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Fedora Project Board Meeting :: Tuesday 2008-04-01
Roll Call
Attendees: Everyone on #fedora-board-meeting
Discussion Summary
- Board answers community questions on:
- Fedora University Tour
- Fedora 9 features
- Marketing and PR
- Fedora in higher education
- Focus areas for next 6-12 months
- The Board voted to open #fedora channel on IRC to no longer require registration of nicks. This is seen as a major hurdle for new people who don't know anything about IRC. ACTION ITEM: Dennis Gilmore to survey needs on IRC in terms of fostering better care for new users (i.e. social needs) and assessing technical needs.
IRC Transcript
- Raw discussion is here
#!html <table class="irclog"> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">stickster</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #407a40">Welcome all to the IRC public Board meeting for May 2008.</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">stickster</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #407a40">The first meeting of each month is set aside for a public meeting so the community can ask Board members questions and get (mostly) realtime answers</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">stickster</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #407a40">Soon, we hope to do this in a slightly higher-bandwidth fashion via audio and Asterisk.</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">stickster</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #407a40">As I'm sure everyone will appreciate, our Infrastructure and Websites teams are busy working on making the Fedora 9 release superb.</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">stickster</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #407a40">To ask questions, join the #fedora-board-public channel, and spevack will take questions and funnel them here.</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">stickster</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #407a40">This channel is open to the public but only Board members have VOICE.</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">spevack</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #42427e">ready for questions?</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">stickster</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #407a40">The #fedora-board-public channel allows everyone to talk, pose questions, discuss, heckle, and so forth.</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">stickster</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #407a40">Bring it on!</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">stickster</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #407a40">:-)</td></tr> <tr><td class="servermsg" colspan="3">--- mdomsch (n=Matt_Dom@cpe-70-124-62-55.austin.res.rr.com) changed mode: +o spevack </td></tr> <tr><td class="servermsg" colspan="3">--- mdomsch (n=Matt_Dom@cpe-70-124-62-55.austin.res.rr.com) changed mode: +o stickster </td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">spevack</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #42427e">from inode0: how was the university tour viewed in retrospect? didn't see much news about it lately.</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">spevack</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #42427e">inode0: while the Board types, I'll direct you here for one piece of news from the Red Hat Press Blog -- <a href="http://www.press.redhat.com/2008/04/25/fedora-returns-from-the-university-tour/">http://www.press.redhat.com/2008/04/25/fedora-returns-from-the-university-tour/</a></td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">spevack</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #42427e">and if the Board wants me to comment more on the UT, I will be happy to</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">stickster</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #407a40">The Fedora University Tour was a very cool experiment our Community Architecture Team put together</td></tr> <tr><td class="servermsg" colspan="3">--- caillon (n=caillon@75.147.7.113) changed topic: Fedora Project Board public IRC Meeting. Q&A session: Please direct questions to spevack in the #fedora-board-public channel.</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #818144">mdomsch</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #818144">spevack, be our guest</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">stickster</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #407a40">The purpose was to create more awareness of open source in computer science programs in schools around the nation</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">spevack</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #42427e">sure...</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">spevack</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #42427e">stickster: you go ahead for now</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">stickster</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #407a40">:-)</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">stickster</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #407a40">as well as to seed interest in Fedora specifically as an open source community, and to cultivate interest in students who form some of the upcoming FOSS superstar pool</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">notting</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #854685">is there a way to pull some sort of stats as to new contributors gained during/as a result of the tour?</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">spevack</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #42427e">The university tour was led by Jack Aboutboul. We visited about 15 different schools throughout the US, with a few goals in mind. As Paul says, one was to find out what *students* are doing with Fedora, and second was to see what faculty members think about the readyness of open source curriculums in colleges</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">stickster</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #407a40">Jack Aboutboul went on a multi-city, multi-school journey and you can see some of his other posts at <a href="http://fedorauniversity.wordpress.com/">http://fedorauniversity.wordpress.com/</a></td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">spevack</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #42427e">There are several leads that were particularly interesting that came out of this tour, and that we need to follow up on.</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">spevack</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #42427e">In the next month or two, we'll be doing that.</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">stickster</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #407a40">notting: Jack is working on doing just that, as mentioned in the Community Architecture meeting notes: <a href="http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/CommunityArchitecture/Meetings/2008-04-28">http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/CommunityArchitecture/Meetings/2008-04-28</a></td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">spevack</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #42427e">In particular, there was a lot of interest at Carnegie Mellon, Syracuse, and Oregon State.</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">spevack</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #42427e">stickster: there have been 2 follow up questions</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">spevack</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #42427e">the first -- was it viewed as a success, and are future tours planned?</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">spevack</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #42427e">I'm happy to take that question -- I think that we view it as a successful lead-generation device at this point.</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">spevack</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #42427e">the amount of energy that we have discovered, compared to the few thousand dollars that we spent on it, was a good investment.</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">stickster</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #407a40">Yes, I would like to see it move outward to other geographic areas</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">spevack</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #42427e">The next few months, which is the follow up phase, will determine true success or failure</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">spevack</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #42427e">but if/when we do greenlight a second, we will probably look to do it outside of the US.</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">spevack</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #42427e">the next question, related, is from emilyr</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #488888">dgilmore</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #488888">spevack: i have a contact at Bradley i need to put you or gregdek in contact with</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">stickster</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #407a40">oops, hang on</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">spevack</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #42427e">Does openly available curricula for using linux and or fedora in university classes exist?