QA/Logs/20070117

12:02 < wwoods> okay, 5 minute grace period for people to come in
12:02 < wwoods> the agenda is up at http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/QA/Meetings/20070117
12:03 -!- mode/#fedora-qa [+o wwoods]  by ChanServ
12:03 -!- wwoods changed the topic of #fedora-qa to: Fedora QA | Meeting going on right now! Agenda: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/QA/Meetings/20070117 http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/QA
12:03 -!- wwoods changed the topic of #fedora-qa to: Fedora QA | Meeting going on right now! Agenda: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/QA/Meetings/20070117 | http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/QA
12:03 <@wwoods> okay, who's actually here and alive?
12:04 < dmalcolm> hi wwoods
12:04 <@wwoods> dmalcolm: hiya
12:04  * lmacken
12:04 < dmalcolm> BRAINZ!  BRAINZ!
12:04 <@wwoods> so that's one mute and one zombie
12:05 < mether> wwoods: I am here
12:06 < mether> you probably can try pinging everyone
12:07  * wwoods pings a few folks
12:07 <@wwoods> well, anyway, I suspect this will be quick
12:07 <@wwoods> by the way.. are any of you going to FUDCon?
12:08 < lmacken> i'll be there
12:08  * dmalcolm plans to
12:08 -!- thl [n=thl@fedora/thl]  has joined #fedora-qa
12:08 -!- poelcat [n=slick@c-24-22-114-23.hsd1.mn.comcast.net]  has joined #fedora-qa
12:08 <@wwoods> well, cool. I'll see you guys there, at least
12:08 <@wwoods> I'm going to spend a day in the Westford RH office even. Whee!
12:09 <@wwoods> mmcgrath is currently working on getting us a Xen instance to host Fedora QA stuff
12:10 <@wwoods> so poelcat / dmalcolm, we will have somewhere to put tablecloth stuff Real Soon Now. We can also probably use http://hosted.fedoraproject.org/ to host the tests and tools (for fedora)
12:10 <@wwoods> anyway: Meeting officially starts.. now!
12:11 < poelcat> wwoods: good to hear!
12:11 < dmalcolm> it's the test results that are the pain at the moment
12:11 <@wwoods> again, the agenda is at http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/QA/Meetings/20070117 if you haven't seen it already
12:11 -!- BobJensen [n=BobJense@fedora/pdpc.sustaining.BobJensen]  has joined #Fedora-QA
12:11 <@wwoods> dmalcolm: really? well, we should have space for those in the xen instance, but I'm not sure about the upload mechanism
12:11 <@wwoods> but I wanted to talk about a results server thingy later on, so hold that thought for a bit
12:11 < dmalcolm> yeah, it depends how we tie it all together
12:12 <@wwoods> First and foremost is F7 - the freeze is one scant week away, and test1 is due for release 13 days from now
12:12 <@wwoods> (http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/7 has the schedule)
12:13 <@wwoods> I've got a feature-testing matrix at http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/QA/7/FeatureMatrix
12:13 <@wwoods> who here's got edit rights to the wiki?
12:13 < mether> I do
12:13 < mether> why are the tools to test the distributed going to be in hosted.fedoraproject.org instead of in the distribution itself
12:14 < mether> In fact the testing tools should be like the current hardware profiling plan. Automatically installed by default. Trivial to use
12:14 <@wwoods> mether: yes, but they aren't ready yet, and they'll need an upstream place to do development
12:14 <@wwoods> in addition, the tests themselves will never go into the distribution
12:15 -!- c4chris [n=chris@152.33.78.83.cust.bluewin.ch]  has joined #fedora-qa
12:15 <@wwoods> so they'll need a place of their own to live
12:15 < mether> wwoods: hosted is for project hosting. I think we need to use some other place for publishing test results
12:15 <@wwoods> mether: right, that's what the QA xen instance is going to be for
12:15 -!- EvilBob [n=BobJense@fedora/pdpc.sustaining.BobJensen]  has joined #Fedora-QA
12:15 <@wwoods> we should have http://qa.fedoraproject.org/ running off a xen instance Real Soon Now
12:16 < mether> if they are not ready for the distribution, are they ready enough for rawhide or fedora extras-devel
12:16 <@wwoods> that will be the place where we put test results, host the repository of tests, etc.
