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< Ambassadors | SteeringCommittee | Meetings | 2008-01-21
HTML Log
| AndreasR | Hallo ;) | |
| fabian_a | hi guys | |
| iWolf | Hello | |
| AndreasR | Hi there | |
| AndreasR | any news from francesco regarding our meeting | |
| iWolf | AndreasR: he sent the reminder yesterday. I would have expected him to be here... :) | |
| AndreasR | me too ;) | |
| AndreasR | ahhh | |
| fugolini | hello | |
| AndreasR | Hi francesco | |
| fugolini | sorry but the rain had a delay | |
| iWolf | fugolini: hello | |
| AndreasR | :) | |
| fugolini | as you know sometime on monday i have problem with train | |
| fugolini | how many people are there? | |
| iWolf | fugolini: no worries. | |
| AndreasR | me is here, too | |
| fugolini | ok, we can have an informal meeting | |
| jmbuser | JohnBabich | |
| iWolf | fabian_a: was here a moment ago. | |
| fabian_a | i'm still here | |
| iWolf | and jmbuser joing a few minutes ago as well | |
| iWolf | s/joing/joined/ | |
| fugolini | perfect we are 5 members | |
| fugolini | so we can start | |
| fabian_a | where is rodrigo? | |
| fugolini | mhh.... | |
| fugolini | i think is working | |
| fugolini | As you know i sent an email where i list open discussion, near to be closed ones and some proposals | |
| fugolini | Have you questions regarding those ones? | |
| fugolini | ok i will list those ones, if someone has something to say please write ! or ? | |
| jmbuser | ! | |
| fugolini | jmbuser: | |
| jmbuser | Are Max, Paul and/or Jack here? | |
| jmbuser | eof | |
| fugolini | i don't know, but we can ping them, if you want | |
| jmbuser | please | |
| fugolini | ping stickster | |
| fugolini | pins spevack_ | |
| stickster | fugolini: pong | |
| fugolini | i don't find jack | |
| jmbuser | ping spevack_ | |
| fugolini | hi stickster, we are holding FAmSCo meeting | |
| stickster | Excellent, I'm logging and listening | |
| fugolini | good | |
| jmbuser | thanks | |
| fugolini | Actually there are those open discussion (tell me if i forgot something): | |
| fugolini | opening FAmSCo Mailing List archives: | |
| iWolf | ! | |
| fugolini | at the end i think we have decided to hide this issue until we will not find a solution to solve critical problem | |
| fugolini | but i think iWolf know better than me his proposal | |
| fugolini | iWolf | |
| iWolf | While I still think it is an idea worth considering again, we can close this for now. If we are in agreement that we try to give people insight into what we are discussing. | |
| iWolf | Maybe via a summary in Fedora News for people interested in what we are up to now. | |
| iWolf | eof | |
| jmbuser | ! | |
| fugolini | jmbuser: | |
| jmbuser | +1 on FWN summary | |
| jmbuser | eof | |
| * kital (n=Joerg_Si@fedora/kital) has joined #fedora-meeting | ||
| fugolini | +1 too | |
| AndreasR | ? | |
| fugolini | i think we have to consider seriously this proposal, | |
| fugolini | AndreasR: | |
| AndreasR | these logs are open, aren't them? | |
| fugolini | yes | |
| AndreasR | isn't it enough | |
| AndreasR | eof | |
| iWolf | ! | |
| fugolini | iWolf: | |
| iWolf | Some folks see us a a group that meets and discusses behind closed doors. The moving of the meeting to the meeting channel and opening the list archives were my ideas to solve that. | |
| iWolf | People seemed against opening the list archives, but I think the community should still have a summary available of our hot items. | |
| AndreasR | ! | |
| iWolf | A summary to Fedora News could solve that and hopefully help ease the community that we aren't plotting evilly on the list. :) | |
| iWolf | eof | |
| fugolini | AndreasR: | |
| AndreasR | I agree... a summary is a good choice.. but the way we find our solutions or our way is difficult enough... I don't want to do everything in public | |
| AndreasR | there are topics which are better discussed in private | |
| AndreasR | sorry for my writing... :) | |
| AndreasR | eof | |
| fugolini | yes, there are some topic that will not publicized | |
| jmbuser | ! | |
| fugolini | jmbuser | |
| jmbuser | There is definitely a need for confidentiality on some matters like personal finances, and there is also a need for transparency. We can have both. | |
| jmbuser | eof | |
| AndreasR | +1 | |
| fabian_a | +1 | |
| AndreasR | ! | |
| fugolini | yes some topics have to be hidden, but i agree completely to make weekyl/monthly report | |
| fugolini | eof | |
| fugolini | AndreasR | |
| AndreasR | one word regarding the opening of the old archiv | |