</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">spevack</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #42427e"></td></tr> <tr><td class="action" colspan="3">* spevack waits now for the typers to catch up</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">stickster</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #407a40">This was somewhat of a trial for this idea, and the community should expect to see more media (blog entries, external press, etc.) generated next time.</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">stickster</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #407a40">Hi emilyr</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">stickster</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #407a40">We have a couple of these kind of curricula in testing/development</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">stickster</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #407a40">NCSU has one: <a href="http://courses.ncsu.edu/csc591w/">http://courses.ncsu.edu/csc591w/</a></td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">stickster</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #407a40">The other we are working on with Seneca College in Toronto, Canada</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #488888">dgilmore</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #488888">spevack: id like for us to make sure that we have course work that schools can pick up and run with.</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #488888">dgilmore</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #488888">stickster: ^^^^</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">spevack</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #42427e">dgilmore: i agree. the coursework coming out of NCSU is being developed by a RH engineer, and gregdek is taking a role in it also.</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">stickster</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #407a40">yes, all this should be produced under a OSS compatible license</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #488888">dgilmore</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #488888">for instance i was asked at Bradley if id be willing to help them write courses around open source. for proposal. which was then followed by would you be willing to teach the courses</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">stickster</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #407a40">If I'm not mistaken, that's one of the ground rules</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">stickster</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #407a40">There are probably opportunities to have this included in the MIT OpenCourseware offerings, too.</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #488888">dgilmore</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #488888">is there conferences for university educators? should we have a presence at them?</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">spevack</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #42427e">dgilmore: Greg and Michael Tiemann spoke at CSEET in Charleston a few weeks ago.</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">spevack</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #42427e">it's a conference focusing on education</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">spevack</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #42427e">software engineering education, specifically</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #488888">dgilmore</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #488888">:)</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">spevack</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #42427e">sponsored by the IEEE</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">spevack</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #42427e">so the takeaway that I'm getting here is that we need to make some more noise publicly about what we are doing in the education realm.</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">stickster</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #407a40">dgilmore: I'll be going to the FSOSS conference in Toronto in October, as well.</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #488888">dgilmore</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #488888">spevack: yep. and we need to do more.</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">stickster</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #407a40">.<a href="http://fsoss.senecac.on.ca/2007/">http://fsoss.senecac.on.ca/2007/</a> <-- old 2007 page, 2008 not yet up</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">stickster</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #407a40">I'd encourage the other Board members to talk about any contact they have with higher education</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">stickster</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #407a40">And let's not forget this sort of work can start early.</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">spoleeba</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #8c4a4a">spevack, make noise...and we need to get a good feel for what prevents people from doing an open curriculum</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">spoleeba</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #8c4a4a">spevack, there could be common institutional roadblocks</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">stickster</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #407a40">spoleeba: I wonder what subset of those problems have already been faced (and/or conquered) by MIT</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #818144">mdomsch</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #818144">I know a prof at St. Louis U that is looking at barriers to open source usage among the staff</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">stickster</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #407a40">I went to a county-level information technology expo and used that opportunity to talk to instructors and administrators one-on-one about FOSS</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">spoleeba</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #8c4a4a">stickster, I wouldnt stand up MIT as.. typical</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">stickster</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #407a40">spoleeba: Certainly if there are worries about course licensing, they won't be that different from MIT to the next university, though.</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">stickster</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #407a40">There are certainly a large set of issues that are common to all higher education.</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">spoleeba</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #8c4a4a">stickster, i dont think educators...think about licensing</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">stickster</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #407a40">spoleeba: Err... isn't that what I said?</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #488888">dgilmore</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #488888">spevack: we should not ignore high school either. however we might be best started by getting university classes for computer educators. so that people feel more confident to teach FOSS in high school's</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">spoleeba</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #8c4a4a">dgilmore, high schools will have even more aggressive institutional roadblocks i think</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">spevack</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #42427e">dgilmore: one our our summer interns for Fedora will be a high school student from NC School of Science and Math, FWIW. NEW QUESTION from emilyr: what are some of the major issues that Board candidates are focusing on this election? And my own addition: or what topics do current Board members think are important for the next 6-12 months of Fedora?</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">stickster</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #407a40">dgilmore: The one problem we'll run into in high schools -- and this isn't saying we *shouldn't* do so, just a barrier we should be aware of -- is the lack of resources that come with being a locally tax-funded institution.</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">spevack</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #42427e">whenever the board is ready for a new topic, there it is :)</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">spoleeba</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #8c4a4a">stickster, inertia...and the ability to tie in to existing technology infrastructure that may exist...smart boards and crap</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #488888">dgilmore</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #488888">spoleeba: yes. but working in, by having teachers comming out of college. with knowledge and confidence in teaching FOSS should help</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">stickster</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #407a40">OK, let's move on</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">spevack</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #42427e">NEW QUESTION from emilyr: what are some of the major issues that Board candidates are focusing on this election? And my own addition: or what topics do current Board members think are important for the next 6-12 months of Fedora?