12:16 < mether> how about putting them in the test releases but not in the general release
12:17 <@wwoods> mether: you mean, having the test tools installed by default for test releases? that's a really good idea!
12:17 <@wwoods> dmalcolm: what's your opinion on the state of the the rhts tools
12:17 < mether> yes. all the test tools installed by default for the test releases
12:17 < mether> If they are rough on the edges but functional. thats ok
12:17 <@wwoods> dmalcolm: can we start pushing for inclusion in extras (and therefore rawhide)?
12:17 < dmalcolm> wwoods: main issue at the moment is they put python scripts in a weird place
12:18 <@wwoods> my last attempt to run a sample test was a bit wonky but dmalcolm has fixed the bug I saw.. we just need somewhere to put fixed packages
12:18 < dmalcolm> wwoods: this was to allow a unified build across Fedora and multiple RHEL releases, without having the final RPM affected by python version
12:18 < Lovechild> sorry I'm late.. meeting was right at dinner time
12:18 < dmalcolm> wwoods: but really I should simply that
12:18 <@wwoods> Lovechild: sorry about that! heh
12:19 < dmalcolm> guess I need someone to host the SRPM during package review as well
12:19 <@wwoods> dmalcolm: yeah, I'd suggest branching
12:19 < dmalcolm> wwoods: OK if I cut back on the test results on my people page?
12:19 <@wwoods> dmalcolm: if you're ready for review right this very moment I can offer my mac.com account
12:19 <@wwoods> dmalcolm: oh, that's fine
12:20 <@wwoods> if you can do that and use your people page to host the SRPMs, that'd be great
12:20 < dmalcolm> they're be lots of 404 not founds if people try to use them, but they're really just a prototype at the moment, not a usable solution, so I don't see that as a problem
12:20 < dmalcolm> OK - will do
12:20 < poelcat> dmalcolm: or temporarily put them on 108... I don't think there are space limits there
12:21 <@wwoods> Anyway, getting back to F7 for a big - Test1 freezes this coming Tuesday (yow!) and the release is 1 week later.
12:22 <@wwoods> If you've got a spare machine for testing, please *please* try installing from (or upgrading to) rawhide once it freezes
12:22 < Lovechild> man time seems to fly.. upgrading to Development as we speak
12:22 <@wwoods> if anyone else has a fedora account but no wiki-editing rights.. just ask, and I'll get you edit permissions
12:22 < Lovechild> risking my main machine.. what is life without adventure
12:23 <@wwoods> until we have something better, we're using the wiki to track test progress
12:23 <@wwoods> so us Official Testers will need to be able to edit the results matrix
12:23 < Lovechild> okay I guess I should get around to creating one of them wiki accounts - set aside my hatred for wiki syntax and all
12:24 <@wwoods> Lovechild: yeah, I hate it too, which is why I keep talking about Something Better - but we'll get to that in a bit
12:24 < mether> Lovechild: you better start being one of the official suckers
12:24  * EvilBob is glad he is not alone in his dislike of wiki
12:24 < Lovechild> maybe the test matrix should contain handy little links to the blocker and target bugs?
12:25 <@wwoods> FUDCon is 3 days after Test1 release, so we'll probably be putting it through its paces there
12:25 < Lovechild> mether: I'm proud to be wwoods' minion.. I prefer not to call it being a sucker
12:25 <@wwoods> heh!
12:25 < mether> Lovechild: politically correct
12:25 < mether> https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=FC7Blocker https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=FC7Target http://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/showdependencytree.cgi?id=FE7Target
12:25 < mether> the tracker links
12:26 < Lovechild> I will be sending off that love day proposal really soon, I've unfortunately been seriously ill all december and now the pledge drive for Nouveau has taken away all my time. Luckily it all seems to have settled down
12:26 <@wwoods> Lovechild: that feature matrix is just for tracking the features that are new in this release - we have another matrix for the general testing
12:26 <@wwoods> basically http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/QA/ReleaseCriteria is what we need to test
12:26 < Lovechild> ack!
12:27 <@wwoods> the matrix is actually http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/QA/TreeTestingTemplate
12:27 < dmalcolm> I'm a little scared of the various spins in F7
12:27 < EvilBob> dmalcolm: How so?
12:27 <@wwoods> so the full matrix for F7 will be the Tree Testing Template (with the blocker/target bugs added to it) plus the F7 Feature Matrix
12:28 <@wwoods> luckily, I think about half of the Feature Matrix will be untestable at T1. heh
12:28 < dmalcolm> isn't there a multiplicative combination between the spins on one axis and the Tree Testing on the other?