| AndreasR | I think the stored information has been made in view that it is closed | |
| AndreasR | I think this would be bad if nobady looked at it before someone opens | |
| AndreasR | eof | |
| fugolini | So we have to take a decision. I saw many people agree not to publicize archives | |
| fugolini | but many of us approve the FN report | |
| fugolini | so i think we can start working over this | |
| fugolini | Isn't it? | |
| iWolf | +1 to FN report | |
| fugolini | +1 too | |
| jmbuser | +1 | |
| AndreasR | +1 to FN -1 to opening the old list -1 to make it public | |
| fabian_a | +1 to report, -1 to open the archive | |
| fugolini | So with a strenght majority FAmSCo approve FAmSCo's Report on FN | |
| fugolini | iWolf: can you send in the list a brief plan? | |
| iWolf | yep | |
| fugolini | good | |
| fabian_a | ! | |
| fugolini | fabian_a: | |
| fabian_a | can we go a bit fast please? | |
| fabian_a | eof | |
| fugolini | yes | |
| fugolini | - Jack role in the Ambassadors Project and FAmSCo: i think we have just solved this issue so we can go ahead | |
| jmbuser | +1 | |
| fabian_a | +1 | |
| fugolini | - FAmSCo and new Fedora Local Entities and Leaders (e.g. Invite Local Leader to FAmSCo IRC meetings and M-L discussion too) | |
| iWolf | +1 | |
| iWolf | er, to the Jack role. :) | |
| fugolini | i think we have to wait some time | |
| fugolini | after FOSDEM and after some Local entities meetings | |
| fugolini | we can just start talking about coordination of those ones, | |
| AndreasR | ! | |
| fugolini | maybe with meetings or other tools | |
| fugolini | AndreasR | |
| AndreasR | I am not sure if I understand this right... what do you mean with "we can just starting talking about coordination" | |
| AndreasR | eof | |
| AndreasR | sorry | |
| AndreasR | missed one line | |
| AndreasR | go on | |
| AndreasR | eof | |
| fugolini | about management, how to work to link them each other and guide them | |
| fugolini | eof | |
| fugolini | I think we have to discuss deeper on this topic, maybe in the list (after say something) | |
| jmbuser | ! | |
| fugolini | jmbuser: | |
| jmbuser | Coordinating the various geographic regions, I believe, will be an evolutionary process, and it will take some time to get the setup just right. | |
| jmbuser | We will need to be willing to try different approaches and we may need to modify things as we go along as a group. | |
| jmbuser | eof | |
| fugolini | +++1 | |
| fugolini | So, we can go ahead | |
| fugolini | (i will send an email with some proposal and some plans about it) | |
| fugolini | FAmSCo tasks groups: are those usefull? Have we to change those? | |
| fugolini | I think it's really important to decide about the future of Tasks group | |
| fugolini | in the past they didn't work a lot, so i think we have to decide over the future | |
| AndreasR | ? | |
| fugolini | " Now task groups may not be the best way to do it, but | |
| fugolini | if we disband them, we will need to make sure some of that is still | |
| fugolini | taken care of." | |
| fugolini | AndreasR | |
| AndreasR | what do you mean by task groups..... assain tasks to some of us building a group | |
| AndreasR | eof | |
| fugolini | Task groups are made to speed FAmSCo work, dividing the work in some groups composed by famsco member | |
| fugolini | *formed | |
| AndreasR | +1 | |
| fugolini | i think if we divide the work, first of all, we have to be sure that they will work, without this i think we can continue talking in the list | |
| fugolini | Task Gorups means that someone has to manage daily all the issue realted to a group (e.g. events) | |
| fugolini | eof | |
| fugolini | Now we have to decide | |
| AndreasR | ! | |
| fugolini | i give my opinion i think it's your turn. | |
| fugolini | AndreasR | |
| AndreasR | we are less menpower so I think we will need a primary and a secondary person ... and we need to keep it flexible by a good communication | |
| AndreasR | as you know there are some days with bad trains | |
| AndreasR | eof | |
| fugolini | Someone else? | |
| fugolini | ok, if nobody has other things to say related to this issue we can go ahed (as the last topic we will continue the discussion in the list) | |
| fugolini | I think everyone has an opinion or just a ideas i think it's necessary to spread it to start changing the situation | |
| fugolini | Personally i have finished with the topics | |
| iWolf | ! | |
| fugolini | iWolf: | |
| iWolf | There is an agenda here as well: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors/SteeringCommittee/Agenda | |
| iWolf | eof | |