</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">spevack</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #42427e"></td></tr> <tr><td class="action" colspan="3">* spevack quiets down now</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #4b904b">skvidal</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #4b904b">fixing codeina</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">spoleeba</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #8c4a4a"></td></tr> <tr><td class="action" colspan="3">* spoleeba hides</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #818144">mdomsch</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #818144">one theme I see in the new candidates is finding new ways to get new (types of) people into Feodra</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">stickster</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #407a40">Let's keep in mind that not all Board candidates (1) have been announced, or (2) are present</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #4b904b">skvidal</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #4b904b">helping drop the barriers to contributing to fedora - that's mostly solved but needs better publicity, I think</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">spoleeba</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #8c4a4a">skvidal, we have the click through cla in place?</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">stickster</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #407a40">We should really allow everyone to weigh in by populating the Board Nominations page: <a href="http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Board/Elections/Nominations">http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Board/Elections/Nominations</a></td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #4b904b">skvidal</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #4b904b">and we can, later.</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">stickster</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #407a40">skvidal: I think there's plenty more to do with respect to barriers.</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #488888">dgilmore</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #488888"></td></tr> <tr><td class="action" colspan="3">* dgilmore wants to focus on enabling people to scratch their itches </td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">stickster</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #407a40">I see a lot of those problems are being solved by the Infra and Websites teams, steady progress every day.</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">stickster</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #407a40">The new wiki will help.</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">stickster</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #407a40">So will other FAS2-compatible sites.</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #488888">dgilmore</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #488888"></td></tr> <tr><td class="action" colspan="3">* dgilmore will still work on that even if not re-elected</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #4b904b">skvidal</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #4b904b">stickster: yes - but not entirely solved, and they need to be the focii for the next release cycle</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">spoleeba</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #8c4a4a">what's important.... positioning SIGS as self-reliant entities as much as possible. So SIGs can scope their own work, and actively recruit from outside our community to meet the needs of that work</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">stickster</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #407a40">skvidal: +1 that</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #488888">dgilmore</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #488888">skvidal: and single signon everywhere :)</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #818144">mdomsch</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #818144">re publicity: the ambassadors have been doing a great job representing Fedora t events worldwide</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">stickster</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #407a40">I expect that by Fedora 10 release, most if not all our web properties should be tied into FAS2, for instance, so when someone joins with our new, easy click-through process, they immediately get wiki access, website access, maybe blog space, pushbutton inclusion in the planet, who knows.</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #4b904b">skvidal</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #4b904b">dgilmore: s/single/seldom/</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #4b904b">skvidal</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #4b904b">stickster: blog space sounds like doom, imo - but sure</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">stickster</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #407a40">spoleeba: The SIGs are going to be especially important when it comes to getting ISVs and others involved in Fedora & EPEL</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">stickster</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #407a40">skvidal: pessimist :-P </td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">stickster</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #407a40">:-D</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">spoleeba</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #8c4a4a">its pretty difficult to recruit new people at the general project level. So as we lower the barriers to entry we need to make it easier for the groups within the larger project to go out and actively pull people in</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #4b904b">skvidal</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #4b904b">stickster: realist :)</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">stickster</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #407a40">ISV, by the way == "independent software vendor" for anyone here who's not in the biz.</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">stickster</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #407a40">Heck, I barely knew until I joined Red Hat.</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #4d4d93">caillon</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #4d4d93">emilyr, the things I'd like to see are: getting more contributors. how can we bolster the triage, testing communities for example? we could also use more people on the website, too. also, I'd like to see more focus on getting upstreams to package in fedora, and to make it easier for people to jump in and contribute. oh, and codec buddy and desktop experience. :)</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #4b904b">skvidal</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #4b904b">caillon: I believe calling it codec buddy will get you cursed thrice by thomasvs</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">spoleeba</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #8c4a4a">caillon, we have to have a recruitment and retention framework</td></tr> <tr><td class="servermsg" colspan="3">--- ChanServ (ChanServ@services.) changed mode: +v steved </td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">spoleeba</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #8c4a4a">caillon, within which SIGs can participate</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #4d4d93">caillon</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #4d4d93">skvidal, maybe he can forgive me since i voted to keep it in ;)</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #4b904b">skvidal</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #4b904b">caillon: :)</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #97974f">steved</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #97974f">sorry I'm late...</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">stickster</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #407a40">Steve Dickson, everyone! Give him a big hand....</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">stickster</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #407a40">*applause*</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">notting</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #854685">emilyr - i think we need to figure out (as caillon mentioned) how to get people into QA, triage, etc. we're historically very understaffed on those tasks, and getting more focus there can only help</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #4d4d93">caillon</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #4d4d93">spoleeba, yeah, absolutely</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #488888">dgilmore</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #488888"></td></tr> <tr><td class="action" colspan="3">* dgilmore *ROARS*</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #818144">mdomsch</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #818144">I'm happy to see more cvsextras sponsors self-nominating</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #818144">mdomsch</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #818144">it's encouraging to see that group want to expand further which will help new contributors too</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #4d4d93">caillon</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #4d4d93">i think we've done a great job with getting engineering contributions. (though more is always welcome). but not so much with getting a lot of other contributors. and i don't mean to diminish the work that people are doing on testing, website, docs, etc. but they could use some help.