12:28 < Lovechild> probably
12:29 <@wwoods> Lovechild: cool about the Love Day thing - can send me email (wwoods@redhat.com) with your fedora account name and some other info, so I can officially designate you as Dude In Charge for that stuff?
12:29 <@wwoods> dmalcolm: not really - the spins are all subsets of the Grand Combined F7
12:29 < Lovechild> wwoods: absolutely, I'll get to after the meeting
12:30 <@wwoods> from what I can tell, none of the spins involve a significant number of non-Core packages
12:30 <@wwoods> which means that testing F7 as a whole should be sufficient for most functional / feature testing
12:30 < dmalcolm> wwoods: ideally, yes, it should just work.  What happens if e.g. you try an upgrade from FC6 to F7 Desktop?
12:30 < Lovechild> has Rex Dieter got a suitable minion to help with the KDE spin testing - that's the one that worries me the most, they seem to be changing a lot of stuff and I have yet to see someone offer to be the QA-KDE sucker
12:31 <@wwoods> Lovechild: not that I've heard.. we should probably ask him to designate a Test Lead for that
12:32 < Lovechild> sounds good to me, but outside of that, we will all be sharing the same package base yet, no difference in anything but the default installed packages so the upgrade should be fine.. no? (aside corner cases which people are sure to hit during the F7 cycle if
we politely request suckers)
12:32 < EvilBob> dmalcolm: interesting Situation, I would assume that anaconda would handle unresolved dependencies as it does now when upgrading
12:33 < EvilBob> dmalcolm: I honestly do not know the answer of "how the magic works"
12:33 <@wwoods> dmalcolm: I think maybe you're assuming the separate spins have separate repos?
12:33 <@wwoods> oh wait, I'm confusing myself
12:34 < Lovechild> dmalcolm: I can try to mobilise some testers to try the FC6 to F7 upgrade at a suitable time.
12:34 < dmalcolm> the main issue to test for I guess is: "does an install work for each spin, given no network access?"
12:34 <@wwoods> yeah: if you're installing from F7 Desktop media, and you have packages that aren't in F7 Desktop, what will happen?
12:34 <@wwoods> IIRC anaconda's behavior will be as EvilBob suggests - ignore and move on
12:34 < Lovechild> fetch from tha intaweb?
12:34 < dmalcolm> I think there are some consistency checks that could be automated, for doing sanity checking on the output of pungi
12:34 < EvilBob> wwoods: that is what I was thinking
12:35 <@wwoods> that's how it handles extras packages with FC5->FC6 upgrades (without extras enabled)
12:35 < Lovechild> if network unavailable, provide polite failure message
12:35 <@wwoods> Right now it silently leaves them un-upgraded, which is kind of dicey (but functional)
12:36 < Lovechild> sounds scary with the Python ABI fun and all
12:36 <@wwoods> yeah, I guess the big problem is that we can't accurately predict that we won't break deps by doing the upgrade
12:37 <@wwoods> but that's always a danger with system upgrades - stuff further from the core is more likely to break
12:37 < EvilBob> I am going to be doing some "Pre-F7" spins this weekend using Pungi I will test this and let you guys know on list if I see any major issues
12:37 <@wwoods> luckily the fix is just a yum update away
12:37 <@wwoods> EvilBob: excellent, that will be much appreciated
12:37 < EvilBob> they would be FC5-FC6 targets spin upgrades
12:38 <@wwoods> so, what should each spin require, in terms of QA?
12:38 < EvilBob> We are merging our FC6 Tree tomorrow
12:38 < Lovechild> so once we do have net connection it's a non issue
12:38 <@wwoods> It'd be nice if there was a Test Lead (i.e. someone responsible for setting up a test matrix and updating it) for each spin.
12:38 <@wwoods> But that begs the question: what's on that matrix?
12:39 <@wwoods> assuming that our full-blown F7 testing hits every feature and package, what are we required to re-test for a given spin?
12:39 <@wwoods> Upgrade is an obvious case
12:40 <@wwoods> Probably we want to do, e.g., Upgrade from Minimal FC6, Upgrade from Default FC6, and Upgrade from Default + KDE + some random extras FC6
12:41 <@wwoods> Do we need to reconfirm the major features of the spin - e.g. for the Desktop spin you want to check that things like Firefox and Thunderbird and OOo work? Just to be sure there's no failed deps or anything?
