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<inode0> mizmo: firstboot should drop or make entirely optional the create user step ... nothing else annoys me about it at all

inode0 insomnia

<mizmo> inode0: if it was optional what would happen?

you only log in as root?

<inode0> yes, when you can create users as you actually want them created with all the options available <mizmo> inode0: help me understand a bit more context around this? <mizmo> inode0: is this for a single user system or a multiuser system?

inode0: desktop or server?

<rigeld2> mizmo: yes. I'm in agreement with inode0 <inode0> mizmo: simple example but by no means the only one ... you might want the user to have a common uid with other systems <mizmo> inode0: is it that the options provided in firstboot aren't enough when you're creating your single user? (they raen't for me. I can't type my accent marks in my name in firstboot)

ah okay
but for the basic desktop user ...
they don't tend to care about uids
but we don't want them running as root

<inode0> mizmo: doesn't matter what kind of system it is, inode0 wants the same uid <mizmo> you should be able to skip firstboot all together though <rigeld2> mizmo: maybe ask if they want to create a user? I'm not a UI person, so I don't know if thats verboten <mizmo> well i've been thinking a lot about the case

where i've been handing out these usb keys to kids, 5th graders and 7th graders

<inode0> I can install by ks and skip the whole affair, but often you build a one off desktop <mizmo> i don't want this 7th grader to run as root, no way.

i want this 7th grader to create a user.... and they definitely don't care about their uid or know what that is.

<inode0> they aren't forced to skip user creation, you can just allow it <mizmo> if i ask the 7th grader if they want to create a user or not, they won't know. <mizmo> yeh


<inode0> it used to be that way <mizmo> i guess it could be an extra button, 'skip user creation'

but, it seems a pretty rare case no?

<inode0> it would just pop a nag box <mizmo> how often do you install one-off boxes like that? <inode0> well, rare I can't say, it is bad for me 100% of the time :) <mizmo> but is it bad for < 1% of our users? <rigeld2> mizmo: fedora or rhel? :p rhel I'd always want to skip it <mizmo> having an extra option i'm guessing is bad for 90%+ of our users <rigeld2> fedora it doesn't matter to me personally <mizmo> oh im definitely talking fedora only <inode0> I don't understand why it matters to them <mizmo> cases like this i think are important to address in rhel <mizmo> inode0: designing interfaces is a game of trying to only present information that 90% of users will use

i know it seems simple to 'just add one more button' but look at
that page is horrifyingly bad.
it is the victim of the 'just add one more button' philosophy
you can't design good interfaces that way :(

<inode0> there is no need for more information, if I just keep saying ok without creating a dang user let me proceed <mizmo> it does actually hurt to have an additional button or control if 90%+ of users will never use that control

so if you leave the fields empty
it should let you move forward
maybe pop up a 'don't do this unless you know what you're doing box

<inode0> yes, not it tells me I have to create one and won't let me past until I do


<mizmo> is that the way you were saying it used to work? it just nagged you and let you through?

<inode0> yeah, it used to pop the same one box it does now but it allowed me to go ahead if I wanted to

maybe it bugs me because it was an earlier "improvement" that made life a little harder (or a little more like Ubuntu)
that was one thing that really annoyed me about Ubuntu before it started bugging me here


just to clean up yesterday conversation a little more ... you can read when convenient when building a desktop with an interactive install the very first thing always done post-boot is login to a console as root to do final configurations and security settings so one logs in as root first anyway, creating or modifying users is always part of that process setting password expiration policies and whatnot so I see big benefit to Fedora casual users to just create their account at firstboot and go with it but not any benefit to enterprise users and without adding a lot more stuff which would be bad an opt out seems the only reasonable compromise (assuming it is reasonable) most settings can be easily modified after the account is created but uid/gid can't since user owned files are scattered around it isn't that big of a deal so don't put it high on your priority list now I just create a bogus user, userdel it after logging in as root and create the one (or more) that I need its just one of the little irritations that I know affect more people than me but admit it is likely a small percentage of users/use cases EOF