</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #488888">dgilmore</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #488888"></td></tr> <tr><td class="action" colspan="3">* dgilmore thinks we need to get some vocal supporters in the media, etc. People that can help get and keep fedora on users minds</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">spoleeba</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #8c4a4a">caillon, im still interested in find SIGs interested in experimenting with a focused recruitment week, that we can make noise about and match walkins with an appropriate SIG</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #488888">dgilmore</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #488888">caillon: indeed</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #818144">mdomsch</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #818144">sjvn :-)</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #4d4d93">caillon</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #4d4d93">spoleeba, sign me up. I'm there.</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">spevack</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #42427e">stickster: I'll invent my own follow up question here, but perhaps this would be a good time to tell folks about the press work that is going on around Fedora 9, the interviews, press kits, etc.</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #488888">dgilmore</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #488888">spevack, stickster: please tell</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">spevack</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #42427e"></td></tr> <tr><td class="action" colspan="3">* spevack wants to moderate a Fedora Board Election debate between candidates :)</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">stickster</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #407a40">"I know Bill Nottingham. Bill Nottingham is a friend of mine... and Jef Spaleta, you're no Bill Nottingham."</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">spoleeba</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #8c4a4a">spevack, i will subvert such a 'debate' into a consensus building discussion</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">stickster</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #407a40">So about press work.</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">stickster</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #407a40">We are using the Fedora 9 launch as a means to improve the openness and vigor of our Fedora Marketing teamwork</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">stickster</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #407a40">We have participation from people both inside Red Hat and from the greater community of volunteers</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">stickster</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #407a40">Starting at FUDCon back in January</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #488888">dgilmore</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #488888">:)</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">stickster</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #407a40">we put together thematic points that would help us unify messages about Fedora.</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">stickster</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #407a40">We've used those themes to build talking points for use by Ambassadors and other community members when they talk about Fedora</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">stickster</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #407a40">We've leveraged the excellent progress John Poelstra (poelcat) made on the feature process</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">stickster</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #407a40">Turning that into an easy way to rattle off the many great features in Fedora 9</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">stickster</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #407a40">We've integrated points about some of the work our community has done this cycle</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">stickster</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #407a40">including Artwork</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">stickster</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #407a40">KDE 4</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">stickster</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #407a40">and one of my favorite stories...</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">stickster</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #407a40">ROBOT SOCCER PLAYERS!</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">spoleeba</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #8c4a4a">robotic telescopes are better</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">stickster</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #407a40">spoleeba: hush</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">stickster</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #407a40">:-D</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #4d4d93">caillon</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #4d4d93">robots that build robots are still better</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">stickster</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #407a40">All of this is a framework for doing a new kind of marketing, "open marketing" if you will</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">stickster</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #407a40">we have participation from a more-or-less dedicated team member on the Red Hat press team</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">stickster</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #407a40">She is helping us maximize our impact</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">stickster</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #407a40">by tying us into all the important press contacts cultivated at Red Hat.</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">stickster</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #407a40">This week I'm currently doing a pretty startling number of press interviews about Fedora 9</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">spoleeba</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #8c4a4a">stickster, just dont tell people it cures cancer..i want that to be a surprise</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">stickster</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #407a40">And the impressive thing about all this cooperative work in Fedora Marketing is that it makes these interviews really easy!</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">stickster</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #407a40">I think people are going to see an enormous amount of press around Fedora 9</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">stickster</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #407a40">But...</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">stickster</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #407a40">and this is ***VERY IMPORTANT***....</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">stickster</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #407a40">We still need EVERYONE'S help</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">stickster</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #407a40">When you see stories, digg them.</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">stickster</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #407a40">Send them to friends.</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">stickster</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #407a40">Bubble this information up in the online newspool.</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">stickster</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #407a40">We've also sent Live USB devices out to the press</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">stickster</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #407a40">for the first time this release cycle.</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">stickster</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #407a40">So they can actually put their hands on the distro and try it before, during, or after the interview.</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">stickster</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #407a40">Our art team helped Max make a spiffy one-sheet to go with it, and it has plenty of opportunity for follow-up contact.</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">stickster</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #407a40">One thing I would like to see us continually improve is the way we deal with press outlets.</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">stickster</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #407a40">It's easy to respond to news blogs with "You got this wrong"... </td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">spevack</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #42427e">One more question for the Board, whenever you want it, inspired by a comment in -public.