12:41 <@wwoods> Or does the simple act of installing suffice, since we've already tested firefox for F7
12:41 < Lovechild> to avoid the same fallout as Ubuntu had the last time due to the use of 3rd party repos should we detect those on upgrades and warn the user?
12:42 <@wwoods> what kind of fallout?
12:42 < Lovechild> they saw a shit storm because upgrades failed for users who used that evil "install my nvidia driver and codec program"
12:43 < Lovechild> so for users who have say livna enabled, on upgrade time should we do something to preemptive avoid that kind of mess..
12:44 < poelcat> how many 3rd party repos do you try to test?
12:45 <@wwoods> does that actually cause us problems?
12:45  * thl wonders what kind of mess Lovechild really means in precise
12:45 < Lovechild> it might 99% of our desktop userbase is sure to have it enable
12:45 < BobJensen> upgrades with software from third party repos is nearly untestable at this point
12:45 <@wwoods> right, I mean.. I have livna enabled
12:45 <@wwoods> but my upgrade to FC6 was relatively painless
12:46 < BobJensen> wwoods: same here
12:46 < Lovechild> I can say that currently their development tree causes a rather interesting conflict where totem-xine wants to be installed for some reason
12:46 < thl> livna normally tries to make sure updates work fine; but you of course need to point yum to the new repo, too (but that will happen normally automatically with a updated fedora-release package)
12:46 <@wwoods> As a matter of fact I think it Just Worked, because livna already had their FC6 repo ready
12:46 < thl> Lovechild, that should be fixed; bugzilla.livna.org is you friend if not
12:46 < Lovechild> okay, then I'm considerably less worried
12:47 <@wwoods> And since anaconda's default behavior for unknown packages is to ignore it and move on.. nothing bad really happens, if memory serves
12:47 < Lovechild> okay
12:48 <@wwoods> but! it's a very good idea for us to keep in contact with the livna folks and other 3rd-party-repo maintainers and make sure they are able to test their stuff with the F7 test releases
12:48 <@wwoods> so they'll be ready when the release drops
12:48 < poelcat> wwoods: I think that is good way to put it
12:49 < Lovechild> I'll remember to include it in some regular upgrade tests from FC6 to Development just to catch nastiness
12:49 <@wwoods> I think weird legal issues keep us RH employees from helping actively
12:49 <@wwoods> but yes, it's definitely a good thing to check, to make sure it doesn't blow up
12:49 < Lovechild> not being a RH overlord I'll put that on my tasklist then?
12:50 <@wwoods> doing updates with livna packages installed? oh, we can do that stuff, but I certainly won't discourage you from doing so
12:51 <@wwoods> but, for instance, I really shouldn't send patches to livna to fix their specfiles for F7
12:51 <@wwoods> but we can certainly talk to them and help them fix their own stuff
12:51 < Lovechild> okay sounds good
12:51 <@wwoods> Lovechild, you're probably allowed to help however you like, but I'm no lawyer
12:52 -!- nated [n=nated@r74-195-238-13.stl1cmta01.stwrok.ok.dh.suddenlink.net]  has quit [] 
12:52 <@wwoods> so anyway, it sounds like the testing we want to do for each spin is:
12:52 <@wwoods> 1) upgrades  2) basic functional testing to make sure it does what it's supposed to
12:53 <@wwoods> are we going to want to run all the automated tests for each spin, too?
12:53 -!- sangu [n=sangu@220.117.40.6]  has quit ["Leaving"] 
12:53 < Lovechild> since the CodecBuddy thing is going to be likely to point people at Fluendo, I'll do tests to ensure that their codec packs actually work with F7 - I'm on their beta team already so it's not a huge additional task
12:54 <@wwoods> Lovechild: oh nice, that would be great
12:54 < Lovechild> which they currently don't, I think GStreamer in Devel is fucked
12:54 <@wwoods> once Test1 appears, there will be a big F7Test1TestMatrix page on the wiki, with all the features and required testing for Test1
12:55 < Lovechild> but I'm waiting for the upgrade to the latest gst.. whenever that happens
12:55 <@wwoods> test it up good and report your findings to any one of us with wiki access (me, mether.. poelcat? anyone else?)