| fugolini | i think it's not updated | |
| fugolini | ops | |
| fugolini | Thank you fabian :) | |
| fugolini | Personal CLA reminders | |
| fugolini | (i prefer to not discuss merge of mailing list here because it would take a lot of time and we are late) | |
| fugolini | fabian_a: can you introduce the discussion | |
| fugolini | (related to CLA) | |
| fabian_a | there are some people int the ambassador group | |
| fabian_a | who haven't sign the CLA | |
| fabian_a | we can try to bring them in but there are some issues | |
| fabian_a | there are some problems with the CLA | |
| fabian_a | a long time ago I tried to establish translated version of the CLA | |
| fabian_a | "lowering the barriers" is a nice statement but nobody really does anything | |
| fabian_a | the german version of the CLA is there but not integrate in any process | |
| fabian_a | i guess that there are other translated versions of the CLA it should be possible to bring more people in | |
| fabian_a | eof | |
| jmbuser | ! | |
| fugolini | jmbuser: | |
| jmbuser | Let's make it a priority to translate the CLA and put it in the process - this is something I think people want and need. | |
| jmbuser | eof | |
| AndreasR | +1 | |
| fabian_a | +1 | |
| fugolini | jmbuser: right, i think there are also many legal related issue behind the CLA, probably jack or paul can help us | |
| fabian_a | ! | |
| fugolini | for the rest +1 | |
| fugolini | fabian_a | |
| stickster | I think the main issue with translating the CLA is that it would have to be approved by a lawyer fluent in both English and the new language | |
| fabian_a | there are translated version of a lot of licenses (gpl). | |
| stickster | True, and I believe the FSF has probably coordinated that with counsel. | |
| fabian_a | this versions are to help the people to understand the content but the original version will still be the english one | |
| themayor | may i interject? | |
| EvilBob | ! | |
| fabian_a | eof | |
| fugolini | For this time, ok. | |
| fugolini | themayor then EvilBob | |
| themayor | okay | |
| themayor | sorry bob | |
| EvilBob | themayor: you have the floor GA | |
| themayor | first of all, whats the purpose of translating the CLA, if we want to sign up more ambassadors i think thats the wrong approach | |
| themayor | i dont want people just to sign up so they can sign up and then never do anything | |
| themayor | much similar to the problem we are facing now | |
| themayor | we need to have a way to make sure that the poeple who are signing up are not just doing so to get media or whatever sent to them | |
| themayor | that can be accomplished without becoming an ambassador | |
| themayor | thats all for now, just some thoughts | |
| fugolini | no the aim of this proposal is different: we want that people understand the licence and then take a decision (the problem start from the people who don't sign the licence) | |
| fugolini | EvilBob | |
| EvilBob | The CLA "issue" applies to all facets of the Fedora Project not just Ambassadors, It think this problem should be addressed in a larger scope, but can you translate the CLA to English while you are at it... EOF | |
| themayor | bob is 1000% right | |
| fabian_a | ! | |
| f13 | s/translate/rewrite | |
| fugolini | fabian_a: | |
| f13 | we can't do translations of it, we can however work to make it just more simple period. | |
| f13 | (translations are considered legal advice, which Fedora cannot and will not provide) | |
| EvilBob | and should not | |
| AndreasR | ? | |
| themayor | ! | |
| fabian_a | i believe that 90% of all people who have signed the CLA don't understand the whole document because they are not much in to law | |
| * EvilBob goes back to his corner before this orderly meeting becomes a riot... | ||
| fabian_a | now think about the non-english people... | |
| fabian_a | eof | |
| fugolini | AndreasR: | |
| AndreasR | don't go back in the corner | |
| f13 | ! | |
| AndreasR | are we talking about changing... or do we talk about a translation to make it easier to understand | |
| AndreasR | eof | |
| fugolini | f13 | |
| jmbuser | ! | |
| f13 | A couple things. A) the CLA is a legal document to cover RH's and Fedora's ass in general. As such, translations into different languages are going to be difficult to do, as they usually have to be done by legal council in those countries, and then re-reviewed by RH legal. | |
| loupgaroublond | what about non legally binding translations? | |