</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">stickster</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #407a40">But if we can turn that instead into "I see where you may not know about XYZ... would you like to have an interview with a Fedora leader to talk about it?"</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">stickster</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #407a40">*that* is a big win PR-wise.</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">stickster</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #407a40">EOF</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">stickster</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #407a40">(finally)</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">spevack</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #42427e">stickster: +1 to that</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">spevack</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #42427e">and on a directly related note</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">spevack</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #42427e">a comment in -public was that the link you sent to the tact filter page was really useful</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">spevack</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #42427e">and here's my question.</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">spevack</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #42427e">Would someone on the board be willing to look into how well or poorly we are treating people who come into #fedora with questions, comments, etc.</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">spevack</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #42427e">that's the first point of contact for many.</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">spevack</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #42427e">and I wonder what the culture of #fedora is like these days.</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #488888">dgilmore</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #488888">spevack: sure, i would be willing to</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">stickster</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #407a40">spevack: That's an EXCELLENT question.</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">stickster</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #407a40">dgilmore: Thank you sir</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #4b904b">skvidal</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #4b904b">okay</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">spoleeba</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #8c4a4a">the culture is the same as it ever was</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #4b904b">skvidal</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #4b904b">wit hthat in mind</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #4b904b">skvidal</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #4b904b">here's the first thing</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #4b904b">skvidal</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #4b904b">we stop the registered-only and non-root thing in #fedora</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">stickster</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #407a40">spoleeba: That bad?</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">spoleeba</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #8c4a4a">maybe how the channel works or doesn't is my fault</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">spoleeba</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #8c4a4a">stickster, bad? i dont know if its bad...its consistent</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #4b904b">skvidal</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #4b904b">stickster: it's a harsh place for someone who is new</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">stickster</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #407a40">And that is appalling.</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #4b904b">skvidal</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #4b904b">stickster: do this - boot the livecd</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #4b904b">skvidal</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #4b904b">stickster: login</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">spevack</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #42427e">May 13th would be a good deadline for trying to get some quick fixes made to that room</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #4b904b">skvidal</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #4b904b">stickster: try to go ask a question in #fedora</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">spoleeba</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #8c4a4a">stickster, if its going to change..its going to require an affirmative effort by a group of people committed to upholding a certain level of discourse....and one or two of those people need to be active in channel all the time</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #4b904b">skvidal</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #4b904b">I've done this test in the past</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #4b904b">skvidal</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #4b904b">1. IF you can get past trying to attach to the channel AT ALL</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #4b904b">skvidal</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #4b904b">2. then you normally will be either ignored or abused</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #818144">mdomsch</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #818144">1) we can solve technically</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #4b904b">skvidal</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #4b904b">yes</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #818144">mdomsch</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #818144">2) we have to solve in person</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">stickster</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #407a40">So dgilmore, I think this means you have a mandate for recruiting.</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">spoleeba</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #8c4a4a">stickster, meaning... office hourse</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">stickster</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #407a40">spoleeba: I can do those. Who's with me?</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">notting</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #854685">is there any way to change the behavior of *existing* people in those channels? do we have any carrots/sticks?</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #488888">dgilmore</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #488888">spot: can you please give me op in #fedora</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #4b904b">skvidal</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #4b904b">notting: silence</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">spoleeba</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #8c4a4a">stickster, i can't commit to specific hours...im in there all the time..but i can't commit to a speecific time</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #4d4d93">caillon</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #4d4d93">stickster, yeah, sounds good</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">stickster</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #407a40">spoleeba: Being in there "a lot" should count.</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">stickster</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #407a40">notting: I think to change that behavior we first need to identify the trouble areas/people.</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">spevack</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #42427e">Is there any reason not to remove the "you have to be registered to go into #fedora" requirement?</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">spevack</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #42427e">couldn't we do that today?</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">stickster</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #407a40">spevack: Wasn't skvidal saying that's done?</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #4b904b">skvidal</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #4b904b">no, I wasn't</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #4b904b">skvidal</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #4b904b">I said it should be done</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">stickster</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #407a40">Oh I see.</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">stickster</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #407a40">sorry.