12:55 < BobJensen> I have Wiki access
12:55 <@wwoods> BobJensen: cool
12:56 <@wwoods> okay, so me, mether, BobJensen.. there will be a list on the test matrix page that says "report your findings on the fedora-qa mailing list or #fedora-qa"
12:57 <@wwoods> err, "or the following people on #fedora-qa: ..."
12:57 <@wwoods> or maybe I don't need the list, they can just report it here
12:57 <@wwoods> that probably works fine
12:57 < Lovechild> sounds fine
12:57 < dmalcolm> BTW does the fedora-qa list exist yet?
12:57 <@wwoods> dmalcolm: no, actually, so s/fedora-qa/fedora-test-list/ for now
12:57  * BobJensen added this channel to his auto join list today
12:58 <@wwoods> but yes, anyone with wiki rights can add people's reports to the matrix - assuming you believe them to be trustworthy
12:58 <@wwoods> I trust your judgement here, there's really no motivation for people to lie about things working
12:58 < Lovechild> danwalsh taught nme never to trust anyone
12:58 <@wwoods> but it's much better if you know and trust the person, or if you can confirm their results
12:59 <@wwoods> it seems like we almost never see reports where people claim something works when it doesn't
12:59 < Lovechild> yeah I know, I'll see if I can't get some people with hardware I know normally causes issue (they guy who run to me to complain that Fedora sucks basically) to test it
13:00 <@wwoods> oh, also - check the items on the Feature matrix. they each have a "test plan" section, but some of them are empty
13:00 <@wwoods> so if there's something in there that you don't know how to test, bother the responsible people to help you test it
13:00 <@wwoods> if they want to get a feature in, they'd damn well better be able to tell us how to make it work
13:00 <@wwoods> heh
13:01 <@wwoods> and make sure the "Test Plan" section gets updated so others can test
13:02 <@wwoods> dmalcolm: as for automated testing - are you willing to be the Responsible Party for pushing the rhts tools into extras/rawhide?
13:02 <@wwoods> I'm sure we'll all help however we can but I need someone to be the caretaker for it
13:03 <@wwoods> if you don't have the spare cycles that's understandable
13:03 < dmalcolm> wwoods: yes, I'll try to get that done by next week's meeting, though am somewhat doomed with RHEL5 ATM
13:03 < dmalcolm> or at least, in for review
13:03 < dmalcolm> any volunteers to review it?
13:04 <@wwoods> well, I've got one package in Extras.. dunno if that qualifies me for review or what
13:04 <@wwoods> if it simplifies things, I can put it up for review (since I'm already a contributor and I don't know if you are)
13:04 <@wwoods> but I'd need to be able to bug you to help me fix whatever comes up. heh.
13:06 <@wwoods> The two things I want to do at FUDCon are testing Test1 and write a whole mess of RHTS tests for it
13:06 < dmalcolm> fair enough
13:06 <@wwoods> we need the tools available for that.. and, even better, I'd love them to be in Test1 by default
13:06 < poelcat> wwoods: wrt to source control for automated test code... what is the next step (i'm not sure who needs to take the next action)?
13:06 < dmalcolm> talk to jkeating?
13:07 <@wwoods> poelcat: mmcgrath is, right now, setting us up the xen instance. I'm not sure if he's the guy to talk to about hosted.fp.o or if jkeating is
13:07 < lmacken> jkeating is
13:08 <@wwoods> poelcat: do you want to be in charge of talking to him and setting up the initial import for fedora?
13:08 < poelcat> I thought jkeating's focus was expermimental version control (researching a new one)
13:08 < poelcat> we need one for "production" :)
13:08 < poelcat> wwoods: yes, I'll take the action item
13:08 <@wwoods> cool
13:09 <@wwoods> and I guess I'm going to spearhead getting the tools into Extras/rawhide/Test1 (with assistance from dmalcolm)
13:09 <@wwoods> are we going to need to have a fedora-specific branch of the code (that lives at hosted.fp.o), and that's what we'll submit?
13:09 <@wwoods> or can I just submit the tools as they are?
13:10  * wwoods ding - meeting has been 1 hour - will try to finish up quickly
13:10 < lmacken> i've got a quick status update on the updates system as well :)
13:10 <@wwoods> lmacken: oh excellent, that's totally the next thing I want to talk about
13:11 < lmacken> I moved the fedora-updates-system code over to our shiny new hosting setup.  Since this code is going to have multiple instances (Fedora, RH, etc), I figured the base code should be (and already is) distro-independent, so I renamed the project to bodhi.
