]]
|- id="tDec 07 06:26:50"
! style="background-color: #42427e" | nim-nim
| style="color: #42427e" | take a look at them
|| [[#tDec 07 06:26:50|Dec 07 06:26]]
|- id="tDec 07 06:27:04"
! style="background-color: #42427e" | nim-nim
| style="color: #42427e" | and ask questions in the list as needed
|| [[#tDec 07 06:27:04|Dec 07 06:27]]
|- id="tDec 07 06:27:29"
! style="background-color: #42427e" | nim-nim
| style="color: #42427e" | the only remaining important thing to know about fontconfig
|| [[#tDec 07 06:27:29|Dec 07 06:27]]
|- id="tDec 07 06:27:43"
| colspan="2" | *nirik notes 3min to next class... shall we stop here and provide a little break?
|| [[#tDec 07 06:27:43|Dec 07 06:27]]
|- id="tDec 07 06:27:49"
! style="background-color: #42427e" | nim-nim
| style="color: #42427e" | is it merges configuration rules by configuration file name
|| [[#tDec 07 06:27:49|Dec 07 06:27]]
|- id="tDec 07 06:28:31"
! style="background-color: #42427e" | nim-nim
| style="color: #42427e" | thus a rule in file 01-* and a rule in file 02-* will be processed like rule in file 1 followed by rule in file 2
|| [[#tDec 07 06:28:31|Dec 07 06:28]]
|- id="tDec 07 06:28:33"
! style="background-color: #818144" | dgrift
| style="color: #818144" | nim-nim in your opinion which font package is the best current example? liberation fonts?
|| [[#tDec 07 06:28:33|Dec 07 06:28]]
|- id="tDec 07 06:28:56"
! style="background-color: #42427e" | nim-nim
| style="color: #42427e" | dgrift: dejavu is pretty good for a complex package
|| [[#tDec 07 06:28:56|Dec 07 06:28]]
|- id="tDec 07 06:29:01"
! style="background-color: #818144" | dgrift
| style="color: #818144" | thanks
|| [[#tDec 07 06:29:01|Dec 07 06:29]]
|- id="tDec 07 06:29:08"
! style="background-color: #42427e" | nim-nim
| style="color: #42427e" | the gfs fonts are good for simple packages
|| [[#tDec 07 06:29:08|Dec 07 06:29]]
|- id="tDec 07 06:29:29"
! style="background-color: #42427e" | nim-nim
| style="color: #42427e" | in  http://nim.fedorapeople.org/fontpackages/ you have examples of packages converted to the new templates
|| [[#tDec 07 06:29:29|Dec 07 06:29]]
|- id="tDec 07 06:29:46"
! style="background-color: #42427e" | nim-nim
| style="color: #42427e" | and I think I'll stop here before nirik cuts us
|| [[#tDec 07 06:29:46|Dec 07 06:29]]
|- id="tDec 07 06:29:51"
| colspan="2" | ---nirik has changed the topic to: Fedora IRC Classroom - Short Break between classes - See https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/IRC/Classroom for schedule of classes today.
|| [[#tDec 07 06:29:51|Dec 07 06:29]]
|- id="tDec 07 06:29:55"
! style="background-color: #4b904b" | SSlater
| style="color: #4b904b" | Thanks nim-nim.
|| [[#tDec 07 06:29:55|Dec 07 06:29]]
|- id="tDec 07 06:29:56"
! style="background-color: #42427e" | nim-nim
| style="color: #42427e" | do anyone has a remaining questin?
|| [[#tDec 07 06:29:56|Dec 07 06:29]]
|- id="tDec 07 06:29:59"
! style="background-color: #818144" | dgrift
| style="color: #818144" | is there a font package wish list?
|| [[#tDec 07 06:29:59|Dec 07 06:29]]
|- id="tDec 07 06:30:02"
! style="background-color: #407a40" | nirik
| style="color: #407a40" | thanks nim-nim !