</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">spevack</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #42427e">i think he was advocating that it *should* be done</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #4b904b">skvidal</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #4b904b">and the non-root thing, too</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #4b904b">skvidal</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #4b904b">I understand</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #4b904b">skvidal</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #4b904b">irc'ing as root is bad/dangerous/etc</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #4b904b">skvidal</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #4b904b">except that some people get lost</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #4d4d93">caillon</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #4d4d93">remove the restrictions</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #488888">dgilmore</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #488888">skvidal: perhaps send a message if the user is root to warn why its bad if we can</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">spoleeba</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #8c4a4a">stickster, you also need to craft an affirmative manifesto that underlines what people commit to when they sign up for office hours... just re-write the boy scout pledge or something</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #4b904b">skvidal</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #4b904b">and the message from freenode about that is completely obscure</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #488888">dgilmore</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #488888">buit allow them to seek help</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">spevack</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #42427e"></td></tr> <tr><td class="action" colspan="3">* spevack presses the board for a vote on this relatively up or down question :)</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #4b904b">skvidal</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #4b904b">dgilmore: it does - but it gets lost in all the other garbage</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">spoleeba</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #8c4a4a">skvidal, you gonna remove the root bans as well</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">stickster</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #407a40">dgilmore: skvidal: Right, an automessage that *makes sense* to new people.</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">spoleeba</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #8c4a4a">skvidal, ?</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #4d4d93">caillon</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #4d4d93">spevack, kill the restrictions. open it up.</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">notting</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #854685">caillon: +1</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">stickster</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #407a40">caillon: +1</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #4b904b">skvidal</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #4b904b">caillon: +1</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #488888">dgilmore</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #488888">+1</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">stickster</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #407a40">Oh wait, I don't get to vote.</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #818144">mdomsch</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #818144">+1</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #4b904b">skvidal</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #4b904b">stickster: the message gets lost in the garbage from xchat/freenode</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #4d4d93">caillon</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #4d4d93">stickster, well you don't know that. we might deadlock on it. :P</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">stickster</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #407a40">skvidal: true enough -- is it not possible to institute a bot to do this?</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">spevack</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #42427e">so who's the admin of #fedora? let's drop the restrictions right now.</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">stickster</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #407a40">I thin spot is.</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #818144">mdomsch</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #818144">stickster, yes, a bot that sends a message is what you want</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">stickster</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #407a40">*think</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">spoleeba</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #8c4a4a">skvidal, better have the specific instructions for what ops are suppose to do when a bot attacks..</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">stickster</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #407a40">spot: Why lookee who's here!</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #4b904b">skvidal</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #4b904b">spoleeba: ban the bots</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #4d4d93">caillon</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #4d4d93">spoleeba, kickban?</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #818144">mdomsch</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #818144">spot is one; |Jef| is another</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">spevack</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #42427e"></td></tr> <tr><td class="action" colspan="3">* spevack has another meeting at 3:00 PM, so he will leave the Board to wrap up this IRC session itself. Thanks all!</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #4b904b">skvidal</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #4b904b">mdomsch: bots? yah true</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">spoleeba</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #8c4a4a">caillon, like i said... office hours</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #4d4d93">caillon</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #4d4d93">spoleeba, we could also have a bot which does that</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">stickster</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #407a40">mdomsch: Can we voice spot so he can respond here?</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">spoleeba</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #8c4a4a">caillon, cuz that a 30 minute commitment :-></td></tr> <tr><td class="servermsg" colspan="3">--- mdomsch (n=Matt_Dom@cpe-70-124-62-55.austin.res.rr.com) changed mode: +v spot </td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">spoleeba</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #8c4a4a">caillon, you have a bot that can tell a human user from a bot user? without requring registration?</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">stickster</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #407a40">spot: You can respond if needed</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #9b519b">spot</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #9b519b">i will drop the restrictions on #fedora now.</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #4b904b">skvidal</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #4b904b">thanks</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">stickster</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #407a40">spot: Thank you!</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #4d4d93">caillon</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #4d4d93">spoleeba, you can have a bot check for the most annoying of behaviors, like flooding.</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #488888">dgilmore</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #488888">thanks spot</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">spoleeba</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #8c4a4a">caillon, that was sort of the reason why the registation was put in place.. to make it harder for bots to storm in for an hour at a time...if memory serves</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #4d4d93">caillon</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #4d4d93">spoleeba, also bots tend to have certain sigs they post. there's a db of them around somewhere surely</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #4d4d93">caillon</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #4d4d93">it won't be a perfect system but it would be better than nothing.</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #818144">mdomsch</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #818144">some additional volunteer keepers-of-the-peace could be put on the room's access list</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #818144">mdomsch</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #818144">to hand things if/when spot is offline</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">stickster</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #407a40">We should be careful to avoid stepping on people's right to speak their mind</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #4d4d93">caillon</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #4d4d93">also, i'm up at bizarro hours a lot, etc.