13:11 < lmacken> https://hosted.fedoraproject.org/projects/bodhi
13:11 < lmacken> (our fedora bodhi instance could still be called fedora-updates-system, or whatever)
13:11 < lmacken> I've found Trac to be pretty awesome so far, and it should make this project a LOT easier to work with (compared to the wiki + ORTS).  I also migrated the code from CVS -> mercurial, which is definitely the least-shitty SCM i've ever used :)
13:11 < lmacken> I have yet to migrate all of the tasks from the UpdatesSystem wiki over to Trac, especially the update Testing/feedback one, which we should probably flesh out the requirements for a a bit right now...
13:13 < lmacken> so we ideally want comment/feedback support for each update, with some sort of rating system? (WFM/b0rked?)
13:13 <@wwoods> yes, I had talked before about wanting to build that stuff into bodhi
13:13 < dmalcolm> whoah
13:13 < lmacken> and make filing bugs trivial (maybe provide the interface in the updates system and have it create bugs automagically?
13:13 < Lovechild> sounds like a really nice addition, as always luke delivers
13:13 < dmalcolm> very nice
13:13 < lmacken> Lovechild: haha
13:14 <@wwoods> lmacken: yeah, that's what I'd love to see
13:14 < Lovechild> insert lame joke about feel the source luke
13:14 <@wwoods> I've actually been messing with the idea of a central test tracker thing
13:15 <@wwoods> but I'm not sure how it should relate to the QA bits in the updates system
13:15 < Lovechild> oh that would be absolutely the coolest thing ever (outside anything the army of Ingos has written)
13:15 < lmacken> wwoods: yeah, we need to do some high level design of this stuff at FUDCon
13:16 <@wwoods> lmacken: definitely - I have to talk to jlaska here about testify for a while longer
13:16 < lmacken> wwoods: i'll add a ticket to the bodhi 1.0 milestone for test feedback and such
13:16 <@wwoods> because, like, the test feedback stuff for the updates tool.. well, that same widget should be available for something that has a list of F7 features
13:16 <@wwoods> instead of updates-testing packages
13:17 < Lovechild> will there be some way of joining your people at FUDcon via IRC.. or hopefully at least some videos or something.. I hate being european and all but I can't help it
13:17 <@wwoods> so you have the same "WFM/b0rken" interface, same "enter your reason" field
13:17 <@wwoods> except the bug is filed against a tracker for that feature instead of a tracker for that package
13:17 < lmacken> wwoods: reusable widgets are dead simple to write in TurboGears :)
13:17 < BobJensen> Lovechild: Many of us will be on IRC I hope
13:18 <@wwoods> and that widget should *also* report to a central thingy that has a big list of packages and features that make up a release
13:18 <@wwoods> and each of those items would have results from the bodhi QA widget, the featuretracker QA widget, beaker's automated results, etc.
13:19 <@wwoods> lmacken: awesome. if you can keep that in mind for the QA-feedback bit, it would be reeeeally helpful
13:19 < lmacken> most definitely...
13:19 <@wwoods> because I'm still a turbogears novice
13:19 < Lovechild> so we'd have a tracker for the features which would point to the relevant bugs blocking that feature.. sounds sane..
13:19 < BobJensen> Lovechild: The Fedora unity project uses a tool called "gobby" from extras for code collaboration
13:20 < lmacken> BobJensen: I maintain gobby for extras :)
13:20 < lmacken> i was thinking about setting up a gobby session for FUDCon hackery.. but we'll see.
13:20 < Lovechild> I'm honestly not a bit fan of gobby but I guess I could learn
13:20 < BobJensen> lmacken: We have a static sobby session running all the time
13:21 < lmacken> Lovechild: yeah it needs work, but there's really nothing better out there in the OSS world (that i know of)
13:21 < poelcat> wwoods: what about an actual conference call (voice/audio) for this meeting ocassionally using some kind voip conferencing system?