| f13 | B) we can't make "plain english" or "plain <language>" translations of the CLA either, as that is considered to be providing legal advice, something you'd use your lawyer to do. We can make suggestions on changing the CLA to make it easier to understand, but then you enter the nightmare of having everybody re-sign the CLA. | |
| f13 | loupgaroublond: cannot be provided by the FEdora project. | |
| f13 | loupgaroublond: your lawyer can draft something up for you, but (s)he would probably not want you to share it with anybody else. | |
| f13 | eof. | |
| fugolini | jmbuser: | |
| GeroldKa | ? | |
| loupgaroublond | f13: what about a clause in the CLA permitting simplification, so that it can be changed without resigning it? | |
| themayor | loupgaroublond: too late, it would have had to have been in there already | |
| * EvilBob looks at themayor's ignored ! way up there | ||
| themayor | EvilBob: dont worry, they will get to me | |
| jmbuser | f13: u go 1st | |
| loupgaroublond | it would have been, but this way, if you phrase things correctly, people only need to resign it once, rather than many times | |
| AndreasR | ! | |
| f13 | loupgaroublond: you're going to find it hard to get people to be willing to sign a document that has the right to be changed out from under them at any time. | |
| jmbuser | rather, theMayor | |
| fugolini | Please use ! or ? to enter the discussion | |
| EvilBob | loupgaroublond: this is a structured meeting | |
| fugolini | I want to remember this is FAmSCo meeting | |
| loupgaroublond | oh, sorry | |
| loupgaroublond | any wiki pages with rules? | |
| themayor | okay, can we not get into this now and just sent this to someone, perhaps paul or max, who can take this as a solid question to legal | |
| themayor | and see what comes of it | |
| themayor | i think max would be interested in this any way | |
| iWolf | loupgaroublond: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/IRCHowTo#Protocol | |
| iWolf | themayor: +1 | |
| fugolini | AndreasR: | |
| AndreasR | I didn't got an answere.... | |
| AndreasR | in the first case "f13" is right the CLA is a legal document to cover RH's and Fedora's ass in general........ | |
| AndreasR | so task to max.. | |
| AndreasR | eof | |
| f13 | sorry, f13 == Jesse Keating | |
| fabian_a | ! | |
| fugolini | fabian_a: | |
| fabian_a | i'm talking about unofficial version of the CLA translated in other languages to help possible contributors to become a feeling of the content of the CLA. | |
| fabian_a | the only legal document is the english one and will be it. | |
| AndreasR | +1 | |
| fabian_a | just to make it clear | |
| fabian_a | there was already a discussion about that | |
| fabian_a | a year ago | |
| EvilBob | ! | |
| fabian_a | eof | |
| fugolini | EvilBob: | |
| EvilBob | You can discuss it 100 times a day, it does not matter, with out the approval of red hat legal it can't come form Fedora Project | |
| EvilBob | from | |
| EvilBob | EOF | |
| themayor | ! | |
| fugolini | themayor: | |
| themayor | ask max about, move on. next topic | |
| iWolf | +1 | |
| jmbuser | +1 | |
| fugolini | fabian_a: send an email to Max and the fedora legal guy (see in the wiki) | |
| fugolini | *to the | |
| fugolini | I think it's Tom Callawy | |
| fugolini | it's ok for you? | |
| AndreasR | ! | |
| fugolini | AndreasR: | |
| fabian_a | i can send the stuff again | |
| AndreasR | sorry I think we are talking about different things.... does anybody read fabian_a's post "we aretalking about unofficial version of the CLA translated in other languages to help possible contributors to become a feeling of the content of the CLA. | |
| AndreasR | the only legal document is the english one and will be it. | |
| AndreasR | eof | |
| EvilBob | ! | |
| themayor | eof eof eof eof eof eof | |
| themayor | move on | |
| themayor | next topic | |
| EvilBob | X | |
| AndreasR | next | |
| iWolf | fugolini: anything else for today's meeting? | |
| fugolini | as i say before | |
| fugolini | i prefer not to discuss about the merge | |
| AndreasR | +1 | |
| fugolini | so if fabian_a or the other FAmSCo member haven't any issue, we can asjourn the meeting | |
| jmbuser | +1 | |
| fugolini | +1 | |
| iWolf | +1 | |
| themayor | +1 | |
| AndreasR | :) | |
| fabian_a | +1 | |
| fugolini | so the next meeting probably will be held 4th feb | |
| fugolini | i will send you a mail with all details | |
| AndreasR | thanks... and have a good night@all | |
| fugolini | until this day we will continue working on the list | |
| * EvilBob marks his calendar, make sure he is out of the office that day | ||
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