</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #818144">mdomsch</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #818144">stickster, I was thinking about bot control</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #818144">mdomsch</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #818144">more so than people control</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">stickster</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #407a40">mdomsch: Yes, I was musing out loud</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #4b904b">skvidal</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #4b904b">caillon: know anyone in brno who wants to be an irc op :)</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">stickster</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #407a40">Oh, good call</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #4d4d93">caillon</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #4d4d93">skvidal, they probably all would WANT to ;)</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #4b904b">skvidal</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #4b904b">caillon: let me rephrase - know anyone in brno YOU would want to be an irc op?</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #4d4d93">caillon</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #4d4d93">i can come up with a few names, though. i'll ask them off line to see if they'd want to</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #4b904b">skvidal</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #4b904b">maybe brisbane has some nice folks, too</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #4b904b">skvidal</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #4b904b">or pune</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #4d4d93">caillon</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #4d4d93">yeah</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">stickster</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #407a40">Brilliant</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #4b904b">skvidal</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #4b904b">then we can cover the various tz's by people who would already be on irc</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #4b904b">skvidal</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #4b904b">mether is in pune, right? maybe he knows some folks who can keep an eye pon things</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">spoleeba</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #8c4a4a">caillon, you need to reach out to the current ops on the channel</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #488888">dgilmore</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #488888">spoleeba: some of them i know are no longer involved in fedora</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">spoleeba</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #8c4a4a">caillon, but there needs to be some sort statement concerning the level of commitment being asked for in the new world order</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">spoleeba</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #8c4a4a">dgilmore, i meant the ones who are active in channel</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #818144">mdomsch</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #818144">msg chanserv access #fedora list to see</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">notting</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #854685">should this be a SIG? the fedora-help-new-users SIG?</td></tr> <tr><td class="action" colspan="3">* stickster notes there are no more questions</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">spoleeba</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #8c4a4a">notting, actually that might be best... since its more than just #fedora</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #4b904b">skvidal</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #4b904b"></td></tr> <tr><td class="action" colspan="3">* skvidal would be in favor of a 'join irc' button on the desktop</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #4b904b">skvidal</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #4b904b">and having it go to #fedora-help</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #4b904b">skvidal</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #4b904b">rather than #fedora</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">spoleeba</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #8c4a4a">notting, #fedora is just a tool... how its meant to be used needs to have some context</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #4b904b">skvidal</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #4b904b">and-or rename #fedora to #fedora-social</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">spoleeba</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #8c4a4a">skvidal, ximian had that</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #4b904b">skvidal</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #4b904b">and fwd #fedora to #fedora-help</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #4b904b">skvidal</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #4b904b">spoleeba: yes, I know</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">spoleeba</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #8c4a4a">skvidal, in fact... i started doing irc stuff using xim's button</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #4b904b">skvidal</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #4b904b">so we know who to blame</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #4b904b">skvidal</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #4b904b">how nice</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #818144">mdomsch</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #818144">F10 feature!</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #4b904b">skvidal</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #4b904b"></td></tr> <tr><td class="action" colspan="3">* skvidal sends a poison pin letter to the kind folks at former-ximian</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #818144">mdomsch</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #818144">but will it fit in the XFCE spin? :-)</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #4b904b">skvidal</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #4b904b">I personall blame luis villa</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">spoleeba</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #8c4a4a">skvidal, to be perfectly honest... i think a new channel.. makes for the best fresh start..if we need to fix channel culture</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #818144">mdomsch</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #818144">I don't see a huge culture problem on fedora-list</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #4b904b">skvidal</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #4b904b">mdomsch: just a volume problem?</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #818144">mdomsch</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #818144">I wonder why #fedora would be that much different. Different people?</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #818144">mdomsch</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #818144">it's more acceptable to flame on IRC than email?</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #4b904b">skvidal</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #4b904b">mdomsch: forum + anonymity == asshole?</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #4b904b">skvidal</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #4b904b">mdomsch: lemme find the penny arcard formulation of that</td></tr> <tr><td class="action" colspan="3">* stickster has hard stop at 3:30 but here for duration otherwise</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">stickster</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #407a40">Hm, #fedora-help is owned</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #4b904b">skvidal</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #4b904b"><a href="http://tcritic.com/archives/internet-dickwad-theory-from-penny-arcade/">http://tcritic.com/archives/internet-dickwad-theory-from-penny-arcade/</a></td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #4b904b">skvidal</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #4b904b">there you go</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">spoleeba</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #8c4a4a">mdomsch, its a combination of things</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">spoleeba</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #8c4a4a">mdomsch, irc tends to be more panicked...since its syncronous communication</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #818144">mdomsch</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #818144">stickster, yes, but last used 3 years 36 weeks ago</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #4b904b">skvidal</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #4b904b">you can even get it on a tshirt</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #4b904b">skvidal</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #4b904b"><a href="http://www.pennyarcademerch.com/pat070381.html">http://www.pennyarcademerch.com/pat070381.html</a></td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #488888">dgilmore</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #488888">stickster: by Thomaz</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">spoleeba</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #8c4a4a">mdomsch, lists you have more time to think</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">stickster</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #407a40">mdomsch: True enough</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">stickster</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #407a40">mdomsch: Is there anyway to reclaim orphaned channels?