13:21 <@wwoods> Lovechild: yeah, something that's a bit easier to deal with than editing a wiki.. something you can log into with your fedora account and check the "yes, this worked for me on ppc" box
13:21 < BobJensen> Lovechild: there is room for improvement
13:21 <@wwoods> poelcat: might not be a bad idea, but I'm not sure how to set it up
13:21 < Lovechild> naturally
13:21 <@wwoods> and yeah, I'll try to stay on IRC during FUDCon as much as is reasonable
13:21 <@wwoods> (I probably won't IRC from the bar.. but you never know)
13:22 < Lovechild> poelcat: maybe once telepathy gets widely used that will be possible
13:22 < BobJensen> lol
13:22 < Lovechild> wwoods: I dare you
13:22 < BobJensen> that is what hand helds are for
13:23 < poelcat> gigE telepathic ethernet
13:23  * lmacken has to run off to class
13:23 < Lovechild> man I hate being european at times like this, I always miss out on all the good Fedora in person fun
13:23 -!- c4chris [n=chris@152.33.78.83.cust.bluewin.ch]  has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 
13:23 <@wwoods> alas, I have no treo/blackberry/etc. I'm sure I won't be the only one with the idea though
13:23 < BobJensen> Lovechild: one of my contributors is coming over form the Netherlands
13:24 < Lovechild> anyways are we about ready to wrap this thing up?
13:24 < poelcat> i've been making 800# calls with Ekiga and a headset
13:24 <@wwoods> Lovechild: I'm hoping they'll eventually send the US-based Fedora Folks across the pond one of these times
13:24 <@wwoods> anyway! lmacken, thanks for the update and let me know when you want to discuss the QA feedback widget further
13:24 < Lovechild> wwoods: sounds like a plan, with any luck I'll be in Brazil at the time visiting friends and promoting the OLPC
13:24 < lmacken> wwoods: will do
13:24 <@wwoods> Lovechild: ha
13:24 -!- c4chris [n=chris@30.6.78.83.cust.bluewin.ch]  has joined #fedora-qa
13:25  * lmacken &
13:25 < Lovechild> are we about ready to wrap up?
13:25 <@wwoods> poelcat: interesting, I've never messed with ekiga. Might have to check it out, or see if we can get a RH conference set up for people to dial into
13:25 < Lovechild> or shall I consider that the state now that we've gone way off topic
13:25 < BobJensen> See you all at FUDCon or here another day
13:25 <@wwoods> but yeah, I think we're about done here.
13:26 <@wwoods> I'm postponing Bugzilla RPG work until after F7 is released, I think
13:26 < Lovechild> have fun at FUDCon you lucky bastards.. buy Jesse a drink for me
13:26 <@wwoods> Oh - another meeting next week?
13:27 <@wwoods> Test1 freeze is tuesday, we could meet wed. or thur. to discuss status
13:27 < Lovechild> if needed, with FUDcon, the freeze and things I might think a meeting would be good
13:27 < BobJensen> Lovechild: I agree
13:27 <@wwoods> Test1 freeze is 6 days, Release is a week after that, FUDCon is 3 days after that
13:28 < Lovechild> maybe Thursday would be good, that's 2 days into the freeze, that should give us a fair idea of how test1 is going to look
13:28 <@wwoods> sounds fine. Is this time good?
13:28  * wwoods willing to shift to accomodate
13:29 < Lovechild> an hour earlier or 2 hours later  would be great for me otherwise I might be late like this time
13:29 <@wwoods> okay then: 1600UTC, Thursday January 25
13:29 <@wwoods> going once.. going twice
13:29 < BobJensen> I do not have my schedule handy to check on other meetings
13:29 < Lovechild> deal
13:30 < Lovechild> otherwise just schedule something and I'll make time, I'm not that important anyways
13:30 < BobJensen> But I will deal with what ever is the rule
13:30 -!- bpepple [n=bpepple@adsl-75-42-218-118.dsl.wotnoh.sbcglobal.net]  has left #fedora-qa ["Ex-Chat"] 
13:30 <@wwoods> BobJensen: yeah, we'll probably be hanging around in here anyway
13:30 <@wwoods> testin' away
13:31 < Lovechild> sounds good to me
13:31 <@wwoods> so if it does conflict we'll fill you in later
13:31 <@wwoods> okay then! meeting officially adjourned
13:31 <@wwoods> thanks for your time and all the help, guys
13:31 < Lovechild> sexy time.. I can just make it to the store to more coke!
13:31 <@wwoods> the log will be on the wiki ASAP
13:32 -!- mharris [n=mharris@fedora/mharris]  has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 
13:32 <@wwoods> and soon.. we'll have a site for hosting that stuff.. so I can do html-colored logs! woo readability!