|| [[#tDec 07 06:30:02|Dec 07 06:30]]
|- id="tDec 07 06:30:30"
! style="background-color: #42427e" | nim-nim
| style="color: #42427e" | dgrift: there is here http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Category:Font_wishlist
|| [[#tDec 07 06:30:30|Dec 07 06:30]]
|- id="tDec 07 06:30:34"
! style="background-color: #818144" | dgrift
| style="color: #818144" | thanks
|| [[#tDec 07 06:30:34|Dec 07 06:30]]
|- id="tDec 07 06:30:39"
! style="background-color: #407a40" | nirik
| style="color: #407a40" | we will take a short break before the next class... How to wow your friends with awesome Gimp tricks with Máirín Duffy
|| [[#tDec 07 06:30:39|Dec 07 06:30]]
|- id="tDec 07 06:30:57"
! style="background-color: #4d4d93" | mizmo
| style="color: #4d4d93" | back in 15 minutes?
|| [[#tDec 07 06:30:57|Dec 07 06:30]]
|- id="tDec 07 06:31:10"
! style="background-color: #97974f" | ivazquez
| style="color: #97974f" | 15 sounds good.
|| [[#tDec 07 06:31:10|Dec 07 06:31]]
|- id="tDec 07 06:31:12"
! style="background-color: #4d4d93" | mizmo
| style="color: #4d4d93" | k
|| [[#tDec 07 06:31:12|Dec 07 06:31]]
|- id="tDec 07 06:31:26"
! style="background-color: #407a40" | nirik
| style="color: #407a40" | sounds fine. 15min it is.
|| [[#tDec 07 06:31:26|Dec 07 06:31]]
|- id="tDec 07 06:32:26"
! style="background-color: #42427e" | nim-nim
| style="color: #42427e" | you have 15min to sneak in more font questions :p
|| [[#tDec 07 06:32:26|Dec 07 06:32]]
|- id="tDec 07 06:34:20"
! style="background-color: #818144" | dgrift
| style="color: #818144" | any more important urls you can share on the record nim-nim?
|| [[#tDec 07 06:34:20|Dec 07 06:34]]
|- id="tDec 07 06:35:29"
! style="background-color: #42427e" | nim-nim
| style="color: #42427e" | dgrift: everything should be reachable from the SIG start page
|| [[#tDec 07 06:35:29|Dec 07 06:35]]
|- id="tDec 07 06:35:39"
! style="background-color: #818144" | dgrift
| style="color: #818144" | ok thanks
|| [[#tDec 07 06:35:39|Dec 07 06:35]]
|- id="tDec 07 06:35:45"
! style="background-color: #42427e" | nim-nim
| style="color: #42427e" | just type "Fonts SIG" in google
|| [[#tDec 07 06:35:45|Dec 07 06:35]]
|- id="tDec 07 06:36:02"
! style="background-color: #42427e" | nim-nim
| style="color: #42427e" | you just need to drill a bit
|| [[#tDec 07 06:36:02|Dec 07 06:36]]
|- id="tDec 07 06:36:12"
! style="background-color: #818144" | dgrift
| style="color: #818144" | yes
|| [[#tDec 07 06:36:12|Dec 07 06:36]]
|- id="tDec 07 06:36:23"
! style="background-color: #42427e" | nim-nim
| style="color: #42427e" | we've written quite a lot of documentation in the past years
|| [[#tDec 07 06:36:23|Dec 07 06:36]]
|- id="tDec 07 06:36:29"
! style="background-color: #42427e" | nim-nim
| style="color: #42427e" | when in doubt, ask the list
|| [[#tDec 07 06:36:29|Dec 07 06:36]]
|- id="tDec 07 06:38:22"
! style="background-color: #42427e" | nim-nim
| style="color: #42427e" | dgrift: the most important page for a new packager is probably
|| [[#tDec 07 06:38:22|Dec 07 06:38]]
|- id="tDec 07 06:38:22"
! style="background-color: #42427e" | nim-nim
| style="color: #42427e" | http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Font_package_lifecycle
|| [[#tDec 07 06:38:22|Dec 07 06:38]]
|- id="tDec 07 06:39:11"
! style="background-color: #818144" | dgrift
| style="color: #818144" | bookmarking , thanks
|| [[#tDec 07 06:39:11|Dec 07 06:39]]
|}
 
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