</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">spoleeba</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #8c4a4a">mdomsch, and even review what you write..before sending..if it was written emotionally</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #488888">dgilmore</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #488888">stickster: lets speak with free node staff</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">stickster</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #407a40">I could ask the Freenode staff I'm srue</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">stickster</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #407a40">dgilmore: *jinx</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #818144">mdomsch</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #818144">jeremy?</td></tr> <tr><td class="servermsg" colspan="3">--- mdomsch (n=Matt_Dom@cpe-70-124-62-55.austin.res.rr.com) changed mode: +v jeremy </td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">spoleeba</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #8c4a4a">mdomsch, unless you make a real effort to approach a conversation in irc, in a formal and courtesy manner, informal and emotional communication can dominate and be misinterpreted</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">stickster</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #407a40">spoleeba: Boiling down to: 1. Stop. 2. Think. 3. Type.</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">spoleeba</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #8c4a4a">stickster, harder to do in irc</td></tr> <tr><td class="action" colspan="3">* stickster prepares to get out his "golden rule" sermon, then thinks better of it and puts it away.</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #4b904b">skvidal</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #4b904b">stickster: doesn't work for me</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #4b904b">skvidal</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #4b904b">stickster: I don't mind people being mean to me, it gives me more reason to be mean back</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">spoleeba</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #8c4a4a">stickster, when people want answers to why their system doesnt boot..and if they dont get answers within 1 minute..they leave</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #4b904b">skvidal</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #4b904b">:)</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">stickster</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #407a40">skvidal: You always foil my plans</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #4b904b">skvidal</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #4b904b">stickster: and my stupid dog</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #4b904b">skvidal</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #4b904b">and those meddling kids</td></tr> <tr><td class="action" colspan="3">* stickster puts skvidal on #fedora-help kickban list</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">stickster</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #407a40">But lest I derail the conversation....</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #4b904b">skvidal</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #4b904b">stickster: no one has ever confused me w/a tech support person</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">spoleeba</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #8c4a4a">stickster, #fedora is like a fast food drive-up window for system help</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">stickster</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #407a40">spoleeba: understood.</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">stickster</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #407a40">I've been around it enough to see how it works</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">stickster</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #407a40">But regardless, some of the escalation I see in there from people who should know better is, frankly, sad.</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">stickster</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #407a40">I think one of the cardinal expectations should be, if you're getting tired of answering people's questions politely, LEAVE. It's OK.</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">spoleeba</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #8c4a4a">stickster, which is why i think affirmative office hours would help..put people in the right mental frame...</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">stickster</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #407a40">spoleeba: totally agree.</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">spoleeba</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #8c4a4a">stickster, and it gives us a way to reward effort in the area..by tracking who's signing up and doing well</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">notting</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #854685">fedora help, 5 cents. the doctor is [ in ] </td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #4b904b">skvidal</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #4b904b">notting: yes b/c lucy was excellent support</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">notting</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #854685">skvidal: they come running up to view the video and we pull the codecs away</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #4b904b">skvidal</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #4b904b">:)</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">stickster</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #407a40">notting: correct answers, $1,000,000 3_/-: </td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #4d4d93">caillon</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #4d4d93">yeah. mozilla (used to?) give out tshirts when people started contributing in a meaningful way, which could include just being useful on irc to new users or doing triage work, etc</td></tr> <tr><td class="action" colspan="3">* stickster senses this topic is disintegrating fast.</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #818144">mdomsch</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #818144">Schroeder, don't you think my fedora blue dress is pretty?</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #4b904b">skvidal</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #4b904b">stickster: really? why do you say that</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #4b904b">skvidal</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #4b904b">okay</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #4b904b">skvidal</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #4b904b">I think we're done</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #4b904b">skvidal</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #4b904b">can I get a +1?</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #818144">mdomsch</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #818144">+1</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #488888">dgilmore</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #488888"></td></tr> <tr><td class="action" colspan="3">* dgilmore says wrap it up</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #4d4d93">caillon</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #4d4d93">skvidal, sounds like one of those songs on the radio these days</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #4d4d93">caillon</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #4d4d93"></td></tr> <tr><td class="action" colspan="3">* caillon shakes his +1s in the air like he just don't care</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #4b904b">skvidal</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #4b904b">caillon: you mean it sounds like crap?</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">stickster</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #407a40">♩♪♬♫</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">notting</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #854685">any other questions from the channel?</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #4b904b">skvidal</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #4b904b">okay - I'm going to change locations</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">stickster</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #407a40">notting: They all left long ago. :-)</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #4b904b">skvidal</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #4b904b">back in a few minutes</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">stickster</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #407a40">I'll take care of the log.</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">stickster</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #407a40">Thanks, everyone, and bye</td></tr> <tr><td class="servermsg" colspan="3">--- mdomsch (n=Matt_Dom@cpe-70-124-62-55.austin.res.rr.com) changed topic: Next public Fedora Project Board meeting 3 June 2008, 1800 UTC</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">stickster</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #407a40">Ah, thanks mdomsch!</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #818144">mdomsch</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #818144">